Mercedes - quality & reliability problems
 

Not to beat this horse to death, but rather try to understand how much the public perception about MB's quality & reliability problems are based on fact.

As some of you might know, I have never owned an MB - been a BMW guy the whole time. Finally, I decided to buy a Benz and ordered an 08 S550/AMG (which will be delivered in April). From talking to business acquaintances and friends (most of whom have owned or still own MB's), the overwhelming responses are that MB's are VERY problematic. Some have even gone as far as telling me that they are the WORST car to buy as far as reliability is concerned. One person who owned a 2004 ML for 3 years told me that she had immense issues with oil leaks, burning oil and electrical problems. Another guy tells me that he owned a 2005 C-class and it was in the shop more than in his garage... another colleague tells me that his 2005 S500 was a nightmare - many electronic/electrical issues, etc. Then, my wife's good friend told her last night that they were considering an S500 in 2006 but there were so many issues and bad reports about it (W220) that they settled for a Lexus....:naughty:

While I understand that even the media's favorite bellwethers - Accord/Camry/LS400, etc. have issues, there seems to be this overwhelming outcry about Mercedes' quality! Hello, isn't that exactly what MB was known for? If not for quality (and to a lesser extent looks), why would the car even be worth $110k+? What is MB thinking? Why can't they get on it and fix this damn image problem with their cars? Could it be this stubborn/arrogant attitude that exemplifies MB or simply a lack of customer relations and evaluation of public feedback? This problem has been going on for too long now...... and you would think that a company that spends so much on technology would try to get the basic things working without faults.... How can Lexus get the electronic/electrical and mechanical nuances right, while MB and BMW keep stumbling and bumbling around? With that being said, the W221 seems to have it right for the most part, but then you still see all these issues people are having now with the parktronic, distronic+, etc. Now, consumer reports has the Lexus LS460L rated as it's best luxury sedan and while most here might dismiss it as "just consumer reports gibberish", it still speaks volumes about how far MB needs to go before it can rightfully reclaim that spot as the worlds best luxury/performance auto maker.

For those of you out there who have been in tune with MB, HOW MUCH truth is there to this? More importantly, is the W221 in the same mould?

See my quality problems on older thread. . . It's sad they still have not fixed their quality issues. . .

https://mbworld.org/forums/c32-amg-c55-amg-w203/67356-letter-mb.html

https://mbworld.org/forums/c32-amg-c55-amg-w203/62084-c32-teleaid-malfunction-window-tinting.html

Holy Cow!!!!!:eek::eek::eek:

I'm still trying to pick my self up off the floor. That's simply insane! :smash:

Interestingly enough, someone in another thread warned me about Park Place in the Dallas area... How have things been going for you since 2004? Still have that C class?

Since I plan on buying (not leasing), I'm now having SERIOUS thoughts about that S 500 with my name on it....... seriously thinking about calling the dealership and telling them that I don't want the car.

RLPIII - in one post you've blown the air out of my bubble :v:

I did a little comparison of the last "solid" S-class (according to myth, at least), the W126, and the W221.

I compared a 1990 420 SEL with a 2008 S550. The MSRP of the SEL was $62,600, which is $106,000 in 2008 dollars. The MSRP of a base S550 is $87,525. More on this in a moment.

The bullet-proof W126 got you 228 horsepower, 201 ft-lbs. of torque from a 2-valve per cylinder SOHC engine mated to a 4-speed automatic. It came with 205/65-15 rubber. Yes, 15" wheels. It had a top speed of 128 MPH, did 0-60 in 9.3 seconds, pulled .72g on the skidpad and had a semi-trailing arm rear suspension.

The S550 has 382 horsepower, 391 ft-lbs. from a 4-valve DOHC engine and a 7-speed. It rides on 255-45/18 tires, has a limited top speed of 130 (with lots more potential), does 0-60 in 5.3 seconds, pulls .83g. The better handling is due, in part, to its 5-link rear suspension.

In addition, the W221 has the following standard goodies that were not available in 1990: Airmatic/ADS-II suspension, ABC, BAS, ESP, COMAND with GPS navigation and much better audio with CD changer, memory mirrors, bi-xenon headlights, tight voice-control integration, Smartkey, garage opener, Teleaid, ambient lighting, cluster display, multi-function steering wheel controls, easy entry options, dual-zone climate control, 15-way seats, pre-safe, air curtains, TPMS and a bunch I can't think of.

And if we include options that can be had without exceeding the inflation-adjusted $106,000 price of the base 420 SEL we can add: Parktronic with parking and blind spot assits, Distronic II, night vision, rear camera, active ventilated seats, trunk closer, Keyless Go, ABC and 19" wheels with lower-profile rubber. And there is a lot more discounting now than we could have hoped for from MB in 1990 so the goodies per buck ratio is even higher.

What does this have to do with reliability? Look at the list! All of this technology, unimagined in the "golden age" is incredibly complex. Who asked for it? We did! Camry drivers don't. Yes, the Japanese make very reliable cars. But there is no technology showcase like an S-class. If you don't go into one with your eyes open to that, you can be unpleasantly surprised. Considering the complexity, I think the W221 reliability record is amazing.

whoover

You seem to know your cars very well but I'm sure if you go down the list of standard and optional packages, Lexus/BMW and MB are pretty equal. At least I would think they'd have to be in order to compete in the same echelon of world class luxury/performance sedans.

Just one thing you forgot to mention: The Lexus LS (and BMW 750iL for that matter) are EVERY bit as complex and have the same amount of gadgetry. Yet, their reliability (fact wise or public perception wise) seems to be WAY higher - at least for the Lexus.

Why is that?

You can't compare ADS-II, much less ABC, with anything that Lexus or BMW has, and you can't compare Distronic with the Lexus equivalent either. The MB systems are more complicated and, I think, effective. I think that's why you can't compare the driving experience of a Lexus and an MB. You may prefer the extra reliability to pushing the envelope, but the engineering is certainly different.

There was a time that BMW pushed the envelope and MB was more conservative. That's no longer the case. And I don't think BMW has a markedly better reliability record in the real world. I know my experience with one was dismal.

I found an expert on AMG cars at another MB dealership in Plano that has been great. If it was not for them, I would have dumped my C32 for something else not MB. They have fixed all the quality problems I've had, and did it very quickly without any lip (also very important :).)

I can not stress enough that if you buy an MB, especially and AMG, make sure the dealer you are servicing with has an expert with AMG vehicles that knows how to diagnose and fix problems. The AMG is not built the same as the other MBs and should be serviced accordingly.

You won't find anyone who is more critical or obsessive about their car than me. I have owned five MB's and understand the source of the criticism. Some of it is justified, and some of it stems from the frustration of owners with regard to systemic deficiencies. I'm probably one of the few people who read the manual cover to cover and do a lot of research to understand how everything works.

My bottom was the 2002 W220 - nice car, but cheap materials on the inside and many problems with systems. Too many new things - airmatic, comand, etc.that weren't tested long enough. Lot's of things failed and the dealer fixed them promptly, and for free, but you can't fix the quality of the parts after they are installed. The 2004 W220 was a different car, looked the same but much better on quality. I honestly did not have that many problems in the four years I had it. An airmatic sensor in the front left wheel was the biggest problem.

I now have a 2008 s550. This car sets a new standard for quality in Mercedes. Nothing has gone wrong with mine. Stopped back at the dealer for the initial check and haven't been back since. That was 5 months ago. The quality and feel of ever thing has been upgraded and the systems work very well. My understanding is that MB ran a large fleet of these cars with blackboxes inside for an extended period of time to catch all of the failures. From my standpoint it worked. Sure, there may be some nitpicky software issue here or there, but I haven't heard of anything really major.

The distronic+ parktronic sensor issues are mostly not issues at all, mostly warnings regarding system interference which isn't a system failure. I use to think mine was going off for no reason at all when I pulled into the garage. Now I understand its picking up the pole supporting the beam if I drive too close to it.

I think Consumer Reports is wrong in their assessment and time will prove that these cars are much better in quality.

Enjoy your new S when you get it. I'm sure you'll be pleased.

think about that... you get aaaaaaall these extra, complicated, expensive, features, and you still pay less than you would for a w126 in today's dollars.... and we wonder why reliability is an issue?
the days of building the best car possible and then pricing it accordingly are long gone. these cars are now built to a price, and sacrifices will have to be made to get all these features into the car.
if they built the car as best they could, it would cost more, but they would sell less, so this is the best balance.
the main difference between the two cars? the w126 was built by an engineer. not an accountant...

If you go by Consumer Reports, They always BASH merc s class, While they recommend the bmw 7, pretty pathitic on mercedes!:nix:

Consumer reports is bought and paid for. Don't use that junk for research.:p:

Need to talk to car nuts whom one trusts who buy relevant new S/CL/SL63/65 frequently, e.g., every 6-12mos, to have better anecdotal data....

Need to assess (via common-sense engineering and real-world driving analysis) active/passive safety of various cars....

And place own bets...

Based upon my amateur analysis, have never been impressed w/overall active/passive safety of any car on planet vs curr-gen S/CL63/65....

Based upon anecdotal feedback and own expce, doubt any car on planet today has better quality/reliability than curr-gen S/CL....

IMO, part of what's fun/intellectually interesting re: cars is that full data set is unavailable re: any car....need to place own bets based upon common-sense analysis/judgment; anecdotal feedback; and own driving impressions....those who can't successfully manage this bet prob aren't particularly sharp anyway and also struggle w/most risk/reward bets in their career/life generally.....Darwinian selection often prevails.....after all, where/when else in US is an affluent guy more at physical risk (and instantaneous decision-making risk, based upon driving judgment/skills and active safety tech) than in his daily commute???....:y

This is a fabulous thread to read and raises great questions and viewpoints. I , for one, am one of the biggest fans of luxury cars that I know. I study this crap to a point of obsession and I KNOW that the current S class is the best car in the world and will hold that position for at least 5 years if not longer.
As in any business/product life, it takes years to build a great reputation but only minutes to destroy one. The Chrysler era is the only thing that messed up dear old Daimler and we need to be understanding of this and get back to the grass roots of what is real and that is: Mercedes Benz is the best car company across the board. They made a mistake and they know it. When I was 5 years old, I distinctly remember crawling into a 1968 Mercedes S class and even at that young age, I knew this was a special vehicle. I just didn't know it would develop into a sickness for me:D

Rest assured, your decision to buy an S550 is not to be regretted. You will be happy. What little problems I've mentioned over the past year are so minor that it simply adds entertainment for the forum if nothing else.

I LOVE MY W221 !!!!!! Best car I've ever driven. That doesn't mean I don't miss my W215. That too was one of the best cars I've ever owned. Still wish I could grab a 2005 CL65 just for fun. This fellow just can't squeeze it into his budget:rolleyes:

IMO, just fork out $4800 for the extended warranty and you're covered for 7 yrs, 100k miles for a S-class amg. That way you will have piece of mind.

Most S/63/65/600 are leased, therefore, the warranty issue is moot.

Indeed, always interesting to compare vs prior gens and today's comparables....

I recall as a kid carefully examining the ?'92 S500.....my elders tell me it was a well-engineered, reliable car....simple arithmetic tells me today's new S65 only costs about as much as that new '92 S500 costed (adjusted for inflation and interest rates).....doubt that '92 S500 offers even somewhat comparable safety vs today's new S65 (or 550).....and, as much as I mock the 65's codgerly quilted leather and wood steering wheel, S65 interior IMO is far more elegant/ergonomic than '92 S500's....

I recall a couple of colleagues in late '90s who got new Lexus ?GS400.....was amused by their various electronic glitches...and, more disturbingly, was dismayed by one of these new GS (I was a passenger) having a fuel-line failure on a busy urban fwy in NYC....it was NYC, so fwy speeds were lethargic...would have been a near-death expce on a fast CA fwy....

Along w/many car nuts on this forum, have collected enough anecdotal expces and first-hand driving/ownership expces to view a new S/CL as a no-brainer for anyone seeking to maximize perf/safety/daily-useability....the various media "analyses" are great amusement.....

Interestingly, do know many very smart guys who aren't car guys....guys who astutely analyze various risk/reward situations in their day job (and even carefully consider their choice of private plane and the qualifications of the pilots, etc), yet mysteriously/?absent-mindedly choose weak cars (or fail to realize that risk exposure to a LincTownCar (or any non-new S-Class) from airport to hotel more than offsets safety of any $50MM+ pvt plane).....I've managed to badger enough of my affluent non-car-oriented colleagues to, at the very least, get a new S550, w/ABC and Dist, every 2 yrs for their own safety and that of their passengers....:zoom:

Funny you mention the 2005 CL65. I was extremely close to buying it about 6 months ago. The dealership I get my car serviced at does great service, but is horrible in sales. I had been almost literally drooling over the Black CL65 they had on the showroom floor since 2005. It was there so long I finally decided to put up an offer. After doing a test drive, I was ready to buy. At about the time I put down my offer, they do the "I have another bidder on the phone offering $130k" B.S. At that time I was just so pi$$ed, I just jumped up and said thanks for completely wasting 3 hours of my time, they can have it, and never looked back. . .

I must say it was a great :zoom:, I would highly recommend :zoom: one if you have the opportunity :).

Well first off, all of the vehicles you've listed are previous generation vehicles. There is nothing Mercedes can do to "fix" their reputation with those vehicles. All they can do is repair them as they break. The darkest period for Mercedes is from 1998-2005/06 depending on the model series in question.

The new S-Class and CL have proven (so far) be a complete turn around for Mercedes compared to the previous S-Class and CL models.

Secondly you simply can't use a lame review from CNNMoney to give you the entire picture on a Mercedes, or any car for that matter. For one they aren't car experts, only automotive "writers". Ditto for Consumer Reports. Their reliability data is what it is, but all they can do is "project" what the reliability will be for the new S-Class based on the old model. Pretty dumb IMO. Everyone in the known world already knows that the new S is way different from the old S, but at Consumer Reports they don't acknowledge this in their reliability stats, only to say that it is "projected". I am dying to see what Consumer Reports says in their data this spring which will include actual hard data on the 2007 S and CL models, not some projection crap. The upcoming data will give the stats on the first year of ownership, not the first 90 days like J.D. Powers does.


