560 SEL vs. 300 SE engine power
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From: Sweden
300 SE -90
560 SEL vs. 300 SE engine power
Hi all,
This seems to be a very nice forum.
I have a 300 SE (-91) imported from Germany, bought it in 2002. I love it. However, I wonder how a 560 SEL feels like when it comes to engine power, having 300 horse powers instead of the 188 of the 300 SE should mean quite a difference, right? Anyone here who has driving experience of both these models?
Niclas
(Sweden)
This seems to be a very nice forum.
I have a 300 SE (-91) imported from Germany, bought it in 2002. I love it. However, I wonder how a 560 SEL feels like when it comes to engine power, having 300 horse powers instead of the 188 of the 300 SE should mean quite a difference, right? Anyone here who has driving experience of both these models?
Niclas
(Sweden)
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From: Adelaide southern suburbs
W126 '89 560SEC, '86 560SEL, Porsche 928S, Porsche 928, Audi A8L
Hi Niclas,
I have not driven a 300 but I have a 560SEL and it is a surprisingly agile car. The long wheelbase and heaps of options that Mercedes put in the 560SEL makes it big and heavy, yet it is superb to drive around town and on open roads. I have cruised mine at 200kph and it's so smooth and still wants to go more. I also drive a 5.4 litre V8 Porsche, so I'm used to getting a result when the pedal is pressed but the 560 is a very different car but I prefer driving it.
Mike
[Australia]
I have not driven a 300 but I have a 560SEL and it is a surprisingly agile car. The long wheelbase and heaps of options that Mercedes put in the 560SEL makes it big and heavy, yet it is superb to drive around town and on open roads. I have cruised mine at 200kph and it's so smooth and still wants to go more. I also drive a 5.4 litre V8 Porsche, so I'm used to getting a result when the pedal is pressed but the 560 is a very different car but I prefer driving it.
Mike
[Australia]
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From: The Ferrari F1 Factory
F248 F1
you are not missing much if you compare it to a 560sel US spec. I believe they have about 230ish hp? But being a v8 you get the torque. I have a Euro 500SE, which i can comment and say its superb! 
Keep the euro alive
whoops sorry mate i see your located in sweeden, you should test drive a 560sel so you can feel the diffs! These cars come alive after 80 mph ! and they hall a$$
Keep the euro alivewhoops sorry mate i see your located in sweeden, you should test drive a 560sel so you can feel the diffs! These cars come alive after 80 mph ! and they hall a$$
Thread Starter
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From: Sweden
300 SE -90
Thanks Mike and EG! My 300 SE is also very agile on the highways, so no real need of improvements there, but it feels a bit tired when accelerating in slow speeds so wondering if the 560 SEL can do better in those cases. Test driving a 560 SEL is of course what I should do, hopefully I get the chance one day.
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From: New Zealand
1993 300SEL/S320
Originally Posted by egutie6970
you are not missing much if you compare it to a 560sel US spec. I believe they have about 230ish hp? But being a v8 you get the torque. I have a Euro 500SE, which i can comment and say its superb! Keep the euro alive
whoops sorry mate i see your located in sweeden, you should test drive a 560sel so you can feel the diffs! These cars come alive after 80 mph ! and they hall a$$
Keep the euro alivewhoops sorry mate i see your located in sweeden, you should test drive a 560sel so you can feel the diffs! These cars come alive after 80 mph ! and they hall a$$
Thread Starter
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From: Sweden
300 SE -90
Originally Posted by egutie6970
Is your kick-down switch working ? Maybe thats the reason...
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From: The Ferrari F1 Factory
F248 F1
Originally Posted by NZ_Benz
230HP for a 560! Thats sweet F all, I know I drive a 320 so it is a different car but I got told that may car produced about 200 HP, You will have a hell of a lot more torgue but for a 560 I would expect much more HP, was it only the US spec cars that got less HP?
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From: The Ferrari F1 Factory
F248 F1
Originally Posted by njetski
It works. I'm thinking more of a somewhat gentle use of the gas pedal but still getting faster acceleration.
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From: New Zealand
1993 300SEL/S320
Originally Posted by egutie6970
The Euro version gets 300bhp and over 300 tq i forgot the exact figures...but its bloody fast with a first gear start !
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From: Wellington NZ
560SEL
560SEL vrs 300
Hi there,
I've driven both and currently own a 560SEL. They're quite different cars. The 300 feels a lot lighter and more nimble, particularly around town and the power transfer is more immediate in stop-start driving. The 560 is a bit of a sleeping giant unless you really plant your foot, however in open-road conditions it has really long legs and will pass just about anything effortlessly (except a gas station) with fantastic power past 100kmh.
