Multiple Misc Problems - related???
Thread Starter
Member
Joined: Oct 2009
Posts: 79
Likes: 5
From: Long Island, NY
‘03 MB S600; ‘07 Saab Aero conv; ‘65 Vette; ‘66 vette; ‘05 BMW Z4
Multiple Misc Problems - related???
Sorry if this information already exists - I've searched the forum but haven't found exactly what I'm looking for...
My 2003 S600 (52k) was broken into about 2 months ago. Whoever did the deed got away with about $3 in change, but also did about $1100 in damage by prying the glovebox and breaking other parts of the console/wood trim.
The car sat for 3-4 weeks while I negotiated a settlement with the insurance company. The battery was previously low - and I suspected it would need a jump when I finally brought it to the dealer, but it didn't. I drove it in with no code or warnings. The dealer did the repairs. On the drive home, i had both an ABC failure and SRS light. Over the next few days, both came and went, and I had read that low batteries would throw codes, so I assumed this was the issue. Eventually they both stayed for good. Took the car to my non-dealer mechanic. He said the battery was fine, it needed the SRS mat replaced on the passenger side, and a new ABC pump. Total cost about $2300 (included a rebuilt pump that I sourced elsewhere).
When I picked the car up - no codes, but heard a gurgling sound behind the dash. Read up on this and it seems to be common - but I'd never heard it before. It was quite noticeable. Drove the car about 200 miles, and the next day, while the car was idling, blew a radiator hose.
Curious if anyone has an opinion on whether this is simply a string of bad luck, or ? The gurgling sounded too close to the dash to be related to the radiator hose, but maybe it was related (?). Any other ideas/comments would be appreciated.
Thanks
My 2003 S600 (52k) was broken into about 2 months ago. Whoever did the deed got away with about $3 in change, but also did about $1100 in damage by prying the glovebox and breaking other parts of the console/wood trim.
The car sat for 3-4 weeks while I negotiated a settlement with the insurance company. The battery was previously low - and I suspected it would need a jump when I finally brought it to the dealer, but it didn't. I drove it in with no code or warnings. The dealer did the repairs. On the drive home, i had both an ABC failure and SRS light. Over the next few days, both came and went, and I had read that low batteries would throw codes, so I assumed this was the issue. Eventually they both stayed for good. Took the car to my non-dealer mechanic. He said the battery was fine, it needed the SRS mat replaced on the passenger side, and a new ABC pump. Total cost about $2300 (included a rebuilt pump that I sourced elsewhere).
When I picked the car up - no codes, but heard a gurgling sound behind the dash. Read up on this and it seems to be common - but I'd never heard it before. It was quite noticeable. Drove the car about 200 miles, and the next day, while the car was idling, blew a radiator hose.
Curious if anyone has an opinion on whether this is simply a string of bad luck, or ? The gurgling sounded too close to the dash to be related to the radiator hose, but maybe it was related (?). Any other ideas/comments would be appreciated.
Thanks
Member
Joined: Nov 2011
Posts: 181
Likes: 4
S600
I, coincidentally, am going through just about the same issues at this point. My ABC pump went bad and the car sat all summer while I was finishing my degree and traveling around. I finally got around to fixing the ABC (did the job myself
) and when I finished it needed a new battery. I got it going again and I sprang a leak in the cooling system on the maiden voyage. I also got the SRS light and need the sensor mat replaced on the passenger seat.
If you got a quote to do the ABC and mat and the total cost is $2300 I would jump on that. However, you need to make sure that they are pricing it correctly. I got a quote of $2700 just to replace the ABC tandem pump from three different indy MB mechanics in my area. The part alone was $1700. One of them quoted $1700 on the phone but when I got it to their shop they realized that the program they use for estimating defaults to the S500 and they had given me the price for the S500 not the S600.
Also, are you sure it was a hose that blew? It is very common on the S600 that the upper hose fitting on the radiator (plastic fitting on the driver's side) springs a leak. Is the water leaking from the area where the large hose comes from the top of the front of the engine and meets the radiator? If so, you may need a new radiator. I know of a couple of other members of the forum with the S600 that had the same problem. It also made a gurgling sound when it blew due to air getting into the system before it got hot and pressurized.
