snovvman

I was at a Kia dealer helping a friend find a car and sat inside a K900 (it's true, I really wasn't thinking about a Kia! ) I also have a friend who is an exec for Hyundai , so I know the Genesis pretty well.

Yes, they are half the price for a lot of content. Good warranty, but it is not the same. Having had highline cars for many years, they just fall short somehow.

Anyone with eyes can see that the Equus has been ripping off M-B for years, and many other manufactures are a rip off mishmash of M-B, BMW, and other makers.

To me, the K900's exterior is more of a Lexus/BMW ripoff, but what surprised me was the interior. The steering wheel buttons and design, as well as the seat controls are almost exact duplicates of the Benz. The shift stalk was taken from a BMW. This is probably a good way for them to save on design as well as help them compete in the market, but I find it distasteful...

alx

They do fall short a bit. But they are more than half the car the Germans are. So... That makes them an excellent value proposition. Think of it that way

snovvman

I see your point, and I agree.

Mike5215

I think the Kia is a huge value play over the Lexus in terms of content and execution, since they're very similar in those regards and you're not paying for the branding on the Kia. The issue I've found with both Lexus and Kia/Hyundai is with execution.

It's great that Kia's engineers went down the equipment list of an S Class or a 7 Series and faithfully ticked off as many boxes as possible for their car, but the devil is in the details.

If I had to sum up the driving experience and cabin feel of the Kia. Hyundai or Lexus versus the S, it would be that the S simply feels much more substantial, and seems to occupy a different tier.

DaveW68

The K900's profile and rear end scream Lexus LS. The front end looks sort of ripped off from Jaguar. The interior has a BMW-Benz-Lexus look to it.


It would be nice if the Asians had an original idea from time to time when it comes to luxury cars.

Mike5215

I dunno. When they do their own thing they come up with those terribly misproportioned new Lexus designs with the giant gaping maws, and their take on an original looking interior design on their latest stuff just looks plasticky and weird to me.

Wings of Divine

This maybe a off topic post but I want to share what I have found.

I just went to change my oil filter, engine air filter and cabin filter today,I was talk to an mechanic that my friend/neighbor knows for over 5 yrs.(he only asked for 20 bucks for change the filters plus help me checked the car inside and out).

He said that Hyundai's parts are special made that you cant find any parts in the market can fit in to a genesis or Equus,you have no choice but to go to Hyundai stealership to do maintainance,and their price is almost the same(some service higher)to a regular MB stealership.

people who bought genesis and Equus cuz its almost the same thing and half the price of a same level MB/BMW,but the maintainance gonna drain their blood.

BenzV12

Kia's chief designer is German but that doesn't have an excuse of copying details from other car makers namely from Teutons
Buying an Asian car is like buying a homage watch that looks identical to the finest SWISS MADE products

Kia or other Asian things may be even more less prone to failure or more user friendly compared to Mercedes but people are not stupid paying more that could be less reliable in long term

vantage78

If only they could do something about their branding.....K900?? Not sure many people would want to drop 50 large on a car that sounds like a robotic dog. The name change alone could net several prestige points.

Mike5215

The main difference between the Kia and the S Class is that nobody, in the entire recorded history of mankind, ever got laid because they drove a Kia.

snovvman

You certainly have a way of cutting to the point and put things in exact perspective.

Me: I drive a Benz.
Her: Oh...

Me: I drive a Kia.
Her: Oh.

You had to be there. It was all about the tone.

DaveW68

Your wording is a little confusing here, but if I understand you correctly, you're saying that the Kia could be less reliable than the MB? If that was your intention, then I have to ask you to pass that "j" over here. Hyundai/Kia compete very well with Japan now when it comes to reliability. 15-20 years ago, I'd agree with you 100%.

BenzV12

I was trying to stress on Kia or other Asian cars might be more reliable than Mercedes but Mercedes being more expensive still sells in remarkable amounts and there must be a good reason why people pay for something that might less reliable in long term ownership .
On the contrary ,I found an article about TUV stats and guess what ? MB topped in 3 different class . I will post it later

1bad540

But does anyone really want to drive a Hyundai?

Mike5215

Yeah, any current GM owner.

1bad540

Yea I guess so!!

DaveW68

I doubt that there are many new CTS, Escalade, C7 Vette, Impala, or Chevy/GMC truck owners that are wishing they bought a Hyundai instead.

Wings of Divine

I saw a lot of uber drivers in Manhattan drive Equus,I ask the experience and they said its pretty much seamless.(a lot of them used to drive a s550)

Korean cars now just like Japanese cars 40 yrs ago,they offer quality cars with 2x less the price.And during that time ppl say who want to drive a f word japanese car.Look where lexus now.

A lot of high end brand cars 2x the price of a Equus and I didn't see 2x overall performance and quality.

its common that Asian cars use this strategy to go in to a new market they are not familiar with.Maybe in 10 yrs we can see Chinese car in U.S. and I bet ppl gonna say the same thing.

DaveW68

The Equus and Genesis have taken direct aim at Lexus in grabbing market share. They are trying to do to Lexus what Lexus did to MB in the early 90's....build a similar looking and featured product and undercut the price by 20-30%. While that worked very well for Lexus....because they offered a superior dealership experience and Toyota reliability in a premium car compared to MB which was resting on its laurels with questionable reliability (especially electronics) and very few design changes over the years....it won't work as well for Hyundai as the dealership/service experience is still just Hyundai....and not a high end dealership experience.


I remember around 2005 or so that Hyundai was seriously considering opening a luxury brand called Genesis....to compete directly against Lexus...but they instead chickened out and just badged their new premium Hyundai car as a Genesis...and later introduced an even more upscale model called the Equus. The problem is that they are still have the Hyundai badge and dealer network. If the Lexus dealership network was never established, I highly doubt that they would have done nearly as well as they have if they were called Toyotas. In many markets they are still called Toyotas and don't do nearly as well as they do here and in Europe.


I really don't think MB is too worried about losing market share to Hyundai. The new Equus is a better comparison to the W220 than it is the W222....and it isn't even as solid (build wise) or provide the same kind of handling that the W220 did 15 years ago. They depreciate just as fast or even faster (percentage wise) as the S-class, even though they have proven to be very reliable. It likely would have been different if they had their own high end dealer network.

1bad540

pretty sure no one here is also considering a genesis. but if you are you will def have less problems.

Mike5215

Give them time.

Nuru

Not the CTS and vette owners, not a chance

SwineHund550

Sat in the rear of a friends K900. Total W221 knock off.

MBZSW221

I sat in both the front and rear of a K900 at the LA autoshow. Some problems,

1) It looked very boring inside

2) With rear reclining seats, they forgot to put power headrests

3) I don't think anyone will buy it.


Some positives were that the price was ok and a fair amount of toys. But if I had about
60K to spend on a big car I would definitely not get a Kia and I think that is why it does not sell.

BTW http://carbuying.jalopnik.com/surpri...900-1639626132

alx

Ehem ... With the money you saved on a Kia you can make it rain at your establishment of choice. So in short- your argument is largely invalid