Porsche Panamera Dud?
11-09-2009, 12:15 AM
#51
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10 S550 4matic Palladium, 12 G550 Edition Select Silver, 10 BMW 128i Cabrio Blue Water
Do you know what IMHO means? You name any Porsche and I will always choose a MB, as far as the 911's go there is always MB ie slk, clk, sl and at the upper end the Black Series and SLR. And yes I have driven 911 Turbo and Black Series CLK.
Last edited by 13pauls; 11-09-2009 at 12:20 AM.
11-09-2009, 07:49 AM
#52
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96 and 08 911 turbos
ok, thats your opinion, but I couldn't disagree more.
Luxury? MB all the way.
Sports car? porsche by a mile.
Love the launch edition interior btw.
Luxury? MB all the way.
Sports car? porsche by a mile.
Love the launch edition interior btw.
Last edited by Quadcammer; 11-09-2009 at 07:52 AM.
11-09-2009, 10:21 PM
#53
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2012 MB CLS 550
[QUOTE=vonbeeler;3799289]
U r also saying u bought a used M3, so a used 2007 997TT wholesales for mid 80's and again for that price point whats better balanced, more powerful, more drivable while still giving u status of driving a Porsche, I contend nothing....and a used Carrera S is much cheaper....
Lou
I guess for me the point is Porsche was always way above in performance and at the $100k base model its just mediocre.
So in summary as of late Porsche has been too much $ for not enough performance for me. QUOTE]
I am repeating myself because I don't think it came across the first time....
So In summary: AS OF LATE, Porsche has been too much $ for not enough performance for me.
I wasn't trying to compare head to head even though they almost do. I was using the M3 as illustration that the Porsche is too much $ for the performance or lack thereof at its price point.
To further the debate of too much $ for not enough performance. Here is another illustration: I just sold a base 5 year old Corvette with Z-51 pkg that was more HP, 3200lbs, a lot more torque, handled 95% as well, for a paltry $27 grand. So when I look at a brand new 911 S with less overall performance for $105,000 its just not very motivating and actually disappointing.
So in summary as of late Porsche has been too much $ for not enough performance for me. QUOTE]
I am repeating myself because I don't think it came across the first time....
So In summary: AS OF LATE, Porsche has been too much $ for not enough performance for me.
I wasn't trying to compare head to head even though they almost do. I was using the M3 as illustration that the Porsche is too much $ for the performance or lack thereof at its price point.
To further the debate of too much $ for not enough performance. Here is another illustration: I just sold a base 5 year old Corvette with Z-51 pkg that was more HP, 3200lbs, a lot more torque, handled 95% as well, for a paltry $27 grand. So when I look at a brand new 911 S with less overall performance for $105,000 its just not very motivating and actually disappointing.
U r also saying u bought a used M3, so a used 2007 997TT wholesales for mid 80's and again for that price point whats better balanced, more powerful, more drivable while still giving u status of driving a Porsche, I contend nothing....and a used Carrera S is much cheaper....
Lou
11-09-2009, 10:26 PM
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2012 MB CLS 550
Im with u, MB makes nothing like any Porsche...Ive driven every MB AMG besides the SL black series and they still arent close to Porsche's...Theyre still much heavier, less sporty and not in the same same league performance or handling wise...I'll go even as far as saying MB AMG cant match BMW M in overall sport/handling/steering feel much less Porsche....As some poster above said Porsche does luxury better than MB does sportiness....And porsche certainly does sport miles better than MB.....
And im not trying to bash MB, to each his own, MB makes unbelievable and beautiful cars, sporty they are not
Lou
11-10-2009, 12:25 AM
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2005 Range Rover HSE, 2008 BMW M3 Cab d/c, 2010 GL550 (wifes), 1993 Porsche 928GTS 32kmi garage quee
U r also saying u bought a used M3, so a used 2007 997TT wholesales for mid 80's and again for that price point whats better balanced, more powerful, more drivable while still giving u status of driving a Porsche, I contend nothing....and a used Carrera S is much cheaper....
