S600Keith

Well, I could try to trade it in on a newer model with less problems like Bruce suggests. However, I don't want another car payment. I haven't had a car payment since I turned in my first S600 that I had leased. I don't like to make payments on something that is losing value. Other than S600 #1, I have paid cash for all of my cars for the past 12 years. In fact, the only monthly payments I make are utilities and 4 mortgages. I pay cash for everything I own.

The reference to the bank acct, while "odd," was meant to reveal that while I may have the money to go hog wild I do have SOME restraint on how much "doughrayme" I am willing to spend on a car. I am also married and my better half does not share my enthusiasm for powerful, graceful automobiles. Truth be told I could pay cash right now for a brand new S600 but I would surely be parking that one in front of my doghouse where I would be sleeping from here on out.

No, I will undertake this project for a variety of reasons. First, I am too cheap (read: married) to drop a bunch more scratch on another car and admit that I got hosed on this one. Second, I think I can get through this while spending 10%-33% of what the shop was trying to get out of me. Third, I have been envying Howard and his attempts to get his car back into shape. I actually miss doing the work on my cars and I think it makes me appreciate them more. I also know that I will do the work as well or better than a shop. Lastly, I had wanted to make some "enhancements" on this car eventually. I would have had a hard time getting these past the wife but if they are bundled into the repair bill I may be able to get away with it without raising too much suspicion.

But for now, the car will have to just sit for the most part. I have too much on my plate to tackle this head on right now. I may do some disassembly a little bit at a time for a while. Don't worry, I plan to take plenty of pics along the way to help my brothers and sisters here on the forum.

I can't tell you how much all of your support means to me. As much as this whole situation sucks, it is nice to know that there is a whole bunch of folks from all different walks of life who are willing to help. You folks are great!

Keith

Sgt. Schultz

I'm definintely no Mensa, and 2+2 sometimes gives me 5 - but - help me w/ the math here.

Say you delve into repairs DIY and get them done for 1/2 of stealer quote. Call it $9k for giggles.

You just spent $9k.

or

You trade / sell your car today for say - $15k (quite literally just pulling a # out of me ****).

You take that verysame $9k you ^^^would have spent on them repairs^^^ and re-cast into something w/ less issue - that $24k would go a pretty decent way toward getting something... well... pretty decent.

Where's the "car payment" come into play there???

Sorry, I'm confuzorzed 8-).

Regardless... again, kudos to your initiative and attitude and definitely best of luck good sir! What "while yer in thar's" are you contemplating? We promise not to tell The Mrs!


ps. d'oh more bank acct ref's! d'oh! Rich-off!!! 8-) Next, we'll start seeing posts with an arm holding up some car part or pointing to something but the camera's really focused on your Rolex... yes I'm toooootally just bustin yer chops heh heh and know that wasn't your intention, I still just find personal finances references online to just be strange 8-)... FWLIW

AH1W-COBRA

i still say this car has very few real set backs, the toughest one being the EIS not comm with computer. EIS is an expensive unit and has an enormous job in the memory of accessory function and will be hard to troubleshoot accurately by yourself. the motor mounts are normal maint as are the coil packs and plugs. abc/ps pump and lines are building reliability back into the car. manifold leaks, simple. you let the cat out of the bag by hinting at a couple hundred $k are available but common sense, wife. and business ethic keeps you in check. just get online and order everything, ill guess less than $9k and your pride of ownership will be back to the elite status that the S600 badge demands. i want one of those beauties myself!

Fraser

Pentagon Federal offer 2% APR (!!) on used car loans and if you're not getting 2% on your investments you need a better investment advisor! Heck, that's cheaper than drawing on a lot of HELOCs, after you've taken the tax deduction!

Secured lending rates are so cheap at the moment that I think most people are better off having a car payment than paying cash for something.

I used to be in asset management and routinely saw people with eight figure liquid asset portfolios, many of whom still had mortgages on their properties, and even car loans. If you're earning 6% on your investments (very conservative) and you're paying less than that on your car loan it's costing you money in the long run.

DirtyVegasMB

My S600 had over $23K in repairs in the last 6 months. Many of the issues are what you have mentioned. Luckily for me, Fidelity (extended warranty sold by MB) covered all repairs. Needless to say they were not happy authorizing all that work, but they stood by the repairs.

Once all that work is done you will feel like it's a new car again!

MB-Dude

+1 I agree. A painful road can be a very exhilarating one... at the end. Plus Keith gets bragging rights for bringing a car back from purgatory.
Cheers,
Jeff

S600Keith

Thanks brother but I will have to share bragging rights with Howard. I appreciate everyone's help here. Sgt brings a good argument to the table but even if I do find another car there is sure to be some problems with that one, right? I prefer to keep the devil I know than the devil I don't know. I am also with AH1 in the belief that there is really not that much going on here. As was already said, the pump may be one of the more expensive parts that is known to be bad (unless the coil packs do not come off without a problem). The shops (two of them) had quoted me a price of $1700 for that part and I found it online for under $700. Honestly, I think the labor is the butt-kicker here.

