Mike5215

What It Does

The Prima is an 8.1 channel powered digital amplifier and signal processor in one. It steps in between the factory amp and the car's speakers, removes the factory EQ settings, and allows precise control of all parameters on every connected speaker. (Inputs are taken from the output side of the OEM amp.) The result is a massive improvement in both power and fidelity. A total transformation of the stock Harman/Kardon system, without losing any COMAND functionality.

Note for 07-09 models, the Prima adds an Aux In.

Connections are made in the trunk between the Prima and the factory amp. Unless speakers are being upgraded it is not necessary to open any of the interior door panels. A dedicated 12v power cable must be run from the battery to the trunk along the passenger side.



The Prima installed in the cavity on the right side of the rear seatback, JL sub amp below, Cables cross to the factory amp on the left interior rear quarter.


Configuration Of The Prima's 8 channels

Front door three-way speakers (8" woofer, 4" midrange, 1" tweeter) X2 are each assigned a channel on the amp, totaling six. Rear doors two-ways (6.5" woofer, 1" tweeter)X2 are each given a single channel, using the two remaining powered channels. The unpowered subwoofer output is fed to the JL amp, which is dedicated to the main subwoofer on the rear deck. The remaining dash center channel and rear deck satellite speakers remain powered by the factory amp. All 12 channels of the OEM system are maintained.

Configuration of the 221 door and subwoofer speakers on the Prima:






Tuning

The advantage of the Prima is that it first digitizes the incoming audio signals from the factory amp. Once idigitized, it can be manipulated extensively in real time by a powerful onboard processor. First, it analyzes the factory EQ. This is handled by playing an audio track on the included CD in the car. The Prima "listens" and then it has a reference point for how the factory EQ is affecting the sound. It then creates a convolution filter, essentially an EQ curve that is the mirror opposite of the factory curve. The two curves cancel each other out, resulting in a perfectly "flat" signal.

Because the signal is digital at this stage, it can be adjusted electronically. Each channel can be configured for level, equalization, cross-over (hi pass, low pass, band pass or full range), phase and time-correction (delay). On the 221's front speakers, each tweeter, midrange and woofer has its own dedicated channel and can be adjusted independently. The result is a veritable arsenal of digital signal processing power that gives you enormous flexibility in tuning.

For tuning, the Prima connects to any Windows laptop via a standard USB cable. The Audison software with a straightforward graphical interface (provided) is then used to precisely control and shape the sound. (If you're not experienced with audio processing, a complete W221 specific tune is provided as a .zip file below. Unzip it to your desktop, start the Audison software, connect to the Prima and load the tune. Tell Prima to finalize and my tune is now yours. Note that my tune assumes you're configured as I am, with active front door three ways, passive rear door two ways, and a separate subwoofer amp.)

As with any software, Prima tuning configurations can be saved as a file on your laptop and you can experiment freely once your "safe" tune has been saved.

Typical tuning screen, this one is affecting the left front door woofer:





My tune will vary on a stock system. I have Focal midrange/tweeters in the front doors and Hertz 6.5" component speakers in the rear doors. Also, my door interiors have sound deadening applied, as does my rear deck. But it should be close.

Performance

Excellent. Gorgeous. Pick your own adjectives. More clean power than you'll ever want. Beautiful, clear, crisp, rich sound with terrific detail and depth. Powerful low-end bass. Drums come alive. The Prima transforms the Harman/Kardon into a high end audio system worthy of the S Class. For me it's not just an audio upgrade...it upgrades the entire S Class driving experience, which was pretty f-ing awesome to begin with.

Upgrade Path

I would recommend the Prima as your first phase. A lot of the shortcomings in the factory HK system can be overcome without replacing any speakers. If speakers do need replacing, start with the front door midrange and tweeter sets (4" mid-woofer and 1" silk dome tweeter), and then the rear door components (6.5" woofer and 1" silk dome tweeter).

Cost: Prima 8.9 DSP Amp $950, JL 300 Watt Subwoofer Amp $350, Labor $600 (Professional install highly recommended) Optional: Vehicle specific plug and play AP T-Harness “DCC” for connecting the factory amp to the Prima, $700, but will drastically reduce labor.