Lou
Last edited by vonbeeler; 11-10-2009 at 12:37 AM.
11-10-2009, 12:48 AM
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2005 Range Rover HSE, 2008 BMW M3 Cab d/c, 2010 GL550 (wifes), 1993 Porsche 928GTS 32kmi garage quee
U r also saying u bought a used M3, so a used 2007 997TT wholesales for mid 80's and again for that price point whats better balanced, more powerful, more drivable while still giving u status of driving a Porsche, I contend nothing....and a used Carrera S is much cheaper....
Lou
Last edited by vonbeeler; 11-10-2009 at 12:53 AM.
11-10-2009, 12:56 AM
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I do not agree with you on the Carrara S-just too weak. Come on... a less expensive Z06 and GTR would obliterate that relic. However yes I really like the turbo and agree with you on that but need a usable rear seat for my daily at this time. Porsche doesn't offer much status does it??? And Lou if you have access to wholesale prices then I should be going with you next time to the auction! Then I will be agreeing with you as I'm not paying the status(perceived) mark-up. i will like a 430 spyder red/tan next summer. Take me.
11-11-2009, 09:32 AM
#58
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Regardless of the questionable styling (looks better in reality then in pictures) ,it still is dynamically head and shoulders above ANY sedan on the market currently.
Interior is a Bulls Eye ,too.
Anyone who after driving it says that car is a POS is either mentally challenged or is lying about driving it (again,questionable styling notwithstanding).
Interior is a Bulls Eye ,too.
Anyone who after driving it says that car is a POS is either mentally challenged or is lying about driving it (again,questionable styling notwithstanding).
I love the interior, I would change a few things, but that is only being super critical. the interior is nicer than the new S class by far. fit and finish wise. the new 2010 is looking a bit caddy on the inside! especially the center console
11-11-2009, 04:53 PM
#59
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Porsche 911 is a fun car to own and there is nothing that compares to it. It is a 40 year old work in progress that has no equal. It is an iconic car with a cult like following not seen by any other mass produced automobile. Having said all of that, the car is only a toy and has no practical purpose. You practically must hate your money to buy one. As foolish a purchase it may be, I hate to think of the day I don't own a 911.
11-11-2009, 05:54 PM
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Porsche 911 is a fun car to own and there is nothing that compares to it. It is a 40 year old work in progress that has no equal. It is an iconic car with a cult like following not seen by any other mass produced automobile. Having said all of that, the car is only a toy and has no practical purpose. You practically must hate your money to buy one. As foolish a purchase it may be, I hate to think of the day I don't own a 911.
11-11-2009, 06:52 PM
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96 and 08 911 turbos
Porsche 911 is a fun car to own and there is nothing that compares to it. It is a 40 year old work in progress that has no equal. It is an iconic car with a cult like following not seen by any other mass produced automobile. Having said all of that, the car is only a toy and has no practical purpose. You practically must hate your money to buy one. As foolish a purchase it may be, I hate to think of the day I don't own a 911.
11-12-2009, 12:20 AM
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2005 Range Rover HSE, 2008 BMW M3 Cab d/c, 2010 GL550 (wifes), 1993 Porsche 928GTS 32kmi garage quee
i have been spewing a lot of trash talk on Porsche here but I gotta say I do love the turbos new and old. I'm sure I always will. I have fond memories the first time a saw the huge fender flares and wail tail to the unbelievable torque and launch of the latest tt 997. I think my frustration comes from the fact the I would prefer they kept the brand more exclusive. I saw a few photoshops of a potential new Panam version in coupe 928 style and I would definitely consider that.
11-16-2009, 11:30 AM
#63
NOSTALGIA: The company which built cars so peculiar that, under Dr. Porsche's dealers were not required to keep parts in stock because "my cars will not break down and need them". So replacements to the 911 in all its variables might be expected to be clones, but not creative avant-garde works of artistic and scientific engineering.