I have previously owned a 560SEC and 450SEL. The 560SEC was significantly quicker than both the 450 and 560SEL and only fatherhood has prevented me from getting another one. The 450 was a great old bus but the NZ models are all a bit worn out now, which is why I went for the '89 560SEL, which is still tight and tidy with only 160kms on it. A bargain too for NZ$3,500.
My 560SEL is a Hong Kong import and I've only had her a couple of weeks. I'm still trying to work out whether the HK units were US or Euro spec. If what I have is the US spec that would explain the performace difference between my SEL and my old SEC, which is a bigger difference than I had expected given their weight isn't all that different. It is RHD so I'm assuming it is Euro spec, but if anyone out there knows how to check I would be greatful to find out.
Meanwhile, I'm loving driving the old girl and salute all you out there with the good sense and taste to drive MB.
I've driven both and currently own a 560SEL. They're quite different cars. The 300 feels a lot lighter and more nimble, particularly around town and the power transfer is more immediate in stop-start driving. The 560 is a bit of a sleeping giant unless you really plant your foot, however in open-road conditions it has really long legs and will pass just about anything effortlessly (except a gas station) with fantastic power past 100kmh.
I have previously owned a 560SEC and 450SEL. The 560SEC was significantly quicker than both the 450 and 560SEL and only fatherhood has prevented me from getting another one. The 450 was a great old bus but the NZ models are all a bit worn out now, which is why I went for the '89 560SEL, which is still tight and tidy with only 160kms on it. A bargain too for NZ$3,500.
My 560SEL is a Hong Kong import and I've only had her a couple of weeks. I'm still trying to work out whether the HK units were US or Euro spec. If what I have is the US spec that would explain the performace difference between my SEL and my old SEC, which is a bigger difference than I had expected given their weight isn't all that different. It is RHD so I'm assuming it is Euro spec, but if anyone out there knows how to check I would be greatful to find out.
Meanwhile, I'm loving driving the old girl and salute all you out there with the good sense and taste to drive MB.
Last edited by NZ MB V8 fan; Nov 3, 2006 at 09:45 PM.
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From: NY/NJ
2012 W212 E350 Bluetec
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The 450SEL is a W116 model. The earlier S-Class body.
There is a large difference in feel between a 300SE and a 560SEL. A 560 has a more usable torque band, and is significantly quicker off the line than a 300. The 300, even with its 3.46:1 differential ratio, is hampered by its second gear start and poor, POOR torque at low rpm (only starts to shine after 4K). They're really a highway cruiser.
Keep in mind, a 560 guzzles fuel. The 420SEL may have a bit less power, but it is also considerably more efficient (similar to the 300SE). I would go for a 420 as it is the best compromise if you do a lot of mixed driving.
There is a large difference in feel between a 300SE and a 560SEL. A 560 has a more usable torque band, and is significantly quicker off the line than a 300. The 300, even with its 3.46:1 differential ratio, is hampered by its second gear start and poor, POOR torque at low rpm (only starts to shine after 4K). They're really a highway cruiser.
Keep in mind, a 560 guzzles fuel. The 420SEL may have a bit less power, but it is also considerably more efficient (similar to the 300SE). I would go for a 420 as it is the best compromise if you do a lot of mixed driving.
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From: San Diego, California
2004 W211 (E320)
My first post. I need another 126
My '85 380SE has, I am barely able to admit, more problems than worth. I've driven it over 200K miles, for a total of 300.xK miles. (The odometer broke just a few thousand miles from my 500K KM badge.) Poor car has beach rot (bubbles of rust in all the worst places) and a long list of aggravations (no HVAC fan unless you jiggle the ignition key, which trained me for the latest trick, daily and abrupt engine shutdown, which has been very difficult to diagnose since it starts right up again).
Coming to the point, I need moral support in turning away from some very attractive W140's and getting the right 126. My trusted mechanic has a 560SEL, 1991, which I am very close to buying. The mileage issue worries me. The expense of all the things a 140 has to break worries me more.
The federal gas mileage for the the 300, 420, and 560 averages 18, 17, and 15 mpg respectively. (http://www.fueleconomy.gov/) Why all the references to 560 being excessive gas guzzlers? Given the discount that reputation has earned, even at San Diego's gas prices (typically among highest in the country), the difference seems minor.
Going over the mountains to the desert, I'd like the luxury of being able to go uphill with the AC on. (We're talking 115ºF, 4,000 elevation, and a delightfully bent up road.) Torque and power aside, does the 560 have a distinct advantage in engine cooling and load-bearing?
Anything I should look out for on a '91 560SEL? I drive about 50 miles a day, freeway. Would a 300 really be better? In either case, save me from the allure of the W140.
