zumbalak

You guys gotta be kidding! Comparing the S class to the Bentley??????

C'mon we all love the MB but it is not the king.
I mean Bentley vs S class.
THERE IS NO CHOICE, HANDS DOWN BENTLEY.

http://www.blackbookforum.com/phpbb2...opic.php?t=161

See the video above. Which S class will do 208mph without breaking sweat.
Show me one S class to do so.

C'mon guys, let's face the reality.
Bentley makes artwork, MB makes transportation equipment.

CLFREAK

zumbalak, amazing & entertaining to say the least! Where on earth does one find such info?!

Well, about-to-be-new S-class owners, what will you do now? I guess wait for the S63 or 65, whatever it will be, to compete with this luxury beast. But that won't be until probably sometime in '07 at the earliest, right? By then, the Bentley folks will most likely have upped the HP ante from the stock 552 V12 to God knows what. Unless you Renntech-ize, Brabus-ize, or Kleemann-ize your new S-class, you ain't got a chance now.

CE750

Zam, I like you a lot, and you're always dead on target, but in my opinion in this case, your deal wrong..

Are you telling me the Bentley Continental Pre-VW and this re-sheet metaled A8 are the same pedigree? Are you SERIOUS? my brother-in-law has a 2001 Azure and I can tell you that this is a truly unique car, hand built and sold at prices just south of $400,000 (at a significant loss to it's manufacturer mind you! thus the take over by VW to "save the brand")

This new "Bentley" is A8/Patheon with new sheet metal and a nicer (albeit marginally) interior.. Come on man!

As for DCX and MB/Chrysler... It's a KNOWN FACT, that MB bought Chrysler and to spare many egos and make this sail thru US courts/stock holders it was billed as a merger.. Look at the paper trail.. it's a take over by MB.. And to this day, there isn't a drop of Chrysler in any MB that I'm aware of. Sadly there is a lot of Chrysler culture making its way into MB marketing offices.. especially MBUSA which is filled with ex-Chrysler managers.. But from an engineering standpoint there sure is a lot of MB in the Chrysler cars.. I'll not lie.. And Chrysler is kicking *** today as a result. The day Chrysler send over a part to the E, or S class or SL, I'll drive a Lexus!

So maybe Bentley engineers and workers should be giving VW/Audi tips on how to build the cars, not the other way around.

(I can't believe I'm defending a British car maker over a German one )

CE750

Are you not reading the prior posts.. this is a very well made, top of the line VW.. Bentley went out of business in 1998 or 2003 depending on how you see it :p... seriously, the last real Bentley was build in mid-03... the rest are VW/Bentley, this isn't a "hands off" purchase for VW, they want to make $$$$.

How else do you explain the price going from $350,000+ to $150,000? I'll tell you.. Costs are down (a lot) and volume will be up (a lot) thus a Bentley will be "common place" where as before it was rare.

source:http://www.thecarconnection.com/Vehi...183.A8540.html

As for the new "Bentley" SUV
source:http://www.autoweek.com/news.cms?newsId=102183

FThornton666

Thats a good point. Also im glad mercedes decided to use the Cherokee platform. Its is extremely rugged. I had a Grand Cheroke 2000 model, and i could slide it around, i could do anythign to that thing and it would not break. I never had a suspension problem, anything. Its a great platform.

CE750

Mercedes use the what? In what? The Alabama specials? Cause there is no Jeep in any German Benz that I'm aware.. the parts flow MB->Chrysler not the other way around. Plus no offense to your Cherokee, but for an rugged off roader it's not all what it's billed to be. I saw one with cracked unibody frame when it's owner took it on a minor off road trip... a real SUV (and I'll freely admit mine isn't either) has a solid frame so it can actually survive an off road drive.

zumbalak

CE750 why do you need to bash anything non MB?

I mean you complain about the Bentley, and it is a fact that it is a superior car to the S class. For goodness sake if the S class was as good or better, trust me they would be selling the s class for 200K as they sell the Bentley. But last time I checked S class starts for a much cheaper price.

Who cares if Bentley uses this part that part of Audi. I mean you do not even own a Bentley, how can you be so critical about a car that you don't even own, and maybe you did not even drive in your life (more than enough to justify your bashing). On top of that you seem not to be driving the S class either.

I mean you gotta give credit to when the credit is due. Bentley makes amazing cars, cars that are more superior to the S class. It is a known thing, and I dare you to go and do a survey of 1000 people on the street and ask them which one they would prefer if they have the chance to own Bentley or the S class for free, I bet 99% will say Bentley.

