I am looking at a 2009 S600. The car's appearance and interior are in great shape and the car has under 50k miles. It is hard to find a car in that shape. It rides and drives well. The seller has the car priced $5k or more above book value and well above what it is probably worth, but I am willing to pay for a car in that shape. If it is the car I want, I don't mind getting a "bad deal" as long as it is sorted.

Here is my concern - It appears there have been a string of problems with the car. The seller recently replaced the motor mounts and an ABC line. He called me today and told me he is going to replace the ABC pump now so it won't be available for a few days. Nothing appeared wrong with the ABC when I drove it Saturday.

I looked at the car on a lift and took off the bottom engine cover. The car also has a some oil on the drivers side of the engine and on the inside of the engine cover. Seller said he thinks it is residual oil from the ABC line he changed, but it looks like motor oil to me, possibly from a line going to the turbo.

The seller is fixing all the problems he finds and I am going to have an MB dealer look it over, but with so many small mechanical problems I am wondering if I should just pass on it. Am I better off just moving on and saving $200 on a PPI?

What do you think?

 

Why in heaven's name would you take a "bad deal" no matter what? It's not like these cars are rare by any means. You'll need that $5K for repairs, quite possibly early on when you find out what other problems are lurking that you didn't know to look for. Need I tell you how I know this?

Definitely, without doubt, pay for the PPI and listen to what they say. Oil on the side of the engine is most likely a seeping valve cover gasket. No big deal, right? Except that will pool oil around the spark plugs, which can cause arcing and fry a coil pack and possibly other parts. A $15 gasket is no big deal, but budget a couple hours labor to replace it, minimum. The ABC pump is bloody expensive, as is replacing it, unless the guy buys a cheap rebuild -- those are available, and I don't think I would trust one for more than the time it takes to sell the car, if you know what I mean.

There may be such a thing as a "sorted" S600, but smart money says that's not what you're looking at right now. As the last mechanic to look at mine observed... "Nobody sells one of these because they don't like it. They sell them because they're f***ing broken". "Sorted", when you're talking about an S600, has a very short shelf life. ANY car with under 50K miles will look great, especially one that retailed for well north of $125K when it was new. And there are good reasons you can buy them for 15-20% of that retail now. They are awesome cars, and worth the trouble and expense, but you have to go in with eyes wide open. Nothing wrong with buying a car that will eat you out of house and home, if you're willing to put up with the repairs -- as long as you know up front what you're getting into and pay accordingly. And even a really good S600 that old is going to require a lot of maintenance.

So, my advice: Get the PPI. Take the result into consideration. It's a pretty sure bet that the seller needs to dump that thing way worse than you need to buy it, so use that to your advantage. Put any money saved on the purchase toward a maintenance budget, or an "extended warranty" that covers things like ABC and ignition electronic components, if such a thing exists.

 

So, my two cents, based on 2+ years of ownership of a 2007 S600 now with 72K miles. I bought it at 55K miles. Sound familiar.

I paid for a PPI. Was warned about coil packs and ABC. Took on the liability. Had the ABC redone by Mercedes and since then a radiator, front lower control arms, consumer battery, starter battery, engine mounts, brake pads, and tons of little plastic pieces that wear out after ten years. Total maintenance expenses over two years - about $7500. About $5K of that was recovered from a warranty I picked up on the purchase date. Warranty still has a few years left but they are very arbitrary about coverage. Having said all that, I love it and would do it again in a heart beat. The S600 is the finest example of automobile technology on the planet. The ABC system, once properly maintained, is fine if you change the fluid and filter every 20K miles. Part of the deal. Mine was quite dirty on purchase.

Offer the guy $5K less than what he is asking. It won't sell so fast. Not with leaks of engine oil and ABC fluid. And if he won't take $5K less, walk away. You can always come back and offer him $4K less in a week or so.

 

Thanks for the advice. I am very demoralized as I search for a replacement for my 2007 S65 that was rear ended.

Finding a V12 car with under 50k miles, that is not black or silver, has a like new interior and near-perfect paint is very hard, especially if you don't want to tour the country looking at them. Right now there are about 5 V12 W221s nation wide on sites like autotrader that are not black or silver and have under 50k miles. Yeah if you are willing to buy a higher mile car or a black car or accept a well worn interior they are easy to find. But I don't want that and I am willing to pay more and more than the car is "worth" because of it. I can overpay for the right car but I can't overpay for one and then cough up another $5k for repairs.