I am actually getting a bit anxious to get started on the project. I wish I had the time to just completely dedicate myself to this right now but I am too busy. Hopefully, I will get a bit of time soon to do a bit of tinkering and get a few of the pieces off of the car, just to get a head start. I think I need to get the STAR diagnostic computer first and the repair DVD first as suggested by others.

Good thing there is such a good support system for these things here. Not all forums are created equal, believe me.

Keith

haoz129

Keith,

The only supporting system you need is the Start C3 or C4 I mentioned which include both hardware and software:
- Multiplexer: It's hardware, a box, between computer and the car;
- DAS: It's the diagnose system pulling codes, setting parameters;
- EPC: The parts catalog used to find out exactly part you need;
- WIS: The step by step repair manual MB shop are using;
And more...

We need install above systems by using DVDs before. But now, if you use the link I provided they have all software pre-installed and shipped in one hard drive.

Any ordering question or setup issue pm me pls.

Thanks.

Howard

SFBIGBODY415

Wow just reading this post I feel really bad for you man. But you know what they say gotta pay to play when you drive a MBZ S600. Also I don't think the repairs are in the 20k range I think the shop is trying to rip you off. I'm sure u can get this fixed for probably half that. Good luck man

Becks Imports

I do not understand this. I buy 20+ AMG cars a year. When one needs huge repairs, I give it back.

If I was a retail owner, and bought one that needed huge repairs, I would cut my losses, sell, and put the money I would have spent on repairs, plus what I got for the car, into a better car or a car with a warranty.

The devil you know needs $9K in work. You can inspect the devil you don't know prior to buying it so you don't repeat this experience, or get a devil-warranty to cover future repairs.

To me, it sounds like you jumped in a hole, there is a rope dangling that will require a little effort to reach, but you decide to stay in the hole.

I wish you the best of luck whichever path you decide to choose, but if this is about finances, you are making the wrong choice. Your current car will cost you more than selling it and getting a better car. The variable here is that you bought this car without inspecting it first, which I assume is a mistake you will not make again.

Bruce

SFBIGBODY415

I agreee with becks even when u do fix the problems that car will keep making new ones for u. I would also trade it in or sell it. Just sounds like a big money pit. I would just take it as a loss and go on to the next one because you never know what else can go wrong down the road while u are working on ur current problems. I love the 600's but this is the reason why I would never buy one without a warranty the repairs are just way to much $


QUOTE=Becks Imports;5124870]I do not understand this. I buy 20+ AMG cars a year. When one needs huge repairs, I give it back.

If I was a retail owner, and bought one that needed huge repairs, I would cut my losses, sell, and put the money I would have spent on repairs, plus what I got for the car, into a better car or a car with a warranty.

The devil you know needs $9K in work. You can inspect the devil you don't know prior to buying it so you don't repeat this experience, or get a devil-warranty to cover future repairs.

To me, it sounds like you jumped in a hole, there is a rope dangling that will require a little effort to reach, but you decide to stay in the hole.

I wish you the best of luck whichever path you decide to choose, but if this is about finances, you are making the wrong choice. Your current car will cost you more than selling it and getting a better car. The variable here is that you bought this car without inspecting it first, which I assume is a mistake you will not make again.

Bruce[/quote]

2k2s430

OP, do you have full coverage insurance?

Becks Imports

ROFL, and do you live near Newark or Camden NJ?

Bruce

2k2s430

Or he could take a roadtrip to Detroit! Maybe even Windsor, Canada that was a favorite destination for those that liked insurance fraud. I remember hearing how certain individuals would go to windsor for dinner and when leaving noticeing the brand new suv they just leased was gone, even before a payment was made! GO figure! This was in the 90's, apparently this one was very profittable. I dont know if they were re-tagging the cars or not. All I recall hearing was that the vehicle was supposedly already at the port or en-route to South Africa or its Middle Eastern destination.

S600Keith

OK, this thread has hit critical mass. Never thought it would take this turn but...

I'll just turn this one over to Bruce and 2k2 since they have some sort of inside joke going. Guess the suggestion is I drive it over the boarder or something.

I am still at least a couple weeks away from starting the project so I will take a few pics and document what I am doing as I do it. For now, Bruce and 2k2 have the floor...

2k2s430

Keith, I apologize for my contribution in taking this thread off topic.

shoot_da_breeze

Well lets see this masterpiece lol? You got any pics? I know it looks like any other w220 but I want to see it. Interior, Exterior, Engine, Trunk lmao.

MBNUT1

I for one wish to thank you for posting this thread. I have been searching these threads because my gf has been encouraging me to buy a R230 SL500. These cars are extremely seductive and even with postings such as yours it's real easy to convince yourself that it won't happen to me. I think that it is real different to read some guy has to shell out $22k in repairs than to be the one writing the check.

