LA Times Dan Neil on the new LS
08-31-2006, 04:52 PM
#26
Originally Posted by Braheem
The LS is like the good wife that's always by your side, may not be as flashy as your stripper G/F but she's always there whether you give her much attention or not.
Whereas the Benz is the stripper G/F that makes you look good in public, rides good when she's not acting up, she requires that you never miss any of the high maintenance on her and ALWAYS keeps you appreciating her by you knowing you cannot take her for granted. Have no doubt the day you cant afford to maintain her lifestyle she will leave you on the side of the road.
I suggest you get an LS for reliable, fuss free transportaion and a Benz to satisfy your mid-life crisis.
Whereas the Benz is the stripper G/F that makes you look good in public, rides good when she's not acting up, she requires that you never miss any of the high maintenance on her and ALWAYS keeps you appreciating her by you knowing you cannot take her for granted. Have no doubt the day you cant afford to maintain her lifestyle she will leave you on the side of the road.
I suggest you get an LS for reliable, fuss free transportaion and a Benz to satisfy your mid-life crisis.
Are you married? If you are you don't sound happy!
08-31-2006, 07:05 PM
#27
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Originally Posted by ricky.agrawal
Haha, this is one of the worst, most inaccurate analogies I've ever heard of.
Are you married? If you are you don't sound happy!
Are you married? If you are you don't sound happy!
08-31-2006, 09:11 PM
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Originally Posted by ricky.agrawal
Haha, this is one of the worst, most inaccurate analogies I've ever heard of.
Are you married? If you are you don't sound happy!
Are you married? If you are you don't sound happy!
Just want a car that I can drive for 300K miles without having to go to the dealer.
I realize most poeple on an MBZ S-class forum believe there is that little bit of mistique that makes it worth the extra headaches.
Answer this for me, what am I gaining when I'm driving a C230/320 with beta testing reliability? as opposed to the cheapest Lexus.
Am I still missing something in Mistique that cant be interpreted in a JD power survey?
08-31-2006, 10:13 PM
#29
300k miles is no small feat. When we got to 200k miles we started having some major issues with the LS400, it's not reliability that's the issue, it's dealer service.
Some dealers are good, which makes the ownership experience a bundle of love, some dealers suck ***, which makes you want to kill someone.
With Mercedes (with all our old service advisors) you'd go to the dealership and try to get something resolved and then pay out of the nose for it. Then two weeks later it would break again (example: tire pressure monitoring system) and then you'd go back and they'd charge you twice as before. It's the principals that get to you.
After 11 years or so when my HVAC system started acting up on the LS400 the first time the dealer charged me to fix it. That's okay. The car was well out of warranty. A week later it acted up again and they had the nerve to try to charge me again. I raised hell and with Mercedes, they would say "We're Sorry" but with Lexus they shut up and fixed their mistake.
Now if Mercedes dealers were as good as Lexus ones (of course, YMMV) trust me, I'd easily have a W221 and a W211, but until then we'll keep shopping around.
Some dealers are good, which makes the ownership experience a bundle of love, some dealers suck ***, which makes you want to kill someone.
With Mercedes (with all our old service advisors) you'd go to the dealership and try to get something resolved and then pay out of the nose for it. Then two weeks later it would break again (example: tire pressure monitoring system) and then you'd go back and they'd charge you twice as before. It's the principals that get to you.
After 11 years or so when my HVAC system started acting up on the LS400 the first time the dealer charged me to fix it. That's okay. The car was well out of warranty. A week later it acted up again and they had the nerve to try to charge me again. I raised hell and with Mercedes, they would say "We're Sorry" but with Lexus they shut up and fixed their mistake.
Now if Mercedes dealers were as good as Lexus ones (of course, YMMV) trust me, I'd easily have a W221 and a W211, but until then we'll keep shopping around.
08-31-2006, 10:46 PM
#31
Originally Posted by AsianML
Mercedes bought Chrysler. Or so they say. Until then I prefer the term "merger."
But either way, that doesn't affect the fact that they build fantastic vehicles.
08-31-2006, 10:52 PM
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Originally Posted by ricky.agrawal
There is never a merger of equal, Mercedes bought out Chrysler.
But either way, that doesn't affect the fact that they build fantastic vehicles.
But either way, that doesn't affect the fact that they build fantastic vehicles.
