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I couldn't help taking a few pictures when I got to work this morning, but I couldn't upload them to Photobucket today for some reason.
MBW to the rescue.
The tyres are the same size as the 19x9.5's, so they look a bit small and stretched on the 20x10's. I was happy with both the 9.5 wheels I tried, but the 10's do look a bit too big.
Over the last week, I've spent a lot of time simply looking at the AMG ML63 wheels, and trying to decide if I prefer them to my old twin spokes. The latter were cheap, and the ML wheels are worth a bomb - I thought they were all I was looking for, but I can't say that I'm glad I got them now. I went back to 4 x 9.5", and was glad I did.
I think the problem with the 20x10's is that 275 tires are too narrow. I kind of knew that all along, but subjectively I just can't along with them.
Of course the solution could be to move up to 285/30's. I think they would work fine on the rear, but I'm not confident about the front. I really want the same wheels and tyres all round, but I think 275-40-18 or 275-35-19 or 275-30-20 is the only size to fit.
Decisions, decisions....
Nick
Last edited by Welwynnick; 09-18-2015 at 11:08 AM.
One final comment on having 275's all round. I don't know if I wrote this before, but one observation with the large tires is that the ABC Sport button makes more difference to the handling than with stock tires.
My first S600N/A had 225/55/17 tires all round, and they didn't really give the ABC enough work to do to make it seem valuable. There was little scope for leaning on the suspension.
My second S600N/A had 245/45/18 all round, and that was a very happy compromise. It was still comfortable, but had enough grip to give ABC something to do. However, the ABC sport button only made a subtle difference to the ride or handling.
With 275/35/19 on my S600TT, there's another big step forwards in grip, though ride suffers. When I experimented with ABC sport, the standard setting seemed strangely soggy and uncontrolled, and the handling only came to life in sport setting. There was quite a big difference now.
The 275/30/20 behave the same. Come to think of it, so do the 265/40/18 on my black car - a surprising amount of body movement in the standard setting. In the sport setting, the car stays flat, and this is all the more apparent with the large front tires. The ride is lumpy though.
I had gotten used to using ABC sport all the time, as it made so little difference to anything. This week I tried falling back to standard setting on my way home from work (bumpy roads). As well as making more difference to handling, it also makes more difference to ride than with stock tires. But I had never noticed all year. In standard setting the ride was significantly smoother. I'm tempted to say much smoother, but I avoid exaggeration as a matter of course. Because I'm so familiar with the car I guess I notice small changes in anything, and I've never had any complaints about the ride from my passengers, even when prompted. Suffice it to say that it's a significantly better ride, and really quite acceptable for such extreme tires. That was a very pleasant surprise, and standard mode is my default setting.
It just means I have to work the ABC button to match the mood and the road, but that's no hardship considering what it delivers. I'm going to pick up some 285/30/20's tomorrow, so lets see what they do...
One size too far, I'm afraid. I was surprised at the difference.
The tires I bought were Dunlop SportMaxx, the older directional ones. Newer tires like the SportMaxx GT are asymmetric these days, and that's what I used on my 20x9.5 wheels. Like the Continentals and P Zeros, they're relatively narrow for their size, but the SportMaxx are wide tires. They look two sizes bigger than the Pirellis I already used. Maybe 275 Dunlops or 285 Pirellis would be OK. I guess they would be about the same size, but I'm not sure I want to go there any more. Its raining outside, and I think I might call it day. 275's all round is a great result.
Nick
Last edited by Welwynnick; 10-06-2015 at 08:04 AM.
It might not be over yet. Having fed the sprogs, I had a bit more time to play (in the rain). The 285 didn't fit the front, so I put it on the rear, and fitted a 275 on the front. Therefore I've now got 20x9.5's on the right hand side, and 20x10's on the left!
It was interesting to compare all the tires. The Sportmaxx 285's are much wider than any of the 275's, especially the Sportmaxx GT's, funnily enough. I took some quick measurements of the tread widths at something like the 45 degree tangent of the sidewall, which is where the front tires are closest to the angled section of the front suspension upright.
Sportmaxx 285 ...... 280mm
P Zero 275 ............ 260mm
Sportmaxx 275 ...... 260mm
Sportmaxx GT 265 . 255mm
There's something funny going on with those Sportmaxx's. In the tire shop today they commented that part of the reason tires were going asymmetric was to reduce noise. I've never been that impressed by any directional tires (as if I was a tire expert) but I've been very impressed with the asymmetric Conti Sportcontact3, P zero and Sportmaxx GT. I expect the Michelin Pilot Supersports would be good, too. Maybe I'll try a pair of Sportmaxx 275's at the front, but I think I'd prefer some Sportmaxx GT 285's. Maybe 285's DO fit at the front!