The new S/CL does just what you ask, gets a handle on the problem and their image and it has done so (so far) with smashing results. You also have to realize that people with older troubled Benzes are going to harp about it forever and forever until they either get a newer and have a better experience. After a while it just becomes meaningless drivel because their cars are no longer relevant or related to the current crop in quality, design, reliability.

I have a W208 CLK430 Cabriolet, one of the troubled cars from the darker years of Mercedes' quality woes so I know first hand about this to a certain degree, but I also have the sense to know a W221 is a different car. There comes a time where you have to make up your own mind and use more than one (bitter) source.

There is no denying that Mercedes-Benz suffered (or suffers depending on how you look at it) a severe drop in quality. Generally the worst offenders were/are:

1998-2005 ML (W163) - Worst vehicle Mercedes-Benz has made in the last 25 years!
1998-2003 CLK (W208)
2001-2007 C-Class (W203)
2000-2006 S-Class (W220)
1996-2002 E-Class (W210)

Then you have some cars that were iffy at the start, but seemed to have improved greatly:

2003-2008 E-Class (W211) - The 2003-2005 models were worst, but from 2006 onward things seem to have gotten better, but the real improvement came with the 2007 facelift. The initial data (JDP) suggest a complete turn around, but I'm still waiting to see is Consumer Reports mirrors it.

2003-2008 SL (R230) - Like the current E-Class, the 2003-2005 models were problematic, but the 2007 facelift seems to have turned things around.

Then you have some that still seem to be problematic:

2003-2008 CLK (W209) - Still seems to be more problematic than any of the above cars. Not sure why at this point. Still better than the W208 cars, but not yet straightened out it seems.

2006-2008 GL, ML, R-Classes. All share the same chassis and most parts, still seem to be problematic going by the boards here. These being built here seems to have a lot to do with it, but that is a whole different story.

Overall I'd say MB's quality is on the mend, but they still have a long ways to go. Ideally everything they make would be as trouble free as the W221 is proving to be. We'll see if the new C-Class can repeat this in the hands of far more consumers in much greater number than the S-Class.

M

I completely agree with this point. When my wife wanted an SUV, we test drove at least half a dozen. She HATED the ML. I feel bad now because I drug her back up there to do a 2nd drive to make sure she was not imagining things. When I drove it, it felt like driving an American truck. I was very displeased with it too - then we started hearing about its problems and decided that MB just should stick w/ what they know - cars not SUVs.:)

I still wish that Mercedes was a car-only company. I can remember when Mercedes was the truly exclusive high end car that you thought of when that topic came up. Back in the '60s, '70s, and most of the '80s, to have a Mercedes was special and exclusive. You didn't see them very often in the average town as you usually had to drive to the upper class neighborhoods in a city to see one. I remember when everyone would get all excited when we saw one going down the road. It would be similar to the reaction of seeing today's Rolls-Royce.
It seems that the quality issues started popping up when they left that bread- and -butter lineup of cars that only included the S class and its variant 2 door coupe versions, the diesel cars like the 220/240s (later 300 TD) and their convertible SLs. That was the only things on their menu to select from and if you had any one of these cars, you stood out like a sore thumb with exclusivity. Having a MB was big time special but nowadays, just about anyone can claim to be driving a MB especially with so many models and sneaky financing that gets someone behind the wheel of one.

I can't say I agree with your assessment of the 210. I would place the early 211 cars as substantially more problematic.

Consumer Reports seems to believe its value to consumers is finding the product that sells for less, but in their view is just as good. If they were to rate ballpoint pens, they would probably rate the Bic over the Montblanc because the ink lasts longer, or some attribute they could put forth to justify the better rating.

When comparing the Mercedes to the Lexus they admitted the Mercedes had more agile handling, better steering feel, and a slight edge in ride comfort and acceleration. Yet they said the Lexus easily won because of fuel economy and the confusing comand system. I couldn't disagree more. The comand system interface is far superior to any control interface preceding it. It's as natural a progression as the windows interface and mouse was to the PC. It allows you to control everything using a single common menu standard and interface. I don't see anybody wishing to go back to a comand prompt screen for their PC. Maybe these guys are just getting old. Certainly handling, steering, ride comfort and acceleration are more important than fuel economy to me. I've been keeping track - To date they are the only publication that has rated the Lexus over the new S-class. Everybody else can't be wrong.

One thing that this thread demonstrates is that we can argue this topic ad nauseum.....

Tha fact of the matter remains that the MB brand today represents a weird conflict of ideas and innuendo. On one side you have the enthusiasts (as represented on this board) who vouch for the brand, while others (who seem to be a large majority) think that all MB's are very problematic. A lot of that has to do with the price point vs. what you're getting for your money. Lexus is making it very very hard for MB/BMW to sell at that price point. All I'm saying is that this new LS460 is the closest Lexus has come to battling MB right on it's own turf ...... I test drove an LS450 the other day (before forking over my $5000 deposit for the S550!) just to see how it played, and.......... I was pleasently surprised! I drove it hard, stepped on the gas with a vengence, slammed on the brakes, took 90 degree turns at 60 mph (:p:):y) and I was hard pressed to find a huge difference between it, the 750iL and the S550/AMG. Of course there was some difference in the handling but $25,000 worth of difference? Hhmmmmm...... I don't know.

With Lexus's committment to building the ultimate performance-luxury sedan, the next few years are going to be fun to watch.

That being said, I would never be caught dead in an LS :D

Interesting thread. Anyone remember AUdi's "unintentional acceleration" problem? Ruined Audi for years. Right now, MB is going through reputational problems. And deservedly so.

Adding to that problem is free maintenance by BMW, and the Japanese improving their own products every day. (Who thought Toyota could go one on one against the Germans in the luxury dep't)?

MB has finally noticed this, and have created the 221. But it will take time to re-acquire their world-class reputation. I"m looking forward to the '09 E-Class. (I will say, I don't know why the new C is made in SA). If MB wants to bolster its rep, all MB's should be made in Germany - IMO. I"m not saying those cars are inferior (or the Austrian made E-AWD), but I wouldn't buy a Ferrari if it were made in Spain.

The thing with MB is a love affair bet. the car and the owner. I bought my first MB 4 months ago, and there is nothing like it. With years of heritage and renown capaibilities, there's a reason why MB is what it is today despite its recent fallacies. Its like driving an impregnable vault which has incredible hp, tq, braking, suspension and steering. AND I hate automatics!! But every time I drive mine, I'm like "this is king".

I honestly bel. the MB of today is troublesome - but more "annoying" trouble, such as constantly clicking dynamic seats, rather than serious engine/tranny problems. I hope the 221 problems owners are experiencing are electronic and not mechanical. The smarter thing would be to buy a Lexus, but for the above reasons, I cherish my MB. It truly is world-class.

Where is this info from? Traditionally SA produces right hand driven C-class sedans. Bremen and Sindelfingen should be doing the LHD cars (perhaps some RHD too).

I'm on my second MB and I'm happy to say the worst problem I had with the car was a punctured tire. When I got my first car people were telling me that I'm going to have so many problems with it and I should sell my car as soon as I get it. I'm happy to say that they have been proved all wrong. I have not had a single problem with my cars before. Not to turn this into a religious war or anything but all my BMW owning friends are having problems. I guess it's just the luck of the draw ?

Is this not the review that marked down the S550 listing one reasons as the (aluminum not plastic) driver window control buttons all feel similar? They were really looking hard for a reason to rate the S-Class under the Lexus to fit their preconceived prejudices - the dolts!

Chris

My MY02 ML has been rock solid with not a single major issue and only a handful of minor issues (which were resolved very quickly) since the day we bought it.

Yes - I will say they were correct in their assessment that it is easy to hit the wrong window switch, but its hardly a justification to say the Lexus easily wins. They have always been big fans of Toyota and Lexus although they will never admit that. Don't know if they validate their reliability data, but I have always suspected that it is not very accurate. People can say things that aren't true depending on how they feel about their car. They don't have to be fair. Unless you match it up with real invoices or the car companies database for warranty repairs - you really don't know if it is reflective or poor service or a problematic car. Based on the ratings, you would think that Toyota and Lexus have zero service bulletins and nothing ever goes wrong. I think we all know that this isn't the case.

The biggest reason I kept my C32 is that when everything is running right, it is truly a great car to drive - deceivingly fast and very comfortable along with all the other things stated by gnma above. I really like the mixture of sport and luxury of the MB AMG.

My biggest problem with Lexus is that they are just too slow. I can not buy one for that simple fact unless it's an SUV, but still, slow really sux.

BMW is fast and drives really well, test drove the M6 a few months back and almost bought, but they just don't have the luxury, comfort feel to them you get from MB.

You know what, you're right. The 03-05 W211 models were more troublesome by far. When I wrote that I was thinking (but didn't mention) about from a build quality point of view as how the W210 wasn't built like the W214 before it. The W210 still had its share of problems, but nothing like the brakes, suspension (airmatic) and nav system problems like the first couple of years of the W211 did.

M

+1:y

:rolleyes:
uummmm.....NO!

The 124 and 126 certainly do have their excellent reputation.

The w210 is pretty solid, although it has a few inexcuseables (rusting spring perch is the big one)

Wow - I have missed a ton! Haven't posted in ages.

Truth also is that Mercedes IS in fact climbing back up the ranks. Quality is definitely better. I drove an 02 S500 and now have the 07 S550 and it is literally night and day - everything from the seats to the quality of materials inside...vast vast improvement, with relatively minimal price increase. (given the % increase).

With that said - if anyone wanted to see for themselves, they could rent one for a weekend before plunking down $105,000 to buy one or before entering a full 36 month lease commitment...

Its really a great car!

Great to hear from you again Brad!:)

You too, although Email is cool too!

If i post around mbworld - it wont be in the off topic section...sadly - a few of those fellows need to come to terms with why they have to go online to carry out their bully-like behaviour....which is usually a sign of not getting the respect they crave in their "real" lives...

Anyways. I just got a great car wash!
I specifically went to this one particular place because they broke the GPS antenna off my car during the car wash process. It was replaced under warranty but not before the water leaked into the back seat. This time around though - no problems, I imagine the glue they used this time really locked the unit down.

The car is showroom new! Now heading over shortly to Sushi Samba.

=)

Here's my take on the whole debate on reliability on benz. The large majority of the people who buy MB or BMW for the large are very critical, seek the absolute best, and will voice their opinion on the slightest issue. Nothing wrong w/ that at all. While Mercedes had has its fair share of Quality Assurance mishaps, and I can say the actual engines/ powertrain are rock solid.

The electricial issues were apparent in 2000-2006 models. But not all. I had a 2002 CLK320, flawless. Only major issue was the cat converter going bad, but replaced under warranty. My CL500 was a nightmare. Alot of the fault belongs to MB poor engineering of the ABC suspension which caused major issues for car owners. The electrical internals were badly designed. Just google ABC failures and you will see practically CL owner experiencing this issue. This dark period where number of complaints increased and satisfactions decreased can be attributed to poor QA standards, and the sub-standard contractors for electrical parts.

I think MB has learned their lesson and now are on a mission to make sure the 'brand' is back to it's rightful position at the top. It will take alot of work, because many loyalist have defected to Lexus, Audi or BMW. In terms of the S class, my neighbor has a 2008 and drives it 50 miles a day. snow/rain/sleet here in Northern VA. Everytime I speak to him, he has a smile on his face.
I really hope his experience is the norm and not the exception because the S class is a beauty which should inspire equal admiration for it's excellence in engineering.

Just a note, I own a 04' SL with 25K on the clock. Drives like a dream...wish me luck :)

Except for the IS 350, which is barely a even a 4 sec. car (4.9 sec). . . then uummmm......YES!....TO SLOW!!!:X

After owning 2 s500(02 and 05) I will never buy another one. There are just way too many problems. I cant stand wasting time at the dealer to have the same problems re-fixed. Every year my sa tells me merc has gotten all the gremlins out of the car. I jjust have never seen this to be true.In fact my 02 was more trouble free than my 05. Given how the resale/trade in price 07 s550 has gotten crushed(30-35k off original price !), I have to believe the reliability has something to do with this. Maybe when they start using Merc parts again instead of Chrysler, some of the problems will disipate.

I'm surprised your '05 gave that much trouble. As far as the drop in the '07 prices, that is so normal. Most all luxury cars drop 30K in their first year and you have to remember, some of those '07s are actually '06 cars. The 2007 model practically sold for almost 2 years. In other parts of the world , the W221 is a full year older to them than to us. I really wish MBUSA would consider build date to reference a model as opposed to the age old way of doing this where the new model year starts in the middle of the previous year:crazy:

As far as the Merc parts versus Chrysler Crap: I think this is definitely out of the equation for now. Not sure, but almost sure.

I believe as part of the Chrysler sale agreement there is still a part share program in place for several years.

Ahh, I didn't know that. I just hope they are using the good parts:eek:

Oh my.....Chrysler and Mercedes don't share any parts in the S-Class. The ony Mercedes and Chryslers that were "sharing" parts were the previous generation SLK and the Crossfire and Chrysler's LX (300/Magnum/Charger) and the previous E-Class. There were no parts shared between the S-Class and Chrysler. Why do people believe this nonsense?

Mercedes started cheapening their cars back in the mid 90's after Lexus took hold of the market, it had nothing to do with Chrysler. Chrysler only made it worse because after MB bought they the had to pump huges sums of cash into Chrysler to keep it going, but Mercedes drop in quality wasn't because they shared parts.

Mercedes only gave Chrysler access to their out of production platforms/tech, not their current platforms/engines etc. There are no re-badged current Mercedes' running around as Chrysler and vice versa.

M

Its silly to believe that the accountants at DCX would limit there attempted cost savings to specfic models. If there was a chrysler part that fit/worked in the S they would use it.

