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Good morning! I'm looking for a nice S500, leaning towards a late W220 with 7G-tronic, but also considering an early W221. The main reason for leaning towards the older car is repairability. I manage 90% of the repairs on my trusty old CLK and that car will take me on a 5000 mile road trip any day.
The thing that bothers me the most is COMAND. Were it to blow up in the W220, you'd just put in a 350 $ Android unit and be done with it. Reading this forum has me thinking that the W221 COMAND is so integrated with AC, massage seats, etc, that it's practically impossible for the car to function without it.
I can't have this happen in the middle of nowhere... Do people just get a used one when it goes out? I hear the android units are also not complete, but rely on the comand as well. How about that!
If I ask on the W220 forum, I'll surely get a bucket of hate for the W221? Figured I'll ask here
BOTUS says the earlier ones were more reliable. W221 is really a much better built car than the W220. I was also considering a late W220 and ended up with an early W221. No regrets.
I hear that. In reality I'm not afraid of normal wear items, even the SCN coding is not a deal breaker anymore, since one can evacuate the codes preemptively.
However the COMAND is a black box to me. If it goes out, will you get AC? Will the seats work? It's scary that the tech is so integrated in the unit. Is there a complete Android unit that can take over all of that? So many hard questions...
When it breaks, just replace it with another one... I dont think anyone is riding a car waiting for this to happen. The only reason you hear things like that happens, is because you belong to this community... If it eventually (but not "inevitably") breaks, there are hundreds aftermarket units available on the market. If you are that paranoid, buy one in advance and carry around with you. It will be a waste of money imo. There is nothing special required to replace them - just plug and play (you will have to code the features that you have, like dynamic seats, massages, external AMP, etc, but in principle they just work). So simple vediamo 4.0 with open port will do (no need for expensive hardware). Also keep in mind the model/version - NTG3.5 vs 3.0. Not all facelifted cars are 3.5 equipped, which makes this a bit tricky when doing the swap (3.5 has different video interface).
Thank you amgs63dxb, replacement sounds straightforward enough with the right tools! If I buy a second mercedes I'll definitely buy STAR, so I'll be able to do that.
But having said that, do you know what functions, apart from mulitmedia, won't work with broken COMAND? I know AC for example has physical buttons, but not sure what module controls it
if you want to insure against the biggest failure then on NTG3.5 in the later cars the drive pops out the front - buy a good replacement drive for $40 and clone the contents of the old drive to the new one - if you go solid state it should be faster, more reliable and create less heat - I wouldn't go as far as amgs63DBX suggests - my local Merc toys firm have 10 NTG3.5s sitting in the shop all defunct, and the pile goes up each time I visit
the same sensible advice applies to the NTG3.0 fitted before Oct 2009 but you have to get the unit out the dash and strip it down - where replacing the fan would also be a good idea - as Mercs fit one of similar quality to a budget lap top designed to last almost a year
On the Android set up I'm not sure what you keep - the AMP stays but do you keep the comand and just go with a box of fun that replaces just the screen, or wire the car to the Android bit and the other stuff left on the boot
Today I saw a W221 and also a low milage W220 (just 100k kilometers) and oh my god. The creaks and squeaks everywhere I touched! I found it hard to believe till I saw it personally, but I guess it's true that the fit and finish is not up to par. The 221 was so much more solid, even though in my experience had at least 300k kilometers judging by interior wear. Yeah, you told me so...
the world now works on marketing - the product can be a pile of ****
the 126 rusted to bits, the trim falls off inside and the brake calipers seize and has no toys
the 140 was the last tank - but the cost of petrol and its emissions mean you should be ashamed to start it
the 220 was OK if you don't want toys to work, and you pick up a mint one for $1000 and fit steel suspension
the 221 is 17 years old and whilst looks reasonably modern - withe enough modern toys to cope be prepared to pay like you never believed possible to keep it going
a ford focus will drive better and have more toys and safety kit
Sad but true ... Honestly I'm looking for an S because of the 1) cushy ride 2) V8 3) 7G. I'm hell bent on owning a NA V8 benz before everything becomes electric and the joy of driving goes to s h i t. As for toys - I need music and the lady needs heated seats. The fewer other options, the better.
The very reason I think I can afford an S is that I'll do 90% of the work myself (suspension, engine, electronic issues that don't require specialised equipment), COMAND was something I'm wary of specifically because I don't think I can repair it myself. But you give me hope.
