mklasse

Well some of you might have seen this already around the internet. I just thought I post it here.. the next BMW that supposedly a W221 S-class killer.

http://www.worldcarfans.com/9080703....-series-leaked

What do you guys think?

MB Fanatic

1. Decent interior (nothing too drastic from current 7 Series)
2. FUGLY rear end
3. Good front end (nice evolution of the current one)
4. No way in hell will I buy one.

gellie

Outstanding! Much sportier than the s550. BMW has a real winner here. Love the interior. Love that they moved the stalk were its suppose to be. I'm sure MB will move there's as well.

dadesidon

The 7 series has almost always gotten a bad reaction when it was announced (i.e. current car and it's Bangle butt), but after a while people warm up to them and understand them for the great cars they are. I think that this new design looks very bloated (especially in the back) similar to a Toyota Avalon (http://z.about.com/d/cars/1/7/9/Y/lk...n_rearview.jpg). The technology is almost always going to be great in their flagship auto - for example in this new car the night vision can identify people, and navi has some form of 3D display to show buildings.

Basically - the jury is out on this car until I see it on the streets.

WSH

At least BMW is consistent in developing POS cars for the aspirational crowd, prob priced ?$10-15K below S550; incls free mtce; and prob cheaper, mfr-subsidized 2yr leases than MB.....

Amusing to see the archaic Parktronic bulletholes on a car that will launch in ?early '09.....S-Class has had DistPlus (w/o such archaic bulletholes) since early '06....

BMW's inept engineers still struggle w/basics like innovative, class-leading safety engineering; precise steering/brakes; fast/smooth gearboxes; effortless, linear tq deliv; competent HVAC, etc etc.....there's no surprise why BMW hardly sells any $100K+ cars....let alone sells any $150K+ perf limos like S63/65....

BMW should emulate VW-Bent's marketing techniques for greater business success....perhaps BMW should use their RR brand to sell mass-vol $200K cars to wannabe rappers in OC/FL/various 3rdWorld mkts....

Kudos to VW-Bent's marketers for cleverly selling 10K/yr of those $200K commuter cars, despite their crappy tech and tacky aesthetics.....

trumpet1

I actually like it. MUCH better than the current 7 series. I too like the trend of going back with center console mounted gear shifter. I hope MB does this. I've never gotten used to the steering column mounted shifter.
This new 7 series will get BMW back on track but I still like and desire the current S class over this new BMW. But I'll have to hand it to them, they made a significant improvement on styling with this one.

451/443=EW

-like the controls in center arem rest for the rear pass.
-DVD's behind front seats.
-not sure yet, but I think I kinda like the back.

-Dont like the fact your new 7 looks like a 5
-interior is still not on par with Benz.
-Wow they put 2 position memory and heated seats in the back, Benz has 10 power adjustable heated and cooled 3 position memory seat package for
the back.
-whats with the gapping mouth ( front skirt )
-single exhust pipe
-over all boring.

dieseldoc

Iwould rather have an s class. This new 7series looks like the new Hyundai.

Untertürkheim

+1

Also, looking at the front of that 7, could not help thinking of those old "politically incorrect" cartoons of bucktooth chinese men in rice-farming outfits.

WSH

Political "correctness" is highly over-rated and the stuff of politicians/media-types/overeducated chicks, etc...

Perhaps BMW hopes to sell a fair no. of these POS 7's in 3rdWorld mkts, which tend to have "different" tastes (or lack thereof)....

Interestingly, my understanding is that BMW currently struggles to sell anything more costly than 3-Series even in 3rdWorld....after all, 3rdWorld is far more brand-conscious/insecure than anywhere else....

However, BMW 3's do have an avid following among the semi-intelligent, semi-affluent, overeducated crowd in mockable places like SF and other ctrs of urban elitists....sadly, the profit margins on deep-discted, cheaply leased 3's in US are fairly thin....

LETO

It doesn't evoke any sort of emotional response. My response, ok well done, better than the last car. Didn't want the last seven and this one wont win me over either.

The car dosent scream luxury and if it is going for the sterile look, the A8 has it beat in that dept.

I am certain it drives well. But what good is that when it has such a bland appeal in the looks dept.

For once I agree with WSH on this one (kinda surprised actually )

trumpet1

Mercedes is definitely safe.

WSH

LOL, LETO.....now I'm really worried; I prefer when most disagree w/my typically curmudgeonly, unconventional views....that's part of why I enjoy this forum...lots of well-informed guys w/divergent views....

boylston

It looks like a Lexus to me. The tail lights remind me of ES350.

Merc-Skycap

eeehhh its not too bad! I don't think I will buy one because it doesn't look much different than the one now and I really don't like the current one. The interior is nice but S550 still takes first place in my opinion! The only BMW I like right now is the 5 series. The rest are German copies of Japanese cars lol.

