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I'm pretty sure every car mentioned here has some sort of expensive items. The LC seems to be one-off for every damn thing.
I'm spoiled by the S63 really. If I had a S550, it'd be an easier jump to another car. But, having all of the power and luxury makes it a great car.
Lately, the F8x M3 and M4 have been leading contenders. But, they look like Subaru STIs with interiors to match. They are within the budge and I fit them well. They have impeccable power and handling, but I can't get over how they look like they are for someone half my age. Not to mention that finding a clean, unmolested one is near impossible...even with fewer than 30K miles. And the current gen models are $80-100K.
Grass is always greener. My S550 has 429hp and chills at 110mph on the freeway anytime I need to do crime for extended amounts of time. Temps stay cool, tires don't care, brakes don't care. If it had 100hp more I legitimately might not even notice.
The AMG GTS makes me lose sleep at night. Potential $20,000+ transmission replacement over a solenoid, speed sensor, nobody will touch it. I've seen 4 different cases of the transmission going out on here at 60k not covered by warranty. Engines mounted in a way where certain items are borderline engine-out for things like oil separators, or sensors behind the engine. It was my holy grail of cars, this is after a 997. Hell I'll be honest I'm even making payments on it at 2.8%, invested enough to more than cover the interest so its a free car.
The S63 has $400 rotor alternatives from VNE, always a way to work smarter not harder. In my opinion it's the greatest car Mercedes makes now that I know what I know.
The 997 bump steers, has a $2000 clutch service, coolant reservoir from hell, the alternator/starter service is $2000, pray you never have a rock through the radiators, and the windshield is paper thin to where if you knock the mirror getting in/out you WILL crack it, and the windshield has an internal antenna aka its $1200. It also is fairly awful at cooling itself, the fan is always screaming. The shock strut combo are $1400 to replace it with Bilstein b6 and all the mounts and soft parts to complete the job properly. Thats nearly Airmatic money which comes with the mounts and soft parts already installed.
CQ, have you eliminated SL cars? They check a lot of your boxes but are not in the sports car class like 911. you have a great Sclass and won’t get much for it on trade so keep it and add to the stable. Might just satisfy most itching.
CQ, have you eliminated SL cars? They check a lot of your boxes but are not in the sports car class like 911. you have a great Sclass and won’t get much for it on trade so keep it and add to the stable. Might just satisfy most itching.
You are right that I'm getting offered pennies for my 75K mile S63. All trade-in offers have been under $20K. You are right that I should probably keep it. But, I don't want to have 3 vehicles with overlapping properties.
LX: Big family hauler. Luxury interior. Interior space for hauling. Not-small interior.
S63: Big family hauler.Luxury interior. Powerful and fast. Great looking. Not-small interior.
New car: Great handling. Powerful and fast. Great looking. Not-small interior.
Right now, I'll have all of my important itches scratched with:
LX: Big family hauler. Luxury interior. Interior space for hauling. Not-small interior.
New car: Great handling. Powerful and fast. Great looking. Not-small interior.
With no overlapping features and especially getting the thing that I've been lacking the most: Great handling.
The SL in general won't scratch the itch and I don't like convertibles. Never been in to them. The SL65 Black Series probably would scratch the itch....but I don't have that kind of money. Right now, it seems that the BMW M3/M4 get closest to everything that I want (including budget), the only downsides being the looks (a bit too young for me) and the fact that it's difficult to find a used one that's unmolested and bone stock. It's kinda the WRX for rich kids* or folks in their 20s. So, the search would be to find the best looking M3/M4 that's stock, never been pushed hard, and in a great color.
I'm trying not to have this turn into a shopping for a car thread which would be a whole 'nother can of worms.
*Funny story: When I test drove this M3, the salesman was like, "I have a customer with a deposit on this. Rich guy. Owns a construction company. He's buying it for his 17 year old son. But, if the deal falls through, you'd be next in line if you want it."
The M5 is a strong option. It's great in a straight line and is definitely a "middle-aged guy's car", but because of it's size, weight, and numb electric steering, it's moving away from the great handling that I'm looking for.
You're looking for a racey sedan, you would need to downgrade to a C63, CLS63, or E63 to get that rowdiness back. The S63 has engineered most of the annoying poor people things like road feedback out of the equation. I do love the BMW M cars but for build quality, daily driving, and torque the 63 cars beat anything on the road for me.
The M5 has certain mechanical liabilities like wouldn't believe. The spark plugs are like an all-day adventure in that thing just to start. I think considering the things you're looking at, money really isn't the larger issue here and performance wise they are very exciting! Performance-wise it's one of the fastest most incontestable vehicles on the road today.
The M3 is great, it's a legend for a reason, it does everything bakes the cake and eats it. As long as you don't get too carried away with fiddling with it, they're mostly combat reliable. Amongst BMW people though, you have to be careful, there is almost a hidden subculture to defending the brand's mechanical inconveniences for damn near almost 20+ years. Crank snout, carbon build up, fuel pumps, along with the general BMW issues like oil filter housing gaskets made of paper, entire valve covers needing to be replaced, plastic thermostat housing, water pump, plastic coolant fittings. Once you sorta identify and know these things you can live with them.
