vonbeeler

Went to the Range Rover dealer yesterday in Southern CA. Looking for new RR for the wife possibly. Just out of curiosity I had them figure my S class as the trade to see what they would come up with. After a pretty thorough review of the car and calling other dealer buyers they came back to me with $75k. I've got a factory AMG body package (yes factory), needs tires, has
22k miles, a few stone chips, color is blk/blk. So if $75k is real wholesale then I assumme $85k retailish. Thats pretty heavy but I know the more expensive the faster they fall. I little disapointing but considering economy I guess thats about right. In any event I'm not selling anyway so doesn't really matter. If I hadn't lost about $200k on my house in the last 12mos I probably wouldn't care about the car as much. Thankfuly I'm not selling that either so its only on paper. Looking forward to a more normal housing market just for the mental positives as I enjoy spending. Considering trading the Vette for SL55 or 65. The MB dealer just listed an 05 SL65 with 500mi for 99k. By the time I drove down there it was sold. I guess the good news is if your a buyer right now there are great deals. If your a seller.. don't be.

vonbeeler

Too much time on my hands today.
Right now there are 11 2007 S600's on Ebay.
The average Buy it now/ best offer asking price is $94,000
The average mileage is 14,700

The numbers are being skewed high from dreamers asking $100+k for cars with 25k miles. There are a couple realistic auctions with reasonable mileage at $85k or best. I think $85 is full retail.

On that note I will be willing to sell my car for $92k

itswindee

For what it's worth, here is the list for recent auction prices from Manheim.

07/23/08 ATLANTA Lease $93,000 18,585 Above MCH BLK 12G A
07/23/08 ATLANTA Lease $77,000 18,686 Avg WHITE 12G A
07/17/08 RIVRSIDE Lease $84,750 16,306 Avg PEWTER 12G A
07/17/08 RIVRSIDE Lease $74,500 27,369 Below AND GRY 12G A
07/15/08 FAAO Regular $82,500 25,291 Avg SILVER 12G A
07/09/08 SEATTLE Lease $86,750 13,042 Avg BLACK 12G A
07/02/08 W PALM Lease $92,000 9,580 Above GRAPH 12G A
Copyright © 1996-2008 Manheim Auctions

vonbeeler

Are these price RESULTS?
I assume thats the mileage listed after price, followed by condition?
Prices seem a little high compared to what dealer was offering.

vonbeeler

Also seems odd there is a $20,000 price disparity between low and high auction price. I would think spread would be less.

trumpet1

Vonbeeler,
You're numbers are more realistic as I got the exact same figure 2 months ago (actually I got $77K but that was two months ago). The numbers that the other poster gave would almost seem like 2008 models wholesale figures to me.
I also feel I could get around $87K for mine on Ebay considering I have the Renntech, the 08 upgrade and the VIM module. I don't plan on selling but we are considering an upgrade in house which may cause me to sell

itswindee

Yes those are recent sale results. In order:
date, location of auction, lease or owned, sale price, mileage, condition of car, color and type of engine & transmission.

The sold prices are whatever the car sold for, meaning it is what it is.

itswindee

Realistic or not, the results are factual and the results are for 07' not 08's.

Diesel Benz

Posts like this should be forbidden. I've been looking at a used W204, small diesel and the local market price is just about equal to the lowest S600 figures above. Are these really S600? Not that I would not take an S550 at the cost of a low end W204.

WSH

Any dealer/wholesaler buying a used, '07 600/65 in today's economy is taking on a bit of risk, so will naturally bid low amts....not clear how long these cars will sit unsold and at what price they finally sell; dealers face increasingly tight credit, so cost of sitting on unsold cars needs to be priced....my sense is today is one of worst mkts for used luxury cars in past 15+yrs...

My guess is that in most major US mkts, some ?70-90% of new, '07 600/65 were $0-down, 2-yr leased, so cost of driving car for 2yrs was fixed in advance...

This Summer/Fall, many of those '07's will be returned to dealer at lease-end....and guys will simply do another 2-yr, $0-down lease of a new, '09 600/65....gotta love the cheapness/disposability of new cars in US...and the capital efficiency of US car leases....

