oh dear...w221 convertible
11-02-2006, 07:12 PM
#27
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E220cdi Estate Avantgarde March 2008
And over here the suggestion is it will have a fast firing roll-over bar (or basket handle) fired out of where the parcel shelf would normally be behind the back seats. Activated as part of pre-safe but only in the event of a roll-over being sensed.
11-02-2006, 09:02 PM
#28
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SL/M6
Umm.... So you'd never buy an M-B again, even though you presumably have one that you like, because of a model you don't have to buy? Oookay then.
The answer is that 4-door convertible used to be very fashionable, very elitist things. Laundaulets and phaetons all spoke of prestige and wealth. Lincoln's Continental 4-door convertible was the premiere Lincoln vehicle in its time, and that was the last factory 4-door 'vertible. The reason to use the S-Class for the job is that it would be unique and uncompromising. Rich people don't like to be scrunched, and scrunched is the operative word for the rear seats on a CL. So, if you want the sun in your face and you carry passengers, a 4-door convertible would be the only choice. In the modern era of safe cars, 4-door cabrios present unique technical and safety challenges, and I'm sure M-B thinks that it would be a fantastic feather in their cap to be the first to build one to meet all regulations in forty years (Gennadis and the like don't have to be tested for crash purposes, etc.).
To those who pine for a hardtop: it's extremely unlikely. To store a folding metal roof of that size would probably consume the entire trunk of the car. Plus, it would be insanely complicated, and you'd be running even greater risks of jams and the like.
I doubt I'd want one, but it's sure to be an intriguing vehicle, regardless of whether they put it into production. Can't wait for Detroit to see for myself. For the very limited market niche, it should be a very exclusive and interesting choice.
The answer is that 4-door convertible used to be very fashionable, very elitist things. Laundaulets and phaetons all spoke of prestige and wealth. Lincoln's Continental 4-door convertible was the premiere Lincoln vehicle in its time, and that was the last factory 4-door 'vertible. The reason to use the S-Class for the job is that it would be unique and uncompromising. Rich people don't like to be scrunched, and scrunched is the operative word for the rear seats on a CL. So, if you want the sun in your face and you carry passengers, a 4-door convertible would be the only choice. In the modern era of safe cars, 4-door cabrios present unique technical and safety challenges, and I'm sure M-B thinks that it would be a fantastic feather in their cap to be the first to build one to meet all regulations in forty years (Gennadis and the like don't have to be tested for crash purposes, etc.).
To those who pine for a hardtop: it's extremely unlikely. To store a folding metal roof of that size would probably consume the entire trunk of the car. Plus, it would be insanely complicated, and you'd be running even greater risks of jams and the like.
I doubt I'd want one, but it's sure to be an intriguing vehicle, regardless of whether they put it into production. Can't wait for Detroit to see for myself. For the very limited market niche, it should be a very exclusive and interesting choice.
I really dont care about your little history review on the 4 door convertible or the sarcastic comment about a model I dont have to buy...I see every Mercedes on the road as a reflection of the brand...the problem is I am seeing too many of these variations for my tastes...
11-03-2006, 04:27 PM
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Im 26 years old so I havent been around long enough to truly appreciate the heritage MB brings to the table, but I have been an avid enthusiast of the silver star ever since I was a kid. I always loved Mercedes since they were elite, classy and hard to attain....they were appealing to me for the reason that they were a class above the competition...a rare site among numerous Hondas, Fords and VW's...I've almost had enough with Mercedes making 5 new models or whatever a year...if they make a S class, which has deep heritage as being a flagship of the German car industry, into a convertible and leave the front and rear the same as the current S550...it will be the last straw for me.
I really dont care about your little history review on the 4 door convertible or the sarcastic comment about a model I dont have to buy...I see every Mercedes on the road as a reflection of the brand...the problem is I am seeing too many of these variations for my tastes...
I really dont care about your little history review on the 4 door convertible or the sarcastic comment about a model I dont have to buy...I see every Mercedes on the road as a reflection of the brand...the problem is I am seeing too many of these variations for my tastes...
Originally Posted by cy0811
they share the same chassis, why would they use the 4 door instead of the super coupe...which would actually make sense?
