Z356

Syswei: I was addressing in my previous post best way to purchase both a used and new Mercedes. Searching for inventory for new MB inventory is more difficult than searching for used MB inventory, which I think is your question. But I will explain my views on both.

Re: New MB car inventory. 1) Autotrader works the least well for this type of search. Dealers normally put part of their 'new inventory' in the 'used car' section so that people like you & me looking for a new car with certain colors or options see it and call/email them on it. 2) Cars.com has a section for 'new' cars and a separate section for 'used' cars. So MB dealers are encouraged to place ads for all of their new 'current' inventory in the 'new' section of Cars.com. Here is an interesting fact. Dealers with leftover '07 models that are technically brand new (never titled/sold- with Certificate of Origin status) can place these cars in the "new car' section even as of this date. You can then sort them out quickly from current '08 stock. These can be great deals sometimes (not always). That is exactly how I found my '07 CL600 with 8K miles and used exclusively by the CEO of the corporate group that owned the MB dealer I purchased it from. Note that the 'new car' search in Cars.com forces you to first to see the local dealer's inventory. This was done by design and is part of the sale's pitch Cars.com makes to dealer to get them to place ads with them. But after seeing the local dealer's inventory of a particular model, you can quickly 'modify' the search to get to a nationwide search for that same model. That is where it gets interesting. 3) New car inventory directly from Mercedes dealers is harder to find. You can go to each dealer's internet web site and see if they list their entire new car inventory on the web. The best or most intelligent dealers do. But many don't (which is amazing) and you really will not get a total picture of actual inventory of a particular model doing it this way. You can get to each dealer's websites via the main MBUSA website. A more efficient way to find out inventory is to make friends with someone at a MB dealership. Their MB NetStar network computer system can print out a full list of the nation's entire inventory of cars in a 'NY' minute. Better yet, it will tell you exactly what dealer has on their lot that '08 Designo Espresso with options XYZ you have been looking for (for example). And equally important, it also tells you if any dealer has ordered such a color combination/options and when they are due to get it. Even if the car is pre-sold or available to be picked up by another dealer with a buyer in hand. But this ties you in with a MB dealer in some form and most of us don't have that type of easy access to NetStar... unless we are ready to buy the car from them.

Re: Used MB Car inventory. 1) Autotrader here does it very well. 2) Cars.com also, but you need to search both to get to a more complete list of all the used cars that are being advertised for sale in the United States. And private sales are usually in one but not both. One picks up on private sales via newspaper ads better than the other. So it is better to just search both at all times. Each has now a way to send you email notification of the particular model you are looking once it's listed on their website, although Autotrader's system I found easier to program. 3) MBUSA main webpage. Here is where Mercedes USA first starts to help you (the average internet customer) in the search of their dealer network inventory. But is 'hidden' under the category of Certified Pre-Owned or CPO vehicles. Look for this on the MBUSA main web site. You can then do a nationwide search for a particular model (e.g. S Class). It will give you all CPO cars...but 'mysteriously', it will list most other 'used' MB S model cars at the dealerships that are not CPO. This is the only half-decent centralized nationwide search for used MB vehicles at MB dealers that I have found. Perhaps others know another trick or way to get to this information faster or better...other than again go to each dealer's website and search their individual inventory. Usually, a dealer's used car inventory is better described or listed than their 'new' inventory. Part of the reason I am so unimpressed with the business acumen of the dealers at this late date in the game.

Finally a word on Ebay. This can't be used as a reliable source of finding 'inventory', but it's a site I wouldn't ignored in my search. For recent Mercedes models, it tends to attract either the "hard to sell" or the "Look what I got' cars. So anything from a 37,000 miles used '07 S600...to a brand new '08 'Espresso Designo Edition' CL63! And MBUSA strongly discourages dealers from just putting out their entire New inventory on Ebay and selling volume this way. It is taking sales away from local MB dealers and the powerful regional MB dealer associations have a lot of pull with MBUSA. That is why you don't see our friends near Denver (formerly Glauser) using Ebay as before and why a certain dealer from South Carolina might soon find himself in hot water with MBUSA for his constant presence in Ebay. Z356

syswei

Thank you again! Indeed I would be looking for new, with particular option combinations (like Distronic Plus, premium leather, 4matic). Unfortunately as you suggest I don't see a way to access Netstar; I think dealers are going to be willing to search for what I want, but not tell me where the car is; if I want it a car they locate I imagine they will trade for it.