It's late now, but I'll take some pictures tomorrow. You'll never believe the difference.
Suddenly got interesting again.
Nick
Edit:
Everybody wants pictures.
I think the 9.5" twin spokes look brilliant on my car:
But the AMG ML63 wheels look great too.
20x10 front & rear!
But here's the thing - the older Sportmaxx 285's are fully 20mm wider than the newer Sportmaxx GT's:
As it happens, the big 285's fit just fine at the rear. I parked it on a kerb so the wheel was in the arch, then opened the trunk and bounced up and down on it. Nothing. Test drove beautifully too. The 285's can stay on the rear for now, even if I can only put 275's at the front (but we'll see about that...)
Last edited by Welwynnick; 10-07-2015 at 05:07 PM.
Sorry to bring up an old thread but what's everyone's thoughts on 20x9.5 ET46 wheels all around with 275/30R20 tires--will this be an issue on a w220 (2004) S500? Main concern here is the front. Is 275 a good size for 9.5" wheels (dont want staggered) or is a smaller size better?
275/30/20 is definitely the right size for 20 x 9.5 wheels, and the ET should be good. A wider tire or a taller profile or a larger offset won't fit.
It's not a definitive answer, because actual fitting will depend on what brand of tire you use - they differ in size to a surprising extent. It will be a close fit, but it's what I would do myself.
Having said that, I've only tried fitting 265 and 275 tires on the front with cars with ABC suspension. How it would work out with Airmatic I'm not so sure. There's a possibility you would get rubbing on tight, bumpy corners.
275/30/20 is definitely the right size for 20 x 9.5 wheels, and the ET should be good. A wider tire or a taller profile or a larger offset won't fit.
It's not a definitive answer, because actual fitting will depend on what brand of tire you use - they differ in size to a surprising extent. It will be a close fit, but it's what I would do myself.
Having said that, I've only tried fitting 265 and 275 tires on the front with cars with ABC suspension. How it would work out with Airmatic I'm not so sure. There's a possibility you would get rubbing on tight, bumpy corners.
Nick
Thanks for the quick reply. Definitely want to upgrade the wheels that came with my car (18" AMG220s). I'm already running 275/40/18 in the back which are 9.5" so maybe I'll try and put them on the front just to see how they fit...
I can't organise myself properly, and by unfortunate circumstance I have TWO near identical S600TT cars. Despite having a very wide range of wheels & tires, I have 275/30/20 fitted to both of them, and would only consider another configuration if I had to do a lot of local or town driving. I can't reco0mmend it highly enough, but I have a hard time convincing other sceptics who think Mercedes know best.
Nick
Last edited by Welwynnick; 05-10-2017 at 04:11 PM.
I can't organise myself properly, and by unfortunate circumstance I have TWO near identical S600TT cars. Despite having a very wide range of wheels & tires, I have 275/30/20 fitted to both of them, and would only consider another configuration if I had to do a lot of local or town driving. I can't reco0mmend it highly enough, but I have a hard convincing other sceptics who think Mercedes know best.
Nick
Cool! So you have 9.5 or 10 inch wheels w/ the 275/30/20 setup all around? Also what are the offets? Any pics?
Yes, the silver car has 9.5" / ET40, and occasionally rubs on the outside.
The black car has 10" / ET46 and occasionally rubs on the inside.
Therefore ET40 is a bit too low, and 10" is a bit too wide.
I tried fitting the 10's to the silver car, and they just didn't look right.
I think 9.5" / ET43 would be perfect all round. I think I have few pics:.....
Here are 275/35 on 19x9.5 F&R (I think they're the sweet-spot):
This was 265/35 on 20x9.5. They looked great, but fouled the wheel-arches.
Last edited by Welwynnick; 05-10-2017 at 05:30 PM.
Thanks for these pics Nick, and all the work swapping wheels. My S600 came on staggered 20's, and when the tires are worn out, I think I'm going down to non staggered 19s. I'd like more rubber, with a more compliant ride. On your 19's, do you think you could get away with 275/40s, or is 35 section all you have room for?