They didn't use any Chrysler parts in the S-Class. The W220 was completed before merger even took place. The S-Class' engineering was far above anything Chrysler had at the time or even had on the drawing board. The things that gave problems on the W220 weren't even present in any Chrysler vehicles to begin with. The Comand systems, airmatic, etc. had no origins in anything Chrysler, simply put Chrysler didn't have these things to share in the first place.

Mercedes-Benz's cost no object engineering way of doing things was changed long before they decided to buy Chrysler. Cost savings as you put it weren't limted to certain models, it was across the board. However this was done because of Shremp's desire to "put a Benz in every garage", not because of Chrysler. It is well documented what was and was not shared between the 2 companies. The S-Class isn't on the list.

M

Which came first: The Chrysler Pacifica or the Mercedes R class. Those two look identical in so many ways (actually the Pacifica looks better IMO even though I think they both are fugly).

I agree, I think the R class is contributing to diluting the MB brand.

They came around the same time, though they don't share a platform as many mistakenly believe.

M

I've had 2 W221s and love them to death as dailys. Pure technology and luxury. I prefer them over Bentleys in terms of reliability and technology.

i've had my s550 for about a year now (8,000 miles), and i cannot say enough good things about it. having had a dozen+ (lost count) benzos including at least one model in each of the s-class lines since the w126 came out, i feel i have some credibility in my statements. never ever have i experienced quality in both ride and functional performance like this s550. i've had ZERO issues.

i think it is also worth mentioning that i bought the car primarily for safety. the older i get, the more i realize how important that is - moreso than power or ride or status for that matter. in my opinion, i would have a better chance of surviving a catastrophic wreck in this car than any other in the world. yeah - i paid $100,000 for it --- but i'll be alive in the future to tell the tales! what better way to spend your money - then to save your life!

i won't go into all the details but we've had an exceptionally harsh winter here in chicago this year, and i found myself in a compromised saftey situation last month in the middle of a ten-inch snowstorm. the s550's pre-safe system took over and not only prepared me for the impending impact (seat automatically moved to a more favorable crash position, belts tightened, abs activated and brake pressure flow increased) but also stopped the car on a downhill incline coverd in ice and snow before i rammed the back of a line a cars in front of me. all was well. the only thing the car did not do was serve up a glen levit to calm my nervous!

bottom line: quality, quality, quality like none other. and most importantly, safety like none other.

i think benzo got it right out of the box with this thing. i would not hesitate to encourage anyone to buy one - especially if their trepidations are entrenched in a perceived quality issue.

+1:y Well said. I love my 2001 W210, and am fully aware of the problems that it has. People can't judge upon what some 'writer' says...go out and try for yourself. I, for one, KNOW for a fact that once Chrysler was out of the picture, Daimler-Benz will once again be the best.

Mercedes has certainly gotten better in quality, particularly in the case of the 221. The W220 had alot of problems for various reasons, not the least of which had to do with the fact that they decided to basically build the entire car from the ground up with new technology. The W221's dont really have the sort of relaibility problems like ten years ago. Still I do see some come into the dealer form time to time and they do have problems but it looks like they are getting better.

Much better in fact. Other than having that idler pulley going bad on me, my car has done very well. I just hope it does well up to 100K miles without any major problems.
Honestly though, since I don't do much driving, I'll probably get a C class next time. My car is overkill for what little driving I do. I really enjoy driving my wife's C 350. Plus , I'd like to retire in the next 4 to 5 years and the toy prices will have to drop to do that:)

I like my C to be sure but there is a certain comfortable feel that the new S has that the C does not. Alas I wish I could afford the S.

2007 S-550
 

I don't underestand the quality issue with the MB 550. I bought mine in March 2007 and have driven it 29,000 miles. I have never had a more trouble-free auto. I have not had a single issue. It's a wonderful experience to take it into the dealership for it's routine service (12,000 miles) and tell the service advisor there is nothing to report!!!! A great auto.

Yup, Thats why it cost 3X what a c cost!

And for us 600/65 owners.....5 to 7 times the price!!! Which raises a point that has been in my mind for a while.
Do you guys believe that the quality level in trim detail is better when you step up from one model level to another? Even within a model, do you think that the attention to detail is better from a 550 to a 63 to a 600 to a 65???

I seem to think so but it may be my imagination. Anyone willing to elaborate on this notion? Of course, the 65 owners would know this better as they have had the luxury of owning all of the different cars or have been in loaner cars to compare.

In other words, is their a hidden/unmentioned improvement in quality and attention to detail placed into the more expensive models when one examines a S550 versus a S65?
My salesman and I were discussing this and we came to the common conclusion that their seems to be. Again, may be imagination.

Interesting question....

Would guess quality levels are generally higher on higher-end classes, i.e., S/CL higher than E/C, etc....prob higher-caliber (and better paid) employees are awarded the role of working on S/CL R&D and mfg....after all, these models are only ?10% of MB unit sales but represent some ?40% of operating profits....

Within S/CL-Classes, what's hard to separate out are all the elevated interior materials used in 600/65....finer-grain leather, Alcantara headliner, leather trim/stitching around the rear headrests/rear shelf, etc etc....

But from my obviously non-statistically signif examination of several 550/63/600/65, would suspect build quality is superb generally (adjusting for different quality of materials).....

That said, know at least 3-4 colleagues (each of whom buys several new $150K+ MB/AMGs per yr) who have had their new 65s bought back by MB for lemon law issues (specific to flawed motor)....the process was handled seamlessly by MB, but each of these guys has a long history of buying new $150K+ MBs from a major dealer in SF/LA/NYC; I don't know if a first-time/one-off 65 buyer would have been treated as graciously if their 65 was problematic....and I don't know what relative lemon rates are for 600 vs 63 vs 65....:nix:

My general sense is hand-finished stuff like leathers, etc will likely be higher quality w/low-vol, higher-end models; need high MSRP and high profit margins to justify that attention to detail...but w/mechanical/hardware/software aspects like engines/computer elements/various safety systems, etc, suspect need scale (and profitable pricing) to optimize innovation vs quality&reliability...scale esp to justify R&D investment and to quickly find issues and debug.....my sense is that AMG is not investing much/anything in 65 R&D over past several yrs....and the small scale of 65 produc makes debugging a far more difficult process....

Well said:y

Have been driving new CLs since my early 20s....to me, safety is inextricably linked to perf; perf w/o superior safety (e.g., Ferrari) is fairly meaningless to most of those w/sound risk/reward judgment and who can afford any car....any monkey can engineer a fast/comfortable car....superior active/passive safety is far more complex/multidimensional....

Personally, have never been impressed w/either innovation or execution of active/passive safety structures/tech/dynamics of any other brand (incl Porsche, Audi, BMW, Lexus, Bentley, Volvo, etc etc) when compared vs today's S/CL....there's no useable hard data re: either safety or reliability....one needs to do own common-sense/anecdotal analysis and test drives to form judgments....and this forum has plenty of real-world ownership expce being shared....:y:zoom:

Mercedes Quality
 

I have owned 6 new mercedes since 1991. I can trufully say that Mercedes has more small problems than anyother automobile I have ever had(LexusLS, Infiniti, Cadillac. My latest Mercedes 2007 S550, drives and rides as good or better than most. It is the small problems that bug me. The automatic windshileld wipers, for example, will come on it sunny dry weather and have to be turned off to stop them. The Mercedes answer is to leave them off of automatic. Never hd the problem with Lexus. Maybe Mercedes should hire their designers.

The navigation system is, in my opinion, the worst system of all the cars. If I set my navigation to take me to the Mercedes dealer, it takes be to the Toyota dealer instead, about 1/2 mile away. When I complain, I only get smiles. How can you trust the system when it won't take you to the correct place that you know is right. They have had 7 or 8 years to correct thlis lousy system and haven't.

For quietness, the Lexus is by far the quietest, with little engine noise or wind noise. If the Mercedes drivers and designers can't see this, they aren't being true to themselves.

The saving grace and the reason I buy the Merecdes is the safety. I feel that all being equal I could survive an accident in my S550 that I might not in the other cars. I hope I don't have to test this theory.

Until the company starts listening to the comsumers and respond, they will never catch up with the Japanese automobile companies.

My experience with the W221 is totally opposite of what you experience. My wipers don't come on spontaneously like that. Never have.

The ride is smoother than a Lexus and the interior is quieter than Lexus. Sorry to disagree but I beg to differ on that opinion. The Lexus was much noisier to me and is one reason I walked away from it.

As far as the nav, I love it. Takes me exactly to where I want to go with extreme precision. The only time I complained about the nav was when I later realized I was not utilizing the heads up screen like I should have and originally blamed the system when in fact it was my own fault.

Safety is just a given with Mercedes. I've never even questioned that hopefully unused feature.

The W220 was a black eye to MB and they were true to themselves about the quality problems of that car.....that is why the W221 is so good. The only prior problems I've had with Mercedes vehicles I've owned (7 in all), were window motors and bulbs going out and those were all models prior to 2006. Each time it happened, either it was a 10 minute trip to the autozone store for a new bulb or the dealership replaced a window motor within 2 days.

Apparently Mercedes listened as I've not had any electrical problems with the newer vehicles.

I have the wiper problem also. . . almost defeats the idea of auto wipers.

I have the CD based navigation which has been great even though ~9 CDs is not as good as just having one DVD. Also, making me use the one in dash drive for the navigation was not too thought out. It should be an in dash changer so that I can either load up almost all the Nav CDs, or at least have music CDs in there. The CD changer in the glove box takes up nearly all the glove box space.

I inherited an '07 cadillac, and it makes you put the stupid thing in park in order to plot a new destination which sucks something serious. My wife thought it was broken for a while. I eventually figured it out - that's supposed to be a safety feature, I guess?:nix:

The best, most user friendly navigation I have seen/used is in the Acura. I think Alpine actually makes it, but I am not sure.

You are not talking about a W221. Although I have not had problems with my W211s either (I guess you were talking about a C-class, but I don't have experience about that). I'm with Trumpet1 here, I have not had any spurious wiper operation. I guess your glass is clean and no chips? Perhaps the sensor should be tuned to be less sensitive. Or are you driving some specific areas where you would get IR reflections to the sensor, then it should happen mostly at the same place(s).

As far as engine noise is concerned, no European car maker tries to make an isolation chamber like a Lexus. A Lexus is a large Toyota in looks, feel and operation, nothing more. Mercedes, BMW, Jaguar, etc. etc. all want you to hear the engine to a degree.

M

I am interested in purchasing an w221 S, but wonder about the reliability over the long-term. I typically buy cars that I really like and keep them for extremely long periods of time, not because I can not afford to purchase a new one but because I simply like the car and see no reason to buy new cars every 3-5 or even 10 years. However reliability with very few problems is essential. I have considered the S550, S63 and S600. It seems that the S600 V12 or all V12 engines are a money pit so I think that is out for me. I will consider the S63 or S550 depending on test drive and reliability data, although the data is somewhat limited at this point.

Should I be looking at a different manufacturer other than Mercedes? I do not like the Lexus styling and the current BMW 7-series reliability seems to have been very poor over its entire life. I am also considering an Arnage, but an all new car is due in 2010 so I will probably wait on that not to mention the Arnage is technologically behind the times. Does anyone have a solution? Are there any long-term S-Class drivers with cars that have lasted 15-20 years here? If so please chime in.

When it comes to German cars, you couldn't be in the market at a better time. I think if you bought an S550 you'd be extremely happy for many years as this series will probably go down in history as the best built/designed Mercedes ever.
But as far as trouble free for 10+ years, your best bet would probably be a Honda Accord but of course that wouldn't be a luxurious ride like the W221.

My wife drives a Honda and I drive a Nissan and the Nissan has had far fewer problems. The Honda was far more prone to engine oil leaks. The Nissan had some oil leaks but fewer. I think that a problem free car after 5+ years is not really realistic. I expect things to wear out even the occassional oil leak, but I am referring to engines and transmissions needing to be replaced or electronic gremlins running completely amuck. I woul dlike to purchase a W221 that would be a reliable daily commuter for 15-20 years.

AHall: We also like to keep our cars for a long time and as long as we still enjoy driving them we see no need to change them frequently.

So far we kept our cars a minimum of 12 years and never had anything even remotely comparable to engine/transmissions needing to be replaced. But keep in mind that we dont' use them all that much (the W140 from 95 has only 80'000 km and the W210 from 97 has 130'000 km).

I think the key here is how the car is driven and maintained. As long as they're not abused and regularly serviced, they will last you a long time.

The S550 is a great car but my problem with is it is that I just don't like the design of it.

+1. :y

I really don't think 15-20 years is realistic anymore with any car. Every single car in the class Japanese or German is loaded with all types of electronic gadgets that will eventually act funny with the passage of time. The day when a Mercedes was really simple are over, they're no long all mechanical like they were in the 80's and early/mid 90's. Why would you want to drive any car daily for 15-20 year? What you're looking for is totally unrealistic with any one one of these cars including the S-Class. By the time the W221 gets that old replacing any number of things that may wear out will be hugely expensive and simply not worth until you plan on keeping the car truly "forever".

That said If you don't like the Lexus or the BMW then Mercedes-Benz and Audi are you only bets. I wouldn't bet on an Audi for such a long haul either, their history says otherwise. Mercedes' used to be 15-20 year cars, but with so much electronics on board I doubt that now, without some type of expensive repair. 6-9 years no sweat, but after than it is only natural to have to spend some serious money on a Benz, especially one with the complication of a S550. As a daily driver depending on mileage you're going spend more on a Benz than you would if it were your weekend car. Forget the S63 AMG, more engine than your requirements are willing to put with.

M

I agree, the older version W220 had numerous except the last model years from 04-06 but MB sure stepped up on the new W221 Fleet.

^^^The 2000 W220 was pretty bad with respect to electronic issues...the 2004 W220 was even worse...i was so happy to get rid of the 2004 version...the quality on that car really had me considering never buying a mercedes again...i started looking elsewhere with lexus, bmw, audi even...but in the end i needed all wheel drive and i wasn't about to spend 100,000+ on a lexus (since the Ls 600h L is the only Lexus LS option for awd) and i wasn't going to buy a soon to be restyled A8, so i ended up going with the S550...it was definitely worth it...it looks like they got it right this time...