08-31-2006, 11:55 PM
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Originally Posted by ricky.agrawal
300k miles is no small feat.
others:
LS with 190K SOLD
LS with 140K SOLD (looked so new at 140K, it was shipped to a Judge in Dubai where they dont pay attention to mileage)
GS with 173K
GX with 80K
ES with 80K
none of the above cars have had any service ohter then timing belts.
09-01-2006, 02:39 AM
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Originally Posted by zam2000
You're right to the point. Target customer for Lexus and MBZ/BMW might be different. However, the impact that they create in the luxury car segment is VERY significant, they change the game the German had been playing for ages.
Lexus still make boring car, however, they don't seem to have much problem moving to the higher market & price tag. That's something even Mercedes fail to do: look at the Maybach and SLR, a disaster for Mercedes, both sell (new) at substantial discount.
Lexus still make boring car, however, they don't seem to have much problem moving to the higher market & price tag. That's something even Mercedes fail to do: look at the Maybach and SLR, a disaster for Mercedes, both sell (new) at substantial discount.
M
09-01-2006, 02:50 AM
#35
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Originally Posted by ricky.agrawal
300k miles is no small feat. When we got to 200k miles we started having some major issues with the LS400, it's not reliability that's the issue, it's dealer service.
Some dealers are good, which makes the ownership experience a bundle of love, some dealers suck ***, which makes you want to kill someone.
With Mercedes (with all our old service advisors) you'd go to the dealership and try to get something resolved and then pay out of the nose for it. Then two weeks later it would break again (example: tire pressure monitoring system) and then you'd go back and they'd charge you twice as before. It's the principals that get to you.
After 11 years or so when my HVAC system started acting up on the LS400 the first time the dealer charged me to fix it. That's okay. The car was well out of warranty. A week later it acted up again and they had the nerve to try to charge me again. I raised hell and with Mercedes, they would say "We're Sorry" but with Lexus they shut up and fixed their mistake.
Now if Mercedes dealers were as good as Lexus ones (of course, YMMV) trust me, I'd easily have a W221 and a W211, but until then we'll keep shopping around.
Some dealers are good, which makes the ownership experience a bundle of love, some dealers suck ***, which makes you want to kill someone.
With Mercedes (with all our old service advisors) you'd go to the dealership and try to get something resolved and then pay out of the nose for it. Then two weeks later it would break again (example: tire pressure monitoring system) and then you'd go back and they'd charge you twice as before. It's the principals that get to you.
After 11 years or so when my HVAC system started acting up on the LS400 the first time the dealer charged me to fix it. That's okay. The car was well out of warranty. A week later it acted up again and they had the nerve to try to charge me again. I raised hell and with Mercedes, they would say "We're Sorry" but with Lexus they shut up and fixed their mistake.
Now if Mercedes dealers were as good as Lexus ones (of course, YMMV) trust me, I'd easily have a W221 and a W211, but until then we'll keep shopping around.
I have nothing but great service from my MBZ dealer.
09-01-2006, 03:34 PM
#36
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A lot of you are comparing using the previous generation LS, going "yeah, I owned a LS and it sucks!" It's like comparing the old gen LS to the new gen S-Class. I'm pretty sure that the newer generation will be better and people just need to stop being so harsh.
And to clarify some things, someone said that the design is too simple or whatever... this car is not out yet, how would you even know if you haven't seen it on the road? and the interior dash is "busy" because Lexus didn't want to be like BMW and confuse everyone with just a iDrive interface.
and about the parking assist and everyone going: i dont need a car that parks itself. it's an option and who else has this new feature? so I wouldn't be so harsh on Lexus.
and Lexus is known for its unsurpassed quality and build as compared to many German brands (BMW, Mercedes [e-class in particular]). Not everyone is perfect.
regarding the article, the author uses stock images and videos from another site. that means he could not have even stepped into the LS himself and just wrote the article to bash Lexus or whatnot.
I wouldn't be surprised if Lexus's new LS replaces the face of Popular Science's Tech Car of the Year next year.
just my few opinions.
And to clarify some things, someone said that the design is too simple or whatever... this car is not out yet, how would you even know if you haven't seen it on the road? and the interior dash is "busy" because Lexus didn't want to be like BMW and confuse everyone with just a iDrive interface.
and about the parking assist and everyone going: i dont need a car that parks itself. it's an option and who else has this new feature? so I wouldn't be so harsh on Lexus.
and Lexus is known for its unsurpassed quality and build as compared to many German brands (BMW, Mercedes [e-class in particular]). Not everyone is perfect.
regarding the article, the author uses stock images and videos from another site. that means he could not have even stepped into the LS himself and just wrote the article to bash Lexus or whatnot.