People regularly get rid of these cars when they buy a newer vehicle or upgrade, so the idea that every car for sale has problems is bogus. I bought my S65 in 2016 and it had no problems until a Chevy Tahoe tried to fit itself into the trunk last month. If the seller wanted to dump it he would lower the price, the fact that he has it at $31k indicates he is trying to get top dollar, not trying to dump it. That doesn't mean he isn't shady but neither am I going to assume he is shady.

I would not consider buying a high price car without a PPI. But the PPI itself is not free. I was looking at another last month, I spent $300 on a PPI which found a leaking turbo, a leaking rear seal and a bad control arm bushing. $8k at the MB dealer, but the seller would not budge on price even after I showed him the estimate. Sure the PPI saved me a $35k mistake, but it cost me $300 and I still have no car. That is my question, should I just skip the PPI and wait for another car.

 

I had almost no problems with my S65 for 4 years. The only failure I had was a starter battery that cost me about $200. I also replaced the top bushing on one of the front struts for like $20 but probably did not really have to. I cracked 3 rims on potholes (not counting the two that cracked in the accident that totaled it). After that I only did regular maintenance. 8 oil changes (I change every 6 months), 1 transmission fluid change, brake job and flush, air filters, spark plugs, cabin air filters, changed the engine coolant twice (the second time 8 days before being totaled) and 1 set of tires. I did all of that myself, I don't know the total, but I am guessing is $6k in parts, with half of that being brakes and tires.

I already offered him $2k less than he is asking and he turned his nose up at it. I had to put it up on a lift and take the cover off to see the oil leak. I did not see any leaking ABC fluid, the seller just claimed the oil was probably from the ABC hose he had replaced. Unless someone else does that or gets a PPI, they are not going to see the leak.

 

That's a call only you can make, but I would never advise skipping the PPI and buying the car. You had great luck with your last S600... for, what, eight months or so? Great, but that's an extended test drive. And maybe it would have gone another few years without major issues. Or maybe not.

I hear you on the issue of finding what you want where you want it. I had to fly to Chicago to get mine. Fortunately my son was there for his work and checked out several of them before I made the trip. But yeah. I'm in Omaha. There are exactly zero S600/S65/S632 for sale within reasonable distance of me. I have the same problem with several other cars I'm looking at. You just won't find, for example, an XJL or a 750i anywhere near here. If you live in Florida or somewhere up on the east coast, you're in luck. Here in BFE, "selection" means "travel". I have noticed, though, that inventory fluctuates greatly with seasons. Once winter hits it seems like you see a lot more variety in rear wheel drive cars up for sale.

And don't misinterpret what I said as me saying there is no such thing as a good S600 for sale. I'm just saying don't trust anyone selling one, or trust how it looks or feels or drives. The car can seem absolutely perfect when you drive it or crawl under it, and still have some pretty major issues. Don't skip the PPI unless you're skipping the car. I think the cost and hassle of the PPI is just what you have to resign yourself to having to sacrifice sometimes.

 

I guess I've been crazy lucky. 2nd S600, no issues and I drive them on very long road trips quite a bit. Just came back from one. Always fly to get the cars (usually FL garage queens) and drive it straight back 1000+ miles with not 1 problem and have never flown and came back with out buying.
Never had a PPI on any car, just my preference and I always do my own thorough checks and my gut has never led me wrong, yet. I do ask for videos and pics of every single thing I want to see before I fly out from the door jams and inside of the exhaust pipes, to engine bay, underneath, etc. If you don't know everything to look for or what you're looking at, then a PPI may be right for you.

Good luck with your search.

Call me crazy but I ask for pics of inside of exhaust tips because someone who is like me and keeps the inside and parts of the car that can not be seen clean, is my kind of car person.

 

I would never skip the PPI. Saving $200-$300 by skipping the PPI will only result in you finding out the hard way. I think the PPI is insurance and as such it is a sunk cost never to be seen again. Now I don't think I would do 5 PPIs on 5 different cars even if you could find 5 good candidates, but I would certainly do up to 2.

