EclassOzz

like the question says...used or brand new..doesnt matter..since youve owned the car!

Belmondo

Better yet, who in the whole wide world had any kind of car that has never had any problems?
Dude, anything engineered will have problems sooner or later.

nobs690

Time gives cars problems, there is not one car in this world that is not going to have a problem.

SouthernSon

The S model is undoubtedly way 'over engineered'. After owning an S430 for the last 4 years, with numerous trips to the shop, I wonder if the ones sitting on the showroom floors are operating at 100%!

There is a reason Mercedes was listed worst reliable, that is WORST reliable vehicle in a recent 'money' magazine. The second worst was a Jaguar, and of course, most anyone knows the terrible reputation they have had.

Andrew1316

My dad has an S430 and we really havent had many problems with it.

ruykava

have an S350L now. have a light in the door handle recess that keeps blinking on and off -- it shld jz stay on. really depends on wat u mean by a "problem". what about a slightly rattly dash on my E after an accident with the curb?

SouthernSon

As far as the type problems? Well, let's start with the purchase of a brand new S430 by my dear sweet widowed mother. The first problem that we incurred was the malfunction of the GPS unit because of no software by Mercedes for anything south of Kentucky. It seems that Mercedes, in all their wisdom, decided to outsource the hardware to one company and the software to another according to the dealer. Then the on board computer started behaving badly with first one little electrical gremlin and then another, so the dealer had to, in his words "blast the old program out and reload it". I called him aside and whispered, "please don't use the word 'blast' in reference to my mother's car, she has enough of a phobia of computers already." (a little sensitivity training may have been in order here).

Then the ABS started setting DTC lights and making really loud humming noises. Dealer response to mother, "just give it a while and it should go away". Dealers response to me a few days later, "leave it with us for a couple of days a we will research it". So far, so good. Then the driver's seat started snap, crackle, pop while one is turning. Dealer said broken base supports and repaired (my mother is around 150 pounds, never exceeds 80mph and has no curb rash on the rims as of this day....the car is not abused). The seat still creaks occasionally because it is simply WAY overly engineered. The cell phone message waiting intrusion into the sound system is very annoying. Finally got the provider of services to delete messaging option.

The reason mother traded her old mercedes was for peace of mind for a reliable new mercedes. Boy, did that money get wasted.

Don't even get me started on the ritual of turning the lights to automatic, place key fob onto ash tray .... etc.....................

ano0oj

its like finding a needle in a haystack

SouthernSon

I am not sure what is meant by this. If you mean finding a lemon of a mercedes, I can only reiterate that there was a recent article in a well know money magazine that rated mercedes build quality/reliability the worst of luxury automobiles. I didn't write the article and I sure as $%^& didn't engineer the vehicle. Could it be that the magazine article just happen to get responses from only those individuals that just happened to get the proverbial 'needles in a haystack'?

ruykava

well, it depends on which magazine it is -- 'well known' doesn't quite cut it, and i can assure you there are much worse engineered luxury automobiles out there. Range Rover quickly comes to mind. BMW, especially the new 7, too.

btw could i ask southernson what the whole issue of putting lights to automatic and putting keyfob in ashtray is about? it's certainly the first i heard of such problems... very interesting indeed...

SouthernSon

The deal with the lights comes about when one leaves the key in the ignition. Interior lights will stay on and run the battery down. Did you not know that?

As far as the magazine, does anyone subscribe to 'Forbes'? Check the issue last month or maybe two months ago.

Like I said, I didn't do the survey and I didn't build the car. The car is not up to par even with chevrolet. I have a '96 vette LT4. It now has 93k miles. The only things I have had to do (I say HAD to do since I have done a few performance grades that weren't necessary) were to replace the water pump, a clutch pivot bolt and A/C controller. The car has no sqeaks, rattles or shakes and won first place trophies in the only 2 shows I entered last year.

As far as 'cutting it', it is the poorly engineered Mercedes that doesn't cut it, dude. There is a reason that the Mercedes only holds 35% of value at the 5 year old mark. Maybe you are happy about a $75k automobile that is worth less than $27k after 5 years. I AIN'T!

ruykava

The deal with the lights comes about when one leaves the key in the ignition. Interior lights will stay on and run the battery down. Did you not know that?
no i did not. the lights turn off after a predetermined amount of time, unless you ask it to turn on when the doors are open -- and the doors are open. sure the battery runs down... but enough to stop the car? i have my very serious doubts unless you habitually leave the key in the car and open the doors AND set the lights to turn on, with no timer. for a few days. i'm writing with regards to an Asian spec car and with Keyless Go though, so perhaps the Americans can fill us in on how your cars behave.

oh, and 35% is the average retention of value of any vehicle in 5 years. luxury cars depreciate much more rapidly than average. if you're worried about such a drop in value, get something smaller, like a CLK cabriolet, or even better, an SLK (probably the best value retention car in the world now). those will retain something like 50%. face it: cars don't hold much value. you buy it to enjoy, not to make money.