PRESENT: Ferdie Porsche and Jr are gone! The "Harvard School of Management" criteria, endowed with a VW badge, took over and the outlook is different. Nevertheless, the sports classical series two-sitters are unbeatable for iced and twisting mountain roads as well as for all purpose transportation. Getting into the larger daily drivers, the company policies is failing in that basic units are in desperate need of a considerable list of options which, for example, in the case of the Panamera T takes the list price from $136,000 to around $200k. A pricing policy change following a serious value engineering review, as big as the change from air cooled to water cooled engines, is deemed appropriate.
FUTURE: Who knows where the egocentric hunger for luxury lines shown by VW will lead... Meanwhile, if we love sport cars it's Porsche classics, if we need a DD with rocket acceleration with a hard ride it's BMW, if we need the plush luxury of comfort and unexcelled transportation it's MB... and if we cannot detach from the masses it's whatever we can afford from a Chevy, a Kia, or a Ford up (no Trabands or Yugos, please.
Well, I'll go back to sleep and you may go back to arguing. JV
PS: Just in case I'd like to open the umbrella before it rains: I'm driven in Company S or rent them in the US, and own a C in Argentina to look like other brands for security reasons. I'm a Mercedes aficionado all the way.
PRESENT: Ferdie Porsche and Jr are gone! The "Harvard School of Management" criteria, endowed with a VW badge, took over and the outlook is different. Nevertheless, the sports classical series two-sitters are unbeatable for iced and twisting mountain roads as well as for all purpose transportation. Getting into the larger daily drivers, the company policies is failing in that basic units are in desperate need of a considerable list of options which, for example, in the case of the Panamera T takes the list price from $136,000 to around $200k. A pricing policy change following a serious value engineering review, as big as the change from air cooled to water cooled engines, is deemed appropriate.
FUTURE: Who knows where the egocentric hunger for luxury lines shown by VW will lead... Meanwhile, if we love sport cars it's Porsche classics, if we need a DD with rocket acceleration with a hard ride it's BMW, if we need the plush luxury of comfort and unexcelled transportation it's MB... and if we cannot detach from the masses it's whatever we can afford from a Chevy, a Kia, or a Ford up (no Trabands or Yugos, please.
Well, I'll go back to sleep and you may go back to arguing. JV
PS: Just in case I'd like to open the umbrella before it rains: I'm driven in Company S or rent them in the US, and own a C in Argentina to look like other brands for security reasons. I'm a Mercedes aficionado all the way.
11-19-2009, 09:17 PM
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20+ to list......
AMG cars are sportier when you compare them with Mercedes's own lines of cars. Porsches, always have a special place in my heart as a sports car. 
11-21-2009, 09:02 PM
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Porsche, Mercedes & MINI
I just started a new thread on what do S-class owners think of the Panamera.
I think in this thread many interesting points are touched, obviously with the turn of events at Porsche, the Panamera is redundant in the VW spectrum, where the Cayenne sold well because it brought a new customer segment into the brand, the Panamera will not, it arrives late into a segment that is not expanding and it will be hard to find new customers for the Panamera, even worse, it will cause a split choice at the Porsche showroom thus slowing down the sales of Cayenne and some 911's, that's my prediction.
As far as the looks, well, obviously the S63 takes the cake as far as exterior looks, interior finish and power, but a well configured Panamera could stick.
I think in this thread many interesting points are touched, obviously with the turn of events at Porsche, the Panamera is redundant in the VW spectrum, where the Cayenne sold well because it brought a new customer segment into the brand, the Panamera will not, it arrives late into a segment that is not expanding and it will be hard to find new customers for the Panamera, even worse, it will cause a split choice at the Porsche showroom thus slowing down the sales of Cayenne and some 911's, that's my prediction.
As far as the looks, well, obviously the S63 takes the cake as far as exterior looks, interior finish and power, but a well configured Panamera could stick.
12-02-2009, 02:26 PM
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2007 S550 Sport
I can't say anything about the driving dynamics of the Panamera as I have not driven one yet. But I don't think I will ever get that opportunity as I think it looks hideous. I love all iterations of the 911, Cayman, and the 928 will forever be my boy-hood dream car, but first the cayenne and now this? I don't know whats going on over in stuttgart...
