JJKCMO

Good afternoon.

I like interesting vehicles and a V12 MB has long since seemed like the best way to dip my toe into the V12 world. I am going to inspect a 2007 S600 designo white sometime this week and I would like to know if there are any good resources on inspecting the vehicle. It is at an out-of-state dealer, so I am somewhat hesitant to do a PPI at a shop which may not want to upset the dealer, so I would love some advice on what to look for myself.

I would also like some advice on the best value for a Xentry/STAR tool to be able to do an in-depth scan of the vehicle, looking not only at any current codes (I have been told there are not any) but at any codes that were previously erased.

Finally, I would love if someone could do a VMI on the VIN: WDDNG76X87A115812

Pics here, if anyone cares: https://apps.auction123.com/ImageVie...=4015721&sID=0

MBCO

Where is car located? Perhaps a nearby member with DAS MB STAR unit could assess and report to you the codes you describe. The vmi can be a dealer only source. The 3 near me will not give it to me but if I purchased a ppi they would include it. They hide behind “proprietary and confidential “ crap. Nice looking Sclass good luck.

BOTUS

if you want to spend more time fixing than driving, own online xentry, and like to spend more on repairs each year than buying a house - you'll get on just fine

BOTUS

lease a brand new one, it'll be far cheaper and slightly better

DaleB

I did what you're contemplating, a little over a year ago. And I will say that while our cheerful friend @BOTUS might be a little off on his calculations... it's not a cheap undertaking. Of course mine turned out to have some, well, let's say "deferred maintenance items" that were not obvious until I had already bought it. Maybe a scan would have found them, maybe not. For what I've spent on parts and service work since I bought it, I could have bought an S65 a couple of years newer. Of course there's no guarantee that wouldn't have had the same number of problems.

A happy medium would be to buy something a couple-few years newer, and buy an extended warranty for it. Yes, that are painfully expensive. There is a significant chance, though, that you could get your money's worth out of it. I do all my own work, with the sole exception of a trip to the dealer to have the intercooler circuit vacuum bled. I've still spent enough on parts to have paid for an extended warranty, so chalk that up to lessons learned.

On a 2007, you're going to be dealing with rubber and plastic parts under the hood that are old enough to be unserviceable. Parts aren't really expensive, but be prepared to do it yourself (also not difficult) or pay someone very generously to do it for you.

Were I to do it over again, I'd buy a 2010 or newer and get an extended warranty. More expensive? Well, the initial purchase will hurt a little more, but in the end you'll probably come out about the same IF you turn your own wrenches. If you don't, then the newer car will likely work out better for you.

Now, how about that brand new lease deal? Figure it will cost you about the same as buying an older S600... the first year. And that assumes you don't live in Nebraska, where putting plates on a $100K-plus car will cost you a couple of house payments. The next couple of years you'll pay for your old used S600 again, and then you get to give it back to the dealer and do it all over again. As for me, I'll drive the '07 and retire a few years earlier, thanks.

JJKCMO

I appreciate the warnings on a used V12 Benz.

This one is a 2 owner and appears to be in great cosmetic shape. I think only a careful individual buys a car with a white interior, but I am aware that it only takes 1 owner neglecting maintenance for a year or so to cause serious issues. I have been looking for a couple of years now, been outbid on Bring-A-Trailer 5 or 6 times, and stumbled on this one.

I like to "collect" unusual and/or fun cars that are already depreciated and I like to turn my own wrenches. I am prepared for brake jobs at $1500/axle, motor and transmission mounts every few years, ABC issues if not properly serviced, and plug/coil/ignition replacements, what I am hoping to avoid are hidden issues. With that in mind, I want to be able to scan to see what codes have been erased and what services have been performed.

Thank you all for the advice.

DaleB

If you like to do your own work, then it's not *as* bad. You'll likely have plenty of opportunities to learn, and that's rewarding in its own right. Just know that it's going to be an expensive beast to own and maintain, and pay accordingly. Good luck to you!