Z356

Raj: Re your quote "Actually edmunds does not include the advertising cost. invoice is around 6%. their holdback is around 4%. this is what I found talking to diff sales guys and averaging it out." The holdbacks to US dealers by European manufacturers are the closest thing they have to 'state secrets' in the US car business. It has no direct parallel to the more common holdbacks practiced by Ford, GM, etc. with their US dealers. I doubt that anyone but the owners and perhaps the CEO or Senior General Manager of a Mercedes dealership would actually know ANYTHING relating to holdbacks. And it probably varies year to year. In my opinion, any sales guy that talked to you about 'holdbacks' actually doesn't have a clue. Second, just for the indiscretion of talking (or speculating) to a client about this sensitive subject matter would merit, in my opinion, dismissal. So unless there is some more information that can be collaborated from credible sources (and we have many of those among our members), I would caution in talking with authority and some exactness ("holdback is around 4%") on this subject since it could lead to unrealistic expectations here in this Forum from people trying to negotiate a reasonable deal on an S class. I believe that the best strategy to get 'reasonably' good results in price negotiations with MB dealers is to ignore speculation or imaginary calculations as to what the actual holdbacks might be and work strictly with invoice vs suggested retail pricing easily available via Edmunds and other published sources. Besides, the final accord (if one) will be based on market conditions (does the dealership think they can sell this car to anyone else at a higher price in the near future) and, believe it or not, whether they 'like' you. It is all a complicated dance and part of it involves proving to them you are a worthy 'opponent' and that you earned your great 'deal' via your knowledge of their market and by convincing them (acting if necessary) you are willing to walk away any any time prior to signing the sales or lease contract.

Austin: Exactly because I believe the retail selling end of the car business is so badly organized and managed (as compared to other US businesses), that the 'bargaining tactics' to get a good deal are more 'Art' than 'Science'. Beginning a 'negotiation' with a dealership at this relative early date of the model year by sending an offer (by your own account) of $500 under his invoice cost probably merits nothing but the curt reply you received. I think you need to do more research on the real world market 'demand' for your particular choice of MB and its availability (inventories, days in inventory, etc) before you continue or you will just bump your head needlessly against many hard walls. Z356

AustinGuy

Tell him "Rajwany" sent me? Will he know who that is?
So, I guess PP Mid Cites is the only PP you'd recommed?
Is that 6% & 4% of MSRP? So I basically take off 10% from the MSRP and that should be the cost to the dealer and the point at which I should negotiate up?

AustinGuy

Makes sense. I was hoping to get his bottom line but instead it back fired on me. Bad thing for him - his is not the only dealership around

Speaking of negotiating - assuming inv. is $91000, where should my first offer be? $89,000? $91,000?, $91,500?

Z356

Austin: You will have to do the hard work of research to find out what offer will be reasonable to offer and it will depend of demand/supply of the particular type of S class you are seeking. Right now, probably still a bad time to get a great deal on a 4-Matic and better than average chance for a 'deal' on rear wheel drive, higher HP AMG models, which many won't be able to put to 'good use' until the spring. In demand color combinations (Black, Silver) more difficult to find a deal than on than if you can settle for a Barolo Red or Jade Green. Models with few options probably easier to 'negotiate' a good deal than those with all the desirable optional features. Weather impacted areas of the country might be more willing to deal. Same for highly competitive markets like Southern CA. You will to find out who has the inventory of cars you want and test the waters a little at a time. You can start by contacting Forum sponsors like Greg Weiler of MB of Westminster, Colorado at 303.618.8764 cellular or <gweiler@mbwestminster.com>. You could also expand your search and email/call DickDyer & Associates in South Carolina. Both of these folks have dedicated internet sales staff that hopefully will not first ask that you drop to see them in person. They will deal with you on the phone or via email. If you don't have the time to spend on this 'leg' work, there are intermediaries that might find a right MB for you for a relative modest finder's fee. They will also give you an idea what other deals their customers are currently getting and 'why'. Once you familiarize yourself with the 'market', you will realize quickly what it will take ($) to get the particular vehicle you want at this time or if you need to wait until something else changes - economy deteriorate much further or end of model year sales next summer - before pulling the trigger. Good luck. Z356

RajwanyS550

The holdbacks to US dealers by European manufacturers are the closest thing they have to 'state secrets' in the US car business


u base this on some conspiracy theory, I guess

there r lots of posts in this site which discusses holdbacks from dealers. do a search

AustinGuy

RajwanyS550 et al,

Could you please respond to post #29 above?

I talked to Marty today. He said you just picked up your car. Congratulations!! How is it? Which one did you buy? Pictures?

