Facelifted S-Class vs. new 7 Series
06-14-2009, 07:24 AM
#26
BMW makes me yawn at first and sleep later
06-14-2009, 08:05 AM
#27
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96 and 08 911 turbos
Would get a '10 S600 or S65 if need a kid hauler; o/w would get '10 CL65
Haven't driven '10s yet but am intrigued by various tech advances and refinements to steering/ABC/stab ctrls, as well as more advanced safety systems (have a July build '10 CL65 on order to gain first-hand exposure
)
S550 simply lacks tq, brakes and an acceptable interior; IMO, a $100K S550 is a much worse value than a $200K S65
BMWs are some of world's most mockable wannabe perf cars (along w/Bents)....weak safety engineering, tq-free and/or turbo lag-rich motors, clunky gearboxes, no brakes, sloppy chassis/steering vs real-world mtn twisties, no HVAC (even vs mild SiliconValley heat w/low humidity), puny fuel tank, etc etc
Have test-driven enough new M3 or M5 or 750 over the yrs to simply cite them as excellent examples of why positive (or negative) car mag reviews are worthless vs views of any jaded driver after a brief test-drive on an interesting fwy/twisties mix
Haven't driven '10s yet but am intrigued by various tech advances and refinements to steering/ABC/stab ctrls, as well as more advanced safety systems (have a July build '10 CL65 on order to gain first-hand exposure
)S550 simply lacks tq, brakes and an acceptable interior; IMO, a $100K S550 is a much worse value than a $200K S65
BMWs are some of world's most mockable wannabe perf cars (along w/Bents)....weak safety engineering, tq-free and/or turbo lag-rich motors, clunky gearboxes, no brakes, sloppy chassis/steering vs real-world mtn twisties, no HVAC (even vs mild SiliconValley heat w/low humidity), puny fuel tank, etc etc
Have test-driven enough new M3 or M5 or 750 over the yrs to simply cite them as excellent examples of why positive (or negative) car mag reviews are worthless vs views of any jaded driver after a brief test-drive on an interesting fwy/twisties mix
I like the new 7 series, but prefer the exterior looks of the 221.
06-14-2009, 08:25 AM
#28
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'22 Alpina B7,'21 G63 Renntech obviously (wife), Wrangler(kids)
Mercedes' most notable shortcoming continues to be the lack of appropriate/suitable interior options. Although the S550 is basically the "entry level" model, the car is nonetheless, the flagship of Mercedes and deserves better than its pedestrian leather surfaces. Even the optional leather upgrade, still below S600 quality, is hardly noteworthy. The Designo options while enhancing the interior appearance, limit the buyer to "canned" interior/exterior color combinations further diminished by MBUSA reticence to readily market the option beyond only a few color combinations. Obviously the S600/S65 at $150-190k offers what many S-Class buyers would like to see (and expect) in their interiors, but this is a large leap from the probably average $100k S550 price. What would be so wrong for Mercedes to offer the desired interior as maybe a $4-5000 option? Other luxury brands, such as Porsche will even let you radically customize your car with special paint and special leather, beyond the enhanced "option" list - for a price. Wouldn't this make sense for the market leader, Mercedes?
I only wish MB offered a program of options as wide as the ones widely used by othe manufacturers like Porsche or Bentley.
Tried last year to order a CL65 Titanum Grey with Cognac interior.
My dealer tried hard to convince MBUSA to take the order,I talked to Rob Allen numerous times and finally they rejected the order (at MSRP,plus I offered to pay extra fee for "individual order").
That,plus my dislike of the geriatric clicker pretending to be transmission shifter turned me off and I got the Speed with everything done EXACTLY the way I wanted.
AWD and CCBs (a must in a heavy car that I really abuse) were the icing on the cake.
Last edited by absent; 06-14-2009 at 08:36 AM.
06-14-2009, 12:57 PM
#29
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FWIW just picked a ’09 335i coupe for my daughter and the manager said, “Off the record, the new 750 is cold as ice!”
