georgl

"If that were true, they should make thier whole line less reliable so they can sell more"
I've seen many Lexus, the construction is nothing special, and thats part of the secret - as less innovation as possible while creating the imagination of Innovation on the outside and therefore prevent high R&D costs and problems.

Trying to make as much money as possible from a product instead of having the product itself in focus can result in reliable products - but in long-term perspective it will always decrease the quality of the product (that's more than reliability). Quality is just means to an end - therefore it is achieved in the cheapest way possible and always only as high as necessary (for what quality is the customer willing to pay?). When Toyota noticed that a high ranking in JD-Power-surveys or reliable (because the problems have been outlawed by the company who introduced it) instead of sophisticated new technology is more important to the customer they adapted to achieve the highest profits!

Many of you will ask: "Whats wrong about following the customers wishes?"
It's about short-term and long-term effects. When you go to the doctor (the "engineer") and he says you need surgery you can say no (you don't wish that) and you will be happy for the next few days (short-term) - then you're dead (long-term)...
Exploding and expensive "air-bags" would have never had a chance in the automotive industry when engineers wouldn't have fought for this technology. It's the same with many technologies today.
If engineers could decide, we wouldn't fight about hybrid vs. Diesel, maybe we would already drive around with a superior combination of Hybrid-Diesotto-Engine driven with Sunfuel...
But now it's about the best marketing-campaign...

"Cost reductinon is not only reduced by buying products at a cheaper rate but by developing system to continually improve and standardize everyday work so that it is done more efficiently by learning from the previous build issue
Innovation and invention is one part of the process, unfortunatly it seems the germans believe it is the end of the cycle whereas thier japanese counterparts believe it is the beginning."

You're talking about efficiency not about cost-reduction as made in the automotive industry.

MB had group concepts since nearly 40 years (and then Toyota invented the "team concept" - I'm still suffering at my work from this profit-driven concept), they always thought about ways to increase efficiency (same parts etc.) but they've always invested the saved money into the product! They weren't afraid of a new technology that increases production costs when it increases quality - even if the customer couldn't see it! Suppliers weren't forced to reduce costs every year, production wasn't outsourced into countrys with low wages (Lexus Diesel are from Poland - no Know-How but cheap workers) - every worker got the money he was worth.

In the end of the 80s the cheaper Toyotas/Honda/Mazda became more and more popular, the engineers were given a last chance to prove that customers are willing to pay for quality, they developed the best luxury car of this time, more comfortable, stronger, safer, of higher quality (but more innovative and complex what leads automatically to lower reliability) as every car of this time. But customers weren't able to realize, they discussed about size, about the price, about optics and were influenced by marketing/press - this was the end for state-of-the-art-technology in the mass-production automotive industry.
When customers would have been more clever, we would have a W220 and a W221 of much higher quality instead of a car thats maybe 20% MB and 80% a profit-optimized compromise like Lexus.

You want to see quality? Things created by engineers? Not cheap but worth the price? Just look at (mostly family-companys) german optics, mechanical engineering, professional electronics (www.arri.de www.trumpf.com) etc. or traditional japanese knive-makers... all that could have been...

rpdunne

Another reason to wait a year or two.
(If I can only keep convincing myself of that)...

JAdmiral

All I know is my dealer tells me my "last decade March" build" is now a "first decade April" build. I asked about Priority One status and he said "Oh, all the cars we order get Priority One status".

Is this bull****?

Nevada Jack

Pri One is usually a specific customer order...I guess he could designate his stock orders as Pri One but I don't know how that works.

From what I know about the delays, shift on your order was not too bad considering they are shifting orders all the way into August possibly. However, you may have been waiting a long time for your March build.

MBZFAN55

I'm right behind you. First year production problems vs. I-want-it-now mentality is always a difficult decision. I think I may park myself in an SL550 for a few years and let the S550 "dust" settle.

ewde1

well march 2nd (today) is when a definite timeframe should be offered by MBUSA in regards to availability of options..ill keep you posted as i have a contact in montvale,nj (MBUSA headquarters...)
and Nevada is right, it looks like aug/sept availability..no p2 or p3 at the moment is orderable on NetStar(the mb dealer ordering and tracking system)

Nevada Jack

I'll be really interested in what you can find out ewde1. Post as soon as you hear something.

