The death of MB
Thread Starter
Member
Joined: Dec 2002
Posts: 78
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From: Pittsburgh, USA
1995 S420
The death of MB
The latest reports have confirmed why people have been moving from MB to Lexus. Yes MB has the brand appeal and history, but the quality and reliability is all but gone. And with more part swapping with Chrysler to cut costs, we can expect even more problems.
http://www.thecarconnection.com/inde...&sid=175&n=156
And with Lexus poised to introduce more agressive models, more quality, and more power, and more appeal, they have vowed to put an end to MB. MB will be nothing but a speciality car. Wake up MB, read the forums and pay attention to your customers.
http://www.thecarconnection.com/inde...&sid=175&n=156
And with Lexus poised to introduce more agressive models, more quality, and more power, and more appeal, they have vowed to put an end to MB. MB will be nothing but a speciality car. Wake up MB, read the forums and pay attention to your customers.
Super Member
Joined: Apr 2003
Posts: 563
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From: Wash., D.C.
C280
Re: The death of MB
Originally posted by ychachad
The latest reports have confirmed why people have been moving from MB to Lexus. Yes MB has the brand appeal and history, but the quality and reliability is all but gone. And with more part swapping with Chrysler to cut costs, we can expect even more problems.
http://www.thecarconnection.com/inde...&sid=175&n=156
And with Lexus poised to introduce more agressive models, more quality, and more power, and more appeal, they have vowed to put an end to MB. MB will be nothing but a speciality car. Wake up MB, read the forums and pay attention to your customers.
The latest reports have confirmed why people have been moving from MB to Lexus. Yes MB has the brand appeal and history, but the quality and reliability is all but gone. And with more part swapping with Chrysler to cut costs, we can expect even more problems.
http://www.thecarconnection.com/inde...&sid=175&n=156
And with Lexus poised to introduce more agressive models, more quality, and more power, and more appeal, they have vowed to put an end to MB. MB will be nothing but a speciality car. Wake up MB, read the forums and pay attention to your customers.
Look at all the trouble the US went though trying to keep up with German and Japanese autos (and they still can't really compete).
One advantage the Japanese have is electronics, that's what they do best, and as cars added more and more electronics it only make sense that Japanese cars had less problems in these areas.
MB will never go under, when you go to Europe all you see are German and Italian cars (I wish we had Alfa Romeo, Fiat, and of course the Audi S3, here in the US). MB makes trucks and lots of other industrial thingies...
So, even if sales are down here in the USA, MB will always sell it's cars in Europe and other places in the world, if fact, I don't remember seeing that many Japanese cars in Europe, I saw a few Honda S2000, and of course some small Japanese and Korean cars we don't get...but mostly German, Italian, and of course Opel (GM ?).
In Paris, I walked into an MB dealership, and I was surprised to see the list price of a C class was much less than in the states, I looked inside, and it had clothe seats, non-power windows, smaller engine, and an manual tranny…So, although MBs are statues/luxury cars in the USA, this car was cheaper and simpler…kind of like buying a Buick in the USA.
Lets wait till next year, the J.D. report was only year 2000, and we all know about MBs problems with the ML, 2000 S class (first year); and what was news to me, was the problems with the 2000 E class (25% of MBs auto sales are E classes).
...and this part is a joke: "It also lost on excessive brake dust on its wheels, a problem unique to German cars with big brakes designed for the autobahn."
I mean, get real !
Last edited by C280Sportster; Jul 13, 2003 at 04:32 PM.
Thread Starter
Member
Joined: Dec 2002
Posts: 78
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From: Pittsburgh, USA
1995 S420
Re: Re: The death of MB
My friend, you are absolutely correct about the electronics part. It is impossible to compete against the quality and reliability of Japanese electronics. And these cars use increasingly complicated electronics. But as most people say, it takes MB 2-3 years to iron out the bugs. In todays world, especially since Lexus hits the target everytime, that cannot be an excuse, especially on cars that are 75k to 130k flagship sedans. Maybe I was extreme in saying the death of MB, but then again, never has ANY car company nose dived from 1st place to 25th place in a matter of 15 years. That is unbecoming of MB, and inexcusable.
I also agree, the brake dust issue is a joke, and nitpicking, but it is also true.
Y. Chachad
I also agree, the brake dust issue is a joke, and nitpicking, but it is also true.
Y. Chachad
Originally posted by C280Sportster
I think they are trying...It isn't easy to design and produce these high end cars.
Look at all the trouble the US went though trying to keep up with German and Japanese autos (and they still can't really compete).
One advantage the Japanese have is electronics, that's what they do best, and as cars added more and more electronics it only make sense that Japanese cars had less problems in these areas.
MB will never go under, when you go to Europe all you see are German and Italian cars (I wish we had Alfa Romeo, Fiat, and of course the Audi S3, here in the US). MB makes trucks and lots of other industrial thingies...
So, even if sales are down here in the USA, MB will always sell it's cars in Europe and other places in the world, if fact, I don't remember seeing that many Japanese cars in Europe, I saw a few Honda S2000, and of course some small Japanese and Korean cars we don't get...but mostly German, Italian, and of course Opel (GM ?).
In Paris, I walked into an MB dealership, and I was surprised to see the list price of a C class was much less than in the states, I looked inside, and it had clothe seats, non-power windows, smaller engine, and an manual tranny…So, although MBs are statues/luxury cars in the USA, this car was cheaper and simpler…kind of like buying a Buick in the USA.
