What Exhaust Mod Would Significantly Improve Sound on my '07 CL600 v12 bi-Turbo?
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1953 Fiat Topolino
What Exhaust Mod Would Significantly Improve Sound on my '07 CL600 v12 bi-Turbo?
Serge's "Ridiculous Exhaust Costs" thread started me thinking about my own MB's 'quiet' exhaust and what to do about it. I own a '07 v12 CL600 with a stock factory exhaust (unexciting to the ear). I have heard that it is difficult to improve the exhaust note on a v12 bi-turbo MB vs a naturally aspirated model (e.g.CL63). Yet the current CL65/S65's exhaust sound is pretty aggressive and they have a v12 bi-turbo motor similar to mine. So it is technically possible, no? I am more interested in improving the sound characteristics of the exhaust note than in gaining more HP/torque (free flow). I have done extensive 'Search' in this forum but it has not clarified for me the issue. So let me ask you all directly. From the actual experiences of MBWorld members, what would you guys recommend that would get me an aggressive & sporty sound exhaust on a '07 to present v12 CL600/S600? Does a simple By-Pass system (similar to Sharkwerks for the Porsche gt3) work? Which supplier would be your choice - Meistershaft, Eisenmann, OEM factory CL65/S65 mufflers and what are their different 'characteristics' - pros and cons? What is the estimated cost of parts and labor that I should expect to pay? Are the expected results actually worth the costs (in your opinion) or should I leave well, even if unexciting, alone. Thanks in advance for your comments, private messages or you can email me at (venegas356@gmail.com). z356 (Carmel, Ca)
Last edited by Z356; Jan 10, 2010 at 03:24 PM.
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Joined: Oct 2005
Posts: 365
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From: San Jose
CL65 AMG , white S550 Sport w/ white Giovanna 22s, wild custom chopper
I've not had too much experience with vendors other than Eisenmann, but my CL sounds really good with their mufflers, and nothing else changed. It gets a bit louder under heavy load, but they do offer a quieter model for the same price. It's almost comparable to my loud version at idle and low RPMs, but doesn't have the same scream under heavy load.
I also love the way the S65 sounds idling and under low acceleration. The mufflers w/ tips are roughly $1,100 a side - so comparable to the Eisenmann cost wise, but you would get the factory parts/look and the tips would look a lot nicer than the Eisenmann ovals.
I also love the way the S65 sounds idling and under low acceleration. The mufflers w/ tips are roughly $1,100 a side - so comparable to the Eisenmann cost wise, but you would get the factory parts/look and the tips would look a lot nicer than the Eisenmann ovals.
Serge's "Ridiculous Exhaust Costs" thread started me thinking about my own MB's 'quiet' exhaust and what to do about it. I own a '07 v12 CL600 with a stock factory exhaust (unexciting to the ear). I have heard that it is difficult to improve the exhaust note on a v12 bi-turbo MB vs a naturally aspirated model (e.g.CL63). Yet the current CL65/S65's exhaust sound is pretty aggressive and they have a v12 bi-turbo motor similar to mine. So it is technically possible, no? I am more interested in improving the sound characteristics of the exhaust note than in gaining more HP/torque (free flow). I have done extensive 'Search' in this forum but it has not clarified for me the issue. So let me ask you all directly. From the actual experiences of MBWorld members, what would you guys recommend that would get me an aggressive & sporty sound exhaust on a '07 to present v12 CL600/S600? Does a simple By-Pass system (similar to Sharkwerks for the Porsche gt3) work? Which supplier would be your choice - Meistershaft, Eisenmann, OEM factory CL65/S65 mufflers and what are their different 'characteristics' - pros and cons? What is the estimated cost of parts and labor that I should expect to pay? Are the expected results actually worth the costs (in your opinion) or should I leave well, even if unexciting, alone. Thanks in advance for your comments, private messages or you can email me at (venegas356@gmail.com). z356 (Carmel, Ca)
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From: CA
2010 CL65
Exhaust music is overwhelmingly subjective; obviously, louder doesn't necessarily mean better...but also consider variances of sound upon start-up; w/windows&roof closed and any iPod/audio muted under mid-range accel on fwy; or in twisties (have found open windows/roof introduces extraneous road and wind noise that more than offsets purity of exhaust music heard from within a sealed-up CL).....and obviously, stuff sounds very different to bystanders (and cops) outside a car, esp when sounds bounce off urban buildings or mtnsides
IMO, 65 sounds much better than my prior 63....more elegantly intimidating exhaust note (and for me, best-sounding car available today)...not a fan of the raspiness of 63 note; had 600 >2 yrs ago but at time was far more impressed w/600 exhaust music than 997TT I had around that time
Def agree that exhaust note is an aspect of any car that is enjoyable daily and at any speed...even on start-up and on a 30MPH short urban commute....and, IMO, AMG does exhaust music better than any mfr on planet today, incl Fiat and VW....and AMG is only mfr that can brilliantly engineer V12TT exhaust notes, far more challenging than a NA V8, given inherent smoothness of V12s and muffling effects of turbos
IMO, 65 sounds much better than my prior 63....more elegantly intimidating exhaust note (and for me, best-sounding car available today)...not a fan of the raspiness of 63 note; had 600 >2 yrs ago but at time was far more impressed w/600 exhaust music than 997TT I had around that time