I've been reading this forum like crazy for the past couple of days, and as far as I can see people are really happy with their 221s and the catastrophic experiences are really rare. Or am I missing something...
7g box is a shocking reliability car crash
ride needs the costly and rare ABC option - with lots of maintenance fun - you don't want airtragic
the V8 works (accepting early chocolate cam sprockets, and later stop start rubbish get chocolate cam chains instead
HiFi Amp is the bit that fails, not the so much the comand unit (the amp costs $1500)
the V8 from a GM car works
4 seat heated seat kits for $25 on ebay
a lexus can have a stereo Merc never imagined, and reliability Mercs never had, even in the 70 and 80s - sadly they usually have a nasty droning cvt box but last one I drove (stuck in NL with 60mph limits) but I never noticed it annoy me - and its radar cruise was vastly better then a 221's
UK whatcar survey of 10 year old cars
top 3 of 40, Lexus, Mazda, Honda (where they are on any survey for any age car since forever)
top 5 of 40 Toyota (near the top where they are on any survey for any age car since forever)
shock of the survey BMW landed in the top 10 not sure how they managed it usually always in the bottom 10 - especially with the electric water pumps that magically just stop working
Merc in its normal area of almost last place
on the VAG rubbish
Skoda - top 12
Seat - top 20
Audi - forget worse than u'd hope
VW - bottom 10 , usual area, proving brands of Audi & VW making the same cars that do OK, its cheap suspension arms, and deliberate failure in sensors & control modules
and in case we need other German made cars
Ford Europe made in germany I think was 29th
just beating Euro GM stuff (now sold of to stelantis) opel/vaxhaul in the last 10
Germany make some of the least reliable cars and bikes you can buy - its all image and not substance - but sadly they do drive better than most of the rest of the cars in the world - except Jag that smashes anything german to smithereens, but these also run in the reliability disaster area
The very reason I think I can afford an S is that I'll do 90% of the work myself (suspension, engine, electronic issues that don't require specialised equipment), COMAND was something I'm wary of specifically because I don't think I can repair it myself. But you give me hope.
I've been reading this forum like crazy for the past couple of days, and as far as I can see people are really happy with their 221s and the catastrophic experiences are really rare. Or am I missing something...
I'm in the same boat as you (do all my own work) though I'm not opposed to getting into some of the more advanced repairs this car may require. About 10 months and 9k on mine and no regrets. I might suggest a more base model S550, which is what mine is. Don't worry, I still desperately want a V12 car but that will have to wait.
MY research suggests that this is definitely the most reliable of the big German three in terms of this class (I know that isn't saying much). For similar money I could be driving, say, an Infiniti G37X. Actually, those are nice driving cars in their own right but I am glad I didn't pull the trigger on one of those. The S550 gives me everything I ever wanted, but couldn't have, from my old 1995 Cadillac Fleetwood Brougham which I owned once upon a time and is only the second Euro car of any kind that I've owned, ever (so it's not like I'm used to maintenance pigs and making excuses for it). Is it way more complex? Of course. But I get off on demystifying something that most people wouldn't dare to own and it turns out I am having a good experience so far. I think most people agree. Still, it doesn't hurt to listen to everyone. Just take it with a grain of salt.
My car is a late 2006 and I was surprised to find that the steel petrol tank had rusted into holes where the heat shield/sound-deadening panels attach to it. Had to remove all the rear suspension/diff/exhaust/prop etc to get the tank out to weld it (new tank £3020 - supply only!!). This car has spent it's life in the UK where the roads are salted each winter. Might be something worth checking though, depending where you live.
That's a great tip. Last year when I bought the car I douched as much underneath as I could with CRC Rust Inhibitor (Project Farm found it scored top marks in a comparison). I will try to get under there soon and pay attention to that area.
I have to say I am shocked the tank is steel. I thought most cars went to plastic in the 90s.
My car is a late 2006 and I was surprised to find that the steel petrol tank had rusted into holes where the heat shield/sound-deadening panels attach to it. Had to remove all the rear suspension/diff/exhaust/prop etc to get the tank out to weld it (new tank £3020 - supply only!!). This car has spent it's life in the UK where the roads are salted each winter. Might be something worth checking though, depending where you live.
had my MOT today - I thought I was looking at the petrol tank - its plastic ???