As to the rest of it: good for you. We're all glad that you've been a fan of M-B's snob appeal since your not-too-distant childhood (not that I'm any older, but at least I'm not trying to sound like the Sultan of Brunei). If you're a fan of elitist brands staying elitist, perhaps you should go tell off Bentley, Ferrari, Lamborghini, Maybach, Porsche, and Rolls-Royce, too. Or you could complain about mainstream brands like Audi, BMW, Jaguar, Lexus, Saab, and Volvo, all of whom are coming down-market and segmenting rather extensively, JUST LIKE M-B. I'm sorry, this is probably sounding like another history lesson, and we know how much you like those. Just don't argue with me as to the facts of it, or you'll get what NevadaJack likes to call my "L version response."
To extend a courtesy that I'm sure you wouldn't return, that M-B has been engaging in proliferation to penetrate ever-small market niches is in fact a fair point. The USA certainly hasn't experienced the breadth of it, with multiple vans and MPVs, plus the A- and B-Classes. The R-Class is a bit of an odd duck, to be sure, but as long as the vehicle continues to offer M-B's traditional brand attributes, what, exactly, is the problem?
The problem of spreading a company cross-segment and down-market largely revolves around being able to preserve brand character. If one makes the argument based on the assertion that certain feature content levels are part of what makes M-B an M-B, then the assertion carries some weight, when one considers the C-Class Sport Coupe that, if I recall correctly, had cloth upholstery in a era when leather or leatherette is de rigeur in the industry.
On the other hand, and I hope that everyone can forgive the historical digression, M-B has a history with four-door convertibles, from the days of the 600 Landaulet. Its sales were extremely limited, but it was a near-supreme symbol of luxury and class in its day. So, complaining about M-B returning to what it used to do anyway is a particularly disingenuous argument.
Finally, I'm a little turned off by the whole formulation that says that M-B should be exclusive for the sake of exclusivity. NevadaJack and I spar occasionally about the S-Class, and whether it's the only worthy choice for a top-flight luxury car or not, but both of us recognise the car on the basis of its merits, and it is certainly one of the most luxurious cars in the world, which is why an S600 was able to beat a Rolls-Royce Phantom in a C/D comparo. In the end, I cannot buy the assertion that a brand's value is only as valuable as that brand's exclusivity, for as long as it retains exclusive low-volume models (such as the S600 and the like), the exclusivity is preserved for those who prize such things. True automotive connoisseurs will be able to appreciate the cars for what they are. In other words, the C-Class does not cheapen the S-Class, except to those too ill-informed to be able to tell the difference. And, if one is only buying an M-B in order to impress such people, then I would argue that one is displaying the worst traits of the nouveau riche, as well as displaying no small amount of insecurity. Buying a Benz just for the sake of owning a rolling status symbol is to display a woeful disregard for that which really makes a Mercedes what it is: road presence, premium feature content, and above all, German panzer-grade engineering. If M-B can build all of that into a wider range of models, then more power to them. If that makes more people come to appreciate the M-B brand dynamic, then that is all for the good. In an era where the marketing and configuration of the luxury market is changing at a rate almost never before seen, staying on top of market trends is the only way for companies to survive and prosper.
By all means, go ahead and whine about it, though. Just try to find a company not doing the same thing. And if variety, "the spice of life", bothers you so much, find a hole in which to crawl, because that's just the way the car industry is these days. BUT, if you like the S-Class sedan, just buy it, and don't worry about whether there's a convertible or not, because how does that impact your S-Class ownership?
11-03-2006, 04:45 PM
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2011 E350 Cabriolet..White and Almond Mocha
If this is the S version...this guy is in for a treat with the L version....:-)
You touched on this briefly but MB has been and is the GM of Europe...a car for everyone in the chain, including the taxi drivers. A full line is not new to Europeans but it is to Americans. Smart is coming....LOL
You touched on this briefly but MB has been and is the GM of Europe...a car for everyone in the chain, including the taxi drivers. A full line is not new to Europeans but it is to Americans. Smart is coming....LOL
11-07-2006, 01:20 AM
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SL/M6
I really don't care if you care about my history review or not. It wasn't written just for you, but for anyone who might want to know about 4-door 'verts. But, I will point out: YOU ASKED.
So, on a forum, don't ask a question if you don't want someone to provide an answer. I can't tell from your original post whether you'd object to a convertible CL-Class, but one might reasonably wonder: if you don't, why not? Why would it make sense to do a CL convertible, but not do it on the S-Class in addition or instead? Presumably, a CL-Class would have the same general styling as the coupe. It would also be likely to be a rag-top. So what's the difference?