I think it is a string of bad luck but not so uncommon as the affected parts are all very common failures on this vehicle.
Wishing you (and me
) better luck in the new year,
Keith
) and when I finished it needed a new battery. I got it going again and I sprang a leak in the cooling system on the maiden voyage. I also got the SRS light and need the sensor mat replaced on the passenger seat. If you got a quote to do the ABC and mat and the total cost is $2300 I would jump on that. However, you need to make sure that they are pricing it correctly. I got a quote of $2700 just to replace the ABC tandem pump from three different indy MB mechanics in my area. The part alone was $1700. One of them quoted $1700 on the phone but when I got it to their shop they realized that the program they use for estimating defaults to the S500 and they had given me the price for the S500 not the S600.
Also, are you sure it was a hose that blew? It is very common on the S600 that the upper hose fitting on the radiator (plastic fitting on the driver's side) springs a leak. Is the water leaking from the area where the large hose comes from the top of the front of the engine and meets the radiator? If so, you may need a new radiator. I know of a couple of other members of the forum with the S600 that had the same problem. It also made a gurgling sound when it blew due to air getting into the system before it got hot and pressurized.
I think it is a string of bad luck but not so uncommon as the affected parts are all very common failures on this vehicle.
Wishing you (and me
) better luck in the new year,Keith
Thread Starter
Member
Joined: Oct 2009
Posts: 79
Likes: 5
From: Long Island, NY
‘03 MB S600; ‘07 Saab Aero conv; ‘65 Vette; ‘66 vette; ‘05 BMW Z4
Keith
Sorry you are experiencing the same headaches, though I admit I still LOVE this car.
Re. the ABC pump - I purchased a rebuilt one from Invasion Auto for $750 (refund of $100 if I send back the old core). My mechanic sourced an OEM SRS mat and installed it AND replaced the ABC pump for $1600 labor.
Re. the radiator hose - it is the hose you mentioned - top hose on the driver side. From what I could see (the engine was hot and the coolant spraying everywhere which made it hard to tell), it looked like it was the hose right at the turn where it connects to the radiator. Not at the radiator connection, but about 3" before. I dropped the car at the mechanic at 7am this morning - will update when he calls.
Best of luck with your car -
B
Sorry you are experiencing the same headaches, though I admit I still LOVE this car.
Re. the ABC pump - I purchased a rebuilt one from Invasion Auto for $750 (refund of $100 if I send back the old core). My mechanic sourced an OEM SRS mat and installed it AND replaced the ABC pump for $1600 labor.
Re. the radiator hose - it is the hose you mentioned - top hose on the driver side. From what I could see (the engine was hot and the coolant spraying everywhere which made it hard to tell), it looked like it was the hose right at the turn where it connects to the radiator. Not at the radiator connection, but about 3" before. I dropped the car at the mechanic at 7am this morning - will update when he calls.
Best of luck with your car -
B
Member
Joined: Nov 2011
Posts: 181
Likes: 4
S600
I went the same route with my ABC, Bill. Found a rebuilt one in San Diego for $685 with a $100 core charge. Changed it myself for $0.
It SOUNDS like you have the same leak many of us S600 owners have experienced. There are 3 smaller hydraulic hoses above the connection where the leak is so it is difficult to see exactly where the coolant is spraying from. I had to use a small mirror to see under the hoses and it still looked like it was coming from the hose but it was definitely spraying from fore to aft. Even after getting the radiator out of the car I could not see where it was leaking from but the hose and plastic fitting were intact and the new radiator stopped the leak.
I would not be surprised if you heard back from your mechanic with a recommendation for a new radiator.
And I, too, LOVE this car....
Keith
It SOUNDS like you have the same leak many of us S600 owners have experienced. There are 3 smaller hydraulic hoses above the connection where the leak is so it is difficult to see exactly where the coolant is spraying from. I had to use a small mirror to see under the hoses and it still looked like it was coming from the hose but it was definitely spraying from fore to aft. Even after getting the radiator out of the car I could not see where it was leaking from but the hose and plastic fitting were intact and the new radiator stopped the leak.
