New S for a New economy? S350?
02-14-2009, 06:41 PM
#51
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Porsche Macan S SportDesign / Ex M-B's: 11 & 10 & 06 E350's, 02 S500
Holy crap. I don't know how much more of a price dilution there could be....
I would be ALL OVER that deal, I love the CL's!! I'm thinking of waiting until they hit the $40K mark with hopefully a CPO, find one with the AMG package, and ****** it up.
02-14-2009, 07:17 PM
#52
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Yes, that is true about the taxation and the price in other countries.
In my country which is South Korea, taxation of S350 for every year is $700 while S500 is around $1400. Furthermore, gas price, it is like 2 dollars(high-octane) for a litter which means 7 or 8 dollars for gallon. Think about it. S350 is pretty good choice. By the way, S350 fully loaded is $150,000, S500 is $200,000 in Korea.
In my country which is South Korea, taxation of S350 for every year is $700 while S500 is around $1400. Furthermore, gas price, it is like 2 dollars(high-octane) for a litter which means 7 or 8 dollars for gallon. Think about it. S350 is pretty good choice. By the way, S350 fully loaded is $150,000, S500 is $200,000 in Korea.
02-14-2009, 08:27 PM
#53
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I think for the American market, due to its relative 'bargain' vehicle prices, an S350 or S400 would dilute the brand and S Class status as the flagship. This is even though the S350 makes perfect sense for those who don't need the power and want excellent fuel economy on a big, heavy car like the S Class. I personally think an S420CDI would make better sense for the US market.
S300/S350/S400 makes perfect sense in other markets where taxes inflate prices of vehicle. E.g. Buy an imported S350 in Malaysia equals to the price of almost 2x S600 in the US. Not to mention the annual road taxes to keep the cars licensed to the road. These taxes are based on engine displacement.
As to the argument of what is considered sufficient power, it is subjective and never ending. I know some on the forum say the S550 is underpowered. I have driven <200hp S Classes and an S350 at 270hp is already 'enough' for me, esp in places where road conditions are poor and congested. Even on highways, the other vehicles are relatively less powerful, so with 270hp highway merging or takeover is a breeze. In Canada, I of course enjoy my S550 and it's powerful enough esp when I compare to an S350. But thoughts of the S600 and S63/65 always come up in my mind because they are not another $100k-200k as it would be in Asia. More hp is always better/more fun, but I guess the question is: "at what price?"
My thoughts are that S400 is going to be amazing package of a luxury cruiser. But for the US market, I am afraid it will dilute the brand. An S420CDI near the S550 price point would be good for those eco-conscious. Another factor is S400 with 'only' around 300hp does not compete well with competitors in the USA.
S300/S350/S400 makes perfect sense in other markets where taxes inflate prices of vehicle. E.g. Buy an imported S350 in Malaysia equals to the price of almost 2x S600 in the US. Not to mention the annual road taxes to keep the cars licensed to the road. These taxes are based on engine displacement.
As to the argument of what is considered sufficient power, it is subjective and never ending. I know some on the forum say the S550 is underpowered. I have driven <200hp S Classes and an S350 at 270hp is already 'enough' for me, esp in places where road conditions are poor and congested. Even on highways, the other vehicles are relatively less powerful, so with 270hp highway merging or takeover is a breeze. In Canada, I of course enjoy my S550 and it's powerful enough esp when I compare to an S350. But thoughts of the S600 and S63/65 always come up in my mind because they are not another $100k-200k as it would be in Asia. More hp is always better/more fun, but I guess the question is: "at what price?"
My thoughts are that S400 is going to be amazing package of a luxury cruiser. But for the US market, I am afraid it will dilute the brand. An S420CDI near the S550 price point would be good for those eco-conscious. Another factor is S400 with 'only' around 300hp does not compete well with competitors in the USA.
On exclusivity, MBUSA is completely at fault for flooding the market with cars that were too cheap before, and now that prices have come back to normal, they have huge inventory/sales requirements of dealers that completely dilute the market. The best thing to do, move to an order-driven market with small inventories on dealer lots. Increased profitability to begin with, and higher value retention.
02-15-2009, 10:27 AM
#54
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I am currently paying around USD2500 in road tax a year plus USD2700 per year in all-risk insurance for my S350. It's a very expensive upkeep for the car. But at least gas is really cheap here. Our 95RON gas is only USD 0.45/Liter or around USD 1/gallon. Thank God for government subsidies on fuel.
