Okay guys. I'm interested in hearing some of your opinions on a higher mileaged S430. It's a '00 S430 with 125k miles or so. I have got a chance to look at the car, and here are some key notes

-Service record is impeccable, all serviced at dealer.
-Recently taken in for compression/leakdown. Great shape
-Owner is an enthusiast, albeit it may have been driven hard, it also has been serviced correctly.

I am very mechanically inclined, so if a non major issues arises, I don't have a problem fixing it. Although, I am more concerned with larger problems (drivetrain failure, etc)

I've also heard the electronics is also a gremlin in this year model. So I'm just making sure I won't have anything major come up right after purchase. Thanks guys!

 

That sounds good, but in all honesty - not a good idea. It's going to be 10 years old soon, and is by some W220 standards considered pretty primitive.

I would advise to try to get a 2004 and newer.

 

Can you elaborate a little? I understand it will be ten years old in a couple, but I would always take a better maintained older car than a questionable newer car, unless there was a huge cash incentive.

 

The price of the newer W220s have come down so much you should be able to get a tidy, relatively low mileage '04 S430 for less than $20k.

My own experience of the early W220s (well my father's car to be precise but I saw the issues first hand) would put me off purchasing one, no matter how cheap.

 

I wouldn't let the mileage scare you since MB is known for the longevity on motors and it seems PO took care of the vehicle. If you are mechanically inclined and able to fix small things, go for it. But, it will all depends on how much you will pay for the vehicle. As Fraser said the cost of the newer ones are coming down, you should look at the KBB value and determine the proper cost for the 00 S430.For example of my purchase, I recently purchased 03 S430 4Matic with 80k mi for 11900. I will be purchasing extended warranty on my vehicle since I am not equipped to do my own work. Good luck.

 

See http://www.benzworld.org/forums/w220...-look-out.html

 

I would stay away from it. The reason they have come down in price so much is because dealers cannt give them away fast enough.
Cars have numerous problems an d they cost and arm and a leg to fix.
If you like a car that drives every day and doesnt cost much to maintain get a Lexus. Or buy a newer benz with warranty.

Think about it. a Nice mint 99 S500 W140 can be had for 12-13. A 02-02 S500 is about the same price range, but 99 S500 was much better in build quality, while not perfect.

 

To be honest with you guys, with the money that I'm saving, I could easily purchase an aftermarket warranty and still have money in my pocket. Which gives me a load of comfort.

Can someone also point me in the direction of the difference between the model years? Thanks!!

 

I fear you will have a hard time finding an aftermarket warranty for a 2000 S430 with 125K miles. If you do come across one it likely will be wicked expensive and exclude everything you need to have covered. i.e. Air suspension, electronics, etc. I've hever had the slightest problem with the engine, transmission, driveline on mine.

I have the exact model you are looking at and had it not been covered by an extended MB warranty, I'd have unloaded it within a year of buying it. That's not to say I don't love the car. Once all of the niggling issues were corrected by around 25k miles it has been all but perfect for around 60k.

One with 125k has probably had all the requisite repairs/replacements but I'd want to be totally sure of this before I even considered buying it. Even then, I'd most likely go for one a few years newer with fewer miles for maybe the same money. A few grand more will get you an '04.

Sam

 

wow, this is quite surprising to me guys. Sorry if it sounds like I'm ignorant, but my father has owned quite a few Mercedes and I remember as a child they were rock solid.

He even had a old old S class that was a turbo diesel, bought it brand new off the showroom floor and it was a tank. This all seems contradictory to what I'm getting from this forum.

The concensus so far seems that these cars are a maintenance nightmare. I currently have a '03 G35 sedan that I would be getting rid of to make room for the S430. My G35 has had 0 problems other than routine maintenance (oil changes, tranny fluid, etc). Am I looking at something completely opposite?

To be honest, I don't plan on keeping the car for more than 1-2 years ~145k miles or so.