Post any questions...

REL_

Why didn't you just use a JBL MS-8? How much louder is it compared to stock?

Mike5215

Honestly the Prima was exactly what I was looking for and I didn't give the purchase much more contemplation than that. Regardless of the OEM integration unit you choose (and there are several out there) you're still dealing with a time consuming install with a lot of wire runs and splices so I'd rather spend an extra hundred bucks and have no regrets.

The JBL is almost as expensive, but less powerful than the Prima by 15 watts per channel, x 8 = a 120 watt deficiency.

I have upgraded speakers that need all they can get, but for stock speakers the JBL might be plenty.

Primas Windows control interface means no clunky external controller mounted in the cabin like the JBL needs. Just overall the Audison is a more refined, more powerful piece, but if money was an issue and you didn't mind having to mount an external controller somewhere, I think the JBL would probably give satisfactory results, and yes the Prima, plus an outboard sub amp, is quite a bit louder than stock.

Do you have an MS 8 in your S (or another car)?

Mike5215

Just finished my first long distance run with the new audio. Holy crap it's like a different car. Highly recommend this mod if you love quality sound on the road.

Ditto on the new Apple Music service.

I can't compare it to the BO system but I spent a good deal of time in a 222 and I'd take mine over the Burmester hands down.

REL_

JBL ms-8 could be had for about $450 but it's about half the wattage of the Prima which goes for about $749.

I think I'd be better off just getting the Prima with different front/rear speakers. No need to add an aftermarket amp.

Do you know if the stock speakers run at 4 or 2 ohms?

My main goal is to make the sound louder since stock is too low for my liking, what subwoofer to you have on that 300 watt JL and how does it sound?

Mike5215

Stock speakers are all 4 ohm. I have the 300 watt JL amp driving the factory subwoofer speaker on the rear deck, but the signal is processed thru the Prima so I was able to tune it to hit and stay tight.

I'd do the Prima before the door speakers (might save you cracking open the doors) because once the factory EQ is cleaned up and you can bypass the OEM systems pathetic volume limits you may be happy with the additional volume without new speakers.

Mike5215

I've gotten a few PMs with questions that I've addressed personally and I'll cover here in greater detail. A disclaimer, I am not affiliated with any audio company or installer shops. I'm your run of the mill audiophile guy who happens to drive a 221.

From your questions, clearly owners feel there is a lack of volume in the stock system. The Prima as I have it configured, plus the little 300 watt sub amp, is loud as f*ck. I've played drums in rock bands professionally and for fun since I was 16. Trust me when I tell you I know "loud". Also, I'm probably half deaf from playing drums and the Prima is still louder than than I'd want to listen to for protracted periods.

However, I can get you more volume, or at least the perception of more volume, by adding a powered sub amp and a subwoofer box in the trunk. If tonally you like the H&K system but want more *****, save your money and go the subwoofer in the trunk route. The Prima's real advantage is the digital signal processing and the ability to precisely shape the sound, but the power boost is a nice side benefit.

Tuning The 221

There's some technical stuff that may not be familiar here, however if anyone actually does this mod and wants this tune, the entire configuration can be sent to you as an email attachment and loaded to your car with a mouse click.

I start at the bottom, literally, and work my way up, beginning with the bass or "kick" drum. I want it hear it distinctly rather than it being mixed into a lot of bass and midbass slop, and I want to physically feel it "hit". Here's the sub's tuning. It's cut off very low at 50hz (meaning nothing over 50hz gets to it) Human hearing begins roughly at 20hz on the low end. A 50hz cut off allows almost nothing but kick drum in the subwoofer. As a result I can keep it very clean, powerful and distinct without boominess. A little EQ to emphasize the "hit".




Next I want the bass guitar (or low octave keys and synths) to be heard so that I can pick out the actual bass player's performance in the mix. The front door subwoofers get a band pass filter and play a range between 80hz and 800hz. Some EQ was used to beef up the 50hz to 200hz range. Although the 50hz range is actually below the 80hz the band pass filter is set to, there is a 12db roll off between bands so some lower stuff does sneak in there.





