I have read many posts and threads containing warnings about the expense of maintaining a S600. I thought that many of them were hyperbole or exaggerations. Or those were special and isolated cases that could never happen to me. So I purchased my mid-life crisis (read 2003 S600 Sport) for $17500 cash and thought life couldn't be sweeter.

This is the second 2003 that I've had. I leased the first one with under 40,000 miles and got a warranty for it. I thought at the time of purchase on that one that I had probably wasted $3500 but it was probably the best $3500 I've ever spent. I ended up having over $15K in repairs on that one from the intercoolers to the ABC to the transmission. The engine was out of that car twice. I was a bit isolated from the extreme expenses related to that car. I loved that car and when I got rid of it I knew I had to have another.

Now, I knew that my second 2003 had many more miles on it and I was ready for a few setbacks. I figured that it would surely drop a couple $5K bombs over the next couple of years, that is of course on top of the regular (expensive) maintenance. I had never in my wildest dreams imagined what was in store for my first trip to the shop.

It was time for the B service and I have been noticing some power loss along with a humming/whirring sound in the engine. I figured the ABC/PS pump was bad and/or the turbos were going out. I was hoping that I would not get kicked in the shorts too hard but I had an eery feeling it would be a big hit.

That was prophetic.

I dropped off the car and told them what I was going on. I was expecting a call to inform me that there was something terribly wrong. I thought that my worst fears were going to come to fruition...that the turbos were going out and it was going to cost some big bucks to fix. $4K? $6K? $8K? Not even close.

The next day I got the call. Yes, the ABC/PS pump was bad. But that paled in comparison to the litany of repairs needed on the car; broken SRS sensor under the passenger seat, bad bushing on the shift lever, motor mounts crushed, trans mount crushed, leaking rear main seal, high pressure hoses from ABC routed through the wrong place and getting crushed by the collapsed motor mounts, spark plugs need replacing, probably will need new coil packs when doing spark plugs, electronic ignition system not communicating with main computer, PSE pump weak and needs replacing, intake manifold is leaking between the intercoolers and the throttle body allowing turbo pressure to leak into the engine bay, and something called the "oil separator plate"(?) is leaking ABC/PS fluid (the cause of the pump running dry and going bad). I don't have the actual list in front of me but I am sure I missed something in the above list. Grand total...

















Just over $22000 in repairs on a beautiful flagship of the Mercedes line worth just under $18000.

And NO, they won't take a check.

Of course, there will be some labor savings on some of the repairs as there will be a bit of overlap time in taking the engine/trans out of the car. We didn't really cover how much savings that would amount to but I'm sure he would shave a few hundred off of the total.

Sooo.....I picked up the car and brought it home. I have done some work on cars before. Put a new engine in an old Audi I had, swapped used engines in a Nissan, did all my repairs on my old Chevy, VW, motorcycles, etc. But I have never tackled such an advanced, expensive car. It looks as if I will have to jump in head first on this project. It will surely be $5K-$10K in parts even if I do complete all the work myself. Being very busy this may be a 2-3 month project. I am thinking I should take plenty of pics and document my folly with my mid-life crisismobile just like Howard is doing with his. This could take quite a while, though. Wish me luck.

Keith

 

why not just trade it in at a different dealer on a s600 thats under warranty? dont think most of those problems will be spotted during a tradein appraisal, the dealer will just send it to wholesale auction

 

Paid cash for this one and don't want another car payment. I love these cars and it will be worth it for me to undertake this project. I just didn't think I was getting such a problem child when I bought it. That is the problem with getting these cars. There are never more than 20 of them for sale nationwide at any given time. This practically ensures that you will have to purchase one that is hundreds, if not thousands, of miles away. It would be nice if you could inspect it first but that just wasn't in my cards.

I'm not complaining, mind you. Just putting the word out that if you like these cars you have to be willing to sacrifice to get it. And keep it.

Right Howard?