 

Well the old, old Mercs were rock solid and would last for years, if not decades. The latest ones, especially from the beginning of this decade weren't so well built.

I think I heard somewhere that MB or Daimler were making around $1bn a year profit in the late 90s but it was suggested by beancounters if they built their cars less well they'd be able to double if not triple it. The comments you are reading are about the after effects of that.

Take a look at cars.com for '04s. Seriously, there are tons of them out there and at very cheap prices, and that's before you negotiate. These cars will have lower miles and are more reliable than the earlier W220s. You'll have a better chance of getting a warranty and it'll be money well spent.

 

Thanks for the advice. The latest Benz my dad bought was a '98 E430 brand new as well (I forget what year, I think it was '98 it came out with the E430 vs E420). Also rock solid car.

The dilemma I am facing is I found a beautiful example of a '00 S430 with 125k miles. It's priced right, it's got some mods that I would personally do as well (wheels, tint, amg spoiler/roof spoiler). And I know enthusiast always take good care of their cars (from my own personal experience).

This just so happens that my G35 that I've been looking to sell also has a buyer that is picking it up Thursday. So I would like as little downtime as possible, although I do not have to sell the G35.

 

If you get a good deal on it , its a great car. I have a 00 S430 it still runs great since the day I got it. The engine and tranny if well maintained should be fine to 200k easily. We have many fleet vehicles s500 and s430 , 00 , 01 with close to or 200k on them.

You should be paying about for $8000 for a car with 125k , maybe less. You can find cars with 80k for around 10-11k if you look really hard and don't care about color.

You might have to watch out about the airmatic but these days those parts are cheap if you source them correct.

Everyone on this board is so against the 00 model , Some have had problems but never usually Engine or Tranny.

Hell I have a 02 745i also and people claimed this car was the most terrible and unreliable car ever when it came out , I have 160k still runs like when I first got it.

 

honestly, these cars have a lot more parts, electronics etc than your dads old S-Class. That said, I would also avoid an 00-03.

The price difference is small these days, so there is really no reason not to get a newer one.

 

I have no problem buying high mileage cars but i guess my reasoning is different. I usually dont keep a car longer than maybe a year so for me. Buying a 100k+ mile car is actually profitable for me because my job requires me to drive a lot. They pay me 53 cents a mile and usually I can find someone that completely unloads a car for a great price. Drive it for 15-30 k miles in that year then sale either for the price I bought it for or even more. If you find one really cheap, I say go for it. Really, the only thing to worry about is the air suspension and now there are cheap ways to fix it and even ways to totally get rid of it.

I use to buy cars with 60k-80k miles but I would always lose money and have more problems in that range than just buying one with 90k-110k miles. I bought one new car in my life. A 99 ML and paid cash. The depreciation was so *$&# awful I will never do that again. So I now either buy mid to really high miles. I also use autotrader and ebay and craigslist to look for a car and to see how long a car will last. If I see a lot of them with over 140-150k miles than I feel a lot more comfortable about the purchase of one with 99k or so miles on it. I think I saw a S class yesterday with 207k on it on ebay. A 2000 model.Surprisingly it was already at a 7k bid.

So, I went ahead and bought a higher mileage one and a 2000. I checked carfax and the dealer and had complete service history. Everything I see on here that people complain about had been replaced except for the relay. New Air Pump at 60k miles, one new strut at 50k and another at 80k. New a/c compressor at 50k. oil leak repair at 40k. Always serviced a mecedes benz north houston,etc,etc. I rather buy a car with 99k that had a 100k 10 year starmark service contract than one with 65k that was out of warranty 15k miles and 4 years ago.

