GTR John

I have a 1986 560 SEC AMG Euro, but with the 5.6L. I know they are rated at 300 Horsepower, but is that DIN or SAE horsepower???

Also, what is the difference between the 5.6L and the AMG Engine that was in the 560 AMG?

Please and Thank you.

EuroCoupe

If I'm not mistaken, DIN horsepower is within a few decimals of HP. Not sure about your SAE question. As far as the 5.6 AMG motor, there are 2 versions. The first has more aggressive cams/lifters/springs and headers is normally coupled with a large bore exhaust, HP is rated at around 320. The second is the 4valve, DOHC heads which is rated at 360 HP. The cylinders on the 5.6 could also be bored to 100mm from 96.5 to achieve a 6.0L capacity to provide 331 HP. Then the big dog, 6.0 w/DOHC heads, rated at a "conservative" 375HP, 407LB/FT.

MB AMG

I'd love to drive an AMG 5.6L or 6.0L version of the 560SEC. Just wondering why the power was so low in the North American version? I find the 560SEC's power adequate for all my needs but I wasn't very impressed with the numbers. They actually had to de-tune it that much for emissions!?

GTR John

So, mine is the untuned 5.6 Euro motor. 300HP. But, is that DIN hp?? I know the Germans test the engines by DIN meaning with everything on the engine including the power steering pump, oil pump, and etc etc.

EuroCoupe

The 238hp rating is very conservative and an effort to keep insurance costs down at the time. I don't know anybody who has dyno'd a stock U.S. 560 but I've always heard that its closer to 260-270 hp. The Euro is faster and definitely feels faster but not 65hp faster.

BlownV8

Formula: 1.0 SAE HP = 1.01411685309470545 DIN

I think the SEC in Euro trim with cats was rated at 278 but without cats and airpump it was rated at 300 DIN.

bigchingan

from what I had understood, the american 560 SEC non amg was rated @ 238 and it was done not just for emissions purposes, but also in an effort to reduce insurance rates.

bigchingan

oh, forgot to mention that I believe most people who have driven the car would say that that figure is VASTLY conservative, and the actually power is probably closer to 280-300

BlownV8

"power is probably closer to 280-300"

Nope, not even close on the US models. The 238 hp rating is pretty much on the money. These cars ususally dyno at around 190 RWHP which translates to 238 crank hp if you figure 20% drive losses.

DslBnz

Mercedes increased the performance of their V8 models without ever recording it in their owner's manual(it still said 238). After september '87, all catalyst equipped versions had 270 somewhat hp. So an '86 560 SHOULD have only 190 RWHP on the dyno. But not the later ones.

BlownV8

"After september '87, all catalyst equipped versions had 270 somewhat hp."

Where did you get this information? We are talking about the US models hp not the Euro.

Here is some more information:

http://varshney.net/SEC/dyno_day/dyno_results.htm

They dynoed a 1990 560 SEC and it produced 200 RWHP. That's still well short of the 270 crank hp you propose but it's the highest dynojet reading I've seen from a stock US 560 SEC and still well within the claim for the factory hp rating.

EuroCoupe

Wow, first time I've seen a dyno with a stock U.S. 560. I can't wait to rub this in my father-in-laws face. I had a Euro 560 and he has a U.S. 560 and he claimed there was not much difference at all and insists there's no way 238 hp is correct. I will be dynoing my 6.0 soon so I'll post numbers for that too.

DslBnz

I have driven MANY M116/M117 V8's before. Each one is different. But the '88 + models seem to be exceptionally quick. The real way you can find out is taking a note of the environment, and racing each other.

Maybe the one's I've driven have just been broken in really well?

The 560SL I've got will rip your head off if you prod it too much.:p

BlownV8

"Maybe the one's I've driven have just been broken in really well?"

I don't know but the engine and internals are the same from 1986 to 1991 on the US 5.6L engines. The power is the same on all of them but the earlier ones may have had more excessive wear than the later ones making them a little slower? I would hardly call the power of a stock US 560 SEL as rip your head off fast. Put on a supercharger, different exhaust/headers, and then it will have some power but without those mods the US cars are really anemic compared to the performance of most new cars. I know the torque makes it feel quick but it really isin't.

DslBnz

I said 560SL. Not the SEL. Sorry, I know this is the W126 forum. Have you driven a good 560SL, lately?

It must be the torque, then.

BlownV8

Sorry, I meant to say 560 SL. The 560 SL is even slower than the SEC and is rated at 227 vs the SEC's 238. The US 560 SEC was rated at 0-60 in 7.2 and the SL was rated at 8 seconds to 60 mph due to a more restrictive exhaust system.

EuroCoupe

Plus the SL weighs a little more than the SEC. My father-in-law says the same thing, "I've driven a bunch and mine just feels faster than all of them." May be true but you wouldn't think it could be any more than a tenth or two in 0-60 and 1/4 mile times.

DslBnz

The SL is actually lighter than the SEC. The SL "only" weighs 3740 lbs, while the US SEC weighs 3900 + lbs.

So you're saying that a 560SL weighing in at 3740 lbs with 227 hp and 278 lb/ft of torque is barely as fast as a 177 hp 188 lb/ft of torque screamer 300E with 3300 - 3500 lbs?

EuroCoupe

I must have been thinking of the R129 SL, not the 107 as far as weight goes. I think the 300E is near the SL in acceleration figures due to not only the minor weight loss, but also the gearing. Doesn't the 560SL have a 2.47 rear end? The 300E's have 3.07 and some 3.27 which would make a big difference over the 2.47.

DslBnz

Yes, but the 560 has a lot of low end torque. The 300E is a screamer six.

Oh, well. I am only going by what the car feels like. Maybe I'm wrong, maybe not.

Then again I wasn't wrong about my diesel, LLA.

drakon

Give us a 0-60 time, and top speed.

Stock US 560 SEC run about 7.2 0-60, pretty much any model between 86 to 91. Look up stuff at mbcoupes.com.

Mercedes did offer different rear ends, which make the car feel a HECK of a lot faster, but the 'power' is about the same.

And seriously, you haven't driven any post '96 mercedes have you? Almost any (including the ML430) will beat and feel faster than the US w126s.

eddie

DslBnz

I currently own a '97 E420. Yes, once it gets rolling, nothing can keep up with it.

mr.thorsten

Hello.
What is the maximum Octane in the US. Maybe, are the Euro engines different because of the fuel? In Germany the Octane goes up to 98 ( at one company up to 100).

So long

Thorsten

drakon

Highest NORMAL octane is 91, 99 can be purchased some places, and 110 can be ordered/prepared in the US.

It is the difference in engine compression (US=9.1 or so, Euro=10.1 or so) and the extra smog equipment.

eddie

MB AMG

Oh, I guess I would loose a race in a 560SEC against my friend's SC400...
BTW, the highest octane rating here is 91 (or 92)...