I am sorry BMW you are going to have to do better!


Merc-Skycap

S-Clusiv

fq1

Agree with most here that this new 7's design is extremely underwhelming, even though most Bangle-designed vehicles have had a tendency to grow on me (including some of his original Fiats) over time but I am not sure about this one.

The place where I completely disagree with both WSH and Leto is the brand snobbery and the arrogant generalizations of superiority of a brand/manufacturer and nation/region/class of people over another. This coming from someone who has owned several vehicles of the "premium German" brands, from their "lowest" range offerings to their top-of-the-line vehicles.

Debunking brand/technology superiority myth: There was a time, primarily until the late 1980s when most MB vehicles were better than most equivalent BMWs (except maybe the M3 being better than the 190E 2.3-16). But due to the sheer arrogance of MB executives (I have personal experience of the dealings of one with my dad who did get "demoted" after the episode) and other fumbles they let BMW catch up until the E36 was clearly superior to the W201 and the W202. However, the real superiority came with the E39 5-series that was by far a revelation compared to the W210. Then by the mid to late 1990s, MB had also started losing its impregnable build quality and indestructability reputation (which was not just a myth but a reality: we had a W124 in the family with close to 200k miles on it and when being sold the buyer had his mechanic check it who claimed "it still ticked like a Rolex"). After all that, I do not think the 7-series has ever been able to surpass the S in overall abilities, it probably came close with the E65 over W220 in my opinion but not quite.

3rd World Myth Debunking: The "prestige" vehicle of choice in ALL of third world, including the nouveau riche oil producing countries is by far an MB, and not a BMW, and not and Audi. Every thug, every drug baron, every self-proclaimed ruler/sheikh, every dictator, every incompetent general of every roguish 3rd world army is driven in an MB -- and more likely a bullet-proof MB S-class for himself and a convoy of lower MBs by his security. The few of their citizenry, primarily cronies of the rulers, the first vehicle they purchase after making it big is an MB. I have lived in some of these places and regularly visit them for business and know what people there aspire to in terms of vehicles. Does that mean no BMWs or Audis are sold there? That is not what it means. It just means that those brands are not primarily bought for the "prestige" value by the newly rich, but a lot of the times they buy them after they have proved to their acquantances "that they have arrived" through their MB purchases and other indulgences. There is a lot more to it but that's for a different time.

As far as BMW only being able to sell inexpensive vehicles is concerned, you forget that each E60 5-series has a higher MSRP than its equivalent W211. And the E60 has outsold the W211 each of the past 3 years. The same is now true of the E90 vs the W204, the X5 vs ML and the X3 vs the GLK. The only place where MBs are higher priced are in the S/CLS class and niches where BMW don't currently have vehicles. Now you can make the argument that it's the S-class that's the real premium MB and that's the only one that counts in doing a premium analysis, I would say that the S-class and most likely Daimler as a company would not exist if those other lines are not there.

Another argument you can make is that those are just MSRPs and that the true yield prices are lower for BMWs vs MBs because of BMW's subvented leases. However, that argument is debunked by the fact that BMW's operating margins as well as net margins have been higher than MB's (without Chrysler) over the last 5 years. Numbers don't lie. In fact, after Porsche, BMW until recently had the second highest margins in the industry, but I think was overtaken by Renault/Nissan last year.

What you need to realize is that at the end of the day each of these brands is just a corporation that is just run by real human beings. Nothing that they do is pre-ordained or has decended from the heavens that states "MB thou shalt always be superior to Bentley, BMW, Audi, etc". There are no constants with the human beings working at, designing and building vehicles at these corporations; they move jobs and take their skills/experties to their new company which sometimes will hit a bulls eye and sometimes will not.

To make the kind of broad generalizations about the brands and making innuendos about the types of people/geographies associated with them betrays certain insecurities, complexes, (lack of) intelligence, education level and an inability to think or perform analysis. Dare I say betrays a trailer-trash mentality -- exactly the kind of people that you do not think buy MBs.

Suprfknman

The S does have better styling but just wait till some tuner makes a software upgrade for the twin turbo V8 just look at whats been done with the 335 that thing is gonna be a rocket
Will

Untertürkheim

I have to agree with nearly everything you are saying here, although my perspective is slightly different having attended USC and living in LA...

The 3er is usually presented to female freshmen along with their dorm supplies, in fact I would argue that it may be the single most common car at that school. The other half of the 3 drivers are asians and middle eastern men, usually with fake M body kits.

The BMW name has been so "defined" on campus that the quintessential 3 driver has moved on to to the Audi A/S4 or something else.