The rear doors are actually the only "full range" speakers in the car, but I just wanted them mainly for midbass reinforcement. They start out fairly low at 100hz and play all the way up to 20,000 htz (the theoretical high frequency limit of human hearing) but they're equalized to push the midbass and kill most of the mids and highs. I could have cut them off on the high end way sooner but I want a little bit out of the tweeters for ambiance.





Between the rear deck sub, the front door subs and the rear door components the bottom end is taken care of. Next is the midrange.

The midrange is where most of the melodic instruments (guitar, keys etc) and vocals are. If it's not represented well, performances will sound flat and lifeless. If it's too hot, the lead guitar, horns, higher octave synth and vocals will sound brassy and harsh. Because of the limit on available powered channels, four speakers bypass the Prima and remain on the factory amp (a mid and a tweet in the dash, two 4" mids on the rear shelf.)All of those speakers play in the midrange. Those 4 speakers form the surround circuit for the Logic 7 multichannel synthesizer. With Logic 7 activated in surround mode, signal is boosted to the center dash and rear surrounds. This brightens up the mids and also lifts the soundstage, so their is plenty of mid in the car and it became more an issue of controlling it.

The mids in the front doors are band pass filtered from a relatively high 800hz right up to the 3000hz point, where the tweeters begin, but their volume level is decreased by -7.5db. That gave me the presence I was looking for but the 7.5db attenuation pushed the harshness down.





The tweeters pick up everything north of 3000 hz up to 20000 hz. I have Focal tweeters that are a little aggressive so they're pushed down 3db as well. The tweets are almost all cymbal sound.




When I'm fine tuning my logical frame of reference is the drum performance, since I know what drums sound like live and in the studio. It actually works out, since drums have the greatest dynamic range (soft vs loud) and they play across the frequency spectrum with the bass drum at the low end and the cymbals at the high, with the snare and toms filling out what's in between. I've found that once the drums are "right", the other instruments also sound right as well.

So there's the tuning rationale. Keep the questions coming!

stephenhacker23

Hey Mike - I have a 2007 CLS550 (W219) with the stock HK7 system - looking to upgrade it and get some more overall power but not looking for a ghetto blasting system. Do you still think the Prima 8.1 or 8.9 is a good fit? Will I get a big boost if I get this amp alone with the stock system or do you recommend further upgrades. Thanks!

Mike5215

I'm not super familiar with the CLS/E Class Harman/Kardon in terms of the speaker array or whether they use an external amp in the trunk like the S/CL does. If the setup is similar to the S/CL I'd highly recommend the Prima 8.9. Not a massively powerful unit but very clean and tons of tuning capabilities.

Here's a link to a dealer locator in the US for Audison:

http://www.elettromedia-usa.com/dealer-locator

This is a link to high end installers:

http://mespecialists.com/locate-specialist/

stephenhacker23

Ive found someone selling it. BRand new for $900. The 8.9 prima. Apparently the one stock amp powers all the door speakers and the shelf mounted Sub. Effectively how would you describe what the amp will do for the entire sound system if tuned right? The car is the 07 CLS w219 with the HK logic 7 sound system. Thanka!!!!

Mike5215

Well, $900 is full retail and most shops won't install gear bought elsewhere, so it might be better to find the shop first. Then if they blow it up you get another one.

The Prima allows you to defeat the factory EQ and tune the system to your liking. It's a tough install and the config and tuning is not DIY unless you've worked with a DSP amp before.

I'd find a good shop and start there.

stephenhacker23

i think I've found one, audio logic in hollywood, fl. they're a dealer for audison. I was talking to a tech there and he was telling me the output won't get much louder with this amp but i told him i heard otherwise. any ballpark as to what kind of price should be fair for install? i won't hold u to it!

Mike5215

If yours is their first CLS at least 8 hours. My shop actually had over 20 in it but charged me less. Around $600.

You'll have more power. A lot of that is just unleashing the speakers from a very restrictive EQ, especially in the woofers and sub.

My shop is up the road from you in Gainesville. Sound Depot Performance. Might be worth the trip.

stephenhacker23

Well this is the first upgrade I'd be making to the cars audio. Would you recommend this amp versus getting a sub in a box and another amp? Just wondering the pluses of doing a set up with this amp versus something else?