I wouldn't be surprised if Lexus's new LS replaces the face of Popular Science's Tech Car of the Year next year.
just my few opinions.
09-01-2006, 04:46 PM
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S, GL, Escalade ESV, my shoes
As the matter of fact, Toyota is not that unfamiliar with this price range.
In Japan, typical Lexus LS cost around $55-60K (under Toyota brand), with a lot of standard features that considered as option for US one (i.e rear-view camera, parking sensor, rear-shade, rear-AC control, GPS...)
But that's not most expensive Toyota/Lexus model for the Japanese market. There's a model that sold exlusively in Japan only (and some of the riches in Middle East): Toyota Century, with fully loaded one run up to $200K more, with a year or two of waiting list (hand built) !!. The even better model: Toyota Century Royal run anywhere from $450-500K. Most of the richest of the rich in Japan ride in these cars, not in Rolls or Bentley or Maybach. These car have V12, all of the best techology and craftmanship. They're 4 door sedan, not limo, and they look conservative just as all of the expensive sedan out there. For the Century Royal model, only government officials, the royal family, or CEO/President of big corps get to ride in it, since Toyota get to select buyer (something Ferrari originally did to Enzo, but eventually failed, any punk w/ lot of cash can get one now as well). And with that kind of waiting list, I don't think there's heavy discount as the Maybach or SLR.
I'm sure none of the Toyota model would sit on top ten w/ hiphop gang. Funny that Dan Neil proudly claim Mercedes belong to that group, just as GM.
Let me put it this way: I buy a Lexus for my parent and my wife for peace of mind & luxury, but I get myself a Benz or Bimmer, I enjoy driving !!. I am not a big fan of Toyota luxury division (whatever name you wanna call it), but I think it deserve lot of respect, and it help to make the entire luxury segment better. Competition always help.
In Japan, typical Lexus LS cost around $55-60K (under Toyota brand), with a lot of standard features that considered as option for US one (i.e rear-view camera, parking sensor, rear-shade, rear-AC control, GPS...)
But that's not most expensive Toyota/Lexus model for the Japanese market. There's a model that sold exlusively in Japan only (and some of the riches in Middle East): Toyota Century, with fully loaded one run up to $200K more, with a year or two of waiting list (hand built) !!. The even better model: Toyota Century Royal run anywhere from $450-500K. Most of the richest of the rich in Japan ride in these cars, not in Rolls or Bentley or Maybach. These car have V12, all of the best techology and craftmanship. They're 4 door sedan, not limo, and they look conservative just as all of the expensive sedan out there. For the Century Royal model, only government officials, the royal family, or CEO/President of big corps get to ride in it, since Toyota get to select buyer (something Ferrari originally did to Enzo, but eventually failed, any punk w/ lot of cash can get one now as well). And with that kind of waiting list, I don't think there's heavy discount as the Maybach or SLR.
I'm sure none of the Toyota model would sit on top ten w/ hiphop gang. Funny that Dan Neil proudly claim Mercedes belong to that group, just as GM.
Let me put it this way: I buy a Lexus for my parent and my wife for peace of mind & luxury, but I get myself a Benz or Bimmer, I enjoy driving !!. I am not a big fan of Toyota luxury division (whatever name you wanna call it), but I think it deserve lot of respect, and it help to make the entire luxury segment better. Competition always help.
Originally Posted by Germancar1
Whoa, those cars are 300K and 450K, far more than anything Lexus would dream of doing. Lexus pushing into the 70-80K market isn't nearly the same thing because there are other there. MB's selling for those numbers is pretty much a new concept for them and there are very few others in the 450K range of the SLR.
M
M
Last edited by zam2000; 09-01-2006 at 09:10 PM.
09-01-2006, 06:32 PM
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Originally Posted by johnsmercedes
regarding the article, the author uses stock images and videos from another site. that means he could not have even stepped into the LS himself and just wrote the article to bash Lexus or whatnot.
just my few opinions.
just my few opinions.
"What's it like to drive? I only had a couple of hours in the car during last week's press event, so I want to return to the car for a proper road test."