SouthernSon

"face it: cars don't hold much value. you buy it to enjoy, not to make money"

You know that "buy it to enjoy" part is what is so irritating about a car with woeful reliability. Actually, although the Merz only retains 35% of its value after 5 years, the comparable Lexus retains 45%. In my opinion, that is significant. I don't mean to take issue with you or pick your opinion apart with the statistics but the surveys, customer complaints and resale value of the mercedes speak for themselves. Mercedes needs to redefine their target market, quit trying to be everything to all peoples, limit the low end production and refine what is being produced instead of jumping off into another make over for the next models and thus incurring the inevitable first year woes all over again. If I were to have any stock in Mercedes, I think I might get a little worried with the apparent direction the company seems to be taking. YMMV.

ruykava

southernson, i'm not sure at all regarding lexus depreciation figures, but i'd take your word for it. the Automotive Lease Guide, used by edmunds.com, though, rates the S-class and LS430 in the same category for depreciation, i.e. a 3-star. http://www.alg.com/deprratings.aspx.
i've no idea of their methodology, and perhaps location plays an important part too, so i'll leave it at that.
i DO agree, though, that the S-class could be a much better car. and i hope the new one coming in summer will finally nail the opposition firmly in the head. personally i don't really read surveys except those that rate hard statistics like number of services, actual depreciation figures etc -- i don't quite trust other's opinions :P
forummers might have noticed i'm pretty confrontational these few days don't take it personally please. the flu is spreading wildly and ITS MAKING ME F****** MAD!! i still take very strong issue with southernson's stance that this is a "poorly engineered mercedes", though. IMHO.
oh btw, we're waaaaay out of topic. sorry.

SouthernSon

"southernson, i'm not sure at all regarding lexus depreciation figures, but i'd take your word for it. the Automotive Lease Guide, used by edmunds.com, though, rates the S-class and LS430 in the same category for depreciation, i.e. a 3-star. http://www.alg.com/deprratings.aspx.
i've no idea of their methodology, and perhaps location plays an important part too, so i'll leave it at that.
"

The current issue of either 'Money','Smart Money','Forbes' or 'Kiplingers'.
Sorry, can't lay my hand on it right now but the article was an indepth look at the various categories of vehicles, including trucks. In the luxury category that included the S model, Lexus retains 45% of value 5 years later Merz only 35%.

SouthernSon

ruykava, I found the article. Forbes Dec. 13th 2004 issue, page 62.
The survey is a compilation of the responses of 'consumer reports' subscribers. Actually, the S,E, and C models were all in the top 6 problematic vehicles. That just simply is not good in anyone's book. Mercedes had better take note quickly for longevity with consumers. The Marque ain't what it used to be and the baby boomers are wising up quickly.

Heffel70

Bought brand new several yrs ago. I've never had to bring it in except for the regular maintenance.

Messerchmidt

cought, cought LS430...whats a problem?

Hattaresguy

I know someone who bought a 2000 S430 new when the W220 first came out. He loves it 30k miles and 5 years later and it still looks and feels like a new car. (as it should) So far he has had no problems, his only complaint is the newer paint is soft and chips. The original paint on his 1982 300SD lasted 15 years before he had to have it repainted, if this paint makes it past 10 he will be happy. I am glad the environment in Germany is cleaner , would it destroy the planet if they used the old style hard paint?

Dema

The same happens to friend of mine, not problems at all. What problem should we expect? Drunk drivers?

JohnMars

I have owned a '03 S55 and a '03 S600 and have put 20K miles on the pair, I haven't had any problems with either car.

By the way southerson the GPS didn't malfunction, you just had the wrong CD installed when traveling. The newer CD's have the major roads for the entire country on them. I did some cross country trips with the older Cd's and it is strange how you just run off the end of the map, but this is normal with the older stuff.

VMotoring

Phantom problems, huge pain in the ***! Imagine the fault code reading "bad fuel pressure" only to find that replacing the MAF fixes the problem

This is another reason to make sure your warranty is extended to 100k before your factory warranty runs out

fkong777

lots of problem 3 no start in 4 months. about 12 days total in repair shop. Swap out battery, then command unit, own the control module.

This is a 2002 with under 50K miles BTW.

What next.
I think a retainer payment is in order here..

SouthernSon

I realize there is the tendency amongst some owners to look at the good in the current Mercedes engineering and overlook some of those 'smaller' little annoying items that we try to convince ourselves that we can live with. After all, aren't the German auto makers supposed to make the best vehicles in the world? And you know, paying close to $100k has to buy the best that is out there, right?

Well, I don't wear rose colored glasses when I look at my autos. After all, I do my own work. I expect things to last for a while when I maintain and nurture the mechanics of same. I am disappointed. I had the chain jump on an E420. The oil gallery tubes cracked (plastic) and allowed lifter problems to develop. The transmission went out on my SL380. The S430 still 'ain't right'.
The S430 has now developed an intermittent clicking in the valve train with less than 40k on it.

Just the facts. The auto magazine writers are getting wise and the world is getting less tolerant of over/bad engineering. If you read a glowing article in a magazine about the mercedes products, you might be skeptical of the sources of revenue for said magazine and really look hard at anything else they have to say.

Lender1

My S 430 at a year and a half old and 25,000 miles just developed its first problem. It's with the keyless go and will be repaired next week. Other than that, the only time its been in the shop is for normal maintenance

As a footnote regarding Jaguars, I had a '95 VDP, the first model year of FoMoCo's total redesign and it only had a couple of minor issues in two years. My '97 XJ-6 only had the hood up to check or change the oil. During two years of ownership that car was perfect.