Some dealers may have April builds that will have all the options (minus P2/P3) but some of the items in those options may be buildable as stand-alones like Keyless Go and Dynamic seats. For instance if you order Distronic Plus, Parktronic is deleted and Park Assist is added which uses the radar sensors eliminating the buttons from the bumper area.

I think they are finally trying to getting things organized for the customer and the dealers because of the confusion they have caused. It should never have happened but it did so all we can do is wait it out.

JAdmiral

Does anyone here have access to the NetStar ordering/tracking system? If I were to give my order #, would you be able to track it for me? I want to keep my dealer in check...

Thanks in advance!

Nevada Jack

Unless someone is connected to a dealership that would probably be tough. I know you need a password and there may be security check on the entry computer.

However, having said that...nothing is tamper proof these days...:-)

ajf1

Netstar is not web based, at least it wasn't a few years ago, I asked a dealer and he said they were moving to a web based application in the future. I'll ask one of my guys today.

SL65amg

I put my order in two weeks ago for the S550 with every single option available, I wanted it loaded with everything, and they're telling me August at the earliest !! I might not see it till Sept/Oct or maybe even November !! Pisses me off bad what's going on ... saw quite a few S 550's recently coming in pre-sold to customers and they are pretty bare, although two I saw were Launch editions with Pano roof and rear power sideblinds and few other options, and saw one black on black with sport package, but no other options ... the rest I saw had absolutely no options whatsoever, just ridiculous. The S 550 I test drove was completely bare bones ... so stupid. Had no options but they wanted atleast 90 or 94 or whatever for it.
I agree they should have the S 550's have much more options as standard. Atleast all the S 600's I've been told by the dealers will have every single option as standard. My S550 fully loaded is going to come out at around $116,000 without tax/tag/title. Factor in all of that with every option plus the mandatory built in K40 radar/laser with jammer/diffuser and etched rearview mirror display, plus few other key upgrades like engine ECU upgrades, PermaFinish paint protection, and couple others, boy I'll be looking at $125,000 or maybe more. The S600 will be about $139,000, so not much more, but when you add the sport package and the same upgrades that I mentioned before for the S550 to it, it'll be around low 150's.
I'll say this though .. the S550 is much much faster than the 2006 model S500, and much smoother and superior in every way. I makes my 745Li which I just gave back (lease was up) seem like a cheap imitation by comparison. I told the dealer to offer other customers who are way ahead of me on the list some money to give up their spot to me, but he doesn't know if any of them will be willing, because like I said this new S-Class is way hotter than any of the dealers expected. It seems everybody and their grandmother wants one now. The salesperson who let me test drive the 550 said that one guy who just picked one up few weeks ago now wants to buy another one for his business partner because after the partner rode in it he wanted one right away, but the salesperson had to tell the guy the truth, which means he won't be getting his till this coming Christmas !!!

silberrosa

SL65 - for the money you are spending, perhaps you should consider the S600. All options are standard. The only available options is 19" wheels. The AMG package is not available for the S600.

ClayJ

I think the S550 is a fantastic new MBZ -- and nothing prior can really compare favorablly. Worth the wait, and the money, IMO.

If an SL55 fully-loaded is over $130K, how can one complain about a fully-loaded S550 costing 125K?

The new technology, and the quality of the ride are most likely unsurpassed...

ewde1

Well it appears the promised Mar 2 update from MBUSA in regards to dates for premium package availability is now going to be Mar 6. My dealer will check if options are available, and wen they should be available if not..there is a chance you can build a car with INCOMPLETE premium option packages (i.e. a P3 package without nightvision, or a P2 package without keyless go). In all honesty guys dont order anything now because it will come bare and devoid of any options and for a 92k plus car, does that make any sense?

Nevada Jack

Well I ordered mine and had to give up Keyless Go and the Trunk Closer and was not happy having to do that. But I had a trip planned for June (cross country) and decided I could get along without those to items. I agree that both of these items should be made standard.

You can see my post at https://mbworld.org/forums/s-class-w221/139417-nevadajack-back-race-stay-tuned.html for the timing and list of options I got. I was fortunate to get the early build date and only lose two of my list of options.