Lexus fans such as yourself can dish it out...which they have done for the past couple of years bashing the entire MB line for poor quality. Now they have to take the heat as there new technical marvel hits the road. Lexus is marketing this car as the greatest luxury vehicle ever made and to quote your comments..."and the car is not even on the road yet." Work both ways...
The S Class has received outstanding reviews and the car has been on the road almost a year now in EU and the USA. The S is still the leading luxury sedan and Lexus will have to "earn" it's position in that element, not have some commercial with a snob announcer telling us how great it is.
This is a MB S class thread so you have to expect some bias and agreement with the author...
09-03-2006, 01:50 AM
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Originally Posted by Nevada Jack
This is a MB S class thread so you have to expect some bias and agreement with the author...
well, either way, both are nice vehicles which I can't afford at the moment.
but I'd just wish the bashing on car forums would stop! I guess that's not possible. im just a hero wannabe saving the world...
for those of you interested (like me) in the new parking feature, heres a better clip (which shows that it doesnt take that long to let it park! the guy in the LA times video must've not touched the ok button properly):
http://youtube.com/watch?v=IkEu-PdVlK0
Last edited by johnsmercedes; 09-03-2006 at 02:13 AM.
09-03-2006, 02:15 PM
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Originally Posted by johnsmercedes
for those of you interested (like me) in the new parking feature, heres a better clip (which shows that it doesnt take that long to let it park! the guy in the LA times video must've not touched the ok button properly):
http://youtube.com/watch?v=IkEu-PdVlK0
http://youtube.com/watch?v=IkEu-PdVlK0
I think the rear parking camera guide on the S is pretty good for backing into side by side parking. I have not used the parallel system yet...too many colored lines and I think I could get it parked faster the old fashioned way...
09-03-2006, 03:44 PM
#41
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OK...I'm jumping in here for a second. My dad has a LS430. He spends more time driving Corola loaners than the Lexus. Seems like the A/C is always out and the car stranded him at least a dozen times...wouldn't start. Turns out after hearing about this I asked if the Lexus dealer had considered the neutral safety switch. Amazing discovery...bad neutral safety switch!! I'm trying to get him into a E320 CDI or an E500...I think he's ready. At 76 I think my Father has earned the the right to move up to an "Automobile" and quit driving just a "car".
09-04-2006, 07:32 PM
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I believe that the cars are completely different. I've driven both I must i love the S class more than the LS, the LS is a good car non the less. But to me the S 500 had more of a wow factor (pretty hard to do in a mini-limo) I do think that the LS is value for your money though. Do keep in mind the price difference as well, LS 430- 57K S 550- 86K, i think lexus is trying to get the people who want an S class or a 7 series but can't afford one. I do agree the LS needs a make over!
09-04-2006, 07:38 PM
#43
LS430 shouldn't be compared to the S550. The S550 is the newer generation model.
BTW - LS430 @ 57k$ is a bone stock one, you should get the Ultra Luxury package. It's a must, comes in at around 70k$ or so.
Possibly, but personal experience (probably skewed) has shown to me that most folks that get the LS get it not because it's cheaper, but because it's a different experience than a S-Class or a 7-Series. Usually the LS is rock solid reliability wise, it's a load more quiet, it doesn't jar the driver / operator, and the dealer service is excellent. It's something you buy because you don't want to worry about the rest of the things in life.
BTW - LS430 @ 57k$ is a bone stock one, you should get the Ultra Luxury package. It's a must, comes in at around 70k$ or so.
i think lexus is trying to get the people who want an S class or a 7 series but can't afford one
09-04-2006, 11:03 PM
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I like both cars but the S-class is more appealing to me. One thing that I don't like about the new Lex is that they seem pay more attention to the passengers in the back seats than in the front. Most of the times it just me and my wife that ride in our car and we both ride in the front. The Lex has that one seat that reclines and messages. If I am driving on a long distance trips it would suck that the only person that would be able to get a massage is the one who is sleep in the back. I think that the driver should be able to get the massage also. It would be nice to be able to get a rear seat entertainment package for the S-class, but I guess I could alway buy those little portable one for a few hundred bucks.
09-05-2006, 12:23 AM
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Originally Posted by ricky.agrawal
Usually the LS is rock solid reliability wise, it's a load more quiet, it doesn't jar the driver / operator, and the dealer service is excellent. It's something you buy because you don't want to worry about the rest of the things in life.
Check out the db levels in the S550 and you may be surprised.
09-05-2006, 12:35 AM
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Originally Posted by ricky.agrawal
Dealers in Houston suck.