I totally agree, the sound of that V8 is great. :zoom:

Thanks for the response Germancarfan. I have been working on cars for about 20 years now and realize that things are cars do wear out over time no matter what car you have. That is why I originally referenced the engine and transmission as areas of concern. The other items that can wear out or become faulty can be replaced without a huge expense. Do you speak from experience of owning a car in this class for more than 10 years or just assumptions?
I would really like to know what people's are actual experiences have been even though this is a new car and past performance may not be a good indicator of future performance.

Given all the problems I have had with my 02 S500 and my 05 S500 i will NEVER purchase another Merc. My SA swears that the new W221 will have fewer problems,but admits he has seen more electrical issues than he initally thought. I too am interested to see how this model holds up after a few years.

Thanks for the input gellie. I guess I will wait and see. I can wait a few years before I really need to make a purchase anyways. I forgot to add that I was also concerned about the reliability of major systems like active body control in addition to the engine and transmission. In fact I would probably be more concerned about this than the engine and transmission. I could see that be a huge expense if ity went out after warranty. But I guess extended warranties may be the way to go for the life of the car.

A Question of Investment & Timing of Purchase
 

It is true that MB has had a stained decade or so with the quality issues. But as I understand it, they decided to make a concious effort to ensure little goes wrong with their cars nowadays. Tolerance levels during testing are zero or near zero and it is a good thing they have removed ECMs and made the car less dependent on electronics. I think the S class was the first to benefit from this, followed by the C class, which by the way, is selling like hot cakes and doing very well from a reliability standpoint.

As with most cars, there is also the reliability difference in buying a car during its launch year versus a face-lifted model and one close to end-of-life. Launch year customers obviously faced more problems and end-of-life purchases should give you an almost "perfect" car. But customers do not want to deal with this and I think MB has got the message. Afterall, how much farther down the JD Powers ratings can they or do they want to go?

In Singapore, BMW and Audi ate into MB's market share...until the new S class and C class was introduced. New designs with higher reliability and the prices are still 10-15% higher than BMW. Ask anyone who has owned a 7 series and somehow, even when it is a end-of-life model, it still gives problems. Sure, I could have saved up to 20% buying a 7 series but I have been in enough BMWs to know that somehow, things inside the cabin start to creak after 2-3 years, I have to pay more for serviving the car and I would be stuck with a poor resale situation (in Singapore anyway). Overall, MB has now reached a fine balance between luxury and performance that suits my tastes. I do not need anything else. I am partial, perhaps, but hell, I have had fun and comfort with my two MBs in the past 7 years (yes, ny E class from 2004-2007 was free from problems!) and I am not about switch to anything else.:):):):)

Not ownership of an S-Class (lowly CLK) and not assumptions either, just going by other people I know with S and E-Class Benzes over the years. I don't think the past is a good way to judge the W221 because the previous W220 was built during the Mercedes' darkest period when it comes to quality and the W221 has thus far proved to be a totally different experience. There won't be any really hard data on the W221 for some years. I just don't think that keeping any car of this ilk is going to be trouble free for as long as you're looking to do so. There are too many electronic systems and what not to go wrong, going to be expensive to repair.

M

Geez, you buy cars to last for 20 years as daily commuters and you may "wait a few more years" before making a purchase? You drive an old Honda and Nissan and are looking at Arnage's and S63's?? If you keep waiting several years for the next model you will never own a new car because the models will change faster than your evaluation cycle! Here are a couple of tips before visiting the dealership- borrow a neighbor's car to take to the dealership; when asked how soon you are planning to make a purchase don't tell the saleman "a few more years"; during the test drive don't ask "are we moving yet" once you experience the ride difference between the Arnage/S63 and your Sentra and Honda! :crazy:

Similar story with my mother in law. She spent a year looking for that special bargain on a Honda Element (the boxy looking thing) and she ended up saving maybe $500 on the deal. This is after driving hundreds and hundreds of miles going from one dealership to another trying to get that "great" deal. I bet she spent $2000 in gas all in all.
Now here's the clincher: She finally buys the car about 3 months ago in her own home city and has not driven it yet!!! It sits in the garage. She keeps driving the old beater she's had for nearly 25+ years!!

:crazy:

One thing I've always wondered is why someone would change car every couple of years or even after only 6 months.
As long as I enjoy driving them everyday, I don't see a reason to change them. And to tell the truth, the w140 still gives me a lot more pleasure than the w220 but it's not 4matic, so it stays in the garage during the winter months.

With regular maintenance (once a year) the mercedes can last more than 15 years. I do not know about the new models. but i have 1996 S320 (6 cylinder) I bought as used car in 1999. it's maintenance cost me from 300$ to 2000$ yearly at maximum rate. I traveled for more than 350000 Km in this car and car is in good condition. The major problem that I have faced was corrosion. I painted my car twice. sometimes weather temperature can reach above 50 degrees Celsius in my country in the summer. But I have never stopped the car on the side of the road because of heat. At this time of the year engine temperature can reach about 110 but it never reaches 120.

Consumer Reports gave the 2007 S class a poor reliability rating based on the responses to their survey :shakehead. A particular troublesome spot was Power Equipment (The big black dot). Power Equipment includes Cruise control, heated or cooled seats, body control module, keyless entry, wiper motor or washer, tire pressure monitor, interior or exterior lights, horn, gauges, 12V power plug, alarm or security system, backup camera/sensor.

I'm bewildered by this rating. Have never had a more trouble free car. For those of of you who own MY07's, would you agree that Power Equipment is particularly troublesome?

Somebody needs to do a consumer report rating on Consumer Reports magazine as that rating is complete and total :bs:

RTFM - You're not suppose to leave them on all of the time!


Page 382 -

Intermittent wiping

Only switch on intermittent wiping under
wet weather conditions or in the presence
of precipitation.

Thank you!!! :y Some things just need to be emphasized I guess.:rolleyes:

I believe all these problems(and many others) have been widely discussed throughout the web.

Intemittent wiping isn't the same as automatic. The IR sensor that works the automatic wipers has always been trouble-prone, although I've only personally had one fail on a C55. I wouldn't be surprised to hear of one acting up on a W221, though.

I'm looking for the people who actually own an 07 and belong to this forum to validate that this is or isn't the case. Have there really been that many part failures? Given the full Black dot, I would expect that at least half the people who post on this forum should have encountered a problem. I saw one post from one person who had a bad back-up camera, but that's about it. A lot of the stuff I see posted can be attributed to people not knowing how the systems work.

Keep in mind that the majority of new s550 drivers are 60+ and more than half being female,I would not expect a large turnout on the forums. Most are very willing to express there displeasure on a hard copy survey.

I am an early adopter and have a 2007 model. I've owned it since October of 2006 and started posting on this forum at or near that time since.
The only part failure I've had is my idler pulley went bad. No big deal, 4 days in the shop and it was fixed perfectly. Really, it was their first time to see this problem on a W221 and failed to order one part by mistake and that was the only reason it took 4 days, otherwise, they admitted it was only a 2 day job. My tech is always upfront with me and tells me even when they make slight goofs. I respect that and I understand how these things go.

But overall, this car is impeccable and amazingly fabulous especially in its first year of production (at least for US dealerships).

You're right, most of the problems are reported due to ignorance and user error and not enough willingness to RTFM.
To some degree, I wish it was a requirement to join this forum to get simple answers to minor problems.

Well, it looks like that's how they solved the sensor problem :).

That is exactly it. As you see there have been no problems on this forum with things like that. I hate to smear a whole group of people, but folks who live by Consumer Reports are usually clueless, at least those looking to them for automotive help. TVs, DVRs, etc, yes by all means, but for cars there are much better sources. People not knowing how things work (and this complaing and saying that things don't work) is why MB has deconted their cars every since those really bad years from 2000-2005 when CR said that MB was the worst brand in the country for reliability.

M

I have one of the first 2007 CL550's in the US, mfg Sept 2006, delivered in Nov 2006, and have had absolutely nothing fail. I had to replace a tire due to a road hazard that punctured the sidewall. I have only had it into the dealer for 12 month oil change (cost $150) and to have the nav system upgrade installed.

njs430 - - to answer your question from above - - i am an owner of a 2007 s550 4 matic for not quite one year now (bought new in early may 07). i now have 8200 miles on the clock and not one lick of a problem. with anything. full stop. just had the first annual ("a service") maintenance done, and there were no bulletins or recalls or anything. most perfect benzo i have ever owned. not sure where consumer reports is getting thier black eye/dot on said category. this car is simply perfect in every respect.

My experience has been the same. There is simply nothing that has failed on mine. I have never been a big fan of Consumer Reports simply because I have never been satisfied with anything I purchased that they recommended. Seems they always push the best of the mediocre. I think their survey is severely flawed. They admit it is based on the opinion of their readers and not validated to ensure that the failures actually occurred.

I also think their opinion of the command controller is simply wrong. I'll admit, I was a little apprehensive about it before getting my car, but after using it, I don't understand how you could not see how this is the best way to control the features of car this complex. If they think the command interface is too complicated and confusing, then maybe they need to give their testers an IQ test. It didn't take me a week to learn the whole system.

I don't think anyone else who has tested the Lexus against the S550 didn't see the S550 as clearly the better car. Yet their opinion is exactly the opposite stating the Lexus is easily the better car. They seem to value gas mileage over driving experience. Either that or they are so bias toward Toyota, they just can't admit the truth. I suspect the reliability report was published to support their statement when they tested the car. Still I would be open to hearing from anyone who has truly had problems with power system failures on their MY07.

What really bothers me is their opinion effects the depreciation of my car.

^^^ Great post!


M

I've seen repeated posts on places like yahoo autos and edmunds where S-class owners are complaining about squeaky brakes. Have you guys ever had squeaky brakes?

not on this one. past benzos? yes. not this 550, however. absolutely perfect in all respects.

Squeaky brakes are a bit of a problem on all MB models. A set of brake pads were also changed from some W221 cars.

I had noticeable squeak on my W211 but got rid of it with the service MB suggests for this. On the W221 I have noticed it a couple of times. This has been after a rainy day drive, leaving the car parked and then when first leaving with the car, reversing and applying brakes softly.

I would say a bit of squeak is an indicator of performance brakes on the car. Honestly, it is relatively easy to get completely rid of the noise but that would be a compromise for brake performance (power and lifetime).

Squeaky brakes are a random issue w/various perf braking systems....

I haven't had this issue on my various AMGs....but it clearly exists w/some copies....

But had squeaky brakes as a periodic issue on one of my past Porsche Turbos w/PCCBs (a 996TTS; though one of my colleagues who had 997TT w/next-gen PCCB also had awful squeaking, though my 997TT w/PCCB didn't have this issue)....and some Porsches w/steel brakes apparently also suffer from this....

Some Ferraris w/CCM brakes also have periodic squeaking.....though know many guys w/CCM-equipped F's who have had quiet brakes...

Often such squeak issues develop after much low-speed urban driving....one way to try to "self-cure" the issue is to rigorously brake (obviously on an empty fwy) from 70MPH to near-zero several times....seems to occasionally work....

But my sense is most competent techs at AMG/F/P still struggle w/solving this random issue....and The Big 3 clearly have the world's best braking systems (test-drive some cars like BMWs or Lambos in steep mtn twisties to better appreciate what are clearly laughable brakes in an alleged perf car:))....so will tolerate some annoying squeaks if I believe a braking system will perform better in dry/wet/smooth/bumpy emergent braking: an important element of active safety......

wsh... i've seen some of your posts... very informative... but do you always end every sentence with "....." ...?? :rolf:

Also use lots of slashes, etc...what can I say?....am just a curmudgeon w/many quirks...:):y:zoom:

As long as he is capable of buying a new MB every 6 months, I don't care what he ends his sentences with......:D

"and The Big 3 clearly have the world's best braking systems (test-drive some cars like BMWs or Lambos in steep mtn twisties to better appreciate what are clearly laughable brakes in an alleged perf car"

Well, I'm normally on the 204 forum, but logging in I noticed this forum for the new S class. Hmmm........ do buyers of a new S class bother with internet forums? Apparently so.

Anyway I don't quite get you meaning WSH. Do you mean BMW brakes really are lousy or that the Big 3 performance car brakes are lousy?? My brakes do squeak too.

As to reliability, a British forum I joined mirrors this one - 98-2003 were the dark years. Even German cabbies started to leave the brand. Lots of rust in UK cars too.

SO far the C has been faultless. Every thing has worked perfectly well, except the rain sensing wipers, which seem to have a mind of their own about how wet things are, but I find that more amusing than irritating. I expect it to last 15 years. An 82 Audi was still running after 14 years and I still own a 97 Pontiac, which my son now uses. So, 15 years should be duck soup for a Merc.

Cheers

Keith

I got to tell you'll - as much as I love my S there are a couple of things that jump out that make me ..:crazy: or :rolleyes:

For one - cheap feel and quality of front grille on hood. It's chrome-finished plastic that's simply not solid. It also has an affinity to hold on to discoloration and stains. It took me a heck of a time to polish some stains off it - not sure where they came from since my car is in pristine condition.

Rear view mirror housing. Cheap plasticy feel...

Again, don't get me wrong - I'm not trying to find things to complain about but when you drop $100k+ on a car, certain things are expected. Worse still, when I look over at my wife's Lexus GX470 I don't see that same quality in the chrom finished plastic. It's just solid!

Agreed about the grill. Perhaps it is because pedestrian collision requirements in the EU are becoming ever more demanding. I do miss those old MB cheese grater grills through!

What jumps out at me are those cheap looking plastic grab handles in the roof. (They used to have wood options in the older S-Class models)

However these are small things in the grand scheme of things. We could just as easily write about what feels really solid/quality!