Mike5215

Depends on which deficiencies you're trying to correct. If it's not enough bass, do a sub in the trunk. Otherwise you'll need a DSP amp of some sort to overcome the factory EQ and crossovers.

stephenhacker23

Right on. But will this amp make an immediate difference in the existing Benz sub and make it punchier?

Mike5215

It's sort of a whole system transformation. I don't know what the CLS has for a factory sub, or what else it has in the cabin. Figure that out and post back. I have no idea what you're working with stock.

stephenhacker23

Modular COMAND Cockpit Management and Data system integrates: AM/FM stereo/weatherband radio, a single-CD player and a large color-LCD screen. Controls for standard in-dash 6-disc CD changer and phone. 10 mode-dependent soft keys alongside screen for easy access to commands and menus.
harman/kardon® LOGIC7® digital surround-sound system with 12 speakers (including dual surround speakers) plus a subwoofer, 7.1-channel amplifier, multichannel digital surround-sound technology4 and Digital Dynamic Volume Control.
Fiber-optic network offers precise, high-speed communication among components and includes factory preparation for optional 6-disc CD changer and phone, and SIRIUS Satellite Radio5 prewiring.

Mike5215

Sounds similar to the W221. Any idea what's in the front doors? Take a pic of the speaker grille. You're looking for the 8" dual voice coil subwoofers. They'll show a little bit of metal if you shine a light into the grille. If you have those the Prima would be the way to go.

stephenhacker23

I got this info from MB Corporate about the factory system:

8 40watt in door speakers

1 40watt center fill in the dash

1 70watt subwoofer rear shelf

2 25watt surround speakers

4 channel Amplifier 510 watt

Mike5215

I believe what the 07 CLS actually gets are (4) 6" Alumaprene woofers (one in each door), two silk dome tweeters (front door mirror sail panels), a 3" Alumaprene center, and a combo sub/rear surround module in the rear deck with an 8" shallow mount dual coil sub and two 4" surrounds. (This is the same sub the 221 gets in each front door and they hit like sledgehammers once they're tuned)

You can see the actual speakers if you go on Ebay and search 2007 CLS Speakers. Tons on there.

The Alumaprene 6" aren't great. I'd replace those with some inexpensive Hertz DSK 2 way components in the front doors and coaxial in the rear doors. Much warmer and not power hogs. Or Focals if the budget permits.

The rest of the speakers I'd leave alone. On the Prima's eight powered channels I'd go:

1) Left front door woofer (active X over)
2) Left front door tweeter (active X over)

3) Right front door woofer (active X over)
4) Right front door tweeter (active X over)

5) Left rear door coaxial (or component, passive)
6) Right rear door coaxial (" " ")

7/8 Bridged to rear deck sub

The unpowered 9th sub out channel could be used to feed a trunk box sub/amp if necessary although you may not need it.

I'd leave the center dash and rear surrounds on the factory amp.

You could also go:

1) Left front door 2 way passive
2) Center
3) Right front door 2 way passive
4) Right rear door 2 way passive
5) Right rear deck surround
6) Left rear deck surround
7) Left rear door 2 way passive
8) Unused
9) Sub out to outboard amp, to rear deck sub

I'd prefer going two-way active up front for the extra power and the tuning flexibility and then bridging two channels to 70 watts for the rear deck sub. I'd leave the center and rear surrounds on the factory amp and use the Prima to blend them in. That's the set-up I had in my 221.

I think you'd find that system a huge step up over stock.




SUB & SURROUND MODULE



CENTER DASH



6" DOOR WOOFER

stephenhacker23

Are these the Hertz you're referring to that would fit the doors?

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...Q&gclsrc=aw.ds

Mike5215

Them are those, but only if you're doing the Prima. On the factory amp/eq you may as well keep the stock.

stephenhacker23

ALL I CAN SAY U R DA MAN.

Got a link to the ones you're suggesting for rear doors. Cant wait to get the system done up right as you've suggested.

ItalianJoe1

What about on a 215? This info is great, and I feel if you could do as you say, and gain full control over the stock stuff/take the stock equalizer out of the equation, it would sound much better. I have the factory Bose system, and it's not bad but could be so much better I think.