As to the rest of it: good for you. We're all glad that you've been a fan of M-B's snob appeal since your not-too-distant childhood (not that I'm any older, but at least I'm not trying to sound like the Sultan of Brunei). If you're a fan of elitist brands staying elitist, perhaps you should go tell off Bentley, Ferrari, Lamborghini, Maybach, Porsche, and Rolls-Royce, too. Or you could complain about mainstream brands like Audi, BMW, Jaguar, Lexus, Saab, and Volvo, all of whom are coming down-market and segmenting rather extensively, JUST LIKE M-B. I'm sorry, this is probably sounding like another history lesson, and we know how much you like those. Just don't argue with me as to the facts of it, or you'll get what NevadaJack likes to call my "L version response."
To extend a courtesy that I'm sure you wouldn't return, that M-B has been engaging in proliferation to penetrate ever-small market niches is in fact a fair point. The USA certainly hasn't experienced the breadth of it, with multiple vans and MPVs, plus the A- and B-Classes. The R-Class is a bit of an odd duck, to be sure, but as long as the vehicle continues to offer M-B's traditional brand attributes, what, exactly, is the problem?
The problem of spreading a company cross-segment and down-market largely revolves around being able to preserve brand character. If one makes the argument based on the assertion that certain feature content levels are part of what makes M-B an M-B, then the assertion carries some weight, when one considers the C-Class Sport Coupe that, if I recall correctly, had cloth upholstery in a era when leather or leatherette is de rigeur in the industry.
On the other hand, and I hope that everyone can forgive the historical digression, M-B has a history with four-door convertibles, from the days of the 600 Landaulet. Its sales were extremely limited, but it was a near-supreme symbol of luxury and class in its day. So, complaining about M-B returning to what it used to do anyway is a particularly disingenuous argument.
Finally, I'm a little turned off by the whole formulation that says that M-B should be exclusive for the sake of exclusivity. NevadaJack and I spar occasionally about the S-Class, and whether it's the only worthy choice for a top-flight luxury car or not, but both of us recognise the car on the basis of its merits, and it is certainly one of the most luxurious cars in the world, which is why an S600 was able to beat a Rolls-Royce Phantom in a C/D comparo. In the end, I cannot buy the assertion that a brand's value is only as valuable as that brand's exclusivity, for as long as it retains exclusive low-volume models (such as the S600 and the like), the exclusivity is preserved for those who prize such things. True automotive connoisseurs will be able to appreciate the cars for what they are. In other words, the C-Class does not cheapen the S-Class, except to those too ill-informed to be able to tell the difference. And, if one is only buying an M-B in order to impress such people, then I would argue that one is displaying the worst traits of the nouveau riche, as well as displaying no small amount of insecurity. Buying a Benz just for the sake of owning a rolling status symbol is to display a woeful disregard for that which really makes a Mercedes what it is: road presence, premium feature content, and above all, German panzer-grade engineering. If M-B can build all of that into a wider range of models, then more power to them. If that makes more people come to appreciate the M-B brand dynamic, then that is all for the good. In an era where the marketing and configuration of the luxury market is changing at a rate almost never before seen, staying on top of market trends is the only way for companies to survive and prosper.
By all means, go ahead and whine about it, though. Just try to find a company not doing the same thing. And if variety, "the spice of life", bothers you so much, find a hole in which to crawl, because that's just the way the car industry is these days. BUT, if you like the S-Class sedan, just buy it, and don't worry about whether there's a convertible or not, because how does that impact your S-Class ownership?
So, on a forum, don't ask a question if you don't want someone to provide an answer. I can't tell from your original post whether you'd object to a convertible CL-Class, but one might reasonably wonder: if you don't, why not? Why would it make sense to do a CL convertible, but not do it on the S-Class in addition or instead? Presumably, a CL-Class would have the same general styling as the coupe. It would also be likely to be a rag-top. So what's the difference?
As to the rest of it: good for you. We're all glad that you've been a fan of M-B's snob appeal since your not-too-distant childhood (not that I'm any older, but at least I'm not trying to sound like the Sultan of Brunei). If you're a fan of elitist brands staying elitist, perhaps you should go tell off Bentley, Ferrari, Lamborghini, Maybach, Porsche, and Rolls-Royce, too. Or you could complain about mainstream brands like Audi, BMW, Jaguar, Lexus, Saab, and Volvo, all of whom are coming down-market and segmenting rather extensively, JUST LIKE M-B. I'm sorry, this is probably sounding like another history lesson, and we know how much you like those. Just don't argue with me as to the facts of it, or you'll get what NevadaJack likes to call my "L version response."