06-14-2009, 06:51 PM
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2015 S550, 2016 Escalade
I think this 7 series intoduction is much warmer compared to the last model into. Remember the "Bangel Butt" fiasco? That didn't seem to hamper sales too much as it went on to sell quite well. But most reviews have been quite favorable to the body styling this time around.
All that said, it's still not as much of a looker as the S.
06-14-2009, 07:51 PM
#31
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+2, it certainly does.
On the record, I don't like any BMW's with the exception of the 6 or M6 series. The 3 does nothing for me, 5 or 7. The 7 looks really cheap. boring, and funny from the rear. Kind of like a woman with a cute face that is flat all the way around, no curves, no excitement. Now if they actually produced the 8 series that was a concept, now that would get my interest.
Sorry, I would take a S-Class any day over a BMW. If it was a S63, FORGET IT. The BMW would just be a thought in the fumes. Hell, I would take my CLS500 over a 7 series beemer. Oh damn, who am I kidding, I would even take an E first. LOL.
On the record, I don't like any BMW's with the exception of the 6 or M6 series. The 3 does nothing for me, 5 or 7. The 7 looks really cheap. boring, and funny from the rear. Kind of like a woman with a cute face that is flat all the way around, no curves, no excitement. Now if they actually produced the 8 series that was a concept, now that would get my interest.
Sorry, I would take a S-Class any day over a BMW. If it was a S63, FORGET IT. The BMW would just be a thought in the fumes. Hell, I would take my CLS500 over a 7 series beemer. Oh damn, who am I kidding, I would even take an E first. LOL.
06-14-2009, 11:37 PM
#32
+2, it certainly does.
On the record, I don't like any BMW's with the exception of the 6 or M6 series. The 3 does nothing for me, 5 or 7. The 7 looks really cheap. boring, and funny from the rear. Kind of like a woman with a cute face that is flat all the way around, no curves, no excitement. Now if they actually produced the 8 series that was a concept, now that would get my interest.
Sorry, I would take a S-Class any day over a BMW. If it was a S63, FORGET IT. The BMW would just be a thought in the fumes. Hell, I would take my CLS500 over a 7 series beemer. Oh damn, who am I kidding, I would even take an E first. LOL.
On the record, I don't like any BMW's with the exception of the 6 or M6 series. The 3 does nothing for me, 5 or 7. The 7 looks really cheap. boring, and funny from the rear. Kind of like a woman with a cute face that is flat all the way around, no curves, no excitement. Now if they actually produced the 8 series that was a concept, now that would get my interest.
Sorry, I would take a S-Class any day over a BMW. If it was a S63, FORGET IT. The BMW would just be a thought in the fumes. Hell, I would take my CLS500 over a 7 series beemer. Oh damn, who am I kidding, I would even take an E first. LOL.
But it seems that most people I talk to want a damn BMW over a MB
I think what it is, is that they can't afford the MB to be honest and therefore ACT like they want the BMW over the MB.
06-15-2009, 01:21 AM
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2015 S550, 2016 Escalade
I do think a S550 would probably be though of as a hint more expensive/luxurious by a layman unfamiliar with the numbers.
06-15-2009, 01:54 AM
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Benzo
I don't think so...give or take, BMW's and Mercedes-Benz pricing is pretty similar around here for comparable models. It's not like a 7 is WAY cheaper than a S, or vice versa so.
06-15-2009, 02:08 AM
#35
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No it isn't. The prices are very comparable, you guys are right. However, the look, feel, finish, well BMW's as I said just don't get it for me.
If I was forced to drive a beemer (other than the 6) it would be like dating the worst girlfriend I ever had. Well maybe not the worst, but about there.
If I was forced to drive a beemer (other than the 6) it would be like dating the worst girlfriend I ever had. Well maybe not the worst, but about there.