I mean don't get me wrong people spend dumb money on AMG stuff too, it's like 12 hours for long tube headers on some of the AMG's at $150/hr, then after that they go back for sporty engine mounts, TCU tunes (just maintain your transmission people), heat exchangers etc, and then the cars get granny driven on the freeway anyway.
Yeah, I've read about many of the issues that you mention and when my wife had a valve cover gasket leak on her 535i (N55), replacing the valve cover was part of the job.
The crank hub on the S55 is the one that concerns me the most. That's why, if I go this route, I'll do my best to find one that's never been tuned. I sat in this M4 (didn't test drive) that had less than 25K miles...and a new engine because of that problem.
The salesman said that, "The crank hub caused an engine failure and BMW put a new engine in it at 20K miles." I asked, "Did the previous owner have a tune on it?" He wasn't sure (understandably since they had bought it at auction). Then I walked around to the back of the car and saw ghosting of a "Dinan" sticker that had been removed from the boot lid. I instantly said, "Nah. I'll pass. I don't even want to drive it."
It's cool that the community has developed a fix for the issue.
I think if I went this route, the biggest issue would be finding a clean one that's never been tuned or modded.
Yeah, I've read about many of the issues that you mention and when my wife had a valve cover gasket leak on her 535i (N55), replacing the valve cover was part of the job.
The crank hub on the S55 is the one that concerns me the most. That's why, if I go this route, I'll do my best to find one that's never been tuned. I sat in this M4 (didn't test drive) that had less than 25K miles...and a new engine because of that problem.
The salesman said that, "The crank hub caused an engine failure and BMW put a new engine in it at 20K miles." I asked, "Did the previous owner have a tune on it?" He wasn't sure (understandably since they had bought it at auction). Then I walked around to the back of the car and saw ghosting of a "Dinan" sticker that had been removed from the boot lid. I instantly said, "Nah. I'll pass. I don't even want to drive it."
It's cool that the community has developed a fix for the issue.
I think if I went this route, the biggest issue would be finding a clean one that's never been tuned or modded.
yeah I think people ask a lot of those engines because it has a turbo so naturally the car somehow owes them something beyond what it already does on paper. You'll find on a track most of these cars are slower and less durable anyway for it, melt plugs, overheat etc. If this was an M113K sure I'd approve anything you wanna throw at it.The actual mechanics of it are pretty solid, but what people and myself consider forged and "holding 700hp stock" are two completely different conversations once you get into engine building. It's a game of thermodynamics and the rods can be as beefy as they want but metallurgy and oil film strength is the name of the game. That and all these tunes contribute to fuel dilution in the oil too. You'll like the car though. Awesome wheels, driving feedback, seating, they're super aggressive on the street, the chassis parts are all high quality, brakes are excellent, and considering they're not MB's they don't weigh 4400lbs to start.
If the car is running well, I'd just take it and run honestly. Also make sure you feed whatever it is with Amsoil purchased from your friendly neighborhood forum sponsor
Sat in a 2022 G80 M3 and a 2014 R8 convertible (for size. I don’t like convertibles), and a F82 M4 convertible (for size) and the G80 was tight like the 911s. Shoulder pressing the door. The previous gen M4 fit OK and the R8 was the widest.
You're looking for a racey sedan, you would need to downgrade to a C63, CLS63, or E63 to get that rowdiness back. The S63 has engineered most of the annoying poor people things like road feedback out of the equation. I do love the BMW M cars but for build quality, daily driving, and torque the 63 cars beat anything on the road for me.
I'm going to emphasize, again, to take a look at an E63. My 14 E63S is the perfect sidekick to my W221. They do not in any way feel overlapping. They are fairly heavy, I admit, but I find the chassis is still pretty tossable as with every new AMG E-class, they have been improving handling and directness. My 04 E55 felt more old school by comparison (and I actually do miss that, but a canyon carver it really was not).
I don't get it - modern cars with rock hard suspension and at least 2 tonnes of lead are horrible to drive - stupid wider rubber makes them even worse to drive, yes it grips but it horrible grip
light weight nimble cars on normal tyres aka things where the anti-roll bars help, not just another bit of junk making it so stiff its just nasty...
there a reason a 911 works - its well under 1500kg - if its >1800kg it should be an auto, have active cruise control and come with soft comfortable suspension
Some of us (probably many of us) just don't like small cars. Living in the US it's pretty easy to not "need" a small car, so there's that. Just because I like larger vehicles doesn't mean I don't value athleticism. So for me, when considering my good handling vehicle, I tend to gravitate toward the largest vehicle that delivers the required performance. If I wanted something low to the ground that can pull 1.1+ Gs I'd have a Corvette in my garage. But I like sedans (wagons are cool but the tax is not worth it to me, and the idea of a "sport wagon" is still a bit lost on me, much like "sport sedan" is probably lost on others).