To extend a courtesy that I'm sure you wouldn't return, that M-B has been engaging in proliferation to penetrate ever-small market niches is in fact a fair point. The USA certainly hasn't experienced the breadth of it, with multiple vans and MPVs, plus the A- and B-Classes. The R-Class is a bit of an odd duck, to be sure, but as long as the vehicle continues to offer M-B's traditional brand attributes, what, exactly, is the problem?
The problem of spreading a company cross-segment and down-market largely revolves around being able to preserve brand character. If one makes the argument based on the assertion that certain feature content levels are part of what makes M-B an M-B, then the assertion carries some weight, when one considers the C-Class Sport Coupe that, if I recall correctly, had cloth upholstery in a era when leather or leatherette is de rigeur in the industry.
On the other hand, and I hope that everyone can forgive the historical digression, M-B has a history with four-door convertibles, from the days of the 600 Landaulet. Its sales were extremely limited, but it was a near-supreme symbol of luxury and class in its day. So, complaining about M-B returning to what it used to do anyway is a particularly disingenuous argument.
Finally, I'm a little turned off by the whole formulation that says that M-B should be exclusive for the sake of exclusivity. NevadaJack and I spar occasionally about the S-Class, and whether it's the only worthy choice for a top-flight luxury car or not, but both of us recognise the car on the basis of its merits, and it is certainly one of the most luxurious cars in the world, which is why an S600 was able to beat a Rolls-Royce Phantom in a C/D comparo. In the end, I cannot buy the assertion that a brand's value is only as valuable as that brand's exclusivity, for as long as it retains exclusive low-volume models (such as the S600 and the like), the exclusivity is preserved for those who prize such things. True automotive connoisseurs will be able to appreciate the cars for what they are. In other words, the C-Class does not cheapen the S-Class, except to those too ill-informed to be able to tell the difference. And, if one is only buying an M-B in order to impress such people, then I would argue that one is displaying the worst traits of the nouveau riche, as well as displaying no small amount of insecurity. Buying a Benz just for the sake of owning a rolling status symbol is to display a woeful disregard for that which really makes a Mercedes what it is: road presence, premium feature content, and above all, German panzer-grade engineering. If M-B can build all of that into a wider range of models, then more power to them. If that makes more people come to appreciate the M-B brand dynamic, then that is all for the good. In an era where the marketing and configuration of the luxury market is changing at a rate almost never before seen, staying on top of market trends is the only way for companies to survive and prosper.
By all means, go ahead and whine about it, though. Just try to find a company not doing the same thing. And if variety, "the spice of life", bothers you so much, find a hole in which to crawl, because that's just the way the car industry is these days. BUT, if you like the S-Class sedan, just buy it, and don't worry about whether there's a convertible or not, because how does that impact your S-Class ownership?
You have wayyyy too much time on your hands pal...but thanks again for the history review and all the BS sarcastic nonsense. Either way MB has too many models for my taste and you really need to get over yourself and get a g/f or wife. =)
11-07-2006, 03:03 AM
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S-class goes topless, and it’s a ragtop.
November 2006
A convertible version of Mercedes-Benz’s S-class luxury sedan might be on its way to production. Expected to debut as a concept vehicle at the Detroit show in January, the cabrio will eschew a retractable hardtop in place of a traditional clothtop. If it makes it into production, the S-class cabrio is likely a year away from showrooms.
http://www.caranddriver.com/carnews/...nvertible.html
11-07-2006, 07:06 AM
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2001 Lorinser Edition CL600 (SOLD)
Well, big-time customizing looks as if it's made its way from those humble 80s origins as one-off chops and drops done in obscure bodyshops and remote regions in Germany's aftermarket trade to the big leagues and into the production lines now. And all I can say is that they're really doing a great job driving me absolutely nuts!
Before, you had to take your car to a place that specialized in aftermarket conversions, paying almost as much for it as the car, but now it's FACTORY which is always better, BUT - it makes deciding on what you want next that much harder! Just when you though you wanted just a nice regular S-class, they keep coming up with something else to win you over. So many variants, so little time! Back in the day, you chose from 2 or 3 models, do I go with the SL, the SEC, or the SEL. Simple, in and out in a day. Now, you have to go to a shrink just because you can't decide what's the coolest because there's 8 million different engine sizes, options, hard top or cab, etc., etc.
In any case, I believe this nicely designed variant will go into production and be a big splash. Just my gut. So will the CL coupe and Maybach - in the coupe version. Also the SLR will soon be available as a roadster. Why only have the cheap, lower end (I hate to say, but I will) CRAP and the SL be the only droptops in the Mercedes lineup?