Def agree that exhaust note is an aspect of any car that is enjoyable daily and at any speed...even on start-up and on a 30MPH short urban commute....and, IMO, AMG does exhaust music better than any mfr on planet today, incl Fiat and VW....and AMG is only mfr that can brilliantly engineer V12TT exhaust notes, far more challenging than a NA V8, given inherent smoothness of V12s and muffling effects of turbos
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From: Long Island, NY
1999 C43 White on Black/White, 1999 CLK430, 2004 CLK500
BiTurbo V12 MB's are quiet... I put an Einsmann on a 08 CL600 and it made a ever so slight difference in tone... Then we took off the whole rear section of an SL65 and ran it, it made some noise... But nothing worth discussing....
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From: San Jose
CL65 AMG , white S550 Sport w/ white Giovanna 22s, wild custom chopper
Do you recall which Eisenmann model you used? There is the quiet model that is less restrictive than stock - but not much gains sound wise and than there is the loud one, I think they called it "race" version - which should sound louder. The vendor that got your exhaust would have to make the order correctly to get you the right muffler set...
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2007 s600 2007 cls63
I have the Meistershaft exhaust on my S600 and still very quiet. I got the loudest that they offer (I think its either race or GT) and its not even close to what a C63 would make. I remeber having the OEM muffler taken off at a body shop and driving to a muffler shop with NO muffler and resonator still it did not sound any louder. Its not the resonator that's making the exhaust quiet but somewhere else further up into the headers. I'm thinking for a REAL exhaust sound from the V12 might need to remove the primary cats and not just the resonator like most would think.
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From: Clifton, NJ
96 and 08 911 turbos
Exhaust music is overwhelmingly subjective; obviously, louder doesn't necessarily mean better...but also consider variances of sound upon start-up; w/windows&roof closed and any iPod/audio muted under mid-range accel on fwy; or in twisties (have found open windows/roof introduces extraneous road and wind noise that more than offsets purity of exhaust music heard from within a sealed-up CL).....and obviously, stuff sounds very different to bystanders (and cops) outside a car, esp when sounds bounce off urban buildings or mtnsides
IMO, 65 sounds much better than my prior 63....more elegantly intimidating exhaust note (and for me, best-sounding car available today)...not a fan of the raspiness of 63 note; had 600 >2 yrs ago but at time was far more impressed w/600 exhaust music than 997TT I had around that time
Def agree that exhaust note is an aspect of any car that is enjoyable daily and at any speed...even on start-up and on a 30MPH short urban commute....and, IMO, AMG does exhaust music better than any mfr on planet today, incl Fiat and VW....and AMG is only mfr that can brilliantly engineer V12TT exhaust notes, far more challenging than a NA V8, given inherent smoothness of V12s and muffling effects of turbos
IMO, 65 sounds much better than my prior 63....more elegantly intimidating exhaust note (and for me, best-sounding car available today)...not a fan of the raspiness of 63 note; had 600 >2 yrs ago but at time was far more impressed w/600 exhaust music than 997TT I had around that time
Def agree that exhaust note is an aspect of any car that is enjoyable daily and at any speed...even on start-up and on a 30MPH short urban commute....and, IMO, AMG does exhaust music better than any mfr on planet today, incl Fiat and VW....and AMG is only mfr that can brilliantly engineer V12TT exhaust notes, far more challenging than a NA V8, given inherent smoothness of V12s and muffling effects of turbos
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Joined: Apr 2006
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1953 Fiat Topolino
Thank you all for the responses so far to my post. Since I have a v12 motor similar to that of 'AMGDriver' and 'S600ed', it is disheartening to hear that they did NOT have much success trying to improve the exhaust sound of their MB biturbo engines. Furthermore, S600ed adds: "I'm thinking for a REAL exhaust sound from the V12 might need to remove the primary cats and not just the resonator like most would think". Has anyone attempted this with good results on a v12 biturbo motor? Is this even legal in California? It is apparent that any exhaust mod with good results is much harder to do in a v12 biturbo than in a naturally aspirated (e.g. Oliverk/Sako's S500/S550) or supercharged AMG engine (e.g. Serge's CL55). However, is there really no solution to improving the sound of a Mercedes biturbo v12? z356
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From: San Jose
CL65 AMG , white S550 Sport w/ white Giovanna 22s, wild custom chopper
Obviously you have the car and experience, but I find it very difficult to believe that without a muffler, without the resonator, the car sounded the same. The catalytic converter and the exhaust manifold are the only remaining items that are inline to the exhaust ports on the heads and those two components cannot quiet down the car significantly. However, each cylinder is smaller than the V8 cylinder counterparts, maybe that's the reason? Maybe there are more than one resonators inline on a 600? Here is a thread for an older 600:
https://mbworld.org/forums/m275-v12-...-video-hd.html
Shows before an after w/ exhaust mods.