Looks like 221-470-91-01 and lists for $1,460 US. My particular dealer internet price is $997.50. But I have no idea what the material is. I really hope it isn't steel...
Looks like 221-470-91-01 and lists for $1,460 US. My particular dealer internet price is $997.50. But I have no idea what the material is. I really hope it isn't steel...
I was amazed it wasn't plastic.
Everything from the main dealers in the UK seems to be approximately twice the price I see stuff for in the US, but most places don't seem to want to ship to the UK. Got to be a business opportunity there! For instance - I replaced the subframe bushes while it was in bits recently and had to pay £130 each for bushes that I saw advertised in the US for $59 - both the same MB part.
ummm, maybe what I think is the tank is something else
you know ethanol is a killer for metal - deteriorates petrol in 2 months, absorbs water and grows bugs that excrete acetic acid
E10 is just designed to get more cars off the road faster
As others have said, the two parts of an NTG3.5 COMAND system that will fail are the hard drive and the amplifier. Hard drive is a 40GB PATA hard drive as used in old laptops. You can buy a replacement on ebay for ~$50. Note PATA vs SATA. You can pull yours and clone it to the spare with inexpensive pc software and adapters. Now you've got a good spare on the shelf. If you wait until after yours fails, you will lose the Nav Maps. You can install a new blank hard drive, and the COMAND unit will format it with the data it needs to make it work, but the nav map data will be missing. You'll have to re-load the maps from the DVD discs. You can sometimes buy DVD-R copies from ebay, but original DVD discs from the dealer are NLA. Hence why it's better to buy a spare and clone your data before a failure occurs.
The second thing that fails is the amplifier in the trunk. Symptoms are audio that works sometimes, or cuts in and out, and your FM radio tuner will freeze up and not respond to input from the COMAND knob. There are some shops that repair these amplifiers. They are also available as "rebuilt" units from the dealer, 221-900-81-03-80. Expensive at around $1700 last time I checked. I had to replace mine last year. Internet wisdom says they fail because the small cooling fan on the amplifier blows a lot of dust onto the circuit board inside, where it sticks and builds up. The dust then retains moisture from the humidity in the air. This moist dust causes the circuit board to corrode and short out. Pulling the cover off the amplifier and blowing out the black dust should prevent this failure from occurring. Or so says the internet. I intend to pop mine open in another year to inspect and clean it. Seems like cheap insurance.
There is an aftermarket Android unit for the NTG 3.5 cars that also retains all the factory functions (power seats, climate controls, etc). No idea on what kind of quality it is, or if it would last any longer than the original parts. Made/sold by companies you've never heard of before, I suspect it's built to fill an immediate need and not necessarily built to last for many years.
Last edited by argon3030; Sep 23, 2022 at 02:07 PM.
Internet wisdom says they fail because the small cooling fan on the amplifier blows a lot of dust onto the circuit board inside, where it sticks and builds up. The dust then retains moisture from the humidity in the air. This moist dust causes the circuit board to corrode and short out. Pulling the cover off the amplifier and blowing out the black dust should prevent this failure from occurring. Or so says the internet. I intend to pop mine open in another year to inspect and clean it. Seems like cheap insurance.
Yes, I read the same thing and did the same thing. My amp wasn't that dirty but I felt better having actually checked it. No issues and I'll worry about it when something happens. I crank the music up all the time. My fan does NOT run for a ridiculously long time after shut down. Maybe a few mins.
my amp died - my fan was OK and the board and that part of the boot looked like new - the much newer secondhand part I fitted had a knackered fan - it wouldn't spin up unless you flicked it in to life with a toothpick - and sounded like a jet engine
I swapped it out for a slower far higher flow fan and covered half the chips with graphics card stick on heat sinks - most of the board gets no air ever and the chips run at melting point
I swapped it out for a slower far higher flow fan and covered half the chips with graphics card stick on heat sinks - most of the board gets no air ever and the chips run at melting point
Nice, would love to see some photos of this! Edit: Could you share the specs or model number of the fan you used?
Last edited by argon3030; Sep 23, 2022 at 04:02 PM.
Mercedes SLR McLaren 722 S Is Extremely Rare Example Modified by McLaren
Slideshow: A one-of-one U.S.-spec Mercedes-Benz SLR McLaren Roadster became even rarer after a factory-backed transformation at McLaren's headquarters.
. Thanks.
