MB Fanatic

I love how he just shreds the entire company to nothing more than a piece of rubble.

http://www.latimes.com/classified/au...-home-highway1

Great read. Personally I have seen the car in person on the road and it looks the new Lexus ES. Its a garbage design that hasnt been thought through.

What the heck is it with only one seat completely reclining in the rear? Stupid Lexus err I mean Toyota.

Jetman

Great article. I couldn't agree more. I've never been a big Lexus (Toyota) fan, just because of their exterior styling. But then I rented the LS last week to drive from LA down to San Diego. After sitting and driving the car for 3 hours, I was even less impressed. It just has a cheapy kinda feel to it. Even though the materials (leather, wood, etc.) are high-end, the design makes for a "Camry" type feel. And what is up with the touch-screen Nav. It drove me crazy. The Nav won't allow you to input or change an address while driving, you have to be stopped. If I were a female, lost in one of the bad LA neighborhoods, I don't think I'd want to pull over at night in a high-end (supposedly) car and spend 2 -3 minutes getting the Nav set up. The car also had some stupid features. Like the center console air vents would move from side to side, it was absolutely useless. They would only move about 10 - 15 degrees out of center position which does nothing. Needless to say, I was happy to get back into my older 2002 S430. Even that felt a lot better and more luxurious to me than the Lexus. Like the article states, Lexus is a car for somebody who wants a reliable and sensible mode of transportation. Not for a car enthusiast or people looking for the ultimate in luxury.

MB Fanatic

An employee of mine bought a new 2006 LS430 with that ultra luxury crap or whatever. I had the opportnity to drive it during lunch and well it wallowed like a bloody pig, had horrible throttle response, and the seats were not to my liking for sure. The leather was way to shiny, and I felt disconnected from the road or the environment outside. Dont even get me started on how pathetic the AC system is on the car, its down right horrible. My Odyssey handles better and thats saying a lot.

I dont see how anyone could buy one of these cars.

D2-AUTOSPORT

I think you guys are kinda hard on the car, although its not a S600 by any means, I dont think it deserves a 'junk' rating either. Just my .02

MB Fanatic

I will give credit where its due. But tell me where there is something revolutionary on the LS? Its a hodge-poj (SP??) of styling and features from other cars.

vraa

I'm not defending the LS460 right now, just replying to your post

BTW in this quote, it's wrong. It's 30 gigabyte, gigabit implies 30/8gb of space, or more commonly known as 3.75gb of space. That's less than 1dvd.
I bolded what I thought was unique bout the LS. If I'm wrong, please correct me.

I think the LS600lh will be a great car. Will it be on the level of th S600? No way, not until Lexus can come up with a V12. There's just a mystique about having a V12 which changes your perspective 100%. All the techno-gadgets in the world can never serve as a replacement.. to displacement (and cylinders).

MB Fanatic

Ricky, thats great it has all those features, but lets be honest what is going to differentiate it from say a 7, S, or A8? It has bland styling, a very cluttered dash, a dismal interior, it looks drab and doesnt have the elegance and smooth lines of the S.

I dont need a car to park itself. My mothers S550 get about 22mpg so that point is moot at best. What is this you have to get the longbase edition to get 4 zone climate control? make it standard or an option on the regular wheelbase model. The 4.6 liter engine makes all its power up high with high rev's, which to me in LA is kind of useless, give me that power on tap like the S550. I have to pay extra for airbags? It should be standard if they want to compete with the S class. Hell premium sound should also be standard if they want to compete with the germans.

Sorry but Lexus fails again in design and execution. Sure it will sell in great numbers here in the US with its snazzy marketing and cheap appeal to the masses who can't afford a real car like the S. The LS will fail in Europe as well where the big 3 Germans and other European car makers simply trump the Lexus.