He said he's going to work hard to find me the car that I want.....

I'm very excited and nervous.... huge financial committment.

Can you tell me how much off the MSRP you paid? I am getting the run around here in Austin and also from the Houston dealers. Each time I ask for 8k off MSRP, they act like I'm nuts.....

What gives?

BuckeyeBenz

I am in the Long Island, New York area and am currently negotiating a white on black S550 4matic with AMG sport package and P3. MSRP 105,290 all prices are with everything in the lease and 7,500 miles a year. My father currently has a 1998 S420 with 76K miles, he doesn’t need 10k let alone 12k.

First dealer was a friend of my aunts and she assured me that she was giving us the best possible lease payment of 1919 a month, of course didn’t take her word for it. Went to my dealer, he gave me a similar price and I told him it wasn’t good enough, he brought it down to 1844 before I walked out. He called me with a better offer of 1809 told him it still wasn’t good enough we where looking to pay 1750. He called me the next day (sunday) with 1779. Told him that I had an appointment to bring my car in for service monday morning and if he wanted to make the deal for 1750 monday morning to call me. He called me with 1759, and we agreed on 1750.

I didnt end up bringing my car to the dealership because i found someone else to do the work for cheaper. ( i took my sideview mirror off backing into my garage, I dont want to talk about it!) So it was about 4:30 monday afternoon by the time my father and I found time to go but we didn’t want to drive during rush hour. PROBLEM there is only one white on black S550 with P3 in the northeast so I wanted to give him the 1k deposit over the phone to claim the car. But of course not agree to anything until we went in to sign the contract. When he figured first payment he threw in the MB bank fee which I understand must be paid but thought it was in the lease already. So either my father would have to pay the 750 upfront or the lease payments would go back up to 1769. I told him 1760 and to call me in the morning, but his manager told him to pass. Note I never gave him a credit card #.

Now I am waiting to see if its a bluff or they are serious. If they are serious we will lick our wounds go in there and pay the bank fee because I think its a good deal. What do you all think and if you could compare your lease payments that would be very helpful. All said and done they say we are getting the car for 98,300 which is 600 under invoice, which I don’t believe. No offense but I don’t believe a car salesmen when they tell me their name.

usctrojans1

How long is the lease? What is the residual, money factor?

BuckeyeBenz

Yea forgot possibly the most important details, sorry. Money factor is .00335
Residual is 55% and 39 month lease term, Thanks!!!

AustinGuy

BuckeyeBenz,

Sounds like quite the run around! Don't you just wish these guys would give you their bottom line price and save us all the haggling and games....

Sigh!

My 2c: I think you need to focus on the total price, money factor and residual. That's the golden rule in leasing. NEVER, I mean NEVER ever negotiate on a lease payment. If you do, then there is room to fudge a few things and you could end up being the goat in the deal....

syswei

How did you go about determining this, and finding out which dealer had the one you wanted?

Thanks in advance.

Blk04cobra1

I can understand your frustration and it does sound like you are getting the run around. Being in the business myself, it also helps if the buyer has a "realistic" number in their head when they come in the door. You have to remember that it has to make business sense for the dealer to make the deal. That's not saying you are way off base on your lease payment, but it may be a supply/demand issue as well. IMO, they will always make another car to sell at a later date and if the deal can be worked, why not just make it happen?

With the internet these days, it's making it more and more difficult to find a "loyal" buyer. I am relatively new to the industry, but remember when I was on the other side of the deal and wanted the best deal possible. I guess what I failed to realize is that the salesperson also needed to make a little money at the same time. I cannot go into further details, but will leave it like this, just b/c the dealer may make a sale does not mean the salesperson "made" money.

Good luck with your search, I am not an authorized vendor on the site yet or would've been glad to help you out.

BuckeyeBenz

Syswei: I know this because everytime i went into a dealer and gave the options desired the same cars would show up. If a dealer doesnt have a car instock they check the MB database which all dealerships work off of. In the begining of my search there was 3 now 1.

Blk04cobra1 and AustinGuy: They are telling me i am getting the car for 98,300, msrp is 105,290. The residual is based on term and milage correct. And money factor is based on interest rates and changes monthly. So based on those factors would you say that this is a good deal for a pretty loaded car?

syswei

So did the dealer you bought from trade cars with another dealer to get the car for you? Or did one of the dealers that you checked with check the MB database and tell you which particular dealer had the exact car you wanted, and then you ended up going there?