I see a lot of comments about w220 not being the reliable mercedes from years ago. While for them they may feel that way I dont. The engine and trans are some of the most bullet proof items on the car and maybe even more reliable from those yesterday mercedes. I seem to remember my father having to pay 3000 dollars to get the AC fixed and anyone else that has a w140 series. If it wasnt for the air suspension I think the worlds view on this car would be totally different. Having owned many range rovers and tossing the air suspension on those I was originally prepared to do the same at the first sign of trouble from the S class. I have since, Done more research on to price of parts. You can get an entirely new strut for just 400 bucks and the pump and everything else is even cheaper. Also, except for the strut , Everything can be changed myself. Looking at people on the forum, almost 95% of everything is maintenece related except for the air suspension. I guess I need to start looking at that like maintenece. Its certainly cheaper than paying for the B service at my dealership.

One other thing. Services on this car are not cheap and can range from any where between 300 to 700 dollares. I went last week to get some new wipers and had to pay 140 dollars. (they put them on for free). You can have this car for a long time. Just make sure you are ready and willing to plunk down the cash to do it when the cars tells you.

P.S. Make sure you have the car looked over before you buy it. I am pretty good at cars but this is a complicated car. I went to the dealer I bought mines from with a OBD II reader and knew what areas to look at, removing the air filter cover checking for valve cover leaks, air suspension cracks, etc, etc. And Yes, I pushed every button before I rolled off that dealer lot. This is not a car that you can just look at and say its good. Unless you really know what you are doing, get it professionally checked out before you buy. Especially at this mileage. Only thing wrong with mine was a blinker light in the passenger side mirror. Car dealer was adamant on showing me the NO MALFUNCTION display. Flicked the turn signal and got a message. Still trying to figure out how to change it. Refuse to give dealer the pleasure of changing a light bulb on my Dime, especially after the wiper indecent.

I know this was long but hope it helps.

 

VMY-

Thanks for the great response!! You hit the nail on the spot. I honestly don't plan on having the car for more than 20k miles or so, about a year or a little more.

As far as the maintenance, I was planning on taking care of that myself as I'm pretty mechanically inclined.

 

I am too. There was a time I would change the Valve cover gaskets on my V12 850 but the maintenance on this car is insane. If you can or feel like doing all the stuff good luck. I dont have the time or the equipment to do it "ALL" but wish I could. BTW here is the list of all the service items with each step.

A - Service Schedule (minor)

• Vehicle Passenger Compartment
  • Reset Flexible Service System (FSS) counter in instrument cluster.
  • Replace dust filter.
  • Horn, headlamp flasher, hazard flasher, turn signals.
  • Warning/indicator lamps, illumination and interior lighting.
  • Exterior lighting incl. headlamps.
  • Windshield wipers, windshield washer system.
  • Headlamp cleaning system.
  • Check seat belts for damage and proper function.
  • If so equipped: Battery, wet cell; Check acid level, replenish.
  • Check battery condition using "Midtronics MCR 717" Tester.

• Engine Compartment
  • Change engine oil and renew filter element.
  • Fully synthetic engine oil
  • Check and correct fluid level:
  • - Engine cooling system, antifreeze and corrosion protection.
  • - Brake system.
  • - Windshield washer.
  • Lubricate catch, safety catch and hinges on engine hood.

• Brakes
  • Brake Discs / Pads: Check overall thickness condition & surfaces with a measuring gauge *
  • Parking Brake: Check lever travel, adjust according to directive if necessary *
  • Alloy wheels: Grease centre hub *

• Tires
  • Check tires and wheels: external condition on both sides, depth of thread condition, tire pressures (including spare wheel), correct sizes.

• Steering
  • Check steering: steering box, steering linkage, joint disc, threaded connections, freedom from leaks, tension of power steering V-belt.

• Seat belt
  • Check seat belts: condition & correct operation.

B - Service Schedule (major)

• Vehicle Passenger Compartment
  • Read & Print All Diagnostic Codes (Engine and Transmission).
  • Reset Flexible Service System (FSS) counter in instrument cluster.
  • Replace dust filter.
  • Horn, headlamp flasher, hazard flasher, turn signals.
  • Warning/indicator lamps, illumination and interior lighting.
  • Exterior lighting incl. headlamps.
  • Windshield wipers, windshield washer system.
  • Headlamp cleaning system.
  • Check seat belts for damage and proper function.
  • If so equipped: Battery, wet cell; Check acid level, replenish.
  • Check battery condition using "Midtronics MCR 717" Tester.

