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I know I'm about 8 years late to the party, but I've noticed over the last 5 years there are more DIY threads... A good thing... And, pure dealer service seems increasingly less economically feasible. Having recently self-taught myself how to 'offline' program with DAS (see, link above, and, you can do it too, if you have Xentry/DAS...), the dilemma arises on whether all new programming is a 'good' thing.
Frequent contributor, BOTUS, doesn't like some specific SW updates, as he described in the link above. More specifically, he says to avoid most of the 221902**** updates, at least for the pre-2010 vehicles. E.g. Distronic/ABR 2219029502 and air conditioning/AAC/KLA 2219024202.
I had already done the AAC/KLA 2219024202 update and was about to do the Distronic but stopped any further updates after reading what BOTUS said about the Distronic updates and other updates. Best I can tell, my 2007 S600, USA version, has had no updates since 2008 other than Telematics 2218270665 and the AAC/KLA 2219024202, that I did. I have no complaints with either, so far...
So, at the end of post #1 in the DIY-Telematics-Update link above, I asked:
"Anyone know of any other control units that could be improved with reprogramming??? And, which ones should be left alone???"
I've only heard from BOTUS so, I have a sample size of '1' so far, and he has a Euro S500.
BTW, I think I've confirmed, at least to myself, that you can't 'undo' an update with DAS, so my "If It Ain't Broke, Don't Fix It" philosophy has been the guiding principle so far...
Finally, a simpler question may be, "Has anyone done an update, and hates it?"
BTW, I think I've confirmed, at least to myself, that you can't 'undo' an update with DAS, so my "If It Ain't Broke, Don't Fix It" philosophy has been the guiding principle so far...
you can reverse with vediamo easy if you have the skills
posted this before but maybe you need to go back to your optician
Then for all readers, this "updating" Mark does, is with old Xentry/Das and old databases
This time last year an independent garage had just informed me Dec 2019 updates to xentry had finally given Merc authorised ability to flash backwards to earlier iteration.
No one has confirmed that this ability is there, but its obvious in the world of update everything every 10 minutes there'll be buggy iterations. He claimed it would take 3 days to get authorisation.
In BMW land they have had this ability more than 10 years. In fact all the flash files you can get anywhere, always include every iteration that was ever released. And thus I guess you could flash any you like.
But for the dealer they have to raise a PuMA case - Product and Measures Management in After sales (its the techy support for the dealerships). They validate an issue and authorised downgrade when the agree there's an issue
you can reverse with vediamo easy if you have the skills
posted this before but maybe you need to go back to your optician
Then for all readers, this "updating" Mark does, is with old Xentry/Das and old databases
Thanks for your "useful" comments, Ninja:
To clarify, for you, here's what I said,
"BTW, I think I've confirmed, at least to myself, that you can't 'undo' an update with DAS..." [emphasis added] Also, you posted a similar statement on 5 Jan 2021.
And, I saw your post about Vediamo... I think my eyes are okay, thanks for your concern...
"Maybe" you missed the post where I asked you, Ninja:
"Ninja, you posted in # 35, reversion is possible with Vediamo in theory. Do you have anything you can share with those of us using DIY Xentry?"
Since you didn't have an answer for that but, you seem to have divine omniscience to announce here that I'm "updating" using "old databases".... "maybe" you would like to contribute to the forum with your selection of which database is best for the 2007-2009 W221?
Or, do you stand by what you said on 4 Jan 2021?
"everything should be updated, those who pretend that you should not update your car with fixes are wrong." [emphasis supplied by BenzNinja]
Some disagree with your blanket statement. I say, "Trust but verify." Hence, the reason for this thread....
To clarify, for you, here's what I said, "BTW, I think I've confirmed, at least to myself, that you can't 'undo' an update with DAS..." [emphasis added] Also, you posted a similar statement on 5 Jan 2021.
And, I saw your post about Vediamo... I think my eyes are okay, thanks for your concern...
"Maybe" you missed the post where I asked you, Ninja: "Ninja, you posted in # 35, reversion is possible with Vediamo in theory. Do you have anything you can share with those of us using DIY Xentry?"
Since you didn't have an answer for that but, you seem to have divine omniscience to announce here that I'm "updating" using "old databases".... "maybe" you would like to contribute to the forum with your selection of which database is best for the 2007-2009 W221?
Or, do you stand by what you said on 4 Jan 2021? "everything should be updated, those who pretend that you should not update your car with fixes are wrong." [emphasis supplied by BenzNinja]
Some disagree with your blanket statement. I say, "Trust but verify." Hence, the reason for this thread....