My '85 380SE has, I am barely able to admit, more problems than worth. I've driven it over 200K miles, for a total of 300.xK miles. (The odometer broke just a few thousand miles from my 500K KM badge.) Poor car has beach rot (bubbles of rust in all the worst places) and a long list of aggravations (no HVAC fan unless you jiggle the ignition key, which trained me for the latest trick, daily and abrupt engine shutdown, which has been very difficult to diagnose since it starts right up again).
Coming to the point, I need moral support in turning away from some very attractive W140's and getting the right 126. My trusted mechanic has a 560SEL, 1991, which I am very close to buying. The mileage issue worries me. The expense of all the things a 140 has to break worries me more.
The federal gas mileage for the the 300, 420, and 560 averages 18, 17, and 15 mpg respectively. (http://www.fueleconomy.gov/) Why all the references to 560 being excessive gas guzzlers? Given the discount that reputation has earned, even at San Diego's gas prices (typically among highest in the country), the difference seems minor.
Going over the mountains to the desert, I'd like the luxury of being able to go uphill with the AC on. (We're talking 115ºF, 4,000 elevation, and a delightfully bent up road.) Torque and power aside, does the 560 have a distinct advantage in engine cooling and load-bearing?
Anything I should look out for on a '91 560SEL? I drive about 50 miles a day, freeway. Would a 300 really be better? In either case, save me from the allure of the W140.
Last edited by rheftmann; Nov 14, 2006 at 08:56 PM.
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2001 VW Jetta GLX VR6
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From: Orlando
87 560SEL, 95 600SL, 95/98 CL600
"I need moral support in turning away from some very attractive W140's and getting th
"I need moral support in turning away from some very attractive W140's and getting the right 126"
I have an 87 560SEL and two 140 S600s. Love all of them but the 126 will be less trouble prone and cost less to service.
BTW: any ideas on how to get 300bhp out of the US model?
I have an 87 560SEL and two 140 S600s. Love all of them but the 126 will be less trouble prone and cost less to service.
BTW: any ideas on how to get 300bhp out of the US model?
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From: Washington Metropolitian Area
86' 420SEL & 560SEL
Reply
The US spec 300SE, 420 SEL and 560SEL have 188hp, 201hp and 238hp respectively. The Euro Spec 420 and 560 have 230hp and 300hp respectively. However, the euro 560SEL @300hp is a beast of a car. Recently, after a roadtest comparison, Mercedes Enthusiast stated that this car had no problem in keeping pace and even in many cases surpasing the 07' S600 because of the S600's annoying ESP function.
However, the choice is yours. If you want a lighter, more agile feeling with greater gas mileage, then opt. for the 300SE. Its engine is highly reliable. Hence, my father owns a 87' 260E which is the 2.6 liter variant of the one in the 300SE with 700K+ miles and it drives like new. THIS IS NO JOKE!.
If you want the power of the V8 without the sometimes faulty hydropneumatic rear suspension, opt for the 420SEL. I personally own one and its reliable and surprisingly fast. In fact, I was traveling down the NJ Turnpike when a 04-05 SL500 went past. So then, I tried to follow him down the pike to keep alert. However, after some time, he decided to floor it. The result? He gained two car lengths before I started to reel him in and pass him to my and his complete shock at 130+mph. Then afterwards, we ran out of room.
Interestingly, this car's engine has a strong mid-high range. Hence, at this range there not much difference between the 420 and 560. However, the biggest difference is at the low range 0-60 and 45-75. Also, in the 560 you have the beautiful burl-walnut trim and power rear seat. Today, you have to pay 400k+ for a Maybach 57 or 62 to get this option. But again, if you want the outright stealth model, the Euro spec 560SEL is the only choice short of the 6.0 liter 400-450hp AMG W(126) variant!
However, the choice is yours. If you want a lighter, more agile feeling with greater gas mileage, then opt. for the 300SE. Its engine is highly reliable. Hence, my father owns a 87' 260E which is the 2.6 liter variant of the one in the 300SE with 700K+ miles and it drives like new. THIS IS NO JOKE!.
If you want the power of the V8 without the sometimes faulty hydropneumatic rear suspension, opt for the 420SEL. I personally own one and its reliable and surprisingly fast. In fact, I was traveling down the NJ Turnpike when a 04-05 SL500 went past. So then, I tried to follow him down the pike to keep alert. However, after some time, he decided to floor it. The result? He gained two car lengths before I started to reel him in and pass him to my and his complete shock at 130+mph. Then afterwards, we ran out of room.
Interestingly, this car's engine has a strong mid-high range. Hence, at this range there not much difference between the 420 and 560. However, the biggest difference is at the low range 0-60 and 45-75. Also, in the 560 you have the beautiful burl-walnut trim and power rear seat. Today, you have to pay 400k+ for a Maybach 57 or 62 to get this option. But again, if you want the outright stealth model, the Euro spec 560SEL is the only choice short of the 6.0 liter 400-450hp AMG W(126) variant!