06-15-2009, 04:59 AM
#37
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Sonderklasse
In Canada, while almost all competing MB and BMW models are priced similar, I'd say BMW tends to have more deals, esp lower interest rate on lease deals. Furthermore, a base 2010 750Li starts at $113k while the S550 starts at $123k; a fully loaded S550 and 750Li would be circa $150k and $138k, respectively, plus taxes. BMWs come with 4-year free service and maintenance, easily another value of $2-3k at least?
Similarly, in many Asian countries, while most BMWs are priced similar (if not for a premium) to their MB counterparts, when it comes to the high-end flagships (S vs 7), seems like the 7-series tend to be either slightly cheaper in $$ terms or better value as in more options/standard features.
I have to say though, the looks of the new 7, while not as elegant and does not command as much presence as the S, is much improved and slowly growing on me. The interior is also vastly improved and actually quite impressive! Ergonomics may still be a little behind though. Have to give BMW credit for making this leap, but I'm sure the next-generation S-Class will raise the bar yet again.
Similarly, in many Asian countries, while most BMWs are priced similar (if not for a premium) to their MB counterparts, when it comes to the high-end flagships (S vs 7), seems like the 7-series tend to be either slightly cheaper in $$ terms or better value as in more options/standard features.
I have to say though, the looks of the new 7, while not as elegant and does not command as much presence as the S, is much improved and slowly growing on me. The interior is also vastly improved and actually quite impressive! Ergonomics may still be a little behind though. Have to give BMW credit for making this leap, but I'm sure the next-generation S-Class will raise the bar yet again.
06-15-2009, 07:22 AM
#38
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MB
+1! Needs to put down the Kool-Aid...
The S600 and S65 series are outstanding, but the poster's dismissive comments of the other subtypes/ makes fails to note some of their distinguishing characteristics which make these cars more usable as daily drivers.
Torque hungry? By a sports car (and please frequent a track). Need something to safely transport your family to the mountains for a ski trip or use as a daily driver in all forms of weather? Hands down the S550 4matic is the way to go for this purpose. You can buy a reasonable sports car with the 1yr depreciation of the S65 alone...
The S600 and S65 series are outstanding, but the poster's dismissive comments of the other subtypes/ makes fails to note some of their distinguishing characteristics which make these cars more usable as daily drivers.
Torque hungry? By a sports car (and please frequent a track). Need something to safely transport your family to the mountains for a ski trip or use as a daily driver in all forms of weather? Hands down the S550 4matic is the way to go for this purpose. You can buy a reasonable sports car with the 1yr depreciation of the S65 alone...
06-15-2009, 07:26 AM
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2013 SL550 Tectite Black
WSH is the reason why I hate these forums ... some ppl here have a SDS (Small d**k Syndrome); Anyway, I agree with you that WSH is an ignorant F^Ck.
06-15-2009, 08:26 AM
#40
Not sure thats the reason. The new 750Li is priced almost exactly the same as a S550. Starts at $85k (which the 2010 S550 will also), and tops out at $113k.
I do think a S550 would probably be though of as a hint more expensive/luxurious by a layman unfamiliar with the numbers.
I do think a S550 would probably be though of as a hint more expensive/luxurious by a layman unfamiliar with the numbers.
06-15-2009, 05:50 PM
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2005 Range Rover HSE, 2008 BMW M3 Cab d/c, 2010 GL550 (wifes), 1993 Porsche 928GTS 32kmi garage quee
I think it is the perceived difference because in the past if I recall the 7 always was less expensive. However with this new model they are obviously more closely matched at price. I wonder how this will play out with sales. Not sure how many people want to spend $110k for a 7. Same thing with the LS. Used to always be less expensive but now isn't the LS loaded L version close to $100k? The only thing I would consider from BMW is the M3 with DCT. It is a lot of fun. I also like the current 5 and might consider over the current E.