Bentley is a superior car to the S class. The luxury of Bentley is one S class can not match, and will not match. The S class is not really a direct competitor. It doesn't matter who makes which car as long as they make a superior product, when Bentley is owned by VW it will not change the fact that it is in a different league than the S class.

And what is the problem with Cherokee? You heard of one cracked frame, and what does it prove? NOTHING! Yes nothing. Cherokee is one of the most rugged and best handling off road and on road SUVs out there. If MB used the technology of Cherokee they were late I think, can you compare the old M class ruggedness, and road ability to Cherokee? I don't think so.

CE750

Setting the record straight.. If you read my posts carefully, I wouldn't have to make these points again.. but here we go:


a) I have nothing but high regard for the pre-VW Bentleys and place them well above MB for being fine cars, do a search of my posts where I always elevate Bentleys above MB and compare them to Patek Philippe watches, while I compare MB to Rolex. I don't own a lot of things that I'm critical of, including $140,000,000 Airbus A330's that I have had friend fly and compare to $160,000,000 B-777's... does this mean I can't have an opinion on them because I'm not a bank or leasing company with the money to buy one?

b) I said the Cherokee (like My Volvo "SUV") is not a real off road vehicle.. and if you read the warranty on that car you'll see that DCX says the same. Range Rover, Ford/Chevy Trucks, Hummer H1, MB G500 are all designed to be off road vehicles, that just the way it is. not trying to bash anything..

c) other cars I like as much or more than MB are, some BMW's such as the 6 series, and 3 series (which I like more than the C). Ferrari's of all types, Audi's A6 (almost got one, but I wanted a diesel). Just to name a few.. I don't bash anything that's not MB.. I call a spade a spade.. The new "Bentley" isn't cut of the same cloth as the pre-VW.. get over that fact, and you'll be able to understand my point (and others here) on this matter. It's not that the new Bentley is crap.. it's not, but it's really no better than the S class, they're both built to the same production standards... which in many ways better than the old Bentleys which were hand crafted in many ways so not quite as precise..

Cars that I will ALWAYS bash are the Japanese knock-offs of the German cars.. such as Lexus, Infiniti, Acura... for me they're just cheap knock offs.. I don't care if they're reliable.. I can afford to fix my car. Heck, are Ferrari's reliable?

Kubazzz

jeeeez what a long post I don't have time to read all but these pics of Flying Spur are stunning.

vixapphire

relax, dude, and accept the limitations of your knowledge. see the new ML and Grand Cherokee, and read the automotive press. it's no secret that these cars are of common design from step one onwards.

vixapphire

Apples to oranges comparison in your logic here, mate. Luxury items often hold inflated values as a result of their scarcity. I think it's fair to state that the comparative scarcity of Bentley automobiles accounts for a significant bit of the price difference, not necessarily some innate "superiority" mojo. Likewise, the foregoing being a factor in peoples' perceptions, the fact that surveys may reveal a preference for the Bentley is no indicator of the car's superiority, unless your metric is based on intangible brand valuation/public perception.

Fact is, there's probably not many people who really know whether a Bentley is a superior car to the Benz. F'rinstance, if until VW got involved, Bentleys had that crapola British Lucas electronics (like the Jaguars used to before Ford came along), wiring, etc., I'd wager not many people who had any experience with the car would perceive them superior to the pre-late-90's bank-vault-built Mercedes cars. But I could be wrong.

lorinserbenz

I drove a new Flying Spur and it smokes the new S in looks, prestige and luxury.
Its not a equal comparison...

cracker123

ouch, now the jaguar will be called a ford, merceds a doge, lexus toyota.

gbahri

LOL at people who think mercedes uses chrysler parts. The 300C uses the old E class platform and parts, and is considered a very good car. Just comes to show that even an old benz beas new cars. And the crossfire uses old SLK platform and parts. the chrysler pacifica and Mercedes R class, even though they look similar, share 0 parts. Countem...0

ruykava

actually, the X-type is often called a Ford and Lexus is often called Toyota - in Lexus's case, it is justified because THE CARS ARE THE SAME as their Toyota equivalents except for minor cosmetic changes. Toyota Windom and ES300? same. Toyota Land Cruiser Cygnus and Lexus LX470? same. Toyota Avalon (JDM) and GS300? same. the list goes on.

the question is how much is shared. platform? radio? engine? transmission? door handles?

in Mercedes' case, every new things comes out in Mercedes first, then goes on down the line (e.g. Crossfire, 300C etc, as mentioned above). in the other manufacturer's case, it's not always so. they come out on the cheaper brand then go upmarket. e.g. X-type uses Ford Mondeo's chasis; Bentley uses VW engines, transmission, electronics.