I would not be surprised if you heard back from your mechanic with a recommendation for a new radiator.
And I, too, LOVE this car....
Keith
Thread Starter
Member
Joined: Oct 2009
Posts: 79
Likes: 5
From: Long Island, NY
‘03 MB S600; ‘07 Saab Aero conv; ‘65 Vette; ‘66 vette; ‘05 BMW Z4
Still not resolved, but here's the update...
I dropped the car at my non-MB mechanic - works on my BMW and SAAB. He's within walking distance of the train station and i figured it was a simple hose replacement. He called later in the day - not sure what he really did, but said the hose was shot and it was backordered and would be a few days.
The next morning by chance I came across the receipt from the ABC pump replacement done a week earlier, and it included a gallon of antifreeze in the parts listing. I got on the phone with him right away, and he said yes, the hose is typically removed to enable access. He said there's an o-ring that may not have been seated properly, which could have caused the leak. He said he would source a hose, and work it out with the other mechanic to replace the hose and take care of the work at no charge.
I didn't hear anything today, so I'll stop by and see where we are tomorrow. I'm hoping it doesn't turn out to be the radiator or something more than the hose, since the hose is getting replaced for free.
Reason for the post is to highlight that yes, the hose may have been related to the ABC pump replacement after-all.
I dropped the car at my non-MB mechanic - works on my BMW and SAAB. He's within walking distance of the train station and i figured it was a simple hose replacement. He called later in the day - not sure what he really did, but said the hose was shot and it was backordered and would be a few days.
The next morning by chance I came across the receipt from the ABC pump replacement done a week earlier, and it included a gallon of antifreeze in the parts listing. I got on the phone with him right away, and he said yes, the hose is typically removed to enable access. He said there's an o-ring that may not have been seated properly, which could have caused the leak. He said he would source a hose, and work it out with the other mechanic to replace the hose and take care of the work at no charge.
I didn't hear anything today, so I'll stop by and see where we are tomorrow. I'm hoping it doesn't turn out to be the radiator or something more than the hose, since the hose is getting replaced for free.
Reason for the post is to highlight that yes, the hose may have been related to the ABC pump replacement after-all.
Member
Joined: Nov 2011
Posts: 181
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S600
I had also hoped that was the problem when mine went also, Bill. It sure seemed like the logical fix since the hose attaches to a plastic piece and the plastic piece is the part that attaches to the connection on the radiator. There is NO compression on the attachment to the radiator, just a large O-ring inside the plastic connection. It hardly seems like a secure connection when you see how it goes together with the full knowledge that this is a seal of a pressurized system. I was SURE that the leak was there but it was no dice. If you get a little dental-style mirror you can see the spray coming from the plastic part of the radiator near the connection and not from the connection itself. The kicker is the leak is spraying towards the rear of the car and the connection faces forward. If the O-ring were leaking the spray would be spraying forwards. There were a few others on the forum who had the same leak. Even after removing the radiator and looking up close and personal at the area of the leak I could not see a break in the plastic. Once I got the new radiator in it was GTG.
Like I said, there is a small ray of hope that the O-ring is the issue with yours but be prepared for a new radiator if that does not work out. Wish you luck sir,
Keith
Like I said, there is a small ray of hope that the O-ring is the issue with yours but be prepared for a new radiator if that does not work out. Wish you luck sir,
Keith
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Thread Starter
Member
Joined: Oct 2009
Posts: 79
Likes: 5
From: Long Island, NY
‘03 MB S600; ‘07 Saab Aero conv; ‘65 Vette; ‘66 vette; ‘05 BMW Z4
Just to close this out... hose replaced w/new o-ring, and so far the car seems good to go. When I took it in it was spraying like a garden hose. So far no leak, so I guess I got lucky (for once). I suspect when my MB mechanic installed the ABC pump he damaged the o-ring upon reinstallation of the radiator hose.