WHPH28

I'm on my 2nd v12, 3rd S class. Brake jobs are definitely no where near 1500/axle...if you can't do DIY, find a good independent mechanic. Akebono ceramics front and rear are around 150.00 total and if you need rotors, they will run anywhere from 50.00-150.00 depending on the brand you decide on. They have been the most reliable cars I have owned with 2000 mile+ round trips with absolutely 0 problems and no worries. I buy all of my cars usually 1000+ miles away and as crazy as it sounds, I have never done a PPI. I find them online, drill the owner, and ask for pics/videos. I fly out, do my own thorough inspection and drive it pretty hard on the test drive. I buy it, drive it straight back and it's worked out the last 10+ times.

lots of bug juice on the front after a silky smooth 1000+ mile one way trip.

pmercury

iTrader: (2)

I'm here if anyone needs help on the best available Xentry

BOTUS

it can look and be as new you'll get the exact same issues as a dog that's been abused...
its designed in obsolescence at manufacture, illegal and outrageous, but u aren't going to stop them.... you can buy into the fun - but do with EYES WIDE OPEN and a very full wallet
this is why leasing NOW makes so much sense

EasyPhil

It really comes down to money and your mechanical aptitude. If you aren't into fixing your own car and have limited money, you should probably not be looking into a used 221.

EasyPhil

This is the W221 forum, any one asking questions here probably do not want to drop the kind of money required to lease a brand new W222.

vettebk

Just my two cents. I bought a 2007 V12 for the same reasons you are thinking about it. Found a nice one that had been an Embassy car with 55K miles and bought a 60K four more year warranty $100 deductible. Did PPI at my Indie. ABC needed some work, new battery both front and back, new radiator, new motor and trans mounts, new brake pads front and rear, and general maintenance. It cost me about $7K to bring it back using MBUSA and the warranty covered about $5K. I love the car. Great highway cruiser. Very fast. Would do it again in a minute.

JJKCMO

Thank you for the input.

I have no illusions about the maintenance and service requirements on these cars. The car is $24,000 and we can afford to walk away from it (don't want to, but can afford it) if it turns out to be a lemon. I'm just trying to make sure I don't get a lemon. Losing $24,000 would hurt, but not like it would if I bought one for $50,000, just out of warranty, and got burned the same way.

I got service records today and the car was maintained per the schedule at 2 dealers. Prior owners (2) even bought their tires at the dealer. That seems to be a good start.

The car will be used for road trips and for my wife's commute when it gets cold and the doors and top go back on the Wrangler, but not when there is snow or ice on the ground - the Wrangler does that dance.

Our CTS-V wagon currently fills this role in our lives. It is fun and blisteringly fast, but the interior on our V70R is better, IMO, and the R wagon is pretty damn fast as well. Our R wagon may have 220,000 miles, but it still pulls hard on the original drivetrain and turbo. The resale is ~$5,000, so I might as well keep it and sell the V-wagon. The Exige is a DD when it is dry and the temp is over 40 degrees, so figure ~5,000 miles on the S600 per year. Hopefully that results in less than $12,000 in total repairs/maintenance on what I figure will be a 2 year ownership.

BOTUS

even if I had $50 million lottery win I'd not get any Mercedes ever again...
they are NOT drivers cars or remotely reliable and the inside is a tacky vulgar mess these days
if you have too much money lease an M5 if you get how the world moved on buy a cheap USA muscle car or get a toyota

DaleB

So why, then, have you not done so already? If I hated my Benz as much as you do I'd have set fire to it and pushed it off a cliff by now.

lionsfan54

Can you post the VMI here? We can look it over and see if the big ticket items have been addressed. That price seems high for an '07. I have an '07 that is FULLY sorted with 102k on the clock that I'd let go for a lot less than that.

Re the PPI. I'd walk away from anyone that pushed back on a PPI. When I got my W221 the dealer was more than happy to take it to the local Mercedes dealership for me and then pick it up (I paid via credit card to the dealer). These aren't so rare that you can't find another one if this dealer is being a *****.

