CE750

and off all of those, I for one would take the Buck Twenty Four priced A8.. I think it's an example of the best of VW engineering.

The Bentley name should have just been retired. IT's sad that the brits can't run a company profitably. The last bastion of independent design there is Aston Martin, and I'm sure Ford will find some way to muscle-in on that too!

FThornton666

The engine that powers the vanquish is actually two Ford Mondeo V6s put together Then again theres nothing wrong with that. The Mondeo engine is a good engine, it is the powerplant used in british Nobles.

MBZFAN55

Exactly ! Well almost exactly, but I'd put the Arnage first (drop-dead-gorgeous) and the Continental GT second, just such a different look. The Flying Spur makes me wonder how much I would like it if it didn't cost $170k. I think the Town Car analogy is good, but I think Kia-esque is almost a better comparison.

Beltfed

Continental GT vert..........

CE750

This is not the Continental GT that I and others here are talking about.. we're talking about the car that was designed pre-VW... that weighed in at some 6700lbs and had a twin turbo 6.7L V8 that produced a prodigious 690 lb/ft of torque at 1800rpm! That was the REAL Bentley Continental GT, the one that cost just north of $350,000!

See HERE

Beltfed

Yeah, I'm aware of 92-02 Continental.........Continental T, SC, Mulliner editions, etc.

Nice cars, but the new CGT is simply a better car (whether its a Phaeton in disguise or not).

Which it should be given the fact that its new technology.

I agree though, the new CGT and Flying Spur are not "real" Bentley's.

CE750

Beltfed

Sorry if I'm stating a fact........

Don't confuse old world handbuilt craftmanship with the term "better."

Can't let your emotions get in the way.

CE750

sure, but then using that logic an Acura NSX is better, or a 1/2 dozen other technologically advanced, performance cars..

What made a Bentley a "Bentley" was heft, workmanship, price, and presence, and this VW Bentley has none of those IMHO. I'd take an S class and bank the other $60K... or if I really liked the underpinings of this car, then an A8L with a W12.

Beltfed

I agree to an extent, but I still think the new Bentley has the look......not quite as crazy as a recent Arnage, but nice.

Flying Spur

CLFREAK

VW tarnishing its image or not, the new GTC roadster will undoubtedly turn heads even moreso than the GT and get the best valet spots here in Vegas if that's what you're after! What an improvement in design and power over the coupe. I had an order last year on the coupe and am glad I passed on it, as I would be taking a beating to get out of it and into the new convertible as I predicted!

Geez - did I create a monster with this thread! How'd we go from sedans to convertibles?

Once my lease is up on my CL600, my plan is to get the best of both worlds - a top-of-the-line prestige sedan (which is the reason I started this thread) and a top-end roadster. I don't know if I'll go back to the CL series again; for all I love about the car, it is a supreme pain loading passengers in the rear. But alas, there are some underground rumors a new CL cabriolet is in the works to compete with Bentley's GTC!!!

I am still undecided on the sedan, but I think I will be leaning toward either the W221 S600, 63 or the Bentley Flying Spur. I've sat in the interior of the Flying Spur and did not want to leave. It is nothing short of nirvana, being awashed in rich woods, sumptous leathers, and, ahhhhh, that aroma - this is were all others in the lineup will fall short! I like the Quattroporte, but am unsure as to where it fits when you have such strong prestige names in the sedan world like Bentley and Mercedes and can I really feel right about going from a V12 to a V8? Perhaps if it was an SLR or Ferrari 430. The Maserati may not hold up in that department which is why they're going to eventually produce a V12 to stay in the ranks. The CLS is an interesting creature in its own world, but, I think, is out-classed by them all in terms of top-of-the-line luxury and prestige. Its best feature is the design, but, like I said in a previous post, it's too small to "run with the big dogs".

As for the all-out roadster/convertible, if I wind up with the Flying Spur, it would be a little too much to have a GTC sitting next to it the garage. Therefore, I'm inclined toward the new Gallardo Spyder to fill this gap if that's the case.

Just too many options and not an unlimited budget! I mean just 2 cars is nearing $400K!

zam2000

Isn't it ironic: lot of Benz owner jump up and down, and put out a long speech to defend on how their beloved Benz have nothing to do with Chrysler.

Yet, when it come to comment on other car, Lexus is being called as a Toyota, Jarguar and Aston Martin as Ford, Acura as Honda, Infinity as Nissan, and yep, Lambo, Audi, and Benley as VW, Masserati as Fiat, by these same people ???

Of course, it's freedom of speech, call a car whatever you like. Just sad to see name twisting as a way to trash other car, and defend the tri-star. Pretty sad.

