New s600 owner ! Some issues I need help with
12-30-2016, 07:06 AM
#1
MBWorld Fanatic!
Thread Starter
New s600 owner ! Some issues I need help with
Hi there
just picked up a 2003 600 Mercedes bi turbo in California , it seems to run strong but if I floor the acceleration all the way , the check engine light cones on , the car goes into limp mode and i have to pull over and restart the car for normal acceleration to resume
i think I've seen this issue mentioned before but can't recall ? Is it the coil packs , ignition transformer, transmission conductor plate , ecu , accelerator pedal ?? Or something else ?
I get the following codes when the check engine light comes on:
p0335 crankshaft position sensor
p0122 throttle /pedal position sensor switch Alow
p0123 throttle /pedal position sensor switch A high
note the crank position sensor was replaced a few months ago
just picked up a 2003 600 Mercedes bi turbo in California , it seems to run strong but if I floor the acceleration all the way , the check engine light cones on , the car goes into limp mode and i have to pull over and restart the car for normal acceleration to resume
i think I've seen this issue mentioned before but can't recall ? Is it the coil packs , ignition transformer, transmission conductor plate , ecu , accelerator pedal ?? Or something else ?
I get the following codes when the check engine light comes on:
p0335 crankshaft position sensor
p0122 throttle /pedal position sensor switch Alow
p0123 throttle /pedal position sensor switch A high
note the crank position sensor was replaced a few months ago
12-31-2016, 05:38 AM
#2
MBWorld Fanatic!
Welcome to the club tusabes! I must say I'm pleasantly surprised after your tone of caution over these cars over the last few -er- thousand posts.
First of all, how are you reading the fault codes? SDS? OBD2 reader? If it's SDS you can read the variation of the throttle position in real time, and se if anything untoward is happening.
The common explanation for your symptoms is a weak coil pack, but that would throw a variety of individual cylinder misfire codes instead.
The conductor plate often causes problems, but again these are different problems - N1, N2 speed implausible etc.
It points towards the throttle pedal sensor. Do you get the fault ONLY when you go full throttle, or ONLY when you hit kickdown, or when you are near full throttle? Does it happen every time.
Nick
First of all, how are you reading the fault codes? SDS? OBD2 reader? If it's SDS you can read the variation of the throttle position in real time, and se if anything untoward is happening.
The common explanation for your symptoms is a weak coil pack, but that would throw a variety of individual cylinder misfire codes instead.
The conductor plate often causes problems, but again these are different problems - N1, N2 speed implausible etc.
It points towards the throttle pedal sensor. Do you get the fault ONLY when you go full throttle, or ONLY when you hit kickdown, or when you are near full throttle? Does it happen every time.
Nick
12-31-2016, 06:04 AM
#3
What a huge coincidence...
I was having the same exact problem for months until I fixed it just yesterday. Car would essentially turn into a brick when floored all the way to kickdown, and would accelerate VERY slowly until restarting the car which would resume normal operation.
I assumed it was the gas pedal as they go bad often on these cars. I was correct. I ordered a used gas pedal on ebay for $30 to test out if it was indeed the problem, and now the car behaves normally under any load, and seems a lot more responsive now.
Another thing you might want to check are the four MAP sensors sitting on top of the engine. I've had these go bad too, and produced similar results of poor acceleration that were fixed with new replacements.
Anyways, welcome to the TTV12 club! Buckle up, it's gunna be a bumpy ride...
I was having the same exact problem for months until I fixed it just yesterday. Car would essentially turn into a brick when floored all the way to kickdown, and would accelerate VERY slowly until restarting the car which would resume normal operation.
I assumed it was the gas pedal as they go bad often on these cars. I was correct. I ordered a used gas pedal on ebay for $30 to test out if it was indeed the problem, and now the car behaves normally under any load, and seems a lot more responsive now.
Another thing you might want to check are the four MAP sensors sitting on top of the engine. I've had these go bad too, and produced similar results of poor acceleration that were fixed with new replacements.
Anyways, welcome to the TTV12 club! Buckle up, it's gunna be a bumpy ride...
12-31-2016, 05:05 PM
#4
MBWorld Fanatic!