BuckeyeBenz

My father hasn't purchased anything yet, but i have been to 4 dealerships in the last two weeks and they all work off the same cars. Everytime i would tell the salesmen the options the same car would come up on the database. And they would all tell me the same thing there is only one in the whole northeast.

AustinGuy

Wow! I doubt that would happen. Why would he tell you where to go and lose business?

AustinGuy

Okay - here's an update from the Texas dealers: So far, my venture is not going very well....... 1 Houston dealer(Greenway) is willing to do $2800 off MSRP. MB of Austin is willing to do $2000 off....

Z356: I took up your lead and emailed Greg Weiler of MB of Westminster, Colorado. He did not respond at that email. Instead some guy called Dmitry responded and said that they cannot do $7500 off .....

I'm just not comfortable having the car shipped from an out of state dealer...... too risky it seems. If I did a deal with a CA dealer, then how would I pick up the vehicle? Who would go over the car with me? What if there was some minor damage that I didn't see until 2-3 days later? I mean would I just get the keys from some truck driver?

Z356

Austin: Here is my last piece of advice and then you are on your own. Bargain hunting for deals is more like dating (hoping to get lucky) than checking in at the Bunny Ranch (for a sure thing). You need to establish a rapport with a series of MB salesman and dealers. They need to test you and have a chance to pull you up to the price point they would prefer to sell you the car. You need to convinced them you are deserving of the special low price you are asking and you need to give them data (e.g. inventory surplus or competition quotes) that proves it. It is a complicated tango. You need the time (you must have no dateline for buying...except when you get to a price you are comfortable with) to get them involved and committed to selling YOU a car. It might just be that on the model/colors/options vehicle you want there is no way to get $1K over invoice right at this date. Too many others just like you want this particular combo. But don't give up. These cars are not 'rare'. The world's largest car factory 'complex' is building them everyday in Sindelfingen. Check back with these dealers on Feb 29th...or two months from that date. Romance the 'stone' until you can't stand it anymore. You need to enjoy the 'quest', otherwise there is little hope you will get anywhere. If you give up, do what 90% of the public does and pay retail or what-ever deal they are willing to give you right now. Your time is valuable too. Hopefully your employers are not paying you $250,000 per year for nothing. And you could devote this extra time to make more income via hard work or investments. Saludos, Z356.
PS Nothing prevents you from flying cheaply to LA to check the car out before you sign the papers. Or hire a professional 'inspector' to do that for you. Still cheaper in the long run if you get the right deal.

06CLK350

Honestly, i think that it is very important to get a great deal on any car. Even if you save $1000, you saved it. You can be a millionaire, and it will still make a difference. I know you can get around $8000-$9000 off at a lot of dealerships in California.

AustinGuy

Great stuff my man! Great stuff. I don't know who you are but sometimes I think you are a 60 yr. old man who worked the inner bowls of an MB dealership...... some other times I think you are just a saint sent from above who's sole purpose is to make sure guys like me don't get taken in for a good hoax at some car dealership.....

Whoever you are, you definitely provide some very valuable info.

As far as my situation, well, I'm not quite as gullable as I might seem. I am really not in a super hurry. I will wait it out. I will find a good deal and yes, I do realize how important it is to strike a rapport with the salesman/woman. It's just that starting off, I have to sift through the noise and find a few good ones willing to deal..... I think I have 2 at this point - one in Dallas and one here in Austin.... Hopefully by this weekend round 1 will be over.

FYI: round 1 is where I get to hear back from the 2 sales people about what they can do on price.....

syswei

AustinGuy,

I suggest soliciting some quotes from SoCal and So FL, even if you are hesitant to shop that way. You could use the price quotes, throwing in transport (in a covered truck) expenses, to knock the local TX dealers down.

Blk04cobra1

Austinguy, if a dealer is willing to take $7k off MSRP to make a deal happen, then I would take it and run. They are pretty much giving up all of the front end profit, which the internet will tell you is about 6%. As for the MF and terms, well that does vary every month. February's rates have become available, im just not privy to that information yet. Of course the rate depends on your personal credit as well.

On a side note, MB has now adopted a new delivery policy. No car can be shipped without an authorized MB employee there to do a complete overview of the vehicle. This means that the dealer sends a person or you find another dealer willing to PDI and demo the car with you (probably not going to happen, at least it hasnt for me yet). Ive had people come over 500 miles away to pick their car's up because we made the deal happen. Good luck again with your purchase.

derrick_lui

My guess is that the S-class maybe a hot seller. My dealer only gave me about 1.2k off a 2007 Demo (MSRP 95k RWD) from 79,797$ to 78500$..wouldnt budge a cent more..