Btw, a one year old Benley GT still go for pretty much MSRP (huge mark-up last year, still long waiting list now). I don't think a one year old Benz go anywhere near MSRP.

CLFREAK

zam2000, I think you're right on cue! All you need to do is look at the manufacturer's residual lease figures, and you'll see who wins in the end.

Here's the proof in the pudding:
My '01 CL was about $130K new; I wouldn't be able to get more than $55K tops for it now; that's almost 60% depreciation in only 4 years!

You're right - a Bentley or Ferrari wouldn't get killed that badly!

thuged_out

Last time I checked it was Mercedes that bought Chrysler, and not the other way around, and none of the Mercedes models have any Chrysler parts in them, unlike Bentley, which is based on VW. I don't think anyone is twisting anything, just stating facts.

FThornton666

If you put an AUDI badge where the bentley badge is at, would you be able to tell the difference??? Thats all that we are saying. This car is not a bentley. Its a way for VW to have a cash cow. Have an already tested and proven platform, A8/Phaeton, put on a Bentey badge where the AUDI/VW logos would go, and then bump the price by 100K.

Also if you look at the mercedes and chrysler arguement. Ok lets compare. The current chrysler models that are using mercedes platforms, are based of the older out dated models (no offense to the older model owners). Even then the Chrysler doesnt even hold a candle to the Mercedes that it gets its life from. A W210 E320 is way better than a 300 Chrysler with the 2.7 V6. an SLK320 is better than a Crossfire. While with the Bentley Flying Spur, and the AUDI A8/Phaeton. what are the noticible differences? Only thing i can see is the stock W12 engine and not having a limiter.

CLFREAK

DancingBenzos, I see your point; we, as "insiders", all know Bentley's little secret, however, that simply will not affect or alter the public's (and the valets') perception at large with respect to its image which in their eyes still carries over from the "pure" Bentleys like the Arnage and Azure.

You show up in a car with the Bentley badge, no matter if the car is really a Phaeton in disguise, and it will still get more red carpet treatment than a non-mod top-of-the-line Benz, even though we know the Benz is the technically superior of the two. Unfortunate, but true. Also unfortunate, as I mentioned previously, is the fact that the Benz we all adore will most likely depreciate faster than the Bentley unless Bentley starts making more affordable cars for the masses, thus altering the public's perception of it, and thus, lessening its exclusivity and prestige. And I think that's where Mercedes totally lost it!!! By the 90s, they got greedy, up to the current, gradually capturing every demographic, and voila, bye-bye exclusivity of the brand. I recall back in the early 80s, Merc had only 4 models; the coupe (SEC - now the CL-class), the roadster (SL series), and the sedans (SEL- forerunner to the S-class, and the diesel 300). It wasn't until 1984 that the cheaper 190s were introduced as the entry-level Benz, and up until the late 80s, Mercs consistently held the title for maintaining the highest resale value of any production car. I still like to think the brand does, but it's sadly no longer the case, at least not as strongly as before and certainly not in comparison with much of its current competition. Now, Merc has 11 classes - from the entry-level C-class to the SLR!

I hate to bring this reality up, but I'm about to endure once again something I despise - and for the fourth time: a body style change which goes hand-in-hand with huge depreciation. Even worse, you will soon enough no longer have the badass, cutting-edge chariot, which, in a image-is-everything metropolis like LA, Miami, NY, or Vegas, is crucial if you want to keep up with the Joneses, and the once-trendy and much coveted style begins a slow decrescendo into becoming dated and ready for your gardener's son.

Such progressive evolution of a model's lineage or even total obsolescence simply does not seem to have affected other high-end brands as harshly, e.g., a Rolls is a Rolls is a Rolls no matter what year, same with the traditional Bentleys; older Ferraris and Lambos still cause heart attacks, and some become better-with-age classics and even ultimate collector items. Only certain Mercs from the distant past seem to have garnered this following; in the last 25 years though, have any? Such is the case when the production runs are all too plentiful and largely affordable to the masses.

It, however, remains to be seen if the three new Bentleys under the VW tyranny, as well the same for Rolls under BMW, will be spared from this trend.

Nobody seems to harp about Ferrari & Maserati being owned by giant Fiat, maker of one of the most disenchanting and disposable of all European vehicles, and Lamborghini, like Bentley, also now taken over by VW, doesn't incite a ruckus over its Gallardos or Murcielagos being glorified Beetles.

I mean, not to sound arrogant and condescending, but what uber-class Benz buyer in their right mind spending $100K+ for one of the flagship offerings would want to continue sharing identical interior appointments, let alone service advisors, with a half-dozen pedestrian-class models???

So, as much I have been a hardcore loyalist of Mercedes (now DaimlerChrysler) since 1987, and still love the reliability, comfort, styling, etc. etc., I must seriously reconsider and weigh these very important factors that are a direct result of brand dilution and compromised exclusivity.