Keith

 

Keith,

I share the pain. My SL600 was a money pit when I first got 'er. And like you, I paid cash. ADS, OBDII, valve timing, anemic engine, broken doodads, etc. we're just the start. I have definitely sunk far more into the car than what it's worth. But... I wanted this car for the long-haul and now that all the crap is fixed, the car is super-reliable. I can recreate the infamous MB commercial where they set a full wine glass on the engine while it's running. (LOL - Freaks out the Saturday AM hot rod crowd!) Now, looking back, I have zero regrets.

Since you write fondly of the S600 (for good reason) maybe you should consider looking at the car as a project of love. Any car, of any vintage, will generally take more $$$ than what it's worth at some point. Fix what you can as time goes on. Eventually, you'll get the worst behind you and you'll have a car that is a true reflection of your love for the S600. Just realize the road will be, shall we say, bumpy along the way.

Cheers,
Jeff

 

Well Said, Jeff.

 

Didn't you get a pre purchase inspection?

 

Jeff, I am sure you and I and Howard share the same sentiments regarding the S600. Yes, it is a labor of love. I just didn't think that so much of the labor would be undertaken by ME. I will certainly have a better appreciation of the car by the time I'm done. I am also contemplating a few "enhancements" if you get my drift.

You DID read the OP, right?

 

Just bc you pay cash, that doesnt mean you cant tell the seller you need the car checked out before finalizing the sale.

Even Howard who can work wonders on his car got a PPI to know the extent of needed work

Bruce Mendel will always tell you to insist on PPI on these cars, its utter foolishness not to get a PPI unless youre buying for 1/2 market price at auction

 

Good on you guys for getting your digs in on my mea culpa thread.

Thanks for that.

ETA: JUST IN CASE anyone else is tempted to throw their 2 cents of crap into this thread, let me just say up front that YES, I KNOW that I am an idiot. You all don't need to keep pointing that out. OK?

Thanks!

 

Wasnt trying to get digs in, actually tried to help by suggesting to offload this one for one with a warranty. Isnt financing $10k (probably what youd need to pay in addition to this tradein for a warrantied s600) better than spending $10k on parts PLUS hundreds of hours of labor?

Of course we could all benefit by seeing another detailed s600 restoration thread. That would be great if you could do a detailed thread

 

I checked out your profile and it didn't say, but if you are sorta close to the LA / San Bernadino / San Diego area I would be happy to assist where I can. No I don't have any special experience with these cars, but I do have 2 hands and a mechanic background....

Cheers, Brandon

 

It's not that you're an idiot... you're human. Most of us get spouses the same way - we're smitten by (fill in here your respective human drive here) and make the plunge thinking it's gonna be great. Then reality sets in along with honey-do lists, romantic comedies, quiche, etc.! And truth be told, all of us - every swinging' dink on this forum - has at one time or another acquired something that they really, REALLY wanted, but later had second thoughts. It happens. But after the work and sweat and tears - and cash - you will have an exceptional car that gives you tremendous bragging rights. And hopefully low 1/4-mile times. So, look to the future and tell all the naysayers to 'Bug off'! And remember, you ARE in great company acquiring a great car that needs a little love. I know, I own one.
Cheers,
Jeff

 

Typically I'd agree, but in this case, I'm not so sure.

Unless this is a special car in some way (fully loaded, designo, etc), there comes a point where the cost benefit doesn't make sense.

Lets say he gets $10k for this car as is. With that $22k, he could end up with a newer lower mileage car. Will that car run into issues too at some point? most likely. But I would be plenty pissed to drop that much money into an older high mile car.

I guess my point is that these aren't bugati royales and at some point abandoning ship just makes more sense.

 

No matter which way you decide to go, fix yourself or sell it, none of us are here to take chep shots.... Some of us just happen to get a 600 with a "few" less issues than another.
We're behind you bro. when you need to post up questions or looking for direction, I am certain many of us will do what we can to help.....although it sounds like you have the compententcy to handle most of the work needed by yourself.
Just like Jeff said, look at this as a labor of love project.

-Chris

 

Your assumption here is that Keith has a total of $32k (cash) right now to buy a car. Don't know for certain but probably not the case. Therefore, spreading the $22k over time may be a more viable option for him. A disappointing one, no doubt.

