Is the W221 back to the over engineered MB:s?
06-13-2008, 01:34 AM
#26
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2013 650i Coupe, 2010 IS250 AWD, 1999 S500
Just for your information I have a Nautik blue 560 SEC with full grey leather in mint condition 
but I want to start to dream about a modern SEC which I find in the new CL and the new dream then is the CL 65 AMG with an ethanol conversion (I live in Sweden)
Where can you find production figures of the different S-classes?
but I want to start to dream about a modern SEC which I find in the new CL and the new dream then is the CL 65 AMG with an ethanol conversion (I live in Sweden)Where can you find production figures of the different S-classes?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mercedes-Benz_S-Class
M
06-13-2008, 01:56 AM
#27
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560 SEC
Ikirchner:
I owned a 1991 560SEL for 13 years before I sold it to a friend. I recently bought a 2008 Designo S550 for my wife and the first thing that came to my mind was "Here is the replacement for the SEL".
Exactly what I meant, nice that somrbody sheer my view
But please, doesnīt anybody know about "Lex pre-safe"?
I owned a 1991 560SEL for 13 years before I sold it to a friend. I recently bought a 2008 Designo S550 for my wife and the first thing that came to my mind was "Here is the replacement for the SEL".
Exactly what I meant, nice that somrbody sheer my view
But please, doesnīt anybody know about "Lex pre-safe"?
06-13-2008, 08:56 AM
#28
2 letters....errr..... 2 words:
VW
Quite possibly the worst, most overrated car company in the world.
I can't stand the site of anything VW - detest everything about their dealerships. One word describes their operation:
SLEAZE.
In case you are wondering why, here's a little snippet about experiences at a the same VW dealership (Charles Maund) I went to a few months ago. My writeup is by "Mario" under the "Charles Maund VW" section.
As far as Audi, it's their past issues (which were numerous BTW) and grossly underpowered engines that steer me away.
VW
Quite possibly the worst, most overrated car company in the world.
I can't stand the site of anything VW - detest everything about their dealerships. One word describes their operation:
SLEAZE.
In case you are wondering why, here's a little snippet about experiences at a the same VW dealership (Charles Maund) I went to a few months ago. My writeup is by "Mario" under the "Charles Maund VW" section.
As far as Audi, it's their past issues (which were numerous BTW) and grossly underpowered engines that steer me away.
06-13-2008, 09:21 AM
#29
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2007 E63
Ikirchner:
I owned a 1991 560SEL for 13 years before I sold it to a friend. I recently bought a 2008 Designo S550 for my wife and the first thing that came to my mind was "Here is the replacement for the SEL".
Exactly what I meant, nice that somrbody sheer my view
But please, doesnīt anybody know about "Lex pre-safe"?
I owned a 1991 560SEL for 13 years before I sold it to a friend. I recently bought a 2008 Designo S550 for my wife and the first thing that came to my mind was "Here is the replacement for the SEL".
Exactly what I meant, nice that somrbody sheer my view
But please, doesnīt anybody know about "Lex pre-safe"?
Pre-Collision System on the right.
06-13-2008, 11:29 AM
#30
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'09 S63 AMG
Nonsense. A S-Class stops, steers and handles better than a Lexus LS. Nothing is more "secure" than that. A S550 with the ABC will trounce any version of the LS in the handling department and it doesn't kill the ride either.
A Lexus LS is for people who graduated from an old-school Cadillac or modern Buick. A Lexus LS simply doesn't drive as well for a driver (not a commuter) as the German cars do.
M
A Lexus LS is for people who graduated from an old-school Cadillac or modern Buick. A Lexus LS simply doesn't drive as well for a driver (not a commuter) as the German cars do.
M
So, have you driven an 07/08 LS? If you haven't then go do it and come back and tell us.
I own an S550 - just bought it 2 months ago. It's an AWESOME car, but so is the LS. The S looks WAAAAAY BETTER than the LS - no comparision, but please don't tell me that the S without ABC handles better than the LS - IMO it does not. I've driven both - infact I was torn betw, the 2 mainly because of the $$$ difference (about $20K or so)
JMO.
Last edited by AustinGuy; 06-13-2008 at 01:13 PM.
06-13-2008, 11:41 AM
#31
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'08 M5, '10 Land Cruiser
I guess, the key is ABC....
So, have you driven an 07/08 LS? Don't simply say yes. If you haven't then go do it and come back and tell us.
Look, I OWN and S550 - just bought it 2 months ago. It's an AWESOME car, but so is the LS. The S looks WAAAAAY BETTER thant he LS - no comparision, but PUULLLLEASE! Don't tell me that the S handles better than the LS - withouth ABC, it does NOT.
JMO.
So, have you driven an 07/08 LS? Don't simply say yes. If you haven't then go do it and come back and tell us.
