cjf_moraga

I took my wife's Lexus RX330 in for a service today and while waiting had time to examine and test drive an LS600h... a good opportunity to directly compare it with my new 2008 S600. I did not consider the LS600h as I wanted a more performance and driver oriented luxury vehicle and there is a wait list also it seems... However I do appreciate what Lexus has achieved (certainly as competition for MB) and the LS600h certainly appears commendably innovative... there is a $20K to $30K price differential to be sure, but with the obvious "600" tag the LS600h is targeting the S600 directly and the whole rear section of the brochure is dedicated to a point by point comparison with the S600...

I was really surprised how very far short of the S600 the LS600h falls... Perhaps I should not have been, but it is way off the mark compared to - say the standard LS460 compared with the S550. Though I have previously owned 5 MB's, I have previously owned 3 Lexus and appreciate them for their own qualities.

Based on the Lexus record to date my expectations were reasonable... At the very least I was expecting to drive a veritable temple of silence in complete luxury... on a rough freeway surface however the interior was pretty noisy - considerably more so than my S600 on exactly the same stretch of road.. (Perhaps it is all the extra weight of batteries) The driving dynamics were surprisingly poor also. (Again perhaps it is the weight) the S-Class ABC especially is something I am really beginning to really appreciate - especially around tight corners. Trying exactly the same maneuvers in the LS600h feels much less controlled and composed.

Above all the performance of the LS600h was extremely underwhelming compared to a V12... OK I know that you do not buy an LS for performance, but the V8 and electric motor combination is hitting 438 hp.. I certainly could not feel it...I was hoping that the electric motor would deliver a tangible or unique feeling torque-wise... but there is no real sense of the electric motor at all... the entertaining power-train diagram on the display unit aside, it is all very numb and un-involving... and in the 50-70 mph overtaking range especially, the LS600 is extremely underpowered compared with the V12 S600. I just could not manoeuver with the same confidence.

What about the interior? Personally, it escapes me how anyone with any sense of design, composition, and ergonomic placement can like the interior of an Lexus LS600h... to me the control layount is extremely confused with buttons all over the place... perhaps there is a logic but from an integral design perspective? Compared with the all-leather, alcantara, and wood S600 interior I was also surprised at the plastic (and if it is not it sure looks it) chrome surrounding the navigation panel and the obvious plastic areas on the doors and dash. Then there are these politically correct "eco" cues in/on the car like a little globe on the the temperature gauge background, a gauge showing how "eco" the car is in different power modes, hybrid badges etc... like the designers were reading a Greenpeace style guide... It's all rather cynical... This is a big sedan with leather seats that drinks 20/22 mpg!

Though the salesman continually criticized Germanic iDrive/COMMAND hand controllers, the Mercedes version is at least simple and an integral component of an uncluttered and extremely well thought out interior. In fact the more I look at the S-Class the more sinple and elegant it appears both inside and out - designed as an integral whole and not just assembled... Considering factors of balance and design execution, the LS600h feels very superficial and "out of balance" An LS460 with a hybrid powertrain and batteries squeezed in the trunk... and you really have to look in the trunk to see how small that is...

It is not my intention to trash the LS600h... A test drive is not the same as living with a vehicle... but informed first impressions do count for something, and in challenging the S600 the LS600h has high standards to meet. As a current and former Lexus owner I was willing to be impressed.. and it is a measure of how underwhelmed I am that (fresh from the experience) my comments probably appear harsh. Perhaps more so because I know Lexus can be really good when it targets a niche correctly. (The RX and standard LS460 are fine cars for example) I don't see how an LS600h can remotely be regarded as a competitor to an S600 - frankly as a car (Not even going into cachet) it is not remotely in the same league.

OK that feels better. I just had to get that outa me...

Chris

cmcjo

Nice reveiw. THere really is not a car that I would choose over the S600 except maybe the 65. I had a Bentely to see if it was better than the S600for 4 days and the cars are not to be compared. The only thing that the Betley had on the S600 was the elegant interior. That is it though. The ride, performance, comfort and cabin feel where way better in the S.

carsnob

Chris; good analysis. I couldn't explain why I hate Lexus's (Lexi?) but they just remind me of over the top Toyotas. They just want to have everything a Mercedes has and just aren't the same. I just heard of an older Chinese man who waited a long time for his S 600 order to come through. Then after 1000 miles he turned it back into the dealer. "Too fast" apparently. He then got a Lexus...

bzliteyear

$100k from Toyota will not work for more than a few hundred units(how many Acura NSX did they sell during the last few years? less than 100/yr?).

Heck, even MB has a tough time doing $100k+ cars in volume w/o trashing resale. the truth is that most people spend $100k+ for exclusivity and that's why having the LS600 on backorder is what's making it unique - not really that it's such an amazing car, imho. after all, we've all seen exotic cars being driven around surface streets going 40mph even though it doesn't make any sense.
p.s. i've seen many ferrari and lambo's cruising around orinda/lafayette/morga...perhaps i will spot your S600 too, LOL.
Patrick

LETO

good write up. I agree with the lexus sea op plastic button mess....makes one wish for even BMW's absolute crap i-drive. The existance of the LS600h blows my mind. Crap trunk space, worse mileage than a S550. The gimmicy reclining seat that only works when there is no passenger in the front seat, I could go on......

trumpet1

I didn't know the reclining feature was blocked by a front passenger! Makes very little sense. Looks like they would have blocked the front seat from going too far back in times when the rear seat is reclined. I've never test- driven a Lexus LS. May give it a try this week out of curiosity. I'll have to drive the truck to the dealership though. The S class usually diverts everyone's attention from their own cars and I end up leaving from the harrassment of questions like , "Can we look at your car?", or some other shopper is totally blown away at the S class and never continues with what they were doing as I end up being a car salesman in the end.