https://mbworld.org/forums/m275-v12-...-video-hd.html
Shows before an after w/ exhaust mods.
I have the Meistershaft exhaust on my S600 and still very quiet. I got the loudest that they offer (I think its either race or GT) and its not even close to what a C63 would make. I remeber having the OEM muffler taken off at a body shop and driving to a muffler shop with NO muffler and resonator still it did not sound any louder. Its not the resonator that's making the exhaust quiet but somewhere else further up into the headers. I'm thinking for a REAL exhaust sound from the V12 might need to remove the primary cats and not just the resonator like most would think.
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Joined: Sep 2008
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2007 s600 2007 cls63
Obviously you have the car and experience, but I find it very difficult to believe that without a muffler, without the resonator, the car sounded the same. The catalytic converter and the exhaust manifold are the only remaining items that are inline to the exhaust ports on the heads and those two components cannot quiet down the car significantly. However, each cylinder is smaller than the V8 cylinder counterparts, maybe that's the reason? Maybe there are more than one resonators inline on a 600? Here is a thread for an older 600:
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Joined: Oct 2006
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From: Bellevue, WA
2009 VW CC
On my ML (V6) I ran a Brabus exhaust (axle-back) along with the deleting resonator. The key when installing an aftermarket exhaust is to "burn it in". This will produce a significantly louder tone. The procedure is simple.
After installing the exhaust, run the motor at 3-4K RPM for 10-15 minutes (I drove home from my store, about 14 miles, in 3rd gear at 65MPH -- about 3.5K RPM). This will cause the muffler to heat up and "burn in". Yes it will produce smoke -- no need to be alarmed.
I have used this procedure on several aftermarket exhausts (Brabus, Remus, Borla, etc.) and it has always made a significant difference in the sound output.
After installing the exhaust, run the motor at 3-4K RPM for 10-15 minutes (I drove home from my store, about 14 miles, in 3rd gear at 65MPH -- about 3.5K RPM). This will cause the muffler to heat up and "burn in". Yes it will produce smoke -- no need to be alarmed.
I have used this procedure on several aftermarket exhausts (Brabus, Remus, Borla, etc.) and it has always made a significant difference in the sound output.
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Joined: Sep 2006
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From: San Francisco
AMG's
You're forgetting about the turbos. Those little turbos are a huge restriction and are the best mufflers on the car.
Obviously you have the car and experience, but I find it very difficult to believe that without a muffler, without the resonator, the car sounded the same. The catalytic converter and the exhaust manifold are the only remaining items that are inline to the exhaust ports on the heads and those two components cannot quiet down the car significantly. However, each cylinder is smaller than the V8 cylinder counterparts, maybe that's the reason? Maybe there are more than one resonators inline on a 600? Here is a thread for an older 600:
https://mbworld.org/forums/m275-v12-...-video-hd.html
Shows before an after w/ exhaust mods.
https://mbworld.org/forums/m275-v12-...-video-hd.html
Shows before an after w/ exhaust mods.
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Joined: Oct 2005
Posts: 365
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From: San Jose
CL65 AMG , white S550 Sport w/ white Giovanna 22s, wild custom chopper
I am forgetting about the bi-turbo - that would explain the exhaust being quieter... I'm guessing then the stock mufflers wouldn't be very restrictive then to being with?