Lets face it Lexus will never appeal outside of NA, and in particular the US. Hell even many people in Japan are questioning why Toyota would sell a Lexus in Japan when all the same features could be had on a Toyota.

vraa

Once again, I'm not defending Lexus, I'm just going to respond to your points because I like you

MB Fanatic

Vishal, have you heard the HK Logic 7 DVD-A system in the S class. Amazing, trumps most DVD-A systems for vehicles out right now IMO. I didnt like my employees Mark Levinson much even after tweaking it a bit. Besides HK, Mark Levinson, JBL and all are owned by HK.

The lighting on the S is phenomenal both interior and exterior. I have yet to see some Xenon's come close to the light pattern and intensity with which these puppies can light up the night. The interior, well its gorgeous and even better in person than NevadaJack;s interior night shot in the garage.

I too am curious as to see how the LS600hl does against the S600, but as you said earlier, there is no replacement for displacement.

Braheem

Exclusivity comes from the root word "Exclude" from a business perspective that means less sales. If you think MBZ is intentionally willing to accept less sales

MBZ's has a reputation for prestige and status because it built quality cars that lasted 30+ years.

I'm not a paid to be a beta tester, give me a car that I can drive for 300K miles without ever having to go to the dealer and I'll buy it.

Braheem

BTW, I would not bother bringing up the Lexus non standard options issue when you're driving a benz

zam2000

I'm sure that Chrysler, ahemmm, I mean Mercedes, fan would be so proud of this paragraph from the author (right up there with GM)

"Consider that in a survey of brands mentioned by hip-hop artists in the 2005 Billboard Top 20 (a rough but handy measure of a brand's aspirational power), Lexus didn't even crack the top 50. Mercedes-Benz was No. 1, with Cadillac (3), Bentley (4), Rolls-Royce (5) and Chevrolet (7) in the Top 10."


Try to think a bit harder: to recline the seat, the front seat need to be push forward, (possibly from the rear seat controller), and do you want to do that to driver seat ???

You and some other on this forum trash anything that not Mercedes nor BMW (silly ???), FWIW, I wouldn't be too surprise to see your post stating that Mercedes fume smell better than one from Lexus.

This is a completed joke. Xenon light from Mercedes is one of the worst out there, of all high-end car that have xenon. I do custom lighting on car as a hobby. Mercedes use the cheapo Hella and Bosch projector for their xenon headlight, just average at best. The 2003-2006 Lexus LS uses the Stanley projector, which is head and shoulder better than the one used in Benz. Go to ebay, or HIDplanet forum, and see how much the going price of the Mercedes projector go for, and see that the one for Lexus LS cost 2-3 times as much as the Mercedes ones. The Lexus LS projector is the most sought after in the retro world, due to the insane amount of light that it produces.

You could put both the BMW-7 and E55 side by side, and the light they produce at night wouldn't be no where near the light one pair of the LS produce (retro into the Mercedes), all with standard xenon ballast & bulb.

hawk20

Funny you should say that. I have noticed that they do smell just that little bit sweeter.

MB Fanatic

Zam, lets face it your destiny is in a Lexus.

We currently own two W221's. An S550 and an S600. One of my uncles has a LS430 (2005) and IMO it has the worst light output out there. I want my light in front of me, not to the bloody side. Even ask Can Drive 55, he came from an LS430 to an E55.

Lets face it guys, the LS will only sell in the US and Canada. Outside that its garbage. If people in your own country (Japan) shunned the brand (Lexus) at first what makes you think they will do any better outside the US or Japan? Remember Lexus was started by Toyota to offer what Americans wanted, a cheap German car watered down in nearly every aspect and it still is. Give me an LS that looks as good as an S, drives like a 7, and has the pizzazz (sp??) of a german car and I will be the first one to sing its praises and go buy one. Until then, its really a moot point for ME.

MB Fanatic

I wasn't aware that Chrysler bought Mercedes Benz.

Perhaps you are not a fan of Dan Neil's work but if you ask me the article hit it right on spot for me at least and others quite possibly.

