rkao

I think it's interesting that no one has mentioned the possibility that MB USA (not sure if the AMG Sport package is available to the S600 in other markets, so I'll limit my scope to the U.S. market) that the S600, if it were available with the AMG kit, could in fact cannibalize the S65.

At a quick glance, the S65's and S600's basic specs (twin turbo V12s) are similar enough that adding the AMG Sport package to the S600 would confuse buyers, the market, and probably the dealers. And given that most W221 owners are not the enthusiasts that we are on this forum, they may not see the value or advantage of the S65 over an S600 that looks like an S65.

If the S65 is to be the halo product of the W221 range, then the AMG package on the S600 would surely take away the shine from the S65?

Discuss...

Ted Baldwin

............You are correct in nothing that the S600 is closer in performance to the S65 than to the S63. However Mb did have AMG package for the W220 S600. So, the lack of AMG package in the W221 S600 is infact new. In the w220 series they were able to differentiate the S600 from the S65 by using dual eshausts for the former and quad exhausts for the later. It makes absolutely no sense that the AMK package is available for the W221 S550 but not the S600.

........and for individuals like Buffer who don't care about AMG, all you do is get yoursellf your S600 and don't order the AMG pasckage. So, I don't think this is really a serious reason not to have the AMK package available for the W221 S600.

Ted

carsinamerica

I think you're right. I've said before that the 65 don't offer enough additional performance, thanks to the difficulty of transmitting power to the road, to warrant the premium over the 600 models. As said in another thread, the 63 will appeal to those who want a lighter car at the front, with sharper-tuned handling and a sporty, high-revving engine, while the 600 appeals to those who want a brilliant cruiser that can thunder ahead seamlessly. The 65 seems excessive by comparison.

As to other markets, you can certainly get the AMG kit in England on the S600, just as you could on the '06 S600 (even when the S65 was around). One W221 S600 AMG Sport Pkg. vehicle showed up in the States as a demonstrator, but it had a lot of equipment stripped from it.

Vadim @ FD

Once in awhile MB will do a favor for a high-volume dealer and make a special car. Supposedly there is a S600 with AMG sport package coming in for a local customer.

Ted Baldwin

..............of course the S65 is overkill. That is the whole point!!! Same for the G55, etc. If there was a G65 same group of people will buy it. If you had a G63 and a G65, no one will buy the G63. People will either buy the G500 or the G65. These cars are not made for the average buyer. The average S class lover will buy the S550 and will be quite content. The person that wants overkill, will buy the S65. Very few people will be in between.

Ted

tee_tz

There you go... S600 w/ AMG Package.
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/Merce...mZ220049425197



My take on the issue is pretty straightforward, the S600 and S63 are almost equivalent in performance, but the S600 offers luxury while the S63 offers a sporty ride (obviously, it's an AMG). But I think there's no comparison between a V8 Supercharged Engine and a V12 Naturally-Aspirated Engine, I mean the power and the response of a V12 is in a class of it's own! Plus, you get the prestige of saying "I drive a V12" (hence the Mercedes "V12" badging all over the car), and there's very few other cars that can boast that.


Tee_Tz.

Ted Baldwin

............yes except that the S63 is NOT supercharged. It is NA V8. Further the current S600 is a twin turbo V12. Yes there is no comparison between a NA V8 (S63)and a twin turbocharged V12(S600). The S600 is the superior car without much debate. The debate only exists to the limited extent that it does, beacuse the S63 is an AMG car. I am not feeling you on the prestige or badging issue. AMG cars are not exactly without prestige.

.........beyond that, you have posted a link to an S600 with AMG kit, so we maybe debating a mute point. There are apparently S600's with AMG kits for those that want it.

Ted

pmb600

I think that was installed by the dealership. It has the slits on the side like the S65 AMG bodywork. A normal AMG Sport Package would not have that.

There was only one 2007 S600 with Sport Package that I know of. It was an early build so it is missing most of the other standard equippment, but one thing it does have is the AMG Sport Package. I saw it on ebay a while back. The other difference I see on this car is that the grille ribs are grey instead of black. These are some pics they had up:

tee_tz

Hence, I was putting up the link to confirm that the AMG-Package does exist for the S600, although not factory built.

Secondly, any S-Class has prestige (S550; S63; S65; or S600), however, I think we'd agree that the S600 still remains the flagship of Mercedes and that prestige along with being the only V12 in the Mercedes collection makes it more prestigious (if I may) than the AMG counterpart (S63). Lastly, I was pointing out that while performance is relatively the same between both, there is a major difference between both cars - therefore, an S600 with an AMG Body Package is still very different with a S63.