But the other guys on this thread who don't live in the US know where I am coming from. As far as the rest of the world is concerned, an S-class is an S-class, regardless of the displacement. Not to mention the fact that it's so rare to see this breed of car on the street anyway, that whether it's an S300 (yes, they even make that watered-down version!) or an S63, makes little difference to the "commoners". I still get front row lobby parking at any 5-star hotel or top restaurant. People still look at the car and admire it. Oh, don't forget the fact that the S350 is a GIANT compared to whatever else is on the street. Imagine this classification, a Camry or an Accord falls into the category of full-sized sedan and a civic or a vios is considered as mid-size. Our roads are smaller, highly congested and very tight. An S350 is as imposing on Asian streets as a Phantom would in America. So yeah, I wouldn't worry too much about dilution....
But the other guys on this thread who don't live in the US know where I am coming from. As far as the rest of the world is concerned, an S-class is an S-class, regardless of the displacement. Not to mention the fact that it's so rare to see this breed of car on the street anyway, that whether it's an S300 (yes, they even make that watered-down version!) or an S63, makes little difference to the "commoners". I still get front row lobby parking at any 5-star hotel or top restaurant. People still look at the car and admire it. Oh, don't forget the fact that the S350 is a GIANT compared to whatever else is on the street. Imagine this classification, a Camry or an Accord falls into the category of full-sized sedan and a civic or a vios is considered as mid-size. Our roads are smaller, highly congested and very tight. An S350 is as imposing on Asian streets as a Phantom would in America. So yeah, I wouldn't worry too much about dilution....
02-16-2009, 10:35 AM
#58
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Personally, I think anyone who drives an M-B for status can have fun with that factor for maybe a couple of years, until their cars are worth peanuts comparatively speaking, or can just feel comfortable with the fact that they are driving one of the best engineered, in most cases timeless, and luxurious cars available, regardless of public perception.
I wish more people could enjoy the car per se, instaead of lamenting
over the depreciating factor.
Mark.
02-16-2009, 07:22 PM
#59
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Porsche Macan S SportDesign / Ex M-B's: 11 & 10 & 06 E350's, 02 S500
What kind of car is that in your avatar? The rear and profile of it look mostly like a 211, but the panels look like a 221.... I'd think it was undoubtedly a 221 at first glance, except the rear lights shape give away the 211.
02-17-2009, 08:53 PM
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Sonderklasse
02-22-2009, 07:05 AM
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02-22-2009, 02:43 PM
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Sonderklasse
It's scary to think there are many places around the world where successful people who wish to indulge in their accomplishments do so at extra risk, e.g. they would want to buy a nice car but such would increase the amount of unwanted attention on the road. Am told it's much worse in parts of Latin Am and parts of Eastern Europe. I think we are quite lucky in SE Asia, road violence aren't that rampant.
02-24-2009, 04:30 AM
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Sonderklasse
Indeed that's usually the major underlying factor. Good to note certain exceptions like Vietnam where income disparity is sizeable yet public safety is generally in good order.
02-24-2009, 11:20 AM
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To be honest most of the S class vehicles I see around town are driven by much older folks who usually drive annoying 15 mph below the speed limit on the highway slowing down traffic and accelerate like a snail at stoplights 
. Never understood why they bought a car with such a large engine if they never utilize it 
. Anyway my point is not everyone needs such a large engine some buy it because its a larger car.
. Never understood why they bought a car with such a large engine if they never utilize it . Anyway my point is not everyone needs such a large engine some buy it because its a larger car.
02-24-2009, 07:10 PM
#67
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2010 E350 4Matic
To be honest most of the S class vehicles I see around town are driven by much older folks who usually drive annoying 15 mph below the speed limit on the highway slowing down traffic and accelerate like a snail at stoplights . Never understood why they bought a car with such a large engine if they never utilize it . Anyway my point is not everyone needs such a large engine some buy it because its a larger car.
. Never understood why they bought a car with such a large engine if they never utilize it . Anyway my point is not everyone needs such a large engine some buy it because its a larger car.
02-25-2009, 01:22 AM
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2013 650i Coupe, 2010 IS250 AWD, 1999 S500
Just like with the W220, there might be a W221 S350 with direct-injection and 300hp for 2011-2012, the last few model years of the W221 to prop up sales. By then Mercedes should have the DI issue worked out for the U.S. market. In the near future say for 2010, there might be a S450, but I doubt it. There just isn't any need for it. S-Class still outsell everything in the class except the Lexus LS and a 340hp S450 isn't going to change that against a 380hp LS460, especially when the Lexus is likely to still be much less expensive in SWB form, LS460.
M
M
02-25-2009, 03:13 AM
#69
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I think if S550 isn't selling well, then better stop production and sell only S63. Actual manufacruting cost difference between S350 and S550 is just a little, when price difference is significant.