It's not a matter of experience, either. I've had the pleasure of driving a Lotus Elise nearly to the limit on the Tail of the Dragon. Didn't make me want to buy one but man I sure did respect it.
2007 S600, 2007 Chrysler 300 SRT8, 2000 C5 Corvette, 2017 Mustang GT, 2023 300C, and a 2019 Lincoln
But I like sedans (wagons are cool but the tax is not worth it to me, and the idea of a "sport wagon" is still a bit lost on me, much like "sport sedan" is probably lost on others).
I spend most of my life being lost ..... I have a Corvette in the garage and an S600 in the driveway and I vastly prefer the comfort and speed of the big Mercedes.
Whelp...I've made my choice. I found this gem of a 2006 E60 M5 with 40K miles on it (literally, like 40,xxx). For those not familiar, it has BMW's S85 V10 motor that revs to 8,250 RPM.
Regarding size, it's literally the size of the F80 M3. I'll see if I can find some hard numbers to back this up. Oh, and shoulder width inside is ample...the same as in the F80 M3.
I got this for about 1/2 to 1/3 of the cost of some of the other cars mentioned in this thread...with this one having the same or fewer miles on it. I think this was someone's "Condo Car".
EDIT: Also got a Lemon Squad PPI and took it to the BMW dealership for fluid changes after purchase and they did their inspection on it. Under-body was clean (light surface rust in select areas). Bushings fresh. Small oil leak that needs to be tracked down.
Oh, and I traded my S63 in on this. I got $16,500 for it, which was the highest offer from the multiple dealerships that gave me a number. I received trade-in offers of $10K, $14.5K, $15K, $16K, and $16.5K.
Whelp...I've made my choice. I found this gem of a 2006 E60 M5 with 40K miles on it (literally, like 40,xxx). For those not familiar, it has BMW's S85 V10 motor that revs to 8,250 RPM.
Regarding size, it's literally the size of the F80 M3. I'll see if I can find some hard numbers to back this up. Oh, and shoulder width inside is ample...the same as in the F80 M3.
I got this for about 1/2 to 1/3 of the cost of some of the other cars mentioned in this thread...with this one having the same or fewer miles on it. I think this was someone's "Condo Car".
EDIT: Also got a Lemon Squad PPI and took it to the BMW dealership for fluid changes after purchase and they did their inspection on it. Under-body was clean (light surface rust in select areas). Bushings fresh. Small oil leak that needs to be tracked down.
Congrats! What's the story on the search? Cargurus, BaT, something else?
Congrats! What's the story on the search? Cargurus, BaT, something else?
Autotrader, believe it or not. I just set the radius to 500 miles. This was was 400 miles away in Orlando at a side-of-the-road dealership. Nice guys. The car sat for a while and then they started lowering the price and I jumped on it.
It was one of the lowest mileage E60 M5s in the country. I couldn't believe it. I checked the mileage via Carvertical, Carfax, and Lemon Squad. The Fields BMW in Winter Park, FL also verified the mileage based on BMW's record keeping system. I got really, really lucky.
Oh, and the handling is very good. It has 3 Electronic Dampening Control suspension settings and there are very noticeable differences between each.
It took me a while to get used to the SMG transmission (how it works, what to expect, when to expect it). It literally feels like a manual transmission with a robotic arm cycling through the gears. Kinda odd and off-putting at first, but it feels like you are in the passenger seat while a driver is shifting with a the manual gearbox. It works really, really well when you have all of the settings turned to max and have the "M Mode" (or whatever it's called) on. It shifts fast, firm, and crisp. It even rev-matches on downshifts. This is expected on modern cars, but I didn't expect it on this one.
Oh, and the thing about the S85 sounding like an F1 car is real. I had a lot of fun on the 400 mile drive from Orlando to Atlanta.
The car has 7 gears and I can get to 100MPH in 4th...nowhere near red line. I had to set the Max Speed Alert in the settings. That kept me out of jail 😂
ONE top tip you MUST know on the early ones is hold the idrive knob ( left, right, up, down) for 2 seconds to jump from what ever convoluted mess of menus u r in - back to the start of each quadrants main menu.... that'll save 8 seconds of twist turn confuse every time
Likely (not sure how you sort the trim) you can plug and play the 3 year newer idrive knob with the shortcut buttons....
CCC terrible
CIC bearable
NBT great
NBT Evo 10 years never - with all mod cons - wouldn't touch a BM with a noddy box attached - they did it all properly in house
Mercedes SLR McLaren 722 S Is Extremely Rare Example Modified by McLaren
Slideshow: A one-of-one U.S.-spec Mercedes-Benz SLR McLaren Roadster became even rarer after a factory-backed transformation at McLaren's headquarters.