• Brake Test
  • Brake test on dynamometer or test drive. Check parking brake and run in according to specifications (on vehicles with 4MATIC, ASR, ETS, ESP observe instructions in Maintenance Manual!).

• Wheels, Brakes
  • Remove and reinstall wheels, rotate if necessary, does not apply for vehicles with different tire sizes front/rear.
  • Check brake pads for lining thickness front/rear.
  • Check condition of brake discs front and rear.
  • Check tires for damage and condition.
  • Measure and record tread depth. Correct tire inflation pressure.

• Vehicle Underbody
  • Visual check for: Leakage - Major components.
  • Chafe marks, line routing, components.
  • Check condition of front axle ball joints.
  • Check condition of steering's mechanical components.

• Engine Compartment
  • Engine oil and filter change.
  • Fully synthetic engine oil
  • Visually check: Leakage - Major components.
  • Chafe marks, line routing, components.
  • Check and correct fluid level:
  • - Engine cooling system, antifreeze and corrosion protection.
  • - Level control (wagon only) Brake system.
  • - Power steering.
  • - A/C refrigerant level.
  • - Windshield washer system.
  • Check condition of poly-V-belt.
  • Lubricate throttle linkage, check function and condition.
  • Lubricate catch, safety catch and hinges on engine hood.

• Front, Rear of Vehicle
  • Replace windshield wiper rubber inserts.
  • Inspect headlamp range adjustment of headlamps (NOT for xenon headlamps).
  • Inspect headlamp setting, adjust to correct setting.
  • Inspect condition of wiper blade for rear window.
  • Inspect fluid level of rear window washer, correct.

• Tires
  • Correct tire inflation pressure in spare tire.

C - Service Schedule (major)

• Service Includes:
  • All of the "A" Service and "B" Service.
  • Replace Fuel Filters (gasoline and diesel).
  • Service the Transmission.
  • Replace the Power Steering Fluid and Filter.
  • Reminder Card for Next Service Needed

 

The A/B/C services look pretty simplistic. The only thing I see a problem with is reseting the FSS. It seems like it's more of visual checks more than anything.

Otherwise, simple fluid changes.

 

Chnco,

Go for it. At the risk of irritating some on this forum, I seriously don't think many on here actually do their own work on the 220. Probably a function of time versus money. I'm lucky that I have more of the former so I have always taken the plunge and just figured whatever it is out - and as a result have operated my cars at a much lower expense and even enjoy the return of satisfaction for figuring out a mechanical problem.

Someone mentioned their Range Rover ownership experience and that is similar for me. I have only driven RR's since college, so you can only imagine the tools and "experiences" I have accumulated over the years (I'm 40 now). I have always been one to do things myself if not too difficult (I wouldn't tackle an engine teardown for example) and most of the issues on these cars are not too difficult if you are armed with the proper information,tools, aftermarket parts resources and friends on a forum like this one.

To be honest, I just recently purchased a 220 solely because I had grown tired of working on my HSE RR daily driver for what seemed like weekly just to keep it running. I have a super forum for RR that is extremely well contributed to from literally the four corners of the world (like benz, it too is a worldly car). You won't find postings on there about bling stuff - just similar fellas helping each other out.

These 220's are built very well. The airmatic is so basic and easy to work on, I actually sought out my 220 because of it. My PO discounted the car $8,000 because that is what she was told by the stealership it would take to fix her airmatic. Disgusting! As soon as I bought it, I fixed it in an hour for under $100 - and felt zero guilt!