Look, I OWN and S550 - just bought it 2 months ago. It's an AWESOME car, but so is the LS. The S looks WAAAAAY BETTER thant he LS - no comparision, but PUULLLLEASE! Don't tell me that the S handles better than the LS - withouth ABC, it does NOT.
JMO.
06-13-2008, 08:01 PM
#32
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2013 650i Coupe, 2010 IS250 AWD, 1999 S500
I guess, the key is ABC....
So, have you driven an 07/08 LS? If you haven't then go do it and come back and tell us.
I own an S550 - just bought it 2 months ago. It's an AWESOME car, but so is the LS. The S looks WAAAAAY BETTER than the LS - no comparision, but please don't tell me that the S without ABC handles better than the LS - IMO it does not. I've driven both - infact I was torn betw, the 2 mainly because of the $$$ difference (about $20K or so)
JMO.
So, have you driven an 07/08 LS? If you haven't then go do it and come back and tell us.
I own an S550 - just bought it 2 months ago. It's an AWESOME car, but so is the LS. The S looks WAAAAAY BETTER than the LS - no comparision, but please don't tell me that the S without ABC handles better than the LS - IMO it does not. I've driven both - infact I was torn betw, the 2 mainly because of the $$$ difference (about $20K or so)
JMO.
Uh..Yeah I've driven the LS460L, that much was in my last post.
A S550 with Airmatic handles better than a LS460L. German cars have a more solid planted feel on the road, better steering, better body control, the ride is more level without feeling mushy. True it isn't a night and day difference between a LS and a S with just Airmatic, but the difference is there. And yes I've driven the cars back to back and not just around the corner at the dealers either.
The LS is a great car, but the S-Class is a better one. The LS appeals to those who want luxury by the numbers. If you want more speakers and what not, but no clear advantage on the road then by all means the LS is the car for you. Never before has the Lexus LS had its **** handed to it in every comparision test. The old LS430 used to whallop the S430, but this time around the S550 has stomped a mutt-hole in the LS. The S-Class isn't just the S550, the entire range kills the LS, even the useless LS600hL. Now talk about a waste.
M
Last edited by Germancar1; 06-13-2008 at 08:05 PM.
06-13-2008, 10:30 PM
#33
Someone has a 1990 560 SEL for sale on Ebay with only 60k+ miles on it in Pennsylvania for around $15K miles. I may look into this. Looks very clean. What a classic car.
06-18-2008, 07:12 AM
#34
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Based upon my test-drives of Lexus, have always viewed them as fairly unsafe cars, even at <65MPH...no matter what safety systems they claim to have....
I tend to value active safety much more than do most consumers....so I try to assess steering precision/chassis precision&stability/brake pedal feel&response/fast&smart stability ctrls, esp to predict how all these systems may work together within the secs in which one needs to instantaneously react to an emergent situation on a poss busy, bumpy, wet urban fwy w/70+MPH traffic flow....
Have never been impressed (based upon both common sense analysis and test-drives) by Lexus safety strucs/systems/engineering/dynamics....(aside from S/CL, only other car I view as reasonably safe is 997TT Coupe)....
Have also heard that there may be an economic (tariff-related) reason why Japanese steel used in their cars is weaker strength than MB-spec steel...
And hard to over-estimate the value of MB's decades of engineering expce and testing of cars on derestricted AB, where active safety is arguably even more relevant than passive safety....and a massive pool of real-world, high-speed crash data from which to advance and iterate the safety engineering of one's cars, esp if one already has a team of safety engineers w/a demonstrated ability to innovate safety systems that other high-end mfrs try to emulate a few yrs later (if at all)....
I tend to value active safety much more than do most consumers....so I try to assess steering precision/chassis precision&stability/brake pedal feel&response/fast&smart stability ctrls, esp to predict how all these systems may work together within the secs in which one needs to instantaneously react to an emergent situation on a poss busy, bumpy, wet urban fwy w/70+MPH traffic flow....
Have never been impressed (based upon both common sense analysis and test-drives) by Lexus safety strucs/systems/engineering/dynamics....(aside from S/CL, only other car I view as reasonably safe is 997TT Coupe)....
Have also heard that there may be an economic (tariff-related) reason why Japanese steel used in their cars is weaker strength than MB-spec steel...
And hard to over-estimate the value of MB's decades of engineering expce and testing of cars on derestricted AB, where active safety is arguably even more relevant than passive safety....and a massive pool of real-world, high-speed crash data from which to advance and iterate the safety engineering of one's cars, esp if one already has a team of safety engineers w/a demonstrated ability to innovate safety systems that other high-end mfrs try to emulate a few yrs later (if at all)....
Based on your Misinformation and Bias makes me want to disregard all of the good things said about MB, I have been hanging around this forum to get informed and information on possibly a upcoming second car but being so wrong about the LS makes me think you guys are out to lunch..