CE750

So many confused people on the internet..

Fact:

NEW BENTLY IS HEAVY LOADED WITH VW PARTS

If you like it and don't like the Patheon, or Audi A8, you're a hypocrite

Fact:

NO BENZ has chrysler parts, even the dreaded Alabama specials - vise versa

Fact:

Toyota's brand Lexus was "invented" to cover the Toyota name place on cars already being sold in Japan and other parts of the world as TOYOTA.


Puleese people!

zam2000

Dude, it's onething about bashing Lexus, it's another to show your knowledge about car. The two car have different engine, transmission, and engine drive (Avalon is FWD, Lexus GS is RWD/AWD).

I guess your next step would be arguing that Lexus and Toyota are the same because they both have 4 wheels, and came from Toyota. Don't make a fool out of yourself too much.

Btw, the Maybach and SRL (both cost $400K or more) use the S55 engine. And the SLR use the C class stereo & AC control system.

alewifebp

Note your Toyota comparison is technically correct. But, we can not compare the Toyota as we know it to the equivalent Lexus models available here in the US. Remember that the Toyota nameplate in Japan covers the gamut from the low to the high end (this will change, as Lexus will become an official nameplate in Japan). The GS series is the Aristo, a different platform than the Avalon. Contrary to somewhat popular folklore, the LS is in fact a Toyota, but not the gussied up Camry that some peope insist, but rather the Toyota Celsior. Note that the both the Aristo and Celsior are not sold in the US.

I don't doubt that the Bentley shares some VW parts. Once again, these parts don't come right out of the lowest grade Jetta, but share the technology with the still luxurious, but puzzling Phaeton. But let's be quite honest in this realm of cars. Even though it has been mentioned, it bears repeating. The majority of people are going to be buying a Bentley for the prestige. And no matter what quality the Bentley may be, at the valet stand, and driving down Broadway, the Bentley is going to attract much more attention, and screams out "I'm rich." The S-Class, just like the Maybach, may in fact be a superior car to the competition, but give me a Phantom over a Maybach any day, and give me this Bentley over the S any day.

And I've driven the previous generation E and the 300, and quite frankly, give me the old E any day. The 300 shares parts with the old E, but it is the sum of the parts that matter.

CE750

All good points, you know what you're talking about.. I and most anyone would never say the new Bentley isn't a great car, nor would we say that it's not a better car overall than a Patheon... the point is however, it's not cut of the same cloth that the original Bentley's of days gone is.. like the Chrysler 300 vs W210 comparison you just made, the Bentley is a better car for sure than the Patheon.. but we're comparing apples to oranges with regards to the Azure/Continental (thru 2001) and the Flying spur of today.

BoBcanada

LEXUS IS TOYOTA AND IT ha dnothing to do in a W211 S CLASS FORUM.


MOderators close this thread.

CE750

slow down.. now.. I "think" I agree with you here.. but what are you trying to say about W211 and S class?

NZ Benz

Personally in my opinion I do think the Bentley would be a better car when you think of things like its value in 10 years time compared to the Mercedes, as obviously it would be worth more. And aswell i belive that even though I have not seen the new S-class in person I think the Bentley has a lot more attention to detail when compared to any Mercedes. As earlier in the year I was lucky enough to be able to attend the lauch of the Flying Spur and wow what an amazing car, so much attention to detail which is something I admire in a car which is why I'd pick a Bentley, but for everyday driving I'd perfer a Mercedes as its not so in your face and pretencious as a Bentley (no offence to any Bentley owners)

FThornton666

Hahaha a Ford or Chevy truck? Are you serious my friend? Have you ever done any seriouis off roading???? Dude Jeep makes the best off roading platform under the H1. The Rubicon, which is a god off roading. The G500 would get owned by a grand cherokee in Off Roading this is a fact. A Ford or Chevy truck is not a good platform for off roading, sand duning but not off roading. See those trucks have very long beds which become a ***** to navigate up on a trail, and make it hard with clearence. The Grand Cherokee is nothing like you Volvo XC90, Grand Cherokee not cherokee, although a cherokee is a good off roader too, which is why alot of national park services use these vehicles.

AMG_55

i was gonna post the same thing
the new bentleys look like jags and are made by vw

AMG_55

a g500 will not get owned by a jeep, they are about the same, the only limitation of the g is size and auto box, it is not a fact
a fact is that the g wagen in all its shapes and sizes has been to the most remote places on the face of the earth, a short wheel base g w/ a diesel and a 5speed will hang on to anything anywhere, h1 included