I think I have a unique viewpoint of airmatic, probably from rebuilding my RR EAS system (and that of many friends under shade trees) over the past few years, but I do not find it intimidating whatsoever. The ride is unbeatable with airmatic. I love it in my RR for another reason (off road capabilities), but would NEVER consider "castrating" a RR to spring conversion. Can't imagine why anyone would own a 220 without airmatic either now that I mention it.

Have your target checked out for the typical stuff, but it sounds like the PO is a good owner and has probably been going to the stealership (like so many) like a good boy (more money than time) for years and therefore you know zero corners were cut. That was my only concern....if a PO did his own work - did he cut corners or did he do it right? Sounds like you are safe with your prospect.

Good luck! Hopefully you go for it and stay active on this wonderful forum so we can help each other enjoy our fine automobiles.

Art in San Jose

 

Art-

Thanks for the response!! It was definitely an inspring one. I think we have similar aspirations, as I enjoy working on cars, and do not mind it at all. The only concern I had was with pricing of parts.

I've always known that MB services were a premium from my dad's experience. I mean, $170+ an hour for service is nearly double the standard price at a non-premium dealership. I think this is part of the reason for the high service bills.

I'm actually a moderator over at Supraforums and will continue to stay active in any forums. I've done pretty much all the work on my Supra, mechanical wise.

Thanks again for the post!

 

Was wondering if anyone here had previously owned a range rover. I know exactly what you mean Ajkennedy with it being like a weekly ritual to keep everything in top shape. Twas the good ol days when my friend was in the army. They use to let us use all the tools we needed and lifts to work on personal cars(I was not in the army). Made doing things so much easier but like you said, I am at the point where I have money more than time so I just let the dealer do the maintence stuff. You know, acutally reading it, Except for C everything is pretty easy. I would never attempt to open a transmission. Its the only part of a car I never bothered to learn and you rarely read any problems except for getting the car out of park which I sure I could do that repair myself. Good luck, sounds like the car you are looking at is in remarkable condition. Dont forget to post pics

 

Well, I have owned 91 300E 4Matic, 95 Range Rover Classic LWB, 97 Discovery SE, 2002 Range Rover 4.6HSE, 2000 E430 4Matic, and now 2003 S430 4Matic. All of the vehicle I have owned had common thing. Impeccable service record. I agree with Art on EAS on RR or MB. Cannot beat the comfort of the ride with EAS on. My 91 300E retired(donated) when it had 218k mi, and my 95 RR had original EAS and lasted to 128k mi. It is up to you how you keep up your vehicle. 125k mi on MB is nothing if properly maintained. I also used to have 91 Audi V8(older version of A8) with 238k mi. If you feel this is a vehicle you can up keep and want, go for it. I did get my S430 4Matic w 79k mi. I know it will give me long and reliable ride as long as I up keep and cherish what I have.

 

Oohh, 95 classic LWB? Was it the 25th anniversary model? I had a 90 model county(died firing death on interstate) so I didnt have to worry about or learn about EAS (electronic air suspension) till i got my 97 4.0(sold). Then the 00se 4.0(drowned in katrina) and last the 01 4.6hse (sold). I was looking at newer model Range rovers recently and test drove that and the S class. I use to be a die hard W140 coupe fan and told myself that would be my last S class I would buy ( Had a 95) . After the test drive of the w220 S class though, No regrets I decided to get the Range later. Not sure why though, First time I drove a S class I didnt like it to much. That was in 04 and it was a 02 model. Now, I wonder why I didnt get one of these a long time ago.

 

Well, my 95 was not the 25th Ann model but it had a crane cams, Borla exhaust and TWB body cladding.(Black) Sold it to the RR mechanic. Since then I have driven Expedition, A8L, Two H2's (Black and WHite), 91 750IL, and let me tell you, nothing comes close to the comfort and luxury of S series. I really wanted to get the S500, but was not in my budget.
I don't regret with S430 though. I will be purchasing extended warranty and I should be set for 200k mi!!

 

Art, what exactly needed being done that you could do it for under $100 in an hour?

That is what I call good work!
Thanks.