Chris

Just as an FYI I have owned a 2001 E320 and a 2004 E500 and currently own a 2007 S550. Every model I bought with every single option available with the exception of Body Kits "like AMG etc"


I have not had a single problem with any of them. The 2001 E I traded in for the '04 so I can't tell you how that one is going now, but the '04 E I sold to my brother 2 years ago and he has YET to have any problems with it, and my S550 which is now over 2 years old has been flawless and by far the best car I or anyone else that has been in it has ever experienced.

It's easy to find negative articles about cars, but at the same time there is a reason why Mercedes is one of the best car companies in the world and all other manufacturers are trying to copy, compare themselves to, and catch up to them. I've even had people that know nothing about Mercedes say to me "You know that it's just a Chrysler!!" and I simply smile and say nothing knowing how ignorant that comment was.

ok boys (and girls) - in the spirit of full and fair disclosure - my perfect 07 s550 4matic is now not so perfect. i was driving from chicago to pittsburgh last week (500 miles one way) and just 1/2 way there (outside of toledo, ohio), the airmatic system malfunctioned. i contacted tele-aid, and they were really good about assuring me i could finish the remaining 4 hours of my 8 hour trip with no problems. i did.

i took the car to a dealer in pittsburgh the next day, and they serviced the problem. 4 hours later the car was fixed. the short test found codes for airleaks that required a replacement of the "belly pans" (whatever those are). they pin tested the compressor and found no power. they had to replace a 40 amp fuse that was blown, a relay and the entire airmatic compressor (i was lucky they had all the parts in stock!). the replacement of those four parts cleared the error codes and the car now works as advertised. i drove back to chicago yesterday without incident.

so - the airmatic system failed and is therefore not perfect (just like on the w220 series) but was fixed promptly and without any hemming and hawing from the dealer in the pittsburgh area. in fact - the pittsburgh dealer really bent over backwards for me to get the car fixed and on my way given i was 500 miles from home. a-one service from those boys at john sisson motors. let's hope this airmatic failure is not an omen of things to come.

P-B-32.22/49a – problem known since SEPT07, bulletin revised JAN08
https://mbworld.org/forums/showpost....0&postcount=58

Might I suggest to everyone the next time you are in for service, mention the DTB and request that the dealer perform a Star Diagnosis short test and inspect the harness for precaution to circumvent any possible future problem. BTW, no build date or VIN restrictions.

Well there exceptions to everything, but most people had nothing but trouble out of the models I listed. The problem seems to be with Mercedes, at least during those years, was that you either got a great one or a really bad one as far as reliability went.

Of course there is a reason why Mercedes is Mercedes, 120+ years of being a leader in many things, but they aren't perfection anymore. When I hear stuff like that Chrysler comment I just turn away. Such a person is obviously too far gone to be saved.

M

The CEO from the past had the view that building quality does not pay out, a car company would make more profit buy building less expensive cars even if that affected quality. This has been acknowledged being a mistake by the current company leaders. Perhaps it takes time and it is too early to make accurate estimates about the quality of W221 and W204 models but it looks like a good improvement has already been achieved.

In any case we should not compare the W123 for a car that fulfils current environmental and comfort requirements. The same reliability for 10 times more complexity would probably result to an unaceptable car price.

Good points. MB couldn't go on building cars they way they used too otherwise the S-Class would be what the Maybach is today. Too much old-school, overweight and overpriced!

M

One more thing - would have really loved to see more wood trim in the interior. For one, they could have put wood trim around the seat control knobs (on the doors). That would have added a very nice elegant touch and complimented the trim along the cabin. Also, the CD changer door should have been wood.

Sigh!

These are probably things they leave out for now so they will have something to do to make the upcoming refresh models look refreshing. I know the current CL models have the wood in the places you just mentioned. I also see them replacing the dull aluminum door sills with chromed ones like they did in 2003 on the W220.

^^^ Yep.

Long as you guys are reduced to talking about these little things I know MB turned out a great car from the start. The 2010 facelift is going to be really something.

M

As far as reliability, our S550 4Matic (w/ AMG pack) has had no problems. We've had the car for quite some time and have only had to take it in for oil changes.

We used to have an 01 S-Class and it absolutely sucked in regards to quality (tons of trips to the dealership for warranty work). We had to put in new Airmatic suspension (should have gotten ABC anyways), new navigation unit, new AC unit, Sunroof had to be replaced, among other things. Either way, nothing is worse than my former RRS S/C. LR HAS THE WORST BUILD QUALITY OF ANY CAR MANUFACTURER IN EXISTENCE! (Sorry, but I had to throw that in there... )

You think that is bad... go peep the E60 M5 boards. Not to mention the Chris Bangle nightmare that is happening at BMW right now. Audi and Merc OWN BMW in styling. :topic:

I would say the late 90s into the early 00s were the dark days for MB. No one can deny the problems MB has gone through in that ~10 year period. My father's 2001 S500 (W220) was horrendous. In the first year it was in the shop for over 3 months. The dealer replaced the entire suspension, then the COMAND unit or whatever it was called, then the AC unit for not working at all, then more service for other lights that would randomly light up on the dash. It really left a sour taste in my mouth for MB. My friend's family who had one of the earlier MLs ended up threatening to sue the dealership if they didn't take back the car. Unheard of for MB. We waited for a long time to replace the S500 (it was destroyed in a house fire several years ago). I held out on my purchase of the W221 until I heard about the reliability horror stories... and there were none. My S550 has been remarkably trouble free since purchase and I am back in love with MB. I do think it was MB trying to shoehorn too much stuff at once into one vehicle (W220) while at the same time going through a cost-cutting overhaul of their design-to-production system of building cars. They meant well, but they executed horribly. Other makers have done that more successfully. I hope they've learned their lesson and move on to produce more rock-solid vehicles. I did look at the LS and 7 but always came back to MB. Both competitors were really good and for the price the LS would have been a steal. (I'm actually curious about the LS Sport) I'm not really into Audi's so no A8 for me.

You may have seen/heard of specific issues reported from europe. If so, I apologise now - if not, read on.

By 2003/4 the reliability and quality issues with MB cars had reached crisis point. During car tests run in the UK, failures were publicly shown during programmes. The entire range was beset with issues - electrical, mechanical and material.

MB subsequently went into standard MBA answer waffle mode and admitted that they'd been greedy with profit margins which had lead to corner cutting. They were, they said, mounting a campaign to right all of those wrongs. This was to start 2004/5.

The perceptions of a bad car will likely continue with people buying used cars of the pre-2004 vintage.

As to whether or not the later ranges are improved, is as yet yet, unknown due to the ongoing concerns raised, again, across the media.

However, the self same perceptions are beginning to plague BMW and Audi. Anecdotally, I know three engine failures in M3's of the six cylinder variety. X5's are known to be troublesome (Diesel) too. Audi has reportedly suffered significant engine problems with petrol motors. My own experience with a west London dealer was shabby to say the least.

I'm currently considering a range of cars; Bentley, Mercedes, BMW and Lexus and Porsche. Out of those vehicles, only Lexus and Porsche seem to be 'okay'. Jaguar have also recently finished second in UK reliability tests.

BMW have just announced a recall on something like 1.3 million vehicles. Lexus problems were well documented recently.

Personally, I don't think there's a car out there that is genuinely bulletproof. Warranty, purchase from dealer, service histories and ignoring much of the stuff you read are probably the only way to achieve some peace of mind.

2011 E350 Cabriolet Problems
 

Needing some advice (as well as a place to vent...):

I have been in love with my 2011 E350 Cabriolet for the last year and 4 months I have had it....but let me just say, I am about to give this thing UP!

The first year, I had repeated PSI problems, driver side window would not roll up without stalling and going down for 3 tries, and my passenger door was LOOSE. YES, LOOSE- you could feel air on the highway...TERRIFYING! Then towards the 1 year mark, my stereo sound (and all of its features) began to go silent for 5 to 45 minutes at a time. The irony of driving THAT car with headphones in was almost funny, ALMOST.

From November until now I have made 3 more visits to the service department. The first of these for continued window stalling, and continued stereo problems. The second 3 weeks ago for: key battery replacement (they replaced the batteries in both), and (again) continued stereo problems, windshield washer fluid, and other small things. Three days after getting my car back that time the convertible top would not go down, my key battery was low again 2 weeks later, my stereo was getting worse, and the right side of my hood would not fully close (this had been an issue for a while but I kept forgetting to bring it up).

Went to my appointment Wednesday with these problems to soon find out that not only did they have to order parts, replace my keys entirely, etc. etc. ETC (under warranty thank goodness) but the BIG shocker was that they heard sloshing noises during the test drive. There was apparently so much water in my floorboards (especially the passengers side, the side with the open hood) that my carpet was soaked under the floor mats (where much of the system wiring is). Of course, this is not under warranty and I will be spending over 1 grand for them to simply take my car apart and attempt to find the problem....then my interior needs to be replaced.

What I'm getting at is that I have not allowed rain, etc. to get into my car and MB service department said that it wasn't the debris-clogged pipes/hoses under the windshield wipers or the AC. So, my question is: has anyone had this problem before? Could the stereo/system problems be a result of water damage? And most importantly, WHY IS THIS NOT COVERED BY MY WARRANTY!!!!! One of my rims were slightly bent, throwing off my alignment and they fixed that under warranty without me even pointing it out to them- so how is this very obvious manufacturing issue not covered? Any advice would help at this point. Having these issues from a brand new car in less than 1.5 yrs from purchase is unacceptable and I am horrified to see what problems I will be dealing with 5 years from now when all of my warranties are up (assuming I even keep it that long). Please help!!

S550 2010 Electrical Failure
 

I am a big Mercedes fan, but latest electrical failure for 2010 S550 has dealer stumped. On three occasions while driving, all of the dash warnings start coming coming on the display...SRS Malfunction, brake failure, power steering failure, cheek tire pressure, service required, pre-safe inoperable, etc. Then, when you stop and place transmission in park the message says to not change gears. In fact, the transmission locks in park. First time, I restarted car and everything was ok. The second time the car was towed to dealer at 10 PM, but the next morning they couldn't find any problem since car operated fine. I drove out of the dealership and within 45 minutes it happened again and I was able to drive it back and show the dealer all of the warnings and transmission locked in park again. Mercedes regional got involved an provided special diagnostic tools. They have had car for six weeks trying to recreate the problem, and say they can't use the new diagnostic equipment until the problem happens while they are driving it. This seems crazy.

This similar issue happened with my 2008 bmw 750 I forget what the issue was I will research for you but I know it wasn't a battery or alternator problem.

Maybe they should just buy/keep your car and give you a similar replacement vehicle that is your own so you don't have random people driving around in your car for weeks... Maybe you have an electrical issue and those could be really tough to track down.

Lets be honest the S550/CL550 transmission are not the greatess. My CL550 has been in the shop for the pass month for transmission problems. It's embrassing. I do have a extended warranty but who has time for their car to be in the shop every 3 months.
Those of you without a warranty should pray everyday something doesn't go wrong.

Wow how blind are we when trying to get a status quo with a Mercedes name. Wake up people MB indeed has failed to keep up with reliability issue. For the price of an arm and a leg we expected a higher standard hence the quote we get what we pay for!! In fact in general all German automobiles are less reliable than Japanese cars. It's got to do with their engineering and probably their cultural pride that they have created the ultimate automobile.They tried to create more features but failed to fully seamlessly integrate these at a flawless rate. I do have a BMW and MB. And surprisingly a Toyota Camry .i have spent more time trying to catch up with repairs in my Germans than my Japanese. We need to remember Germans were a1 engine manufacturers in ww2. One thing though German transmission seem to last longer than Japanese .

Mercedes target market for the S Class is a high dollar buyer who buys new or leases, keeps the car a couple of years and is on to a new one before the factory warranty is gone. Reliability over the first few years is fine.

Mercedes Benz as a manufacturer makes no money on the resale of a used S Class, which is how most of us on this sub-forum buy. In fact, the steep depreciation, which is a result in part of the likelihood of expensive maintenance and repairs, is what makes these cars affordable to guys like us, or me at least. I make a decent living but I'm not a buyer for a $108,000 car.

A commodity car, like an Asian built sedan (Camry, Accord etc) is a relatively simple, inexpensive machine that is expected to serve a long and troublefree life as a basic transportation appliance for a target owner who needs the car to outlast the payment coupon book and then some.

The mistake buyers of a used S Class make is first thinking that because the car was $100,000 new, it must therefore have better reliability than a car that was $50,000 new. In reality, it was $100,000 new because it's expensive to build. It was expensive to build because it's full of a bunch of expensive materials and technology, not because its parts are twice as reliable as a $50,000 car.

The only way IMO to buy a used S Class is CPO, with as much extra coverage as they'll sell you, and to dump the car the moment the warranty has expired.

Your statements above while true represent a departure from Mercedes former policy of building rugged, reliable and long lasting cars which was a big part as to why Mercedes could command a premium because they would last longer. I remembered thinking when I had my 06 E Class that it was a financial instrument for Mercedes which was meant to be a conduit between Mercedes and my wallet rather than "Here is a well built automobile, maintain it and it will last forever" days.

I do think that Mercedes has returned somewhat to that philosophy with the E and C class's of late.

Taking the above into consideration the W221's are beautiful cars. I am being tortured by one sitting on a local car lot that I pass by everyday on my way home from work. I know how Odysseus felt in the Odyssey. Must resist....

The siren's song is irresistible. I think in the late 90's MB designers made a decision to trade brawn and heft for lighter but smarter. Rather than relying on sheer mass and rugged construction for safety they turned to technology to both avoid accidents and to make them more survivable. Lighter cars get more performance from smaller powerplants, and use less fuel.

The thing about tech is that it's complex and reliant on a lot of parts and systems, and they're prone to glitches. Older MBs were (are) very well built, heavy, solid cars. I have an Indie shop in town that is always full of 80's era MB's with huge odometer numbers but still going strong and looking pretty good to, considering.

I will say my 221 has been more reliable than my prior 220's were, so maybe MB is getting better at making tech that holds up. I hope so for the sake of the 222 owners, because the tech in that car makes the tech in the 221 look like a Model T.