By the same measure, Keith's car is not a Yugo, either. American hot rodders sink far more money into their car than it will ever fetch in the marketplace. Most post-WW2 MB restorations cost way more than the car is worth. So why do people do them? Because they love the car, for whatever reason. If you look at every single car as strictly an investment, gains and losses, then it's just transportation; no feeling. I'm not sure that's the case here. Yes, more moola than Keith wanted to spend, long-term.
Cheers,
Jeff

 

Well, it didn't need to be cash and loans for cars are easier and cheaper to get than personal loans, but i see your point.

Its not about yugo or dollar amounts really. Hot rodders and old MB restorations are sort of a different situation than a guy just trying to get his late model car to run/drive the way it should.

I guess I don't get very emotional about cars. I like my 220 and pcar but I don't love them or any car. I don't mind spending money on them because I enjoy them, but if I had to drop $22k on my s500, I would very quickly be looking at S550s on ebay.

If Keith truly loves this car an intends to keep it for another 10 years, he should go ahead with the repairs. It just seems like everytime I hear someone say "I'm going to keep it forever" its usually up for sale within 5 years, and that messes with the value proposition.

Also, while I applaud his efforts on trying to DIY, I'm not sure learning on a V12TT benz is the way to do it.

 

When I saw the last of items I wasn't surprised it was that much but still, ouch. Makes me thankful for my warranty, even though it has only saved me $80 in the last 2.5yrs!

 

Keith,

Like everyone else, I feel sorry to hear so many issue surfaced.
But I believe you can handle it and enjoy this project. Don't worry about this is a super car, you have more than enough skills and knowledge to work on it. Plus we are standing behind you.

I love cars and I enjoy working on my S600. There is no way it won't be a wonderful car as I'm taking care of it by myself. Like Jeff mentioned, there is love between man and car.
What's the meaning for a man come to this world ? Spend time to learn, to understand, to take care something you really love.
Compare with spending endless time surfing internet I'd like to dive into my cars. At least I will improve my skills. It's an achivement. Plus I feel much more confidence driving my cars then let other maintain them. It's true, no one will really care about your car than yourself.

By the way, don't be scared by the dealer. They make money by adding stuff into your list. I suggest your list all the problems and prioritize them regarding safety and severity.
I don't believe all issue need to be treated immediately. For example spark plugs are due but maybe run fine for another 10K. Don't worry about them and the coil until you get misfire. Just remember treating them later.
To reduce the cost, you will spend much less by DIY. For example if you let the dealer to change spark plugs, most of the time they will replace your coil as well. Why, the coil tubes tend to split after years, the dealer will ask for $1500 to replace it as it's hard to be put back. But for DIY, you just need to use stainless wire to tied it to close then they are good to be put back, no cost.

I do suggest you to buy a Star C3 or C4. Without Star, EPC or WIS you are blind working on this car. Try www.aliexpress.com
Product just like this: http://www.aliexpress.com/product-gs...olesalers.html
Small investment but help you alot and open a new way to see your car.

Anyway, any questions just let us know. You do need to spend time on it but our experience will make it easier.

Thanks.

Howard

 

Sorry to hear it.

I would, before you undertake this project, bring the car to a couple of places for trade-in appraisal. See what they will pay for it in cash.

Then take the list of needed repairs, and as Howard suggests, make a list of what short-term repairs are required now and their cost. Only go out one year, as any other car you buy will need repairs after a year anyway.

Then take trade-in price, add repair cost, and see about getting a different car that you get inspected in advance and/or with a warranty.

Just do the math before taking the plunge one way or the other. I'm all for not having car payments, but not if it's gonna bankrupt me!

Bruce

 

I knew that of all the people on this forum Howard would definitely understand (OMG Howard, I can't believe you did your rust rehab on your own!). I am glad to have Jeff on my side here also. While I certainly do NOT have another $22K waiting to be spent on this car (yes, I DO have that much cash on hand but I have better things to spend it on than dropping it all on a car that I JUST spent $20K to acquire), I do have a love for cars in general and the S600 in particular. I also appreciate Bruce's attempts to help but I think I can get this done on my own. I have made my bed and will lay in it.