Regards... Mark
Understand that my response was nothing aggressive but as you made a whole new Thread it's important to be clear to those who read it
Then about the "Das" name thing. it is important to mention this clearly as many readers. Reverse is not possible with "DAS" only. But a average Vediamo user can. Dts user too probably
Using Vediamo is something else. Just see the difference between a "Xentry/Das" user and a advanced Vediamo user as a Baker and a Surgeon. and of course, as this is my job and I am a sponsor here, I'm willing to help but not give Vediamo lessons here
Same thing with the database, it is by me build Custom 2008-2020 BenzNinja database, part of my work I sell. But those who want, are free to contact me and get a real complete system instead of struggling with vintage. Also, as I am a sponsor this will pay for maintaining your beloved forum.
I recognize this is your business and, as a sponsor, we appreciate your contribution . It's just a hobby to me; not a competition... In fact, I think you have a very useful service and, from what I've read, the MB dealers don't even want to do software updates... takes too much time and they can't charge enough.
BUT, the question remains-- and the reason for this thread-- Are all software updates desirable?
It appears to be doing exactly the same thing as my "old" Xentry/DAS. For example:
Checks for newer software and asks to update. (Note on updates: You don't have to. You just say, "No".)
And, another example:
For the heck of it, I checked my "old" databases just to see if you are using something different with the "New Exclusive custom database". Here's an example of a search for the motor electronics software for the AMG you did.
But, I digress... The point is, I have the ability to update and the newest software. Presumably, since you ,Ninja, are doing 221 updates and providing that service to members here, are there any members who can report in this thread on the benefits of any updates??? (Ninja, this should be good advertising for you and-- as my two threads on updating show-- this DIY programming is not for the faint of heart!!! Well-applied specific updates are highly recommended. I just don't know which ones are advisable.)
To reiterate, I have a "virgin" 221.176 with no updates since March 2008-- other than Telematics (necessary and highly recommended) and the accidental update to my a/c. Since I don't have the ability to revert to older software after an update, "To Update or, Not to Update? That is the question."
I recognize this is your business and, as a sponsor, we appreciate your contribution . It's just a hobby to me; not a competition... In fact, I think you have a very useful service and, from what I've read, the MB dealers don't even want to do software updates... takes too much time and they can't charge enough.
BUT, the question remains-- and the reason for this thread-- Are all software updates desirable?
It appears to be doing exactly the same thing as my "old" Xentry/DAS. For example:
Checks for newer software and asks to update. (Note on updates: You don't have to. You just say, "No".)
And, another example:
For the heck of it, I checked my "old" databases just to see if you are using something different with the "New Exclusive custom database". Here's an example of a search for the motor electronics software for the AMG you did.
But, I digress... The point is, I have the ability to update and the newest software. Presumably, since you ,Ninja, are doing 221 updates and providing that service to members here, are there any members who can report in this thread on the benefits of any updates??? (Ninja, this should be good advertising for you and-- as my two threads on updating show-- this DIY programming is not for the faint of heart!!! Well-applied specific updates are highly recommended. I just don't know which ones are advisable.)
To reiterate, I have a "virgin" 221.176 with no updates since March 2008-- other than Telematics (necessary and highly recommended) and the accidental update to my a/c. Since I don't have the ability to revert to older software after an update, "To Update or, Not to Update? That is the question."
Your humble "Baker"... Mark
I understand your confusion
I am not saying that there must be later firmware for X or X module
I am saying that you are playing with something that stops in time at a certain date. then if for example you would have a update XXX15, that you would upgrade, then have a problem, but that MB release a later fix XXX16
you would not see it
Then another little detail is that on many modules it requires SCN online after flash. that you bypass as you don't have a online account that pulls that eventually modified (or not) string
so, just saying that I always update what I can, I use the latest database and if necessary Online
It is fair to complain on a software failure and accuse MB only if you tried this. to me
forgot to mention
I never upgrade telematics by myself, just on request
same as for adding all available options on it, only on special request
command & co is a nightmare
and I am a nice guy, I just want to keep my own sense of humor, some don't understand
don't worry, anyone needing help is welcome, as always
Last edited by BenzNinja; Jan 16, 2021 at 02:44 AM.
Thanks for the explanation Ninja. I'm beginning to understand your reasoning. May I add this: You are on the W221 forum... Are you saying ALL updates are beneficial for the W221? You have said so in the past but, I think you were referring to MB models in general.
Also, have you had to do SCN programming on a W221 after DAS updating? I think W221 hobbyists, like me, need to know that. You have indicated that "may" be necessary but have you seen that happen on the 221? Especially, the 2007-2009 models... I'm just guessing-- as I've done here a lot-- but I really doubt it. I think accurate info is important...
Finally, I agree, the Telematics update is strange and different. In the USA, you either have to order the CD-ROM from Germany, or figure out how to burn your own. As far as I know, I'm the only one to explain it step-by-step in the link in post #1. The unintended consequence is why I posted this thread. Like a dog who catches the car he's chasing... Now, that I've caught the car-- offline programming-- I don't know what to do with it
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