Once again, thanks to Forum members for their insight and knowledge. Although it didn't turn out to be the radiator, at least I was prepared for the worst if it had been!
Once again, thanks to Forum members for their insight and knowledge. Although it didn't turn out to be the radiator, at least I was prepared for the worst if it had been!
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Thread Starter
Member
Joined: Oct 2009
Posts: 79
Likes: 5
From: Long Island, NY
‘03 MB S600; ‘07 Saab Aero conv; ‘65 Vette; ‘66 vette; ‘05 BMW Z4
I should have known better...
Well, seems Keith was right after all. A few days later I rec'd a "check coolant" malfunction. Added antifreeze 2x before I realized that I was in complete denial and that the o-ring/hose didn't do the trick. Brought it back to my mechanic. His diagnosis is that the radiator plastic isn't cracked, it's out of round. My guess is that it's cracked and he can't see the crack. In any event, he quoted me $750 for parts and labor - which includes a new radiator from MB (includes his -20% discount). Not a bad price, so the car goes back Monday.
After the shifter-lock, SRS mat, ABC pump, (2) ABC hoses, and now the radiator, I'm starting to think it's time to put her up for sale.
After the shifter-lock, SRS mat, ABC pump, (2) ABC hoses, and now the radiator, I'm starting to think it's time to put her up for sale.
Member
Joined: Nov 2011
Posts: 181
Likes: 4
S600
Saw the for sale thread you started. I think you are correct on the leak. The plastic is a very brittle type of material and I just don't see it going out of round. There is more likely a hairline crack in there somewhere. $750 is ridiculously low for the job. I would jump on that if I were you. I paid $600 just for the aftermarket part and it is a tricky fix although not all that diffiicult. The dealer wanted $1400. I'd go for it if I were you.
K
K
Junior Member
Joined: Dec 2013
Posts: 20
Likes: 1
From: Chicago
W220 S600
Hey Guys, Bill, Keith, your situation is identical to mine. Replaced the o-ring to no avail. I'm looking for a decent DIY to replace the radiator before jumping in, couldn't find one. I have the workshop manual disk for the car but it requires a password of some sort to get access. Any suggestions?
Member
Joined: Nov 2011
Posts: 181
Likes: 4
S600
I just jumped on in Andrew. If you are mechanically inclined at all you can do the job yourself. I, also, had purchased the repair manuals/code readers etc on a hard drive from a company in China. I had a myriad of issues trying to install it on my laptop so I gave up.
One day I just opened the hood and removed the panels from under the engine, emptied the coolant, and started pulling stuff off. It was about a 2-3 hour job IIRC but that was a LONG time ago now. I seem to recall there was one part that was a bit tricky that took me a while to resolve but it has been so long that it is hard to remember now.
I THINK the troublesome area was detaching and reattaching the resting water circulating pump. It circulates hot water through the heater core if the engine is not running to keep the inside of the car warm if the engine is off. It is located on the passenger side of the radiator at the bottom and is a pain to reach.
Wish I could be of more help but like I said, it was over 2 years ago now. Good luck, sir...
One day I just opened the hood and removed the panels from under the engine, emptied the coolant, and started pulling stuff off. It was about a 2-3 hour job IIRC but that was a LONG time ago now. I seem to recall there was one part that was a bit tricky that took me a while to resolve but it has been so long that it is hard to remember now.
I THINK the troublesome area was detaching and reattaching the resting water circulating pump. It circulates hot water through the heater core if the engine is not running to keep the inside of the car warm if the engine is off. It is located on the passenger side of the radiator at the bottom and is a pain to reach.
Wish I could be of more help but like I said, it was over 2 years ago now. Good luck, sir...
Junior Member
Joined: Dec 2013
Posts: 20
Likes: 1
From: Chicago
W220 S600
Keith, thanks for jumping back in on this 2 years later! Much appreciated.
Welwynnick gave a very solid step by step here....
https://mbworld.org/forums/s-class-w...placement.html
Welwynnick gave a very solid step by step here....
https://mbworld.org/forums/s-class-w...placement.html