So what you are saying is resistance is futile.

The other thing is the OP was referencing issues with 2007 transmission which have been known to be problematic. That is one of the reasons I follow this board so intently is in the vain hope of trying to own one of these cars with the best shot of it not killing me financially.

If the 221 is inevitable, there is a way to own one and not spend the whole time waiting for it to bite you. CPO is the way to go. Anything that breaks is MB's problem. A CPO car costs more (MB charges the dealer $2k to issue the coverage, and the dealer has the costs of bringing the car up to CPO standards, which can get costly.)

The base CPO covers 12 months, and now unlimited mileage. For an extra $4500 you can extend to a total of 36 months. That's not cheap, but it's rare that an S goes into the shop and comes out with a bill much under $2k even for simple stuff.

My first CPO, a 2005 W220, had a total of $13,000 in CPO warranty repairs for which I paid nothing. They gave me a new C class to drive and handed the S back a couple days later good to go.It also blew a tranny 3k miles out of warranty that cost me $6,000.

I'm kinda bored with my 2010 S Class. It's in great shape (Florida car) has 62k on the odo, and another two years of full CPO until August 2016. Come and get it! :)

https://cimg8.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.mbw...18c740b5de.jpg

Well I am hoping that my S350 is as reliable as the posts indicate on this forum - seems the S350s owners do not seem to report a lot - maybe it just that I have not seen the posts?:nix:

IminPa has one so you may want to contact him about his experience so far.

I wouldn't read too much into that. There aren't a lot of 350 owners in the US in general.

Yes, but I also review the posts on the MBZ UK forums too. Seems that the gas car owners are more willing to speak up about issues even overseas. The fellow oil burners do not seem to report as much - could it be that the driving styles are so different that the gas car owners are seeing more issues due to stressing the car much more in their normal driving?:nix:

One thing I've noticed about the diesel guys, regardless of make or model or forum, is that they're really, really enthusiastic. If you look at complaints about the W221, engine problems are rare across the line. It's all the other stuff...suspension, electronics etc, and most of that stuff is universal. In that sense it's doubtful that the 350 specifically dodges the reliability bullet.

Very good points, and that does have me a little worried, however, the W221 seems to be much more reliable than the W220, and I hope the W222 is even more reliable and they bring back the diesel to the USE in the future.

Found a little oil beneath the car today, car is remaining over the weekend at the dealer to isolate and resolve - slow leak apparently. Also got a weird bug in the system, right front tire has been showing low and lower for a couple of weeks. I would fill the tire with air and then it would slowly leak down. This morning I got into the car and the TP alarm went off and the car indicated that I had 5 psi in the right front tire. I filled it full of air and then went into the dealer to have them check out the tire and the oil leak. The first report on the tire, was that it was fine but the sensors appeared to be reporting opposite of where they were actually located? I believe the sensors are ok, as the system indicated that the front right tire was very low and it was very low. Dealer sofar could not find the air leak.

anyone have a similar experience with their tires?

It's a little soon for the sensors to act up. They have little batteries in them and when the voltage gets low they can give erroneous readings. Usually when one goes bad the other three aren't far behind. I think they're covered under CPO though. My first 220 had an oil leak that turned out to be a main seal, and that of course was covered.

Honestly I've never gotten out of a service visit for under $1000. Between the regular service, plus replacing wear items and fixing whatever other little stuff that has cropped up, it's always a grand. But, they do have a nice lounge with free pastries and coffee, plus I get to walk around and play with all the new cars, so it works out.

LOL! you're hilarious....

I'm here all week! Try the veal! Seriously though, you should try selling your myth of the reliable S Class over on the W220 forum. Those poor basterds look like they could really use a good laugh. Hey, did you buy a 221? Didn't you have an 05 S500 in your profile a couple of weeks ago?

https://cimg2.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.mbw...975bbc84dd.jpg

Sorry to disappoint you, but I don't have the ****ty luck you do. Why do you keep comparing a 220 to a 221? BTW, what was the deal with your heater?
I'm actually going to take the wife to drive a Tesla S on Wed. Kinda hoping she doesn't like it. But, they do have a 8 year 125k warranty :-P

On owning a 220, nope. 221 for over 4 years with a few minor issues that never got anywhere near $1000......

Sadly. mine was just average luck. Above average considering all the tales of woe from 220 owners. Each one of my 220's stranded me at least once. The 06 with a blown tranny on the way to take my then 8 year old daughter out for her birthday. The 04 got stuck in park on a rare occasion when my wife took it out of town. It left her stranded in a Tampa shopping mall parking lot late at night. Of course both suffered Airmatic failures. Beautiful cars but finicky beasts and eventually I couldn't justify dumping more money in them. A well-maintained 220 with average miles now is a $10k car all day long.

The 221 has been better behaved so far but I've just crossed 65k miles. We'll see. By my calculations I'll see 100k miles in it before the warranty runs out.

A Tesla, huh? Love the idea of the car and the exterior. The interior is a deal breaker for me. That and they don't accept trades, and honestly they seem really pricey.

Man, I don't know if I could stomach another Mercedes if all that had happened to me. You've got good reason to be cautious. Mine have been pretty good to me.

I'm with you on the Tesla being awfully proud of their vehicles. Nice tax credits from feds and state, though. I'm very curious how it rides compared to the S550. I'm still trying to steer my wife to a 2012 or 13' E350 CPO, which was working until we pulled up next to a Tesla the other morning (*sigh*).

I'm thinking with roughly the same weight, slung way lower in the Tesla, and the available air suspension, plus less mechanical noise to overcome it should ride a lot like an S. I hope so for that kind of money.

Power is supposed to be amazing, and now there's a new option for an additional motor on the front axle for just under 700 HP and a 3.2 sec 0-60. Please post your thoughts after the drive!

Ok, the tire issue is a cracked rim, and I have coverage on that (keeping my fingers crossed). The oil leak still being researched. Also keeping my fingers crossed on the other N0x sensors. More info and Monday.

Ok, another update, the Turbo seal had to be replaced. Apparently this is not uncommon with this model. Hopefully they replaced it with an upgraded seal!:eek: Glad that was under warranty. They are still working on the tire/wheel warranty.

I'm glad I came upon this forum. I'll put my two cents in for the W221 S600 owners out there. I'm the second owner of a 2007, Barolo Red over Cashmere. I purchased it when it had 23k-24k miles on it and still had a warranty. Boy am I glad it was still under warranty for the first year and a half and 12,000 miles. My VIN is very low for the year, so I have one of the first '07s. You must keep that in mind as you read.

The first thing that went out was the the driver door speaker. Warranty covered. Next, the ECU for the rear A/C system which would randomly shut down. Also under warranty thank goodness. Next, the front right headlight control module - warranty. Next, ABC malfunction. One week in the shop and a full set of new accumulators later - fixed. Not under warranty, but Mercedes corporate and I came to an understanding. I paid something like $542 for a portion of the labor, they paid the rest. In hindsight, this would have been around $2k-$3k.

The latest thing was coolant leaking from the connections at the turbos. If you have a V12TT car, this WILL happen to you. Not a 'maybe' or 'uh huh sure', no, this will happen. Over time the rubber o-rings get hard, crack a little, and bam, you will come out one morning to a puddle of coolant. The car will drive fine and I suppose you could just keep adding coolant, but the repair involves removing the engine/exhaust/trans, then removing the engine mounts, then dropping the turbos. All to replace 4 o-rings. I cannot over emphasize that there is no way around this method. It may sound like I am making this up, but I assure you I am not. I just had this done at my local indie MB specialist. Dealers will charge through the nose for this repair as it requires a high attention to detail as well as many hours if it is done correctly. It was around $4500 for this repair.

But, everything is back together, dry and working great! I think the W221 is just a very complex machine and those of us who choose to own them must understand that the complexity comes with risk and reward. The rewards are a high level of luxury, safety, and performance. The risks (out of warranty) are mainly financial. Just about anything can be fixed. I haven't found anything mechanically wrong with mine. I think they are a very sound automobile, but with complex systems. My biggest recommendation if you are a second or third owner is to get to know your indie MB mechanic, perform recommended maintenance, and pay attention to little things that are going on with your car.

^Exactly. Part of the beauty of an S is that it's loaded with tech that by design is invisible to the user, For example, there's a thread here by a guy who got a red "DRIVE TO WORKSHOP WITHOUT CHANGING GEARS" warning, and the car threw three fault codes. One for the master steering column controller, one for the ignition and key authorization controller, and one for the electronic servo that changes gears. Three (that he knows of) systems in the steering column alone, and that level of complexity runs through the entire car.

We look at the steering column for example and to us it doesn't look substantially different than a steering column in a Toyota, so we presume it's substantially the same and therefore should be similarly reliable. Some believe because of the cost and the fact it's built by Mercedes it will actually be more reliable. That is a fallacy.

It is true that virtually any mechanical issue can be fixed if you can throw enough money at it. The danger zone is when the cost of a repair would represent a large percentage of the car's total value, or even total it. Once an S depreciates out and is in that $20k to $25k value range, it doesn't take much to go upside down.

Good points. Would be cool if Lexus got involved in those types of systems that plague certain German cars, but say goodbye to the soul.

I guess my argument to this is that there are still very few cars that out-drive a properly running w221 (or 220, or w140 for that matter).

Sure, a $7,000 repair hurts pretty bad on a $25k w221, but realistically, going to a new/barely used 222 is going to cost you another $70k. And when repaired, it will drive nearly as nicely. Yes the new cars are better, but incrementally so.

Thats where I'm at with my w220. Its worth maybe $12k (low miles) and any major repair would be worth at least 20% of its value. But realistically, I'd rather pay that than spend another $30k to get into another car I feel is a serious step up (my w220 is a fully loaded designo car, so its hard to beat).

Given the cost to upgrade (include taxes too), sometimes it makes sense to spend a fair bit to repair the older car.

A Lexus ls460 is no less complex, make no mistake, and far more reliable.
But it won't drive as well or "feel" as great, nor will it look at good. Subjective, but these are the trade offs one must make.
The reliability is reflected in the used values. You can't pick up a low mileage late model ls460 for a reason.

I totally agree. Until there is something drastically wrong with my 600. And I mean drastically - like a rod through the case, I will continue to maintain it. It's just part of my nature. I like the look of the vehicle. Until something really stirs me up to change, I'm perfectly happy.

My other Mercedes is a 1986 560SEL with 17,600 miles. Another amazing vehicle for its time (my opinion). I suspect in 20 years I will look at the 600 and still think it is an amazing vehicle for its time, gremlins and all. I enjoy driving them both.

Plus, in 20+ years, the S600 - if in good condition - will be worth a lot more than a Lexus LS460 (unless it's the first gen).

I loved my 05 500, loaded AMG Sport, Black/Java and I was prepared to pay to keep it up, in reasonable increments, but when it ate a $6000 tranny the love affair ended in a hurry. I get the other view, which is, "Could I replace what I love about the car with a newer car for what I would spend for the repair?" Typically "no". My kid brother and I own a speedboat jointly. It's an older boat with a big V8. It blew up, and we replaced the engine because the cost to replace that boat with one with similar performance was over $20k, and the engine was $5k. We got a couple more seasons out of it.

The problem, in the case of a thrown rod, for example is not only do you have a $12,000 car you've invested $20,000 in over the years...your $12,000 car/$20,000 investment is now essentially worthless with a blown engine. Your two choices are to replace the engine, spending four figures plus doubling down essentially against any other major failure, or to sell the car for scrap. Both suck.

I totally understand the mind set, but it's an emotional rather than truly practical approach and those can sometimes be very costly.

Agree reliability is reflected in the used car values. Not convinced the Lexus is actually as complex. I think Toyota is able to build and sell their car new for 2/3rds the price of an S Class is because they're very good at simulating an S Class experience, but they're not there yet and the reason I think is because of lower complexity. Also, those LS460s don't age well. The interior materials show wear and degradation quickly, and as silly as this sounds, they start to smell "cheap" inside.

I drove a nice CPO LS460 when my 500 needed to go. The ride was wallowy and it drove like an old Buick. Nothing about that car was appealing coming from an S Class that was eight years older and three times the miles.

Lexus, Acura, nah, I would rather purchase a Honda accord than buy either of those lines. Very similar ride/features, and a lot less cost.

W221
 

Hello Folks!

I just want to make a statement here.

Im a huge MB fan. I currently own a 2005 W220. Never have had issues of any kind with the car. Im also looking to upgrade to w221 in the near. I also own a 2014 Lexus GX460 and a 2009 Lexus RX350, I have also owned many vehicles from many brands, none of them are a lottery as a MB is. It may be very good or very bad.

Where I live a 2014 S550 is US$180k. No one pays that kind of many to take his car to the shop for anything. For the price your paying it should be flawless. Who cares about the tech if you cant use it?

Some of us just use the high tech failure features as an excuse for a car that should have been flawless. Not the poster boy for internet forums.

We just buy the car because we like it not because its good.

PS> I hate my RX and will sell it soon. Even though it has been flawless and has only been to the shop for service.

The guy who's buying a 2014 S for $180k should expect his ownership to be trouble free. The guy buying that 2014 used in 2018 for $60k should expect some stuff to crop up.

The problem is - it's the same car. So that doesn't work - MB needs to make them with less variance on reliability, period, regardless of final selling price.

Did you know that in Australia a C63 costs almost $200K! Yes, that's right. In USD, it's about $175K. Crazy.
Now I don't know about you, but a C63 that costs $175K US better be pretty f-ing perfect.

MB Prices
 

Check this out.

http://www.supercarros.com/Carros/Me...rMin=&yearMax=

Guys, if you buy a super-expensive Mercedes because you think that means it'll be super reliable, you're probably gonna be disappointed.

The cars aren't expensive because they're built simple and with very reliable parts...they're expensive because they're built complex with super expensive parts.

There is zero correlation between high MSRP and reliability. If anything there's an inverse relationship, where less complex cars with fewer systems, and less performance are the best bargains in terms of reliability.