06-15-2009, 05:58 PM
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2005 Range Rover HSE, 2008 BMW M3 Cab d/c, 2010 GL550 (wifes), 1993 Porsche 928GTS 32kmi garage quee
BTW this is a little off topic but... Rented a F430 Spyder for the weekend.
YES it is everything
you expect and more. I think it is the ultimate car of all time. Currently going for $170kish on ebay for an 05 or 06 with less than 5k miles. Once the S is paid for in two years, I'm in. Hopefully by then it will be down to $120kish. Every car fanatic must own or at least rent this car.
YES it is everything
you expect and more. I think it is the ultimate car of all time. Currently going for $170kish on ebay for an 05 or 06 with less than 5k miles. Once the S is paid for in two years, I'm in. Hopefully by then it will be down to $120kish. Every car fanatic must own or at least rent this car.
06-15-2009, 11:27 PM
#43
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'22 Alpina B7,'21 G63 Renntech obviously (wife), Wrangler(kids)
BTW this is a little off topic but... Rented a F430 Spyder for the weekend.
YES it is everything you expect and more. I think it is the ultimate car of all time. Currently going for $170kish on ebay for an 05 or 06 with less than 5k miles. Once the S is paid for in two years, I'm in. Hopefully by then it will be down to $120kish. Every car fanatic must own or at least rent this car.
YES it is everything
you expect and more. I think it is the ultimate car of all time. Currently going for $170kish on ebay for an 05 or 06 with less than 5k miles. Once the S is paid for in two years, I'm in. Hopefully by then it will be down to $120kish. Every car fanatic must own or at least rent this car.
06-16-2009, 08:14 AM
#44
BTW this is a little off topic but... Rented a F430 Spyder for the weekend.
YES it is everything you expect and more. I think it is the ultimate car of all time. Currently going for $170kish on ebay for an 05 or 06 with less than 5k miles. Once the S is paid for in two years, I'm in. Hopefully by then it will be down to $120kish. Every car fanatic must own or at least rent this car.
YES it is everything
you expect and more. I think it is the ultimate car of all time. Currently going for $170kish on ebay for an 05 or 06 with less than 5k miles. Once the S is paid for in two years, I'm in. Hopefully by then it will be down to $120kish. Every car fanatic must own or at least rent this car.Congrats on the rental and thanks for relaying that info. I've never driven anything of a sporty variety and you're making me want to try this out.
06-16-2009, 08:38 AM
#45
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Ferrari = weekend car.
As much as I admire the style and the looks of it, it's still far away from a daily commuter.
That's what I need, so Ultimate...it is not (but close)
BTW, I agree with the rental idea. If somebody is itching for it, rental is the way to go.
Depending on frequency of driving days, it might be a much cheaper, (err... less expensive) deal.
06-16-2009, 11:37 AM
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2007 s600 2007 cls63
BTW this is a little off topic but... Rented a F430 Spyder for the weekend.
YES it is everything you expect and more. I think it is the ultimate car of all time. Currently going for $170kish on ebay for an 05 or 06 with less than 5k miles. Once the S is paid for in two years, I'm in. Hopefully by then it will be down to $120kish. Every car fanatic must own or at least rent this car.
YES it is everything you expect and more. I think it is the ultimate car of all time. Currently going for $170kish on ebay for an 05 or 06 with less than 5k miles. Once the S is paid for in two years, I'm in. Hopefully by then it will be down to $120kish. Every car fanatic must own or at least rent this car.
06-16-2009, 11:51 AM
#47
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'22 Alpina B7,'21 G63 Renntech obviously (wife), Wrangler(kids)
I dont want to keep this thread off topic but can anyone provide $ figures for current ferrari service? Always thought the maintenance end of ownership is what kept all those cars you see on the market with such low miles...170k is not much to spend for all that performance if maintainance fees were similar to a mercedes...
The reasons these cars have generally very low miles are usually:resale value,sphincter cramp every time you park the thing in any public place , relative lack of practicality and discomfort when using it as a daily driver.