Lets wait till next year, the J.D. report was only year 2000, and we all know about MBs problems with the ML, 2000 S class (first year); and what was news to me, was the problems with the 2000 E class (25% of MBs auto sales are E classes).
...and this part is a joke: "It also lost on excessive brake dust on its wheels, a problem unique to German cars with big brakes designed for the autobahn."
I mean, get real !
I think they are trying...It isn't easy to design and produce these high end cars.
Look at all the trouble the US went though trying to keep up with German and Japanese autos (and they still can't really compete).
One advantage the Japanese have is electronics, that's what they do best, and as cars added more and more electronics it only make sense that Japanese cars had less problems in these areas.
MB will never go under, when you go to Europe all you see are German and Italian cars (I wish we had Alfa Romeo, Fiat, and of course the Audi S3, here in the US). MB makes trucks and lots of other industrial thingies...
So, even if sales are down here in the USA, MB will always sell it's cars in Europe and other places in the world, if fact, I don't remember seeing that many Japanese cars in Europe, I saw a few Honda S2000, and of course some small Japanese and Korean cars we don't get...but mostly German, Italian, and of course Opel (GM ?).
In Paris, I walked into an MB dealership, and I was surprised to see the list price of a C class was much less than in the states, I looked inside, and it had clothe seats, non-power windows, smaller engine, and an manual tranny…So, although MBs are statues/luxury cars in the USA, this car was cheaper and simpler…kind of like buying a Buick in the USA.
Lets wait till next year, the J.D. report was only year 2000, and we all know about MBs problems with the ML, 2000 S class (first year); and what was news to me, was the problems with the 2000 E class (25% of MBs auto sales are E classes).
...and this part is a joke: "It also lost on excessive brake dust on its wheels, a problem unique to German cars with big brakes designed for the autobahn."
I mean, get real !
MBWorld Fanatic!
Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 2,081
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From: Indiana
1986 560SEL, 97 BMW 740iL
I look at the whole issue this way, picking a car is more or less like picking a wife. Ahem....if you picked the right one, you could enjoy many years of joy and trouble free services. 
It's all depending on your luck. My sister's boyfriend bought a Lexus LS430 and he hated it. What can I say, it works both way. Just that you get more for less so more people are buying it doens't put the Benz to death.
It's all depending on your luck. My sister's boyfriend bought a Lexus LS430 and he hated it. What can I say, it works both way. Just that you get more for less so more people are buying it doens't put the Benz to death.
Thread Starter
Member
Joined: Dec 2002
Posts: 78
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From: Pittsburgh, USA
1995 S420
Your sister's boyfriend hated the LS430. Agreed, but that is a matter of preference, not a question of reliability and integrity.
My 92 LS400 with 190,000 still runs like new, so does my 1995 MB S420, but it has tinkering nitpicking problems, and I am always afraid, something major is going to go down. Always afraid. I rag the Lexus, and it just keeps wanting more.
Y. Chachad
My 92 LS400 with 190,000 still runs like new, so does my 1995 MB S420, but it has tinkering nitpicking problems, and I am always afraid, something major is going to go down. Always afraid. I rag the Lexus, and it just keeps wanting more.
Y. Chachad
Originally posted by dtkw
I look at the whole issue this way, picking a car is more or less like picking a wife. Ahem....if you picked the right one, you could enjoy many years of joy and trouble free services. It's all depending on your luck. My sister's boyfriend bought a Lexus LS430 and he hated it. What can I say, it works both way. Just that you get more for less so more people are buying it doens't put the Benz to death.
I look at the whole issue this way, picking a car is more or less like picking a wife. Ahem....if you picked the right one, you could enjoy many years of joy and trouble free services.
It's all depending on your luck. My sister's boyfriend bought a Lexus LS430 and he hated it. What can I say, it works both way. Just that you get more for less so more people are buying it doens't put the Benz to death.
Super Member
Joined: Nov 2001
Posts: 560
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From: Atlanta, GA
Lexus GS 450h
MB will always be atop PRESTIGE wise, Lexus has yet to sell a V-12, let alone one with TTs
.
But Lexus was the #1 selling Luxury nameplate in 3 years with 3 models. They totally figured out what people want. Prestige over that guy in the Taurus/Accord etc and to simply start every day. Now they sell 240k models with no sub 30k cars.
Even the Europeans are warming up. Many owners simply are converting cause they are sick and tired of the issues with an EXPENSIVE car. I know a used car dealer there that says once he sells someone in the U.K a Lexus, they never go back to anything else cause it gives them no issues.
The fact remains only about 1% of BMW, Benz, Lexus owners track, or MODD their cars. So They better ride that M/AMG HALO.
Benz does have a vast arsenal of coupes, sedans, wagon, diesals, AMG etc so they are not going anywhere. Their prestige (the star) is unmatched. But their invincibility is now gone.
. But Lexus was the #1 selling Luxury nameplate in 3 years with 3 models. They totally figured out what people want. Prestige over that guy in the Taurus/Accord etc and to simply start every day. Now they sell 240k models with no sub 30k cars.
Even the Europeans are warming up. Many owners simply are converting cause they are sick and tired of the issues with an EXPENSIVE car. I know a used car dealer there that says once he sells someone in the U.K a Lexus, they never go back to anything else cause it gives them no issues.
The fact remains only about 1% of BMW, Benz, Lexus owners track, or MODD their cars. So They better ride that M/AMG HALO.
Benz does have a vast arsenal of coupes, sedans, wagon, diesals, AMG etc so they are not going anywhere. Their prestige (the star) is unmatched. But their invincibility is now gone.