Thread Starter
Just Checking it with an obd2 scanner . Runs fine unless throttle is floored , then it will go into limp mode . Have to shut the car off and restart. Then it's normal again until you floor the throttle
Ive ordered a used pedal (I know should have gone new but let's see what happens )
yes I've been very apprehensive about getting a 600, in the last 18 months this car had over $15000 in repairs . Shifter stuck in park, leaky transmission connector cAusing fluid to enter tcu, busted abc hose , , crank position sensor , soft close door issue , power trunk lid issue etc. these cars can bankrupt you if yo to to a dealership for service
Ive ordered a used pedal (I know should have gone new but let's see what happens )
yes I've been very apprehensive about getting a 600, in the last 18 months this car had over $15000 in repairs . Shifter stuck in park, leaky transmission connector cAusing fluid to enter tcu, busted abc hose , , crank position sensor , soft close door issue , power trunk lid issue etc. these cars can bankrupt you if yo to to a dealership for service
12-31-2016, 06:12 PM
#5
Your symptoms are the exact same I was experiencing. It is definitely 100% the throttle position sensor. If you buy a used one, make sure it is listed as working and has at least a 30 day warranty in case it also happens to be faulty. I've put over 5k in repairs in mine so far over the past three years. Not so bad compared to everything else I hear about these cars... this excludes any ABC costs. I'm not willing to deal with ABC. I'm just not going to touch the system at all and hope it lasts long enough. If it fails, I'm converting it to strutmasters coilovers to have the peace of mind.
Everything else about this car is bulletproof and solid. Engine and tranny will go a million miles as long as it's cared for. It's just the electronics and ABC that is this car's weakness. Drivetrain is bulletproof. Good luck on your journey and don't hesitate to ask for help from other S600 owners.
Everything else about this car is bulletproof and solid. Engine and tranny will go a million miles as long as it's cared for. It's just the electronics and ABC that is this car's weakness. Drivetrain is bulletproof. Good luck on your journey and don't hesitate to ask for help from other S600 owners.
01-01-2017, 04:57 AM
#6
MBWorld Fanatic!
ABCcan be made reliable, but you do have to be proactive. It's only nuts and bolts, oil and rubber.
It needs regular inspection and maintenance, and you have to accept that Pentosin synthetic oil and steel-braided rubber hoses don't last the life of the car.
The things that are vulnerable include the four nitrogen-pressure accumulator spheres, and all the flexible hoses within the engine compartment. You can't just cross your fingers.
First thing is check the ABC oil level. Clean all around the reservoir first. With a cold, empty car, the level should be at the UPPER dipstick mark. However, with the engine running, it mustn't be below the LOWER mark. If it is, you will need to change one or more of the accumulator spheres. A failing accumulator "caves in" when pressurized - hence the low oil level when the engine is running. They're tight, but not too difficult or expensive.
Second thing is get underneath, remove ALL the plastic covers, and inspect all the ABC flexible hoses. They can be dirty and corroded, but they MUST be dry. The failure mechanism is that high temperatures and pressure cycling degrades the rubber in the crimp joints between the rigid and flexible sections. The advance warning of failure is that fluid seeps out of the joint.
Third, a whining noise like a worn transmission, only heard from inside, is an indicator of a failed accumulator. Remove the poly-V belt and start the engine. If the noise disappears when heard from inside with the engine running and the doors closed, that points towards the accumulator on the pressure regulator, at the rear of the right hand front wheel arch.
Fourth, the other common ABC problem is slowly sagging suspension at one corner or another. Remove the front or rear valve block, strip and clean it, and replace the O-rings. There's lots of internet info on this.
Nick
__________________
01-01-2017, 08:00 PM
#7
Please don't bury your head in the sand with ABC, or it will bite, and bite badly. It certainly IS DIY-maintainable, and more to the point, it does have to be maintained. Crossing your fingers and waiting for something to go wrong is ultimately a disastrous approach.
ABCcan be made reliable, but you do have to be proactive. It's only nuts and bolts, oil and rubber.
It needs regular inspection and maintenance, and you have to accept that Pentosin synthetic oil and steel-braided rubber hoses don't last the life of the car.
The things that are vulnerable include the four nitrogen-pressure accumulator spheres, and all the flexible hoses within the engine compartment. You can't just cross your fingers.