Nevada Jack

JD Powers (that collector of mis-information) has a question about the smell of the interior. Therefore, since Lexus uses the JD Powers questions as their build model...we can expect the Lexus to add some kind of automatic air freshener I guess.

vraa

To be honest I don't give a crap what others (JD Powers) say because different people have different criteria.

Just point of information; Lexus does have an air purifier in the LS (430 for sure, 460 as well) with some sort of 'deoderizer' where it uses some sort of laser to destroy molecules from what I've read.

Nevada Jack

Ricky...MB has had a purifier for years...

The point I was making is that Lexus builds their cars with the JD Powers checkoff list on the engineers drawing board. They should forget JD Powers, MB, BMW and whoever else they copy things from and build what they think is the best luxury car. Their "I can do anything you can do better" mentality is what keeps them from gaining some kind of self identity. Be an innovator like MB has been through the years...

vraa

I do agree with you, because Lexus has this mentality that they will 'beat the Germans at their own game' they won't get ahead.
See Nissan/Infiniti's method of doing it, it works well for the enthusiast because they are getting not only revolutionary technologies in their cars, but they are also appealing to the enthusiast.
However, Lexus' target audience isn't the enthusiast, maybe in 2008/9 when they introduce the LF-A supercar with 500hp, but right now, no.
The reason it's taken so long for them to come out with a 'V12' competitor is because they probably never saw that they had a viable market for it. 10 years ago, the 2nd generation LS just came out. 20 years ago, the Lexus was codenamed the F1 project and it was just a sparkle in someones eye and a dream in someones head. To see the progress they've made in the last 20 years is astounding. I wouldn't say they have the best cars yet, because as I said before, different people have different criteria, but I can confidently say they have created a strong competitor to the S430 and S500. As far as the W221 goes, the word is still out.

In my personal opinion which I've stated before, I don't think the LS460 will have the impact on the luxury car segment that the LS430 had. It just falls so short to so much hype, perhaps the LS600 will be different (consumers win with competition).

vraa

Nor was I. I guess I must've been living under a rock for a few years

I have heard it, my uncle just got a S550 and it's fantastic. Not to the balanced level of the Mark Levinson system in the LS430, but a good jump ahead from the W220's Bose (anything is a good jump ahead from Bose).
I don't know about output on the S550, haven't driven one at night, but the LS430's output is if not the best, one of the best. Zam gives good truth in his post as he does lighting as his hobby.

zam2000

You're right to the point. Target customer for Lexus and MBZ/BMW might be different. However, the impact that they create in the luxury car segment is VERY significant, they change the game the German had been playing for ages.

Lexus still make boring car, however, they don't seem to have much problem moving to the higher market & price tag. That's something even Mercedes fail to do: look at the Maybach and SLR, a disaster for Mercedes, both sell (new) at substantial discount.

edspider

I enjoyed reading these comments. My prior two cars were Lexus LS Ultras. I liked them both very much. They were very reliable and comfortable, but I got bored with them. I think the author summed it up well. I liked my LS, but I CHERISH my MB.

Braheem

The LS is like the good wife that's always by your side, may not be as flashy as your stripper G/F but she's always there whether you give her much attention or not.

Whereas the Benz is the stripper G/F that makes you look good in public, rides good when she's not acting up, she requires that you never miss any of the high maintenance on her and ALWAYS keeps you appreciating her by you knowing you cannot take her for granted. Have no doubt the day you cant afford to maintain her lifestyle she will leave you on the side of the road.

I suggest you get an LS for reliable, fuss free transportaion and a Benz to satisfy your mid-life crisis.

lkirchner

I tried the Lexus experiment as well. I had an SC430 and a LS430. Both are now happily gone and replaced withan SL55 and an E55. They were reliable appliances and boring as hell.

lkirchner

I tried the Lexus experiment as well. I had an SC430 and a LS430. Both are now happily gone and replaced withan SL55 and an E55. They were reliable appliances and boring as hell.

The one thing that I do miss is that the LS did blow air conditioned air out of the seats