Mercutio.Mont

Those leases may become increasingly expensive if the used car market doesn't pick up. Or the Manufacturers may be forced to stop offering them at all, a la Chrysler. Two friends of mine own vehicle dealerships representing pretty much all brands between them, and they're saying that this is the worst they can remember. Of course our memory seems to exaggerate current crises, but their judgments just may be correct here.

vonbeeler - Are you using Hoehn? Their service has been excellent in my experience.

itswindee

Yes, those are really the prices that sold for 07' S600 at auctions nationwide within the month of July. Those are wholesale prices not retail.

WSH

Fair points...

Suspect MB will hesitate to raise leasing prices as sales of S-Classes seem to heavily depend upon cheap leases in US....higher lease costs may prompt many S550 buyers to simply opt for cheaper (and less profitable) new E-Classes; or S600/63/65 buyers to opt for less profitable S550s....it's a tricky balance...

But MB has a richer profit margin (esp on S-Class) than US mfrs; S-Class is prob 60%+ leased cars, whereas US mfrs are only ?20-30% leases....and my sense is some ?30-50% of S-Classes (esp 550) are business-purpose, tax-deducted cars, for which leasing is often a cleaner, more efficient financing....

Perhaps some US dealers will export used S-Classes out of US to capture the arbitrage of much higher RoW prices...

In any case, is fascinating to watch dynamics of high-end auto mkt, both new and used, in this economy/credit environment....

vonbeeler

I stoped using Hoehn when they gave me a Dodge Neon for a loaner when I brought my old 03 s500 for service. When I complained they said that was their policy since I didn't buy my car there. Even though I had previously purchased 3 cars from Hoehn. I have never been back.

ahmadkshuja

Looks like S600s supply has been reduced to match the perceived lack of demand due to gas prices / economic conditions. At present, there is no 2008 / S600s (with the exception of two with some aftermarket kits down in FL) that I see on eBay. Well, the good news is that there will not be many S600s to be seen on the roads.

cjf_moraga

I also have wondered if the S600 supply has been reduced. I have only every seen one S600 on the roads besides my own - ever... and that's in the Bay Area... Now perhaps I lead a sheltered life... but I never see them in dealers either... Perhaps I need to hang around expensive restaurants more...

Anyway S600's seem far rarer than AMG's... feels pretty good actually!

I do see this black S65 around Walnut Creek every now and then... so at least I have some 12 cylinder company.

Chris

vonbeeler

Ahmad,
Yes the great news with this car is even in German plentiful Southern CA area is it still remains rare. I've only seen a few S63's one 65 and one 600 in the last few months. Although if I just drive 40 miles to the North in the OC area the 63 and 65 are more plenty. You can just pull into the Bloomies parking lot and see about 5 63's in just a couple parking lanes. Its pretty crazy. San Diego a little more laid back surf comunity. Yo I was thinking of surf rack for the 600. That would be rad!! A Super rare S600 sport with surf rack and 9' long board. Hopefully the rarity will help hold prices a little now that we are in the $80k's. 70's 60's 50's 40's... now what to buy? How can they make a better car?

WSH

All these cars...S/CL600/63/65 are niche cars....

Used buyers typically are aspirational and, not surprisingly, want car that draws more attention....600 is def of an old-money car, which has lim appeal to most used buyers....

cjf, you'd be amused by some of the office pkg lots on SandHillRd in MenloPk....one of them typically has some 4-5 S65s; 2-3 S600s; 1-2 S63s; 2-3 CL63 030/600s; and an SL63 030 or two...all '07-'09....gotta love the 600/63/65 concentration....not many places in world that casually daily-drive new S/CL600/63/65 as much as SiliconValley's VCs and pvt equity guys.....only BevHills rivals it....

Mercutio.Mont

Agreed on all points - except that you mention the "profit margin" of US manufacturers. I wasn't aware that US made vehicles still involved profits?

I imagine that the manufacturers with sufficient means will bite the bullet, hold on to market share, and try to push through these current "interesting times" with an intact customer base awaiting them on the other side. Hopefully things turn around before the healthy auto companies are forced to drastic actions.