Tee_Tz.

tee_tz

I guess there was more than 1 built (refer to the black one above). But are the body panels from the S65 different from those of a S550 Sport?


Tee_Tz.

Schiznick

I wish they would not put an AMG sport package on any Mercedes.....

pmb600

I meant there was only 1 factory built one. The black one from Glauser I think was put on at the dealership. No the body panels are not different on the S65, but the lower bodywork, the "AMG portion" is differnet on the AMG cars from the AMG Package.

tee_tz

Um, why?

pmb600 - Oh that's interesting, I didn't know they did that one from the factory. Also, I didn't know that the AMG cars' body panels were different from the AMG package. I guess the differences aren't too noticeable.


Tee_Tz.

pmb600

Yeah they are very subtle differences between the body panels. I think that the AMG from the factory on the S600 was a one time only thing for that car. When I asked about it, they said it was an early build and a lot of equipment wasn't yet available. I think it was a demo or something.

Ted Baldwin

........I guess I don't understand what you are saying. Is the S65 not the flagship rather than the S600?


Ted

carsinamerica

You can get it ex-factory, but you have to be from somewhere other than NA, I guess. It's an odd thing.

Buffer

I think the whole S-Class series is referred to as the flagship series. Wikipedia says this. "The Mercedes-Benz S-Class is the common description for a series of large luxury flagship sedans produced by Mercedes-Benz, a division of Daimler-Chrysler." Ergo, an S-550 would be a MB flagship sedan...as well as the others.

jimand7

put it this way when I bought my cl600 2007 the reason I did not wait for the 63 is because it will be slower. alot slower. torque is what will move a 2+ton car and the torque difference is HUGE. I also would bet that the 2006 s55 would smoke a s63 due to the difference in torque. if you go to the 55 board you wil see that the dyno results show the e55 engine not only has more HP but more torque. and the 600? not even close.
DO not believe what the factory says the factory wants to keep everything in the "right' order but it is not necessarily the case.
Case in point the 55 engine in the E55 and the '06 "S" were the exact same even though MB claimed the S had 25 some odd more power due to exhasut or some BS. not true. they just wanted to make the S the KING.
my 600 will smoke a 63 at all speeds from a dig and on the highway that is a fact!!!! not to mention the 600 is WAY more tunable to make it compete with the 65. For 6k renntech will give it 600hp and 700+ torgue!
maybe a brabus kit?

but back to the original post...I posted something about taht ahile back....it is horsesh*t that they did not offer the sports package....the 63 is a DUMB choice for those looking for an S

Germancar1

First of all the N/A S55 had its doors blown off by the supercharged S55 and it was a facelifted model. There are people who will complain until the day they die about a new car being better than the one they just bought. Car makers make changes to cars, thats life get over it. That situation has nothing to do with the S63 and S600 and whether or not the S600 has a AMG body kit.

If you can't understand that the S600 and S63 drive differently, develop their power differently, have a somewhat different interior then there is no helping you. The S63 will no doubt be lighter and yes someone who is buying a S63 over a S600 is more likely to be concerned about how it drives compared to the luxury-first S600 buyer. Its really quite simple.

If you really think no one is going to buy a S63 because of what the 2010-11 model will be then you've lost the plot Ted.

M

Germancar1

You reading this Ted?

M

pmb600

Good explanation, thank you.

pmb600

You should check up on Mercedes history as to why the 600 is the flagship. The 600 number means something very special, it refers to a group of cars made back in the late 60s and early 70s.

The 600 has not been a 6.0 liter engine since the W140 and R129 models. They kept the nomenclature because of the meaning it signifies.

Uygar

I saw the price of S 600 in previous messages, $138,000. Yes; it's expensive but it is really cheap when you compare with price of a S 600 in Turkey. We have quite high tax rate on imported cars for that reason prices are boosting. The official price of a S 600 with standard equipment no amg bodykit or anything else. It is € 278,400 = $ 367,905. I am not kidding, this is the real price of a S600. So, people buy S 500 which is cheaper S 500 4matic Long: $ 252,406

Mercedes22

In the UK the S65 is $ 290,730.00 standard

The S600 is $ 204,000.00 standard

The S550 is $ 147,630.00 standard

Ted Baldwin

............Mercedes bought AMG in the late 1990's. Prior that AMG was independent. Since them AMG vehicles have become Mercedes' flagship. Companies evolve and improve.

Ted