Last edited by chp1884; Dec 13, 2006 at 09:34 PM. Reason: Grammatical change
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From: Orlando
87 560SEL, 95 600SL, 95/98 CL600
what options are available to get 300+ hp out of the US model?
Would love to get up to 300.
Car is very solid, agile, fast.
of course in the coupe version it must be a bit faster with the same engine.
were these faster in the US than the SEL?
Would love to get up to 300.
Car is very solid, agile, fast.
of course in the coupe version it must be a bit faster with the same engine.
were these faster in the US than the SEL?
ON SUSPENSION
Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 124
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From: Atlanta, GA
Quite a few:)
Nest, you'll need cams... You can go to Renntech for about 3K or me for about 1500.
You'll also want a bump in compression, this will involve tearing the engine down and using 10-1 pistons. I use JE pistons and am looking to Carillo for rods to lighten things up.
A mild port on the heads is never a bad idea as well..although these heads do flow quite well from the factory.
You'll need to fiddle w/ your mixture once done so it's best to have a 5 wire 02 sensor around along w/ a stand alone meter..nothing kills power like running overly lean or rich!
The above with some other minors will have you over 300HP.
I'm building an engine like this right now (minus the rods) along w/ a transmission that can take a beating, should run about 14K installed (or there about).
SEC is fractionally faster..it's a couple hundred lbs lighter.
Jonathan
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420 SEL
300SE vs 560SEL
I have owned a 300SE and driven a 560SEL both US models. 560SEL definately has more get up n go. I currently own a 420SEL which has more giddy up, though I suspect in realtime measurement it's not that significant a different between them.
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From: Vancouver, Republic of Canuckstan
81 300sd, 83 300dT, F350, 250 diesel & 16 ft car trailer
I had a 90 300se w126 and drove friend's 87 560sel, the 560 was pretty fast, lots of torque.
Buy the 560 only if u have deep pocket for gas or buddy of Hugo Chavez , Sultan of Brunei.
The best i had in my 300se was about 20 MPG ( imperial gallon)
Buy the 560 only if u have deep pocket for gas or buddy of Hugo Chavez , Sultan of Brunei.
The best i had in my 300se was about 20 MPG ( imperial gallon)
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From: Essen / Germany
W126 300SE + W210 E320
#23
Hi,
I own a 300SE from the year 87. I also had the possibilty to drive several time a 560SEL from close friend.
The 300SE as pwoer enough but of course it is not a sport car, the 560SEL (if you want) can become a devil.
I my opinion the 300SE is the better solution when you like to cruise and your drive more city, landscape and less highway (on highway a speed of 160-180 with speed control is ideal for the 300SE).
In case you are looking for a car for the highway, defently the 560SEL is the better choice.
Greetings from Germany,
Michael Kahle
I own a 300SE from the year 87. I also had the possibilty to drive several time a 560SEL from close friend.
The 300SE as pwoer enough but of course it is not a sport car, the 560SEL (if you want) can become a devil.
I my opinion the 300SE is the better solution when you like to cruise and your drive more city, landscape and less highway (on highway a speed of 160-180 with speed control is ideal for the 300SE).
In case you are looking for a car for the highway, defently the 560SEL is the better choice.
Greetings from Germany,
Michael Kahle
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w126 300SE , w115 240D 3.0
Hi! I'm new,my name's Andreas I'm 26and I'm from Italy (at the moment I live in spain, with my w126 300SE)
I've found this topic on google because my 300SE automatic has a too short 4th speed ratio.. as all 300SE's .. so I would like to put a 560 LSD ! What do you think about?
My 300se is equipped with ASD system , I think I must dismantle all if I want to put the v8's differential! is correct?
I have another question... I've found in a scrapyard a crashed euro 300bhp 560SEC, my dream is..
putting the big v8 engine and gearbox on my L6 whale... so anyone knows if FITS?
a 560SE without rear hydraulic suspensions and with LSD would be amazing...
here some pics of the baby, she's eurospecs 188bhp no catalyst ,model year 1988,original paint bison braun, never repainted
I've found this topic on google because my 300SE automatic has a too short 4th speed ratio.. as all 300SE's .. so I would like to put a 560 LSD ! What do you think about?
My 300se is equipped with ASD system , I think I must dismantle all if I want to put the v8's differential! is correct?
I have another question... I've found in a scrapyard a crashed euro 300bhp 560SEC, my dream is..
putting the big v8 engine and gearbox on my L6 whale... so anyone knows if FITS?
a 560SE without rear hydraulic suspensions and with LSD would be amazing...
here some pics of the baby, she's eurospecs 188bhp no catalyst ,model year 1988,original paint bison braun, never repainted