The warranty argument doesn't make a lot of sense to me. If it's such a given that the payout is going to exceed the premium then the argument is that companies are essentially willing to lose money. The concept is that the warranty companies are basically incompetent. Given that, the likelihood that the company will be around to payout seems risky at best.

Regardless of the opinions of others if I was in your shoes i would be doing exactly what you are.

Your post reflects that you are of good spirit and I wish you the very best. I'm sure that there are plenty of members here of equally good spirit who will help you along the way to transform the car into the car of your dreams in a time and cost efficient manner.

They are the best cars in world when they are correct.

Sgt. Schultz

You have direct experience with it?

No?

If only there were folks out there who did and could reply with informed experience!!!

Hmmmm, wait a second...

...I do. Much. On multiple cars. Over a dozen years. Tens of thousands in claims.

(read and re-read ^^that^^ again, then repeat, then repeat again)

THAT make sense to you???

8-)

One needs to ensure they go with the right program, 'tis all. Sure, go w/ the wrong one and you're likely to get burned. Fortunately, it's all well researched / well documented here on the forums!

or!

we can rely upon conjecture / hearsay!!! Yeah!

anywho... its yer $$$

MBNUT1

Translation. Those who sell you warranty policies for the cars that you own are idiots and you're the man because you have cashed in on their incompetence. Fair enough......

Sgt. Schultz

...works for me

think of it this way (not to derail this thread, but) - the % of folks who buy coverage that actually use it pales in comparison to the "me's" of their world

Do you have insurance on your house / car? Eggzachry.

again tho, it's your $ no one's holding a gun to your head... just try to not speak from conjecture / hearsay is all 8-)

S600Keith

Thanks MBN. I am still in good spirits in regards to the car. These cars are soooo sweet that I am just enamored with their performance, comfort, ride, silence, fit, and finish. It will be kinda cool to dig into the nuts and bolts of the car. I wish it wasn't so. I wish I could just get into it every day and hit that VERY responsive gas pedal and have my fun. But alas, I will have to pay the piper before I can truly enjoy this again.

And to put to bed the arguments regarding warranties, I have looked into warranties for this car. Once they hit 100K you are DONE! Nobody will touch it after that. I am at 110K. 'Nuf said. That ship has sailed and you can let that one go. For what it's worth, I agree with sarge. If you can get a warranty I would highly recommend it. I paid $4k for the warranty on my first one and had over $15K in work done on it. The engine was out of that car TWICE. Best $4K I ever spent, I'll tell you that.

I never intended this thread as a warning to others to NOT buy these cars. Just the opposite. The S600 is an awesome car and if you are a car nut and performance enthusiast then this will be one of the funnest, if not THE funnest car you've ever been in. Just getting the word out that if you aren't mentally prepared for an expensive bomb to be dropped then maybe you would be better off in a Toyota Camry.

Just sayin'

Keith

Sgt. Schultz

Hey Keith!

sorry for the sidebar above, wasn't responding to you just to the hot air on warranties that was spewed

great testament about you previous experience - now there's a 'nuff-said for ya!

This last post of yours in general is poignant! Amen broham, africkinmen! Definitely great (mind bending) cars for the enthusinut.

Git'rdun! 8-)

Becks Imports

Correct, trying to get a decent warranty on a 100K+ S600 is like, well, trying to get a decent warranty on a 100K+ S600. In other words, impossible.

MBNUT1, your logic about warranties makes sense. If a warranty company sells a plan for an S600 for $4K, and pays out $15K, and does that enough times, they go bye-bye.

But the reality is different because large warranty companies like Fidelity sell 20K+ plans PER MONTH. Everything from a Honda Accord 4-cyl that never ever breaks to an S600 that always always breaks. They have made a strategic decision to cover all cars so they can be thought of as THE place to go for a warranty.

If a car line is truly such a disaster that the data bubbles up to underwriting, they will raise the prices on it to cover their risk. If it continues, they'll surcharge it, and if it still is terrible, some companies will drop a particular model.

Recently NAC reviewed the BMW E60 M5, saw a 350% average loss ratio (meaning they paid out in claims 3.5x what they took in for premiums), and just said "Sorry, no more M5's."

So your logic is correct, they'd be stupid not to do SOMETHING, but to say it's impossible because they'd never write cars that will do over 100% loss ratio is incorrect. That's like saying State Farm will not write homeowner's plans in FL, NC, CA, etc due to risk of hurricane, fire, earthquake, etc. Sometimes they lose, sometimes they win, but overall they know how to run their business.

Bruce

MBNUT1

Thanks Bruce. Your post makes sense. As best I can tell it is pretty much a given that the payout on an S600 is going to exceed the cost of the warranty so as you point out they policies are written as loss leaders. Which is to say for certain cars they are a good deal.