My 2007 S600 is black with the tan Designo interior and I am very happy with it. I think these cars are very good platforms for long term service with good maintenance. Good Luck and let us know what you decide to do.

 

Using KBB is a waste of time. Do comp research on selling websites like bringatrailer.com etc. Also, I'd tend to ignore miles. I want the one with the most documented service, low miles or not. If that's a turbo line it could be a very expensive repair

 

I feel your pain on the wheels and potholes. I hit a pothole in DC and destroyed the tire and the rim on the infamous Whitehurst Freeway. I called MB and the parts guy said the 19" rim was $800 and had a core charge of $80. I told him I didn't want the fancy gold wheel, I just wanted an OEM rim for my S600. He said that was it. After Tirerack for a new Michilin PS3 and the MB dealer for the rim, and the mounting; I was in for well over $1200. I complained to the DC Govt and they said fill out a form. And eight months later I got a check in the mail for $1100. Couldn't believe my luck. Wanted to go buy a lottery ticket. But I raised the pressure in each tire to 35/37 cold so the next pothole might be survivable. I think low pressure in a low profile tire is death to the rim.

Good luck on the purchase decision. Whatever you decide, it is only money. Let us know what you do.

 

Thanks for all the help and suggestions.

I think people got the wrong idea on my question. I was not asking if I should skip the PPI and buy the car without doing a PPI, I would not do that.

I was asking if I should skip this particular car altogether and look for another one .... and by doing so keep from paying for a "wasted" PPI.

 

I got that... after I had replied thinking otherwise. So let's start from scratch. I would be a little leery of a car with an extensive history of non-maintenance repairs. Maybe the current owner is just really, really picky. Maybe he just takes some sort of perverse pleasure in expending huge sums on repairs (I've seen it). Or maybe it's a big, fat, beautiful lemon.

Is the seller the original owner, second, or third? If there were previous owners, how frequent and substantial were repairs while the first owner(s) had it? Tat could give you a clue or two.

 

I do agree that service is important, but I don't think you can ignore miles for two reasons. First miles tend to show up on the driver's seat and steering wheel regardless of how well the car is maintained. A car with 100k miles is going to show substantial wear on the drivers seat unless it was driven by a 80-pound little person and the steering wheel will usually show wear as well. Nothing wrong with that, but I am looking for a car that is close to new in that regard (and that is part of why I am willing to pay more).

Second things like seals wear out and that really isn't a function of service. Nothing you are going to do in terms of service is going to keep the rear engine seal, or a valve gasket or the aforementioned turbo line from wearing out and leaking. The type of driving you do and wear you live may play a part (short trips with repeated hot-cold cycles in very cold weather for example) but I don't think keeping your car serviced is going to help a lot there.

 

Regarding PPI's; I paid a MB dealership over $400 a couple years back for a pre-purchase inspection and they checked the little boxes on a checklist to indicate things were tested as working fine, that were not. They stole the nice clean mint condition floor mats out of the car and replaced them with old, dirty, worn out floor mats. This car looked like it was born yesterday inside and out, which was one reason I'd bought the car. So really it was a POST purchase inspection; I was hoping they would shed light on what was needed to get brake lights and tail lights to work again. That's what that dealership thought I was: born yesterday. $440 to park the car, pretend they inspected it, and steal my floor mats! I demanded they replace the floor mats which they called me a liar about; finally they gave in and ordered me the correct set for the car, new from Germany. They offered to do the inspection over again, and advised that the issue of no power to the rear lights, would require an "$873 trunk wiring harness followed by hours of troubleshooting labor". I declined a second inspection, having no trust in these jerks any more. I bought a rear SAM on eBay for $149 and replaced it myself and Magically, the tail lights all worked fine again. No wasting $873, no wiring harness, No ripoff. SO, a pre-purchase inspection is only as good as the place that is doing it, and this was a genuine Mercedes Benz Dealership!! Best to find a local foreign car shop that KNOWS these cars and has a reputation to protect. Here in town I have one that is family owned for 30 years and they appreciate having a business! Their guys are all former MBZ mechanics and they know the cars very well. LUCKY ME! Because I wouldn't go back to that dealership even to drink their free coffee. I since traded in that particular car for my W221, and because of the floor mats history, I kept those floor mats, they are in my garage looking new and beautiful. Wonder what I will ever do with them. (That was a W220)