As far as likening the Phaeton to the Flying Spur by saying the only difference is the badge, the V12, and the limiter, what about the Bentley's craftsmanship, the hand-rubbed paint and wood veneers, and the rest of that heavenly interior?

Can you say the Phaeton shares all this too?

zam2000

I think buyer at this level buy car for the "car experience", as long as the engine is powerful, the interior is top-rate, the red-carpet service, and most important of all, the "image" is acknowldeged, that's all they car. At FletcherJones in Newport Beach (CA), the biggest Mercedes dealer on earth, you will share your waiting room, car wash line, S.A, regardless whether you drive the $180K CL65 or the $30K C230 (btw, now offer for sale at ....Cosco !!!)

Just as Mercedes fit the same 5.5 AMG engine into SLK, S, E, and Maybach and SRL (with a twist or super-charge added on some). Yet, they can charge 2-3 times as much for the Maybach and SRL. Don't forget that the Maybach and SRL share a lot of part and technology with lesser models. Engine and technology sharing is nothing to be shame at. As long as it's good for the car, and doesn't compromise the quality, it's alright.

A Bentley is a Bentley is a Bentley. You can say a Saab is not really a real Saab, since GM take a Subaru, and slap a Saab logo on it & some minor twist. Are you saying that's a case with Bentley ? Lambo take entire climate control system from the Audi A4 (!!!) over, it doesn't make Lambo any less head turning, does it ?

Btw, as much as we hate to hear, Mercedes now admit "publicly" that it's not Mercedes buying Chrysler, but it's a "Merger of Equal", and they have to folk out $400 million to settle share holder lawsuit for it.

shoes

I ordered a Bentley Continental GT when it first appeared on the show circuit. I liked the way it looked and was intrigued by owning a brand that was otherwise uninteresting to me as well as unaffordable.

The I made a huge mistake- while I was waiting for the Bentley to arrive, I went out and bought a Phaeton. My ownership experience was not impressive- the car was overweight, many of the electronic systems had glitches, there were too many rattles from the interior to be acceptable and the dealer could not even explain how to operate the vehicle let alone fix it. I kept it a few months, took a huge depreciation loss and dumped it.

When my Bentley arrived, it was deja vu all over again. I recognized all of the same electronic systems, many interior parts, even the same key fob. I drove it all of five minutes and felt that enormous weight dragging down the performance and handling of the vehicle, took it back to the dealer and said, "No thanks."

VW's quality issues are even more pronounced than Mercedes. The dealer network for Bentley is not equipped to handle a five fold increase in sales and service related issues.

I would much rather get the new Mercedes S 600 than the Bentley Flying Spur, I think the ownership experience would be much more satisfying even though I agree that the Bentley interior is nirvana.

cntlaw

I would get the Bentley without need to compare with anything :p

swale

I would go for the bentley

CLFREAK

I saw the Flying Spur in the flesh; one in Beluga Black and One in Arctic White. Hate to use an old tacky phrase, but this sums it up: U CAN'T TOUCH THIS!

S-class may have the technology gizmos, but this car will win hands down in prestige and ultra-luxury. I don't care what anyone says, it's still a Bentley.

ruykava

zam2000: wrong! mercedes has always said it's a merger of equals - that's why the shareholders were given less. IN FACT, mercedes bought chrysler - that's what the shareholders are complaining about. why do you think chrysler's CEO is german?

anyway, i fully agree with shoes. flying spur ain't no bentley. if i want a bentley i'd go for the original pre-VW cars.

vixapphire

well, Volkswagen did exactly that, didn't they?

vixapphire

well, the dodge magnum SRT8 hemi wagon is built on the same platform as the e55 wagon; one of the big mags just did a shoot out of the cars and found that the dodge was overall a better car (performancewise), notably for 40k+ less... didn't stop me from buying an e55 wagon, either, but i think the valid point here is that where you see parts/platform sharing in the benz/chrysler relationship, it tends to flow to chrysler from mercedes, and it results in a better chrysler product, not necessarily a diluted (nor, with the exception of the new ML suv's that're built with the cherokees in alabama, sharing many parts and convincing similarities in appearance/styling, a chrysler-parts-sharing) mercedes product.

vixapphire

Actually, the initial spin has always been "merger of equals", but the reality and truth-known-to-Daimler/Benz-insiders was always Mercedes buying Chrysler. You've got it a little backwards there, but otherwise the rest of your post is pretty much spot-on. Has anyone else noticed that the radio in the $450k SLR is the same one that's in the $25k c240 sedan? Don't know about any of you, but that would get under my skin for that kind of money...