09-06-2006, 04:33 AM
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As the matter of fact, Toyota is not that unfamiliar with this price range.
In Japan, typical Lexus LS cost around $55-60K (under Toyota brand), with a lot of standard features that considered as option for US one (i.e rear-view camera, parking sensor, rear-shade, rear-AC control, GPS...)
But that's not most expensive Toyota/Lexus model for the Japanese market. There's a model that sold exlusively in Japan only (and some of the riches in Middle East): Toyota Century, with fully loaded one run up to $200K more, with a year or two of waiting list (hand built) !!. The even better model: Toyota Century Royal run anywhere from $450-500K. Most of the richest of the rich in Japan ride in these cars, not in Rolls or Bentley or Maybach. These car have V12, all of the best techology and craftmanship. They're 4 door sedan, not limo, and they look conservative just as all of the expensive sedan out there. For the Century Royal model, only government officials, the royal family, or CEO/President of big corps get to ride in it, since Toyota get to select buyer (something Ferrari originally did to Enzo, but eventually failed, any punk w/ lot of cash can get one now as well). And with that kind of waiting list, I don't think there's heavy discount as the Maybach or SLR.
I'm sure none of the Toyota model would sit on top ten w/ hiphop gang. Funny that Dan Neil proudly claim Mercedes belong to that group, just as GM.
Let me put it this way: I buy a Lexus for my parent and my wife for peace of mind & luxury, but I get myself a Benz or Bimmer, I enjoy driving !!. I am not a big fan of Toyota luxury division (whatever name you wanna call it), but I think it deserve lot of respect, and it help to make the entire luxury segment better. Competition always help.
In Japan, typical Lexus LS cost around $55-60K (under Toyota brand), with a lot of standard features that considered as option for US one (i.e rear-view camera, parking sensor, rear-shade, rear-AC control, GPS...)
But that's not most expensive Toyota/Lexus model for the Japanese market. There's a model that sold exlusively in Japan only (and some of the riches in Middle East): Toyota Century, with fully loaded one run up to $200K more, with a year or two of waiting list (hand built) !!. The even better model: Toyota Century Royal run anywhere from $450-500K. Most of the richest of the rich in Japan ride in these cars, not in Rolls or Bentley or Maybach. These car have V12, all of the best techology and craftmanship. They're 4 door sedan, not limo, and they look conservative just as all of the expensive sedan out there. For the Century Royal model, only government officials, the royal family, or CEO/President of big corps get to ride in it, since Toyota get to select buyer (something Ferrari originally did to Enzo, but eventually failed, any punk w/ lot of cash can get one now as well). And with that kind of waiting list, I don't think there's heavy discount as the Maybach or SLR.
I'm sure none of the Toyota model would sit on top ten w/ hiphop gang. Funny that Dan Neil proudly claim Mercedes belong to that group, just as GM.
Let me put it this way: I buy a Lexus for my parent and my wife for peace of mind & luxury, but I get myself a Benz or Bimmer, I enjoy driving !!. I am not a big fan of Toyota luxury division (whatever name you wanna call it), but I think it deserve lot of respect, and it help to make the entire luxury segment better. Competition always help.
Yeah I've seen those cars before, they're awful looking and in this country they'd never sell. The Japanese's taste is aquired at best.
M
09-06-2006, 09:32 AM
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Yes, Japanese taste in cars is bizzare. They like them to look like something out of a cartoon. This is an MB forum, we like the way our cars look. Lexus forums like the way their cars look.
I'm always suprised how people assume that what they like is what everyone else likes. It reminds me of a condo board meeting where someone wanted to make it a rule that only "tasteful" holiday decorations may be placed on balconies.
I'm always suprised how people assume that what they like is what everyone else likes. It reminds me of a condo board meeting where someone wanted to make it a rule that only "tasteful" holiday decorations may be placed on balconies.
09-06-2006, 11:50 AM
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08' S550,,,C63!
Well I also have to post my opinion; I just got rid of my 745Li fully loaded for the GL 450. This is the best thing I have ever done getting rid of the BMW but now the S550 is a very similar car in looks but not in Quality and the LEXUS LS 460L which I have a deposit on is a totally different car and it's more reliable car compared to the MB and BMW which I have had lost of issues. I almost bought the S550 but the rear is almost like the 745Li and the dash as well. I personally got sick of the look and think the dash of the new Lexus, Front and rear is great looking.