Really, everything you need to know about what the used Mercedes ownership experience is like is right there in the depreciation. If you've ever wondered why you can buy a beautiful four year old S Class in perfect condition for half its original $100,000 price, feel free to stop wondering.

Its not more complicated than a Lexus LX570.

First car in the market with park assist was Lexus LS460 it has plenty of tech. It may be a boring car but it has as many goodies as an S Class.

Thats just an excuse that we use to feel better.

Range Rovers are even more expensive and are a piece of crap in reliability.

Have you ever seen a Lexus owner trying to parallel park? They can barely see over the steering wheel. That's not tech. That's a pedestrian safety feature. I don't need to rationalize the S Class against the Lexus in order to feel better about the Mercedes. I just need to drive them both back-to-back (which i have). But there's nothing wrong with the Lexus if that does it for you.

I guess the question is, if in your opinion the Lexus is every bit the car as the Mercedes, but more reliable, why are you driving a Mercedes?

I have both.

I like Mercedes better as a vehicle but its not as reliable as Lexus. And currently MB reliability is not bad, they are very good cars.

I just think that when you make this type of investment your car should not be in the shop for anything less than regular maintenance.

100% Correct.

I spent years as a manufacturing engineer in the auto industry, where I worked for several OEMs.

A Mercedes is not more complex and does not have more expensive parts than a Lexus!
The difference is that Toyota spends years training and working with their suppliers to improve reliability, and is obsessive about it.

Don't get me wrong I love my Benz. But we all know top prestige comes with top product.

Yeah, they're pretty much living the trouble free luxury car dream on the Lexus LS forum. You should post over there. Those poor a-holes could use some cheering up.

https://cimg7.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.mbw...47262e33ec.jpg

I guess Lexus isn't what it sued to be either.

But it's still more reliable than MB.

Look - I'm selling my Lexus and getting a C63 507… so what does that say?

I'd say Lexus as a luxury brand is probably a little better than average on reliability, but any luxury car with some miles on the clock is going to have issues. It makes sense to drive what you like and get an extended warranty on it.

Couldnt agree more.

Even though I dont care about the warranty that much more than the fact that I cant drive my car because its in the shop, you dont do anything with reliability if youre driving a car that you dont like.

I definitely miss mine when its in the shop. The 221 so far hasn't been in for anything other than an A and a B service. They found some other minor stuff under warranty each time, and it needed a battery and front brakes last time so it was there for a couple of days. It hasn't had anything that would make it non drivable yet. Both 220's had the usual failures, Airmatic on both, a tranny on the 06, motor mounts, transmission mounts, rear main seal, a lot of small stuff. I added it up and the 2006 S500 had $13,000 in warranty repairs in a little over two years and then another $6000 for the tranny outside of warranty (by 3k miles). The 04 S430 had around $4500 before the warranty expired and I dumped it.

So now, i REALLY care about the warranty.

+1:y

Here in DR parts and service are cheaper. A friend of mine crashed his 2005 W220 S400 CDI. He replaced the whole engine including the 2 turbos and labor for around US$6,500.

Every part was original and sent by MB from Germany

So a new S Class is almost twice as much where you live as it in the US, but a brand new twin turbo engine from Mercedes is 1/4 the price?

If my engine or transmission got cooked after my warranty expires, I would go to an trusted independent with a good reputation and get it rebuilt. That would be far cheaper than going back to a dealer. The dealers have some independent go to shops for certain repairs they do not have the time or expertise to fix quickly. I have seen engine and transmission rebuilds done in other car lines for 1/3 to 1/2 of what the dealer would charge. There are even locals or near locals that can reflash your ECU for a far cheaper price than going back to the dealer. Seems there is always a way to skin a cat if you are willing to be a bit patient.

Sounds like a either a rebuilt or a recycled engine installed, not new.

When the 7 speed in my 220 went I took it to my Indie. They recommended a reman'd with a warranty versus tearing down and rebuilding. Parts and labor was a wash, but at least with the reman there was a guarantee. It still cost me $6000, but I had a coupon for 10% off.

I have had my W203 for just over 3yrs and i have a love hate relationship with her...Now i must admit i have driven the car hard for a bit and some stuff broke on her..but i finally understand the brand...and being a member of this forum i learned to love my little benz.

That's pretty much it. They drive so beautifully when they're running well that you'll forgive them for their little transgressions. It's the price you pay (in addition to the price you actually paid) for driving a Benz.

It''s kind of like marrying a stripper. You know it's wrong and it's going to end badly, but the sex is so good you can't help yourself.

That a significant bite:eek: but you are right a reman with a warranty is a good deal. How long was the warranty coverage?

Two years, unlimited mileage

Great points here. When buying a used Benz (or any used German car for that matter), purchasing a warranty is paramount. I just purchased a 2007 S600 with only 24k miles for $37.5k. I also purchased an exclusionary service contract for 7 yr/ 75k miles with $100 deductible for only $3300 through my credit union. The way I see it, for just over $40k all in, I've got a 1 owner car that is in brand new condition, driven by a guy in his 70's who meticulously serviced the car (I have all of the records), that cost over $150k when new....and I paid a small fraction of the original price for a car that is as good as new. The warranty is cheap insurance on a car like this, and I'm expecting claims in the time I own it to far exceed the warranty cost. The warranty also adds a lot of value to the car since it's transferable if I decide to sell it in a few years. This car has soooo much more tech in it than a comparable 07 LS460 for not much more money (I used to have an LS460)....and it'll blow the doors off of almost every sedan, even 2014 models. New LS460's still don't offer as much tech as MB did in 2007.


Of course, the lower the mileage, the cheaper the coverage and longer terms available. IMO, it's always worth spending more to get a fully serviced low mileage car than an avg or above avg mileage car...especially considering how much more expensive the warranties are with more miles.

True. I've yet to lose money on a MB warranty on two of my three S Class (and the third one is well on it's way to break even). So much more pleasurable to own the car knowing you're protected. Anybody who preaches otherwise...self insured, repair fund, etc, has yet to really get hit with a 4 figure, or 5 figure mandatory repair, or has convinced themselves it won't happen to them, or both.

Yep, I am even thinking of extending my warranty with a CU warranty too, as I will have low miles comparatively when my warranty runs out in 2017 and a 7 yr/75k mile warranty is a good one at the prices I am seeing on the forum.

You'll get the best pricing and terms if your mileage is under 35k when you buy the warranty. It might even be worth buying it early and have double coverage to get the big discount and longer terms if you're approaching 35k prior to 2017.

I am actually thinking of getting an extended warranty next year. I am starting to contact a few of the sources identified in the forums and I am getting some good pricing. Depending on how the car actually behaves, I may keep it for a whole, and if so I will get an Aftermarket warranty from a CU in the future, a 7yr/75k mile (from warranty purchase date) warranty really fits my driving profile for the car.

If you are looking for extended coverage or a vehicle protection plan, look no further. Autopom is an accredited business by the BBB and has an A rating, along with an "A" rating from A.M. Best

We are not your typical vehicle protection plan provider (call center) we are a specialty agency, staffed with knowledgeable agents whom recognize the unique requirements of each of our clients.
Our mission is to make every client feel the peace of mind that comes from having the right vehicle protection plan at the right price.

If you are interested in obtaining a quote please feel free to message us with the year/make/model/mileage and your state of residency. We will be happy to send you a quote along with sample contract.

Feel free to contact us at (800) 724 8141 , or check out our website at http://www.extended-vehicle-warranty.com/

:zoom::zoom:*Some Make/Model may not apply based on state/mileage/etc.*:zoom::zoom:

I read your post questioning MB's quality from 2008. What's your opinion today? I own four and it's been nothing but rewarding all around. NO QUALITY ISSUES. I also don't let quacks do maintenance or repairs on them either, I find that's where a lot of a lot of problems stem from.

(now going back to why I'm browsing the forum: looking to see what I can find out about the durability of alternators. My 2002 ML 500 looks and runs like new, has 190k now and the alternator hasn't worn out yet and that is wonderful. I'm wondering how much longer it'll last.)
Perry

How did you find that a lot of quality issues were the result of letting "quacks" work on your car(s)?

I expect 100% quality workmanship for maintenance and repairs to my cars to quell subsequent issues stemming from poor workmanship. Before owning MBs, entrusting my first couple of cars to perceived good choice repair/maintenance shops, had resulted in damaged heater hoses because of other work performed. The heater hose would then leak. I've gotten car back with loose reassembly, or forgotten to be tighten parts, leaving bolts out, not replacing finish caps, broken finish covers, damage to the paint finish because someone used a gritty shop rag to wipe a spot. Once got an alignment done to my Toyota at the dealership. POOR at best. I asked to see the "after" spec sheet, and they finally relented, it clearly showed the settings remained out of range. Needless to say, I was refunded, took my car to another dealership, and when I got it back with proper settings, it handled and steered like it was on rails. We all have our stories.
When I do my own repairs or maintenance, I make sure and know eventhing is done right, I take the time to go over it too to make sure I didn't miss anything. If not myself I entrust my local MB dealerships and they deliver quality. Mistakes can happen there too but they stand behind EVERY thing they do and make good. What more can one ask for.

Well said sir :y

Hi guys,
I am new to MBWorld and send you all a big hello from Switzerland.
Regarding reliability, I have to say that my 2006 S500 4 matic (W220) has now clocked 288,000KM / 180,000Miles and I have had no problems with her. She's been driven in summer and winter come rain or shine (or snow). Only once was the airmatic pump worn out (at about 80,000Miles) but other than that not any issues. She was one of the last W220s made as far as the dealer could establish. The secret is to service at a MB dealer regularly. Sure, that comes at a price but I don't know of many cars that have such odometer readings which still look and drive as though they just came out of the factory. This amazes me as the W220 is not in the MB history books for being the best of the best. On top of that the 4 matic is phenomenal in snow. We have snow in considerable quantities every winter and I have always managed to get to the mountains, have left many an SUV behind in my dust and all that in supreme comfort and safety.
Have a great day.

Hello and welcome on joining MBWORLD SclassGuy. Thanks for Sharing your experiences. I have read similar reports on other forums. Everyone says the same thing - get it service regularly and your luck will tend to be a lot better. another thing that is said is, if you are buying used, only buy a car with as much of the factory warranty left on it as you can afford, then also purchase the extended warranty from MB before your factory and CPO warranty run out!:)

Window and Moonroof Opened in the Rain?!
 

I have several Mercedes and especially love the E Class. But we have a 2007 E350 that was just serviced that for no reason at all, while turned off and no key in it, lowered all 4 windows and opened the moon roof when it started to rain tonight! I've read that BMW's had this problem in the late 90's and that is was the driver door lock actuator. Has anyone heard of this or have a solution. This car is in PERFECT condition and has never given us a single problem. That this happened right after it being in service only a day ago..makes me wonder.
Thank you for your consideration and feedback. Help!

'13 S550
 

Hello, I know that your post is old, but I found it doing some research on S class reliability. I have had an '11 E class with very few issues over the course of 2.5 years I owned it. Unfortunately a red light runner hit me and totaled the car. I'm in the market and have always liked a bigger car with a V8, so I am strongly considering a S550. I have found a very well priced 35k mileage 2013 and wondered your thoughts on electrical system reliability, actually reliability in total. It seems it was at the end of the generation, but I notice the prior owner had it in the MB dealer service bay monthly for the last few months before selling it for "body electrical"... As you know carfax is fairly generic. I'm thinking there is an issue that they could never diagnose hence the need for multiple visits, but it shows a battery replacement at 10k, and then monthly electrical checks from 30k on for a few months. Just curious - I really want to buy the car (it's certified and I will extend to the max) but don't want a car that is in the shop more than in my driveway. Plus, if I love it and want to keep it after warranty expiration I don't want to be stuck with a major repair at some point. No one has a crystal ball and if it did have problems I would have years of warranty coverage to fix it and decide to trade it.. I'm trying to let my head make this decision rather than my heart which sees such a beautiful car, tech marvel and knows MB build quality is usually exceptionally solid.

I've had three, a 2004 S430, 2006 S500 and a 2010 S550. They're not disasters at all from a reliability standpoint. It's just that when something goes it's usually pretty expensive, shockingly so if you're not used to owning a high end German luxury car.

I wouldn't hesitate to grab a clean low mileage CPO 2013, take the warranty out the full three years and plan on unloading it after that. They are an addiction though. Very few cars drive like an S or pamper their occupants like an S. It'll spoil you for an E or pretty much anything else for that matter.

If you're having trouble rationalizing such an exorbitant purchase, bear in mind the 221 is among the safest cars on the planet. So really you're doing your family a disservice by not buying one.

I did not ask for any electronic, sensors, anything about the car. Did you asked for it? It is just offered to me. I gave up from S500 last year because of reliability.

You asked Mercedes about it but you did not ask Lexus? Strange.

Mercedes Benz cars are pretty reliable for the first owners... and that's all Mercedes cares about. After the car is out of warranty, it magically starts to break down and require lots of time and money at the shop. This is how they profit:

1) First owner goes and buys / leases a brand new Mercedes (Mercedes makes all their money right here)
2) The car is driven until it's out of warranty and once it is, Mercedes convinces the owner that the car is old and the new styling is out, blah blah and typically Mercedes owners buy into this and just get the newest model.
3) The second owner acquires the car and now that Mercedes can't make much money off of that purchase, they will get that money back through repairs and service that are needed due to lack of quality on that car (why else are 2010 CL65 AMG going for like 50k now?!).

Those second, third, etc. owners are usually us here on the forums and we go and rant about all of this stuff. It's funny because when you mention this stuff to one of the sales people at the dealership, they will say "well of course, it's an old car now!"... and then you're thinking, well, if it's really "the best or nothing", it shouldn't have any issues 4 years after it originally sells with only 60k miles.

Mercedes makes no money after the first sale. Dealers are independent franchisees. Mercedes corporate's customer is the guy who can afford to buy or lease a $100,000 car. That's the only guy MB corporate has to keep happy. Everything else is the franchisees problem.