BTW, the original post on this thread was a great write up.

LETO

The controls for the rear seat massage are housed in the rear center arm rest and it looks like it belongs to one of those chair massagers you see at a mall kiosk. There is a rear seat entertainment system but it is a flip down screen from the cieling (i personally feel that flip down screens make for awful viewing angles and just result in a knot in your neck. The rear seat audio & heat/ cool controls are located at the front of the armrest and look like a overcomplicated after market stereo system. Car magazines tend to knock controllers like command and i-drive, buit it is just as complicated if not more to fish out specific buttons for specific tasks

the reason the reclining seat works in the maybach for example is cause it is as long as a house

WSH

Thx for the insights, cjf

Suspect many buyers don't even realize how much safer a new S600 is than any LS.....consider which car one would want to pilot in any emergency maneuver on fwy (steering/chassis/brakes/stability controls/BrakeAssist, etc etc).....and which has more innovative/robust passive safety features (seat structures/head restraints; does Lexus even have a TeleAid-like feature?, etc).....

Mfrs that don't have high-speed autobahn driving (and the associated signif safety risks) in their DNA prob struggle to really engineer class-leading active/passive safety.....

Haven't seen any crash test data for S or LS....but crash tests don't capture active safety....or many aspects of real-world passive safety, e.g., roof strength in rollover, ability of seat structures/active head restraints to prevent neck/spinal injuries in SUV vs side of car...or being rear-ended on a high-speed freeway, etc...

Agree...interior of 600 spoils one for many (any) other car(s).....my CL63 interior looks plasticky vs my prior CL600....Lex/BMW/Audi/Porsche are also rather plasticky w/many ugly blk plastic buttons.....and cars w/allegedly great leather/stitching, etc (like Ferrari/Bent/AM, etc) uniformly have many cheap econobox interior touches in terms of plastic buttons, non-ergonomic power seat controls, cheap door handles/key fobs, etc.....and often lack many of the comfort/safety innovations of MB like advanced headlight systems, ventil/massaging seats, TeleAid, RTT, etc etc....

Often need to test-drive other brands/model lines to fully appreciate how brilliantly engineered are the latest S/CL-Class cars....like any car, they have weaknesses, but would argue their overall positives dwarf those of any other car available today....always amused when guys cite impressive perf stats for some car like 599 and don't risk-adjust that data for its laughable passive safety....or when guys talk about "bespoke"/special Bents/AM....and can't explain away all the ugly VW/Ford plastic in the interior; lack of many modern luxury/comfort features; and "predictable" VW/Ford drivetrain/safety engineering...

trumpet1

You really think so? I owned two of the W215s and although they were great cars, I find the new CLs are far superior in trim quality especially the inside.

Z356

I test drove last week the 2008 LS460 and the LS460 L. The latter has the air suspension which should more closely resemble the S550. Since I don't yet own a new S class, I will refrain from comparisons on ride quality. But I was thoroughly disappointed with the interior materials and design. First, I am convinced that the interiors of the just-replaced LS430 looked and felt more luxurious. The older model had a lighter, golden-oak color wood option which made that interior extremely 'rich' looking. That wood is no longer available and the new interior woods are dark & foreboding. Lexus leather has always been more 'plastic' looking than that of Mercedes (I had an LS400 back in the 90s so I remember well), but the ones I saw on the new LS460 were particularly 'fake-looking'. It could have even fooled Ricardo Montalbán into thinking this was the new version of Corinthian leather. The exterior design (especially the rear) has been homogenized to look like the Avalon or Camry from the parent company. The lack of massage function in the front (but its availability in the rear) continues to puzzle all but the lawyer who scared Lexus into thinking this was a liability issue for them. About the most distinctive feature of the car you will not easily forget is that the ventilated seats do 'cool' real well, better than how the Germans do it. Finally, I recently read a review of the LS600h in The New York Times which was extremely negative. So even the wuzzy liberals back East are not that impressed the newer & greener face of the super LS600h! Z356

dmills

i looked at the LS600 too. I remember the lexus guy wouldnt shut up about how soft the leather was on the lexus and that the S550 had such lousy cheap leather... Then i saw what the leather looks like after a year of use: every used Lexus had leather that looked like a wildcat was running around in the car.

I agree on the interior too: I hate the lexus interior layout compared to the new S class.. So much easier to use.

bzliteyear

i haven't looked at new LS carefully, but i do know that Lexus had a $12k ultra luxury option on the prior generation that was awesome...give the S600 a good run for its money - massage seats, extra soft leather, alcantara headliners, frig in rear seats, stereo control in rear seats, etc.... funny thing, we got a 2003 LS430 for our in-laws for $33k, about the same price as a clean 2002 S600 which had 2x the MSRP.

Ormond2004

Chris,

Nice comparison. I have an Audi currently and recently drove the LS600h. I too was underwhelmed and disappointed.

The audio system is first-rate. I owned a 2002 LS430 a few years (cars) ago, and I really enjoyed it at the time. Based upon my past experience with Lexus, I would probably buy one again. I didn't see any advantage to the hybrid LS over the base LS. The extra weight and AWD seems to negate any mileage gains. I liked the way the base LS drove better than the hybrid. However, I do like the cool headlights! I would have liked to see a SWB LS with a V6 and the electric motor--something built for better economy.

Thanks again for the review, Chris. I am glad that you are enjoying the S600.