Nick, I am curious if you tried 275-35-19's on the front of your S600. I had 255-40-19's on my S65 and they rubbed slightly at full lock. Very audible inside the car. The diameter is 27", I had them on the factory wheels with 44mm offset. The 275-35 has a diameter of 26.6", 2/10" smaller radius. Even after my tires were at half tread depth they still rubbed; half of the tread depth was more than 2/10" of wear. I would think to fit a 275-35 rather than a 275-30 a different wheel offset would be needed.
Looking back, it appears that I've been running 275's all round for two years, but it's only in the last few weeks that I've been able to compare 9.5" and 10" wheels back-to-back, as I've always had one problem or another with my cars. Both are now running beautifully, having fixed all the faults, and done some detail work on tires, brakes, bushes and ball-joints. ABC aside, its complicated suspension, and everything has to work just right. Fitting new front track control arms, lower ball joints and upper strut bushes to both cars made them smooth and tight.
I also put a full set of 265/40 on 18x9's on the black car, and that was a great set-up. It didn't feel that much different to the 20's. The ride was pretty firm, but took the edge of most bumps, and grip was very good - close to 20's. It was a very god compromise, perhaps the best of all the configurations, though road noise wasn't great. I ran Goodyears all round, and they weren't as quiet as Continentals or Dunlops. The ride was noticeably firmer with 265/40 on 9" rims, than it was with the same tires on 8" rims. The latter were really quite absorbent.
That mirrored the difference between 9.5" and 10", when running 275/30. The wider the wheel, the harsher the ride (for the same tire). It felt like it was worth the same ride penalty as going up a size in diameter - quite a big difference. So there's a hierarchy of handling and ride:
1. 245/45/18x8
2. 265/40/18x8
3. 265/40/18x9
4. 275/35/19x9.5
5. 275/30/20x9.5
6. 275/30/20x10
#2 was very comfortable indeed, but still gripped well, in a sort of aloof way.
Going from 275 to 285 at the back made very little difference.
The comparison between #5 and #6 is fascinating, as it makes a significant difference. #6 feels firmer, but handles better - really well in fact. It feels like a well-sorted sports saloon, rather than a heavy luxo-barge. Good steering, too.
The final observation is that the balance isn't upset by going square. For all those that thought staggered was good, I can report that the square configuration still understeers, but only slightly, so I think it's how it should be. Although the Eurocharged silver car on 9.5's is smoother and faster, the black car on 10's is really special to drive.
Although this is the W220 forum, I've been wondering for some time whether you can do the same thing with the W221, and I just found out the hard way.
The W221 has larger wheels and wheel arches than the W220. The staggered wheels models have typically 255-40-19 front and 275-40-19 rear. the latter are particularly large diameter, and definitely don't fit the front of a w220. That was frustrating, as I really wanted to fit 35 profile tires all around, and square 19" wheels were non-existent and 20's had to use 30 profiles, with their unforgiving sidewalls.
What about the W221 though? I hoped it might be possible to fit 275/35/20 all round, and it wasn't until I finally bought a W221 S600 last week that I found out (it was the first thing I did). The answer is that they fit fine, and I'm very happy about it!
Bless you for trying all the combinations and posting your results. I'm fitting my 2005 S55 AMG with Michelin Pilot AS 3+ all around after burning a set of Continentals off very quickly; specifically on the inside tread of all 4 tires to the point of bare threads - this despite the outer edges having a reasonable amount of tread left. As soon as put the new tires on, it will be up on the alignment rack to see what's up.
My search uncovered that Michelin has decided not to make the stock rear 265/40ZR18 in an all season tire, although they do still make the front 245/45ZR18. Thus I found your encyclopedia of fitment experiences. I've searched a bit for rear rims to no avail, hoping to go square all around, but time constraints have led to ordering 245/45ZR18 Mich Pilot AS 3+ for the front and 275/40ZR18 for the rear. Although I doubt I'll enjoy any of the improvement you describe, my biggest caution is potential impact to onboard systems. My mechanic has warned me that the traction control may not care for the change in revolutions from the extra 10MM as well as potential ABS challenges. I'm wondering if you experienced any issues in all of your experimentation? As an aside, I also noted on the Michelin site, buried in the fine print, that they cut the mileage warranty in half for cars with staggered set-ups - which is yet another compelling reason to go square.
09-11-2015, 01:16 PM
its been a couple years since you started this thread, curious to know, what is your current setup and have you done anymore experimentation?