Crazzzeee!
All the high-end makers are offering multiple variants of their ranges now because of a much broader affluent segment and more financing options.
As a young guy who started out as an avid Benz and aftermarket enthusiast in the mid 80s, I can hardly believe my eyes what's out there now and what's about to come. The menu just keeps getting richer and the sky's the limit if you want to spend the money. There were 4-door cabriolet aftermarket conversions done back in the 80s, but they were rather crude and took away the chassis rigidity unless you spent $50K or more. You could never get your money out of them. Plus the boot lid wasn't nice and flush. I should know - I owned an SEC cabriolet in the early 90s! It was one of the better conversions, but still a pain and nothing like the ones available on the SL today. I though I'd post this old pic for some nostalgia...and a few laughs...
All in all, my vote is a....yes, why not. Drive me nuts again. Push it to the limit and do one as an S65 with a Renntech modded powerplant with 900 hp, customized interior with computer monitors, 22" deep dish rims, bulletproof, etc. Just put me outta my misery!
Before, you had to take your car to a place that specialized in aftermarket conversions, paying almost as much for it as the car, but now it's FACTORY which is always better, BUT - it makes deciding on what you want next that much harder! Just when you though you wanted just a nice regular S-class, they keep coming up with something else to win you over. So many variants, so little time! Back in the day, you chose from 2 or 3 models, do I go with the SL, the SEC, or the SEL. Simple, in and out in a day. Now, you have to go to a shrink just because you can't decide what's the coolest because there's 8 million different engine sizes, options, hard top or cab, etc., etc.
In any case, I believe this nicely designed variant will go into production and be a big splash. Just my gut. So will the CL coupe and Maybach - in the coupe version. Also the SLR will soon be available as a roadster. Why only have the cheap, lower end (I hate to say, but I will) CRAP and the SL be the only droptops in the Mercedes lineup?
Crazzzeee!
All the high-end makers are offering multiple variants of their ranges now because of a much broader affluent segment and more financing options.
As a young guy who started out as an avid Benz and aftermarket enthusiast in the mid 80s, I can hardly believe my eyes what's out there now and what's about to come. The menu just keeps getting richer and the sky's the limit if you want to spend the money. There were 4-door cabriolet aftermarket conversions done back in the 80s, but they were rather crude and took away the chassis rigidity unless you spent $50K or more. You could never get your money out of them. Plus the boot lid wasn't nice and flush. I should know - I owned an SEC cabriolet in the early 90s! It was one of the better conversions, but still a pain and nothing like the ones available on the SL today. I though I'd post this old pic for some nostalgia...and a few laughs...
All in all, my vote is a....yes, why not. Drive me nuts again. Push it to the limit and do one as an S65 with a Renntech modded powerplant with 900 hp, customized interior with computer monitors, 22" deep dish rims, bulletproof, etc. Just put me outta my misery!
Last edited by CLFREAK; 11-07-2006 at 07:27 AM.
11-07-2006, 05:05 PM
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2001 VW Jetta GLX VR6
11-08-2006, 05:42 AM
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SL/M6
Just messing with you bro...
I will have to see the final product (which I still dont think will come out into production)...but like I said: I know MB is like GM abroad- I just liked the whole MB mystic of the early 90's, when the R129 was King and even a E class was sort of a big deal. But I guess more models makes it possible for more AMG cars and more high end SLR stuff...but I still dont like the idea of owning a 100k S550 and seeing a giant soft top 4door version with the same front and rear. It doesn't sit right with me for some reason, but maybe I was overreacting...
I will have to see the final product (which I still dont think will come out into production)...but like I said: I know MB is like GM abroad- I just liked the whole MB mystic of the early 90's, when the R129 was King and even a E class was sort of a big deal. But I guess more models makes it possible for more AMG cars and more high end SLR stuff...but I still dont like the idea of owning a 100k S550 and seeing a giant soft top 4door version with the same front and rear. It doesn't sit right with me for some reason, but maybe I was overreacting...
12-02-2006, 08:00 AM
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Stage 2 C7 A6, QX60
S-class goes topless, and it’s a ragtop.
November 2006
A convertible version of Mercedes-Benz’s S-class luxury sedan might be on its way to production. Expected to debut as a concept vehicle at the Detroit show in January, the cabrio will eschew a retractable hardtop in place of a traditional clothtop. If it makes it into production, the S-class cabrio is likely a year away from showrooms.
http://www.caranddriver.com/carnews/...nvertible.html