DaleB

That does seem awfully high for an '07 S600. I paid less than that for one with much lower mileage (under 49K) over a year ago. It was not, however, Designo Mystic White with a porcelain interior... those seem to be bringing a premium price. If you don't mind silver or black, you can spend a whole lot less. I don't think I'd pay that kind of premium, personally... but it's a personal choice of course. We should assume the OP has looked at the alternatives...

Myself, I would put very little weight on service history. The service history on mine looked great, with regular visits to reputable dealers in large cities for factory recommended maintenance and upkeep. None of that meant diddly. I'd have caught some of the items if I knew then what I know now, but not all of them. Next time (and there probably will be a next time) I have a long list of things to check that I didn't know about before.

lionsfan54

I disagree about not putting any weight into service history. In many cases, the parts that have been replaced are better than the original. For example, if you saw that the trans plug was replaced you can reference the part number and see it's the new, upgraded design with triple O rings. Give me a huge stack of service receipts and a 20 page VMI every time please!

JJKCMO

My wife likes the white interior without the diamond stitching that was used after 2007. That may seem silly, but it is a small ask when we already have twice as many cars as drivers and we are renting one of our neighbor's garage spaces so they aren't outside. I've also tried to avoid black cars since they only look clean for 5 minutes.

There is definitely a premium for V12s that are not black or some form of silver. A white/white 2007 S65 designo just closed at $38,500 on Bring-A-Trailer: https://bringatrailer.com/listing/20...nz-s65-amg-27/ A few months earlier, a 08 white/white S65 went for $35,750: https://bringatrailer.com/listing/20...nz-s65-amg-11/ It would appear that S65/S600 colors other than black/silver/grey bring a $3,000 - $5,000 premium based on those auction results, with designo interiors bringing a similar premium.

With respect to service history, it is clearly important to choosing a car to have inspected because good service history indicates a car that was at least taken care of per the manufacturer's recommendations. It may still have issues, but all other things being equal, I'm sure everyone here wants a properly maintained and documented vehicle as opposed to one without. It does not represent a guarantee, but it beats the alternative.

Used luxury cars often get purchased by folks stretching their budgets who then get hit with higher insurance and fuel costs and suddenly have no money to keep up with maintenance. Then something breaks, they take it to the dealer, get told it needs a $1,500 fix to run and drive and $7,500 in deferred maintenance in the next few months, and they turn around and trade it in to a dealer that will give them the auction value for it. A sketchy dealer can take a neglected car with no service history, replace all the fluids and consumables and then claim "all services recently performed," show buyers the shiny fluids to reassure them, but the car might still have a few dozen ticking time bombs from years of neglect.

I'll have my paint meter, snake camera, and a good flashlight with me and I'll take it to a dealer for the PPI, but I'd still love for anyone to give me any other tips or things to look for.

lionsfan54

I'd be very cautious price comp'ing S600s to S65s. They really are very different cars

lionsfan54

My car is Andorite Gray Metallic which looks kind of blue. Maybe I should list it for $23k?

DaleB

Good luck with that! Mine's Andorite also. It looks more silver or more blue depending on the light. The nice thing is, it seems to be invisible to highway patrolmen.

BOTUS

because once you have bought one of these bits of rubbish its totally worthless, as those in the know wouldn't touch them for free...

to buy what I want is 100k and I only do 4k miles and in a sick way, I'm trying to see just how crap and expensive to run it really is... when you think you've been nice, pampered it, wasted more on some frivolous and not really needed maintenance the greedy **** just steals another few thousand K.... its like a chimpanzee - drives like one too

JJKCMO

I had to walk from the car. There were a number of concerns once I inspected it, the largest being my paint thickness meter which appeared to show a repainted rear quarter, blended into the rear passenger door. I was willing to pay a premium for the right car, this wasn't it. Lost a day of my time and $500 in airfare, but that is how it goes - first time I've walked from a car I flew into inspect.

Onto the next one. Have my mind set on a V12 sedan, so that means S600, S65, Rapide, or Flying Spur. No, the 7 series doesn't count. The S600 is on the lower end of those, but still competes well, especially with tech when compared to the Rapide and Flying Spur, while those have superior interior materials by any measure.


Cheers.