First thing is check the ABC oil level. Clean all around the reservoir first. With a cold, empty car, the level should be at the UPPER dipstick mark. However, with the engine running, it mustn't be below the LOWER mark. If it is, you will need to change one or more of the accumulator spheres. A failing accumulator "caves in" when pressurized - hence the low oil level when the engine is running. They're tight, but not too difficult or expensive.
Second thing is get underneath, remove ALL the plastic covers, and inspect all the ABC flexible hoses. They can be dirty and corroded, but they MUST be dry. The failure mechanism is that high temperatures and pressure cycling degrades the rubber in the crimp joints between the rigid and flexible sections. The advance warning of failure is that fluid seeps out of the joint.
Third, a whining noise like a worn transmission, only heard from inside, is an indicator of a failed accumulator. Remove the poly-V belt and start the engine. If the noise disappears when heard from inside with the engine running and the doors closed, that points towards the accumulator on the pressure regulator, at the rear of the right hand front wheel arch.
Fourth, the other common ABC problem is slowly sagging suspension at one corner or another. Remove the front or rear valve block, strip and clean it, and replace the O-rings. There's lots of internet info on this.
Nick
__________________
ABCcan be made reliable, but you do have to be proactive. It's only nuts and bolts, oil and rubber.
It needs regular inspection and maintenance, and you have to accept that Pentosin synthetic oil and steel-braided rubber hoses don't last the life of the car.
The things that are vulnerable include the four nitrogen-pressure accumulator spheres, and all the flexible hoses within the engine compartment. You can't just cross your fingers.
First thing is check the ABC oil level. Clean all around the reservoir first. With a cold, empty car, the level should be at the UPPER dipstick mark. However, with the engine running, it mustn't be below the LOWER mark. If it is, you will need to change one or more of the accumulator spheres. A failing accumulator "caves in" when pressurized - hence the low oil level when the engine is running. They're tight, but not too difficult or expensive.
Second thing is get underneath, remove ALL the plastic covers, and inspect all the ABC flexible hoses. They can be dirty and corroded, but they MUST be dry. The failure mechanism is that high temperatures and pressure cycling degrades the rubber in the crimp joints between the rigid and flexible sections. The advance warning of failure is that fluid seeps out of the joint.
Third, a whining noise like a worn transmission, only heard from inside, is an indicator of a failed accumulator. Remove the poly-V belt and start the engine. If the noise disappears when heard from inside with the engine running and the doors closed, that points towards the accumulator on the pressure regulator, at the rear of the right hand front wheel arch.
Fourth, the other common ABC problem is slowly sagging suspension at one corner or another. Remove the front or rear valve block, strip and clean it, and replace the O-rings. There's lots of internet info on this.
Nick
__________________
The ABC system is truly way ahead of it's time, but that is also its weakness. It was just to complex for the time it was produced. The newer models had been vastly improved and made more reliable, which is bound to happen to ANY new car technology that comes out. The first version always has issues, and it is improved from there on out. I just think it's too much of a hassle to constantly keep the ABC in ship-shape, and if I had a lot of free time on my hands I wouldn't mind doing DIY ABC work but that's just not the case for me. I use the car as a daily driver, so I need a system that I can rely on getting me to my destination every day without any problems or worries. Coilovers are perfect for that, a worry-free solution although there is a compromise of ride, but not a huge one at that from what I am hearing from people who have done the conversion.
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01-06-2017, 11:55 PM
#8
MBWorld Fanatic!
Thread Starter
It indeed was the accelerator pedal . Got a $35 used pedal from eBay and now I can floor it all day
still having an issue that often it will not fire on the first crank of the key, It will just keep cranking so I need to turn it off and on the second try it will fire .
That cps code above makes me suspect I still have a bad cps or maybe the connection is bad or maybe it was a cheap non oem cps they put in a few months ago
still having an issue that often it will not fire on the first crank of the key, It will just keep cranking so I need to turn it off and on the second try it will fire .
That cps code above makes me suspect I still have a bad cps or maybe the connection is bad or maybe it was a cheap non oem cps they put in a few months ago
01-07-2017, 05:48 AM
#9
Definitely something wrong with the CPS. I would check the connection, and if that's fine, go ahead and replace the CPS, don't hesitate. It happened to me too where my CPS failed out of nowhere and had me stuck and I had to have my car towed. You should replace it ASAP so that this won't happen to you too.