Despite Oliver's assertion that I am cutting my teeth on a V12TT, I do have a lot of previous experience turning a wrench, just not a lot recently. For the past 15 years or so I have appreciated being able to hire someone else to get grease under their fingernails. I guess I could wear gloves while working on this one, right? I also believe that I can get all of this done for between $4K and $8K, depending on a few variables (such as whether or not I can get the coil packs off in one piece).

Very generous offer from Brandon, also. Yes, I am in your area, Brandon, since I am near Lake Perris. If I run into any trouble or need someone with a bit of experience with a wrench I may call on you for help. Maybe you could PM me with your contact info? I will probably not even begin this project until May-June, though.

Everyone here is very supportive and I appreciate that. If I need anything you all will be the first to know.

Keith

 

just about everything you listed can be managed on your own,IMO start with the mounts to get the drive train back where it should be. that list isnt all that bad, nothing catastrophic internal. i have never done an ABC pump but anything hydraulic with a valve block requires trauma room cleanliness, flushing and experience. you might be able to get it done with this forum. get the "STAR SERVICE" DVD and youll be on your way to success!. thanks for not feeling "taken" or ripped off or worse yet the dreaded "how could a MB of this calabur need so many repairs". you havent whimpered once!.

 

Unfortunately, I think the ABC pump is the most expensive and highest priority item I listed. I am going to give it a go when I have a chance. I know there will be setbacks but I am sure I can lean on all of you good folks for advice and direction. Some sage advice given already and I will definitely get the STAR diagnostic computer and the DVD as you suggest. I think the ABC pump and the torn intake manifold at the throttle body should be the first things attempted. One is critical to keeping the car road worthy and the other is part of the emission system and could cause problems with the catalytic convertors if not attended to quickly. However, chances are I will try to tackle all at once since I will have everything torn apart. I would rather not have to take everything down more than once. I will just keep it garaged as I work until I can complete everything.

I do have to admit that I do feel a little bit sorry for myself. I hate that this happened to me, especially after I so vehemently admonished Howard to run away from his car. But I am going to take it in stride because I am looking forward to undertaking this project and getting the car back to running condition. I am sure I will appreciate the car even more (if that's possible) after digging deep into the mechanicals and cleaning up the mess that was left for me.

Right Howard?

Keith

 

Keith-

I wholeheartedly applaud your perseverance and will, and like was said - that you hadn't bellyached once about it (impressive, I'd have vomited repeatedly by now).

Though I'm with Bruce and others - as much as you'll learn from doing it, etc., you will spend the same (or less!) doughrayme on selling and re-casting on something else. That is simply math simple reality, no matter how you slice it.

There'd have to be that extra 'something' special about that particular example to justify staying with it and seeing it through. I don't see it.

Regardless, I do wish you best of luck in your endeavor and look forward to your updates... as I know you're plodding along full steam ahead, regardless 8-).


ps. the bank acct reference was... a bit 'odd' 8-)

 

Yes, Keith.

The best feeling is you know your car in and out.

I think there is no expensive part broken yet. ABC pumb maybe.
Do need labor alot. And there are chanllenges, for example changing the engine mount. If you can't access the three upper bolts you may need to pull engine much higher (I try not to say pull engine out).

And don't feel sorry. Actually I believe many S600 have a long list of issues but the owner won't know it until it's hooked to DAS and checked thoroughly.

Found issues is not a bad thing. This is a chance to make the car better. This is better than you think it's perfect then it failed on the highway or even cause safety problem.

Anyway S600 is a great car. Not so many cars in the world worth you working on. My neighbours enjoy seeing and talking with me about my S600. They are even amazed to see I take it apart. Seldom people have the chance.
Finally you will be proudly to say I know S600 because I bring mine to a new life.

But beyond anything, as I repeatly told my friends, safety first.
Release the pressure in the ABC system before working on it.
And this S600 is a heavy car without regular jack point. Please play it very safe. Any doubt jacking the car ask me first.

Thanks.

Howard

 

When I saw that amount I almost died. But your attitude is wonderful. Thank you, it makes my little issues seem petty. Post like this gives me hope that we will keep the content flowing.