These cars are weekend toys that are supposed to bring a smile to your face,any Benz will fit the role of a daily driver 1000 times better.
06-16-2009, 01:40 PM
#48
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Sorry to keep off topic but to answer some question and to clarify. Yes it is definitely not an everyday car. Number one reason is it draws way too much attention. I plan on keeping my S when it is paid for because currently there is nothing I would trade it for. The 430 would be a "NO COMPROMISE" sports car. When I bought the S I called it the "no compromise" luxury car. Simply put it is the best at what is intended for. Cant' really justify spending the $ until S is free and clear.
As far as maintenance the current cars are much more reliable and easy to service than in the past. Major service on 430 is around $5k-7k. Should be done every 15k miles or 4 years I believe. Other than that they are reliable. Sure parts are expensive but shouldn't break that often as any product from Stuttgart.
In regards to other members comments of Ferrari being pos compared to 65 etc. I say drive one. It will bring a smile and a thrill to you that only one other thing in life can provide. It truly is amazing!! Its indescribable. Just experience it for yourself and I'm confident you will come away thrilled. If you do rent I suggest at least a few days so you can see what it would be like to live with it. Safety.... and I have real world experience from this, it is one of the safest most rigid structures available.
As far as maintenance the current cars are much more reliable and easy to service than in the past. Major service on 430 is around $5k-7k. Should be done every 15k miles or 4 years I believe. Other than that they are reliable. Sure parts are expensive but shouldn't break that often as any product from Stuttgart.
In regards to other members comments of Ferrari being pos compared to 65 etc. I say drive one. It will bring a smile and a thrill to you that only one other thing in life can provide. It truly is amazing!! Its indescribable. Just experience it for yourself and I'm confident you will come away thrilled. If you do rent I suggest at least a few days so you can see what it would be like to live with it. Safety.... and I have real world experience from this, it is one of the safest most rigid structures available.
06-16-2009, 03:41 PM
#49
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Sorry to keep off topic but to answer some question and to clarify. Yes it is definitely not an everyday car. Number one reason is it draws way too much attention. I plan on keeping my S when it is paid for because currently there is nothing I would trade it for. The 430 would be a "NO COMPROMISE" sports car. When I bought the S I called it the "no compromise" luxury car. Simply put it is the best at what is intended for. Cant' really justify spending the $ until S is free and clear.
As far as maintenance the current cars are much more reliable and easy to service than in the past. Major service on 430 is around $5k-7k. Should be done every 15k miles or 4 years I believe. Other than that they are reliable. Sure parts are expensive but shouldn't break that often as any product from Stuttgart.
In regards to other members comments of Ferrari being pos compared to 65 etc. I say drive one. It will bring a smile and a thrill to you that only one other thing in life can provide. It truly is amazing!! Its indescribable. Just experience it for yourself and I'm confident you will come away thrilled. If you do rent I suggest at least a few days so you can see what it would be like to live with it. Safety.... and I have real world experience from this, it is one of the safest most rigid structures available.
As far as maintenance the current cars are much more reliable and easy to service than in the past. Major service on 430 is around $5k-7k. Should be done every 15k miles or 4 years I believe. Other than that they are reliable. Sure parts are expensive but shouldn't break that often as any product from Stuttgart.
In regards to other members comments of Ferrari being pos compared to 65 etc. I say drive one. It will bring a smile and a thrill to you that only one other thing in life can provide. It truly is amazing!! Its indescribable. Just experience it for yourself and I'm confident you will come away thrilled. If you do rent I suggest at least a few days so you can see what it would be like to live with it. Safety.... and I have real world experience from this, it is one of the safest most rigid structures available.
06-18-2009, 12:59 AM
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'09 S63 AMG
To date I have not seen a single 2010 750iL. I think that says something.
It's actually kind of sad to see how far the 750i has fallen. BMW needs to style the 7 more in line with the 335 Coupe. That's about the sharpest looking bimmer on the road right now.