But they will charge dealers $2k to certify a pre owned car and then they're on the hook for minimally a year of extra warranty (or up to 3 years for an extra $4500 from the buyer), and on an S Class, boy do they pay out.

Granted they're providing the parts at cost and the dealer's service department agrees to a lower "warranty" labor rate, but they pay on a CPO S Class. My 06 S500 had $21,000 in covered warranty repairs. My 10 S550's last service ticket alone was over $6,000 and they'd paid $4k out up to that point.

But yeah, if you want to pony up $100,000 for a fresh S Class, MB will make sure you're taken care of. You want to scoop one up used somewhere for half that amount, you're on your own. Honestly, the cost of maintaining and repairing a used S is the reason why they depreciate so rapidly. It's not the number of repair incidents that's unusually high as much as the costs associated with the repairs that's a shock to most people.

CPO or 3rd party warranty for the duration of ownership. If that's out of reach financially, you're probably not ready for an S.

If you think MB does not build good, reliable cars, you should see the carnage over on the BMW & Audi boards. Or better yet, the Cadillac Northstar boards. Read some of the posts over there and you'll feel a lot better about your Benz.

Mike - was def looking for that rationalization of why it was cool to buy the S class - so I will go with doing my family a favor for a safe vehicle :)


I'm looking at a '13 s550 tomorrow, 30k miles, clean carfax, reasonable price, although I found one with similar mileage for $3k cheaper so I'm going to negotiate a little. All things being equal - Mercedes dealer, similar miles and in service date, only $5k variance on original MSRP so I think it's worth challenging the $3k. I'm going to max out the warranty which will cover me for 3.5years and unlimited miles - I will trade it after that expires ... To me, who drives 25-30k annually that's better than a new car warranty.
** I'm going to pay out of pocket for the warranty - and was wondering if $4695 sounds right to extend the CPO two years ... **

It sounds reasonable and from what I've read sounds right. ***Wanted to get some thoughts and also wondered if MB will negotiate on that at all based on others experience. ***

I'm a little nervous that I don't see brakes and rotors replaced on the carfax, nor do I see tires... In my experience all of that would have needed replacement - summer performance tires usually are gone between 20-25k, and with such a heavy car I would imagine brake pads would be exhausted and rotors warped. **Anyone have an opinion on that?*** There is the certification entry and a few generic "recommended maintenance performed" which lead me to believe maybe that occurred or the tires could have been installed elsewhere. I will ask for the MB service history from their records and of course eye ball the tires and ask for the X/32s off the certification report for brakes and tires, but just wanted some opinions. I feel really comfortable being backed 3.5 years unlimited miles and I'm used to paying maintenance costs for my E class, which i imagine will be comparable, with a bit of a premium for the larger engine, larger brake rotors, etc. But I'm anticipating similar maintenance costs. ***That's my last question - does anyone have an opinion on whether the S class maintenance line items are comparable to an E class? ***

Sorry for all the questions, feel free to ignore and move on, but if anyone is feeling particular helpful to weigh in, your thoughts would be appreciated!

PS - I had a lot less problems with my E class than the three Cadillacs I had before. And I did have a Lexus ES with a shot AC compressor under 50k, so I think it's the luck of the draw - take care with maintenance and you're pretty likely do have a reliable vehicle. Sometimes it's just the nature of the beast that it will mechanically fail - it is a machine after all. Because of my prior experience with Mercedes I'm not overly concerned about another one like many can be apprehensive about German / euro vehicles. I agree with the statement about repairs - it is costly if you haven't seen the bills before - I figure that's addressed by the warranty as long as I'm prepared to pay out the maintenance. As I think I've mentioned before I have a local MB master tech who has an independent shop and does a great job with a $65ish labor rate and doesn't excessively mark up tires and parts ... That works for me rather than what the dealer would steal from me, which may make me think twice. Final note, it used to cost me $1,700 all around for brakes and rotors on a Cadillac and that car ATE brakes and rotors every 10-15k, plus if you tried to put non GM rotors on it lasted half the time - whereas I've found MB parts more solid. My friends think I'm crazy when I say everything on MB is more solid down to the quality of the gas cap - but it's true. The first time I pumped gas it stood out to me how even that detail was well engineered.

Thanks in advance everyone for any thoughts on my S class inquiries!

Don't know why you say Mercedes doesn't make money after the first sale. I reckon they make a fortune on parts post warranty.

Yeah, of course. I meant they make nothing on subsequent re sales of their cars. Although I'm not sure how lucrative the parts business is. Car manufacturers are more like car assemblers at this point, with pretty much every part that's not the unibody shell being sourced independently from all over the place.

You'll enjoy the S550 immensely, and from the sound of your annual mileage, often. Brakes on the car at the dealer usually involve pads and rotors. The rotors are intentionally soft and the pad doesn't actually come in contact with the first quarter inch of it so as they wear they leave this little beveled edge. Can't be turned like a normal rotor.

About $600 an axle including a flush and bleed. Not a biggie relatively speaking. With CPO I think I spent around $1k at each service visit for extra stuff, usually scheduled maintenance things that hit with more frequency as the miles pile up. A brake job here...tranny service there... Spark plugs, oil & lube, alignments and of course tires. 20" staggered Michelin Pilot Super Sports got about 10k out of the rears and 15k out of the fronts.

But I loved the car so much, and that was true of all my S Classes, that I actually enjoyed spending the money to keep them in top shape, if that makes sense. What else was I going to spend it on, besides food and shelter and the kids college?

Before locking down the 13, ask the dealer to pull the internal service history and go thru it with the service manager to verify everything that should have been done was done. S Class owners, especially first or second owners, are typically meticulous about maintenance but you do get the rich a-hole who bought one for his loser 30 year old kid who just beat the hell out of it.

One thing about an S... They clean up well. Abuse may not be obvious. Look at the stainless steel sill plates. If they're all gouged to hell at 30k miles it may have had some hard use. And verify the two 13's are apples to apples on equipment. There are a lot of ways to option an S, including multiple grades of leather that may not be obvious.

And no, there's no comparison between a Caddy and a Benz. Caddy is jack off. But a Benz is p***y.

Ah the Northstar. Owned two of those piles of crap at the same time. And yep, you guessed it...head bolts.

Also got real good at replacing window regulators on those. One car had all 4 fail.

I purchased a 12 S550 4Matic last year for around 44K, paid another 3400 for the MB extended warranty that took me up to 7 years or 75K miles. Spent another 1200 on Michelin AS3 tires and 250 bucks on new rotors and pads, installed em myself, very simple. Also spent another 180 bucks on an oil change and service. Dealers are glad to sell you crap post sale for a huge margin and some go that way. I found a good indie that has been fair with me. I will probably sell mine in another 3 years and buy a used W222 or maybe an SL. They are great cars but they drop in value very fast.

Yes...head bolts! My 21 year old son has a '97 Deville and those had failed at only 65k miles. Fortunately I found a place that was able to pull the engine, drill in new bolts that are supposed to be guaranteed not to fail (much bigger threads), and replaced all gaskets including the oil pan for only $2k. This also included spark plugs, wires, and seals. This guy has done several hundred of the Northstar rebuilds in the last few years. And they sure like to burn oil.

Yeah, that's about the going rate and fair. Was this a garage around Chicago by chance? Bet I know which one it was if it looked like a hole in the wall type place. I was half tempted to drive it up there.

After burning through 4 window regulators (dealer charges around $500 for this job per door, but Dorman stamps them out for 40 bucks a piece), 100K miles on it, rims going to heck and could hardly hold air and other stuff I'm conveniently forgetting I wanted that thing out of my sight.

Yep, they are in Palatine. Business card says Midwest Cadillac Repair, but I think the shop is called something different. It does look like a hole in the wall, but they know what they are doing. I've dropped my son's car off at the owner Joe's house a couple of times, then he drives it into the shop, does repairs/maintenance, then I pick it up again at his house. Beats the hell out of driving into Palatine when the owner only lives about 20 minutes away from me. He always has about 4-5 Caddy's in his driveway for customers who are having repairs done.

Thanks for the answers and feedback - bought it!
 

Bought a 2013 S550 with distronic and sport plus one package. Extended warranty until 12/2019, $107k new and spent less than half of that. Better than a new car warranty. Beautiful car - very minor paint chips on the hood - like 3 of them. The only other issue is scratches on the stainless scuff plate driver door, otherwise leather glass and paint all exceptional. Good service history ... 9/32 brake life left, decent tires - Dunlop so I will replace with Michelin after 10-15k when these wear out.

Couple of questions if anyone has inclination or time to answer:

- no Bluetooth music stream - found that crazy for $100k car. My e class had it without an adapter. I see options for Bluetooth media interface cable, or direct connect to media interface (would need lighting cable for iPhone 6).. Does this sound right? The MB Bluetooth media cable adapter is $300??

- accelerator feel - the car takes off but I feel like you have to really push hard on the pedal to get it to move even a little? Lot different than e class. Assume it is just an adjustment I have to get used to?

- steering feels very heavy at low turning speeds? Again think it's just getting used to it, 4800 pounds and all.


Thanks in advance!

Welcome to the forum. Sadly you've arrived at a time where all of us our alcoholic a-holes and prone to tangential rants. Mostly Dave.

Anyway, pick up an $89 Tune2Air 1000 Bluetooth audio adapter on Amazon. It plugs into the IPod cable and Multi Media Interface. Your car just needs the right cable, which terminates in a 30 pin male. You'll get full connectivity and control.

I just grabbed an old iPod 16GB that I had sitting around and loaded my playlists onto that. 16GB of music is a lot of music, then just plugged it into the cable in my glove-box. No adapters needed as it is an older iPod. I tried the tune to air and it was flaky. Mercedes seems to be woefully behind even ford with the sync system when it comes to smartphone integration, at least with the S.

Yeah, if your whole library is local that works fine. If you typically listen to streaming sources like Pandora, Apple Music etc obviously you'd need your source to have Internet access.

I had zero issues with the T2A in my 2010.

You could probably have the steering feel and accelerator feel adjusted with by a knowledgable person with the right equipment.

Why did you spend so much on Michelin AS3s? I paid $540 with install and removal included for mine at Costco on their monthly sale.

19" tires are dramatically more than the 18" stockers. And mine are staggered so the price for the rears is more.

Aha! Mine are the 17" stockers.

I bought a '11 CL550 with 48K miles in TX. The carfax was clean except the transmission and transfer case was replaced. oddly enough, the car was previously owned local to me (but now in tx) I called the dealer and had them look up the vehicle. Customer complaint was "clunking noise" at low speeds. Whatever it was, it required a new transmission and tc. oh and it had another service for replacing valve cover gasket or something to that effect.

I went to check out the car and test drove it. Everything was fine and the car drove great. I paid 38K for the car and bought it. The dealer gave me a 3 mo & 3K warranty on it. I didn't get extended warranty of anything. I also had it inspected by a local euro car mechanic and paid him 200 dollars. he rated the car a 8/10 and didn't see anything of concern.

Drove the car with the family and went on a road trip. on the 6th day we had about 2600 miles on the car... While wife was driving, the battery light came on, ac stopped blowing cold air and vehicle over heated (water pump stopped) I thought the alternator went bad or something. I had the car towed to a ase/bosch mechanic and rented a car to finish our roadtrip.

I called the mechanic the next day and told him what had happened. He told me he'll take a look at the car and let me know what's wrong with it. I then called the dealer and told them what happened. They told me not to worry and just have the mechanic bill them or I can be reimbursed....

Then I got the bad news. The bolt on the harmonic balancer losened causing the belt to stop spinning. The front mail seal had sheared and there was visible damage to the crankshaft. engine was toast. Here is the shop's notes.

My world shattered and I called the dealer back... Thank god they didn't give me a hard time and they were very good about it. They had the car towed back and refunded me my money.

I went looking again with few lessons learned and got a 2011 with 9500 miles this time (clean carfax, no issues on service history, 1 owner from NY, regular maintenance on the year). Paid little more but I'm happy. I also got the USAA extended warranty with no deductible. It adds to my monthly payments, but I will have to pay to play it seems if I want this car. I'm hopeful I'll have good experience (especially now that I have warranty for few years) but we will see what happens. People have always told me benz is crap and they are one of the least reliable cars. I just nodded them off until this freak event happened to me.

What was interesting is that all the 2011s that I looked at ($40-50k range) had some type of service history on carfax due to mechanical issues (wiring harness replaced, oil/fluid leak repair, transmission replaced, suspension repaired etc) It was very hard to find one trouble free like the one I got. It only has 9500 miles though and I noticed these problems started happening around 25-35K miles.

They don't make them like they used to...

On the other hand, the 7th generation corvettes have been having some reliability issues and I've been lucky (granted I barely drive that thing and it has 4000 miles in 1.5 year) Alot of this is just luck I think

The problem is they do still make them like they used to, complex as hell and expensive as **** to repair. My first Benz was a lovely 1989 190E 2.6. We loved it. Why, we wondered, doesn't everyone drive one of these?

Then we found out. It needed a distributor cap. That's a $30 part in a normal car. $400. Then it needed a pair of front struts. Maybe $300 normally. $1200.

Then I traded it for a Subaru. Ten years later I jumped back in with a CPO S Class. Which I foolishly kept after the warranty ended and was delighted when the transmission imploded two months later costing $6000 for a reman. Had a coupon so only $5400! That was after doing an extra tranny service and having all codes cleared before the CPO ran out.

You did your current deal right. Just remember to cut it loose before the service contract expires.

I have owned 3 MB's; A 2000 S500 which I drove 330,000 miles with very few issues and the car never used any oil.

Love MB'S S class
 

I have owned 3 MB's; A 2000 S500 which I drove 330,000 miles with very few issues and the car never used any oil. Next I bought a used 2004 S600 and it was a shop queen, mostly suspension issues. and finally a 2012 S550 that I have 130,000 and am extremely satisfied with this car in every aspect. Not to mention, I also get between 25 and 28 mpg. with this car. Keep them serviced and they will run like a train.

25 to 28mpg? On a gas motor?
Best I ever saw was 23-24mpg. But, I drive very fast.