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Thank you Botus. I’m not getting any misfire codes but it runs up rough through the gears and throttles up in neutral rough. This Saturday should be receiving 24 iridium plugs and right/left coil packs rebuilt by the world famous Clark Rupp at V12icpack.com
Tomorrow taking it in for engine/transmission mounts inspection. If original and or damaged, out with the old and in with the new.
Gonna swap those items out and get back with a full report and some images.
Johnny
make sure you FULLY understand the power-supply design failings - this is the route of all evil in v12 ignition hell
he does a refurbish unit with replaceable fuses for each bank - these pop before the coil packs do !!!! or now he developed his own decent quality aftermarket power supply -it makes the joke Merc peddled look like the designed to fail and steal 6k every 4 year thing it really is.
Personally if I had a v12, until fitted with a better power supply - I wouldn't crank any v12 into action - my strong advice is do not fit the coil packs till you have resolved the power supply issue that will destroy the ones you have, or worse immediately take out the new ones...
I posted a whole research thread here while ago,
If you get a new voltage converter, or have a good one, you can protect it from death with 1 amp fuses
post 50
Motor mounts are a maintenance item on the S Class. After installing, you won't even know the engine is running it will be so smooth. Good luck.
A well maintained S Class is the finest motorcar in the World.
Definitely true. Sometimes I get to a light and I'm like is the engine on? It's crazy that the V12 is so quiet and smooth, until heavily step on the gas.
Thank you Botus. I’m not getting any misfire codes but it runs up rough through the gears and throttles up in neutral rough. This Saturday should be receiving 24 iridium plugs and right/left coil packs rebuilt by the world famous Clark Rupp at V12icpack.com
Tomorrow taking it in for engine/transmission mounts inspection. If original and or damaged, out with the old and in with the new.
Gonna swap those items out and get back with a full report and some images.
Johnny
So, Lakeside Mercedes replaced the two original engine mounts and one transmission mount, and the nasty vibration went away 100%. The service writer and master tech were surprised because the mounts were not collapsed or leaking. I was very pleased because that meant something in the tranny was NOT toasted, and now it is running and shifting super smooth as expected.
Arriving Monday is the right/left coil packs from Clark Rupp at V12icpack.com Date of manufacture of the original coil packs is 2008. Preemptive strike as the coil packs are way past their life. I’m doing the job. The shop quoted $1200 labor just to install the 24 iridium spark plugs. I pay for the plugs separately. This will address part two of the triad of death of the S600. Step 3 will be the ABC suspension flush.
Finally some pictures of the new machine:
2009 S600 looking like new inside and out.
S600 sporting a Distronic radar package up front.
Last edited by johnnyrocket52; 06-25-2023 at 04:03 AM.
similar spec to mine (diff engine) - I have the same front bumper - bar the orange bits USA love - & u have night assist as well...
check this (you have to fight the capta bit) - type in chassis number and will give lots of info about model build spec https://www.mbdecoder.com/
could you please test the Nav and TCM over lay mute feature.... for fade at any vol level - with the radio on, if the Nav sound comes out, it should fade out the radio - FYI you can set the star button to do whatever you use most often (like a favourite - of the choices they provide) usually its set for the rear blind - but I prefer for the Nav, so at any time can get her to repeat what she said... depending upon what got updated (software wise) - this feature seems to go walkabout... (so if Nav not in use and favourite set up that way - she just says "Navigation is not active" and its easy to see if the radio fade operates
similar spec to mine (diff engine) - I have the same front bumper - bar the orange bits USA love - & u have night assist as well...
check this (you have to fight the capta bit) - type in chassis number and will give lots of info about model build spec https://www.mbdecoder.com/
could you please test the Nav and TCM over lay mute feature.... for fade at any vol level - with the radio on, if the Nav sound comes out, it should fade out the radio - FYI you can set the star button to do whatever you use most often (like a favourite - of the choices they provide) usually its set for the rear blind - but I prefer for the Nav, so at any time can get her to repeat what she said... depending upon what got updated (software wise) - this feature seems to go walkabout... (so if Nav not in use and favourite set up that way - she just says "Navigation is not active" and its easy to see if the radio fade operates
Will do Botus. Right now I’m knee deep in the coil packs swap. I gotta get through this tomorrow and fly out of town early Wednesday. Got to get this first major PM right or no daily driver…no pressure here.
I’ve used them 5 times now. $200 for an average old car, higher fee for a Ferrari Dino. I think they are pretty good. They missed the rough running engine in the S600, but in defense, to the misinformed it sounds like a rumbly performance car and it pulls like a freight train! They seem to hire car nuts who really pay attention to details. My 2008 STS-V Caddy had the hood slightly misaligned and he caught it the new owner said. I think they tend to get it mostly right within the limited time they have. Minimum is to have LS look at it, fly or hitch hike out there, and you do the final inspection?
Best would be get service history, hire Lemon Squad, have dealer inspect it for repairs (you pay), test drive it, ship it or drive it home.
Mercedes dealer wanted $500 for thorough inspection. I passed up that one.
Lemon Squad sent a lot of good quality images and answered my special questions like leaks in hydraulic suspension and blown stereo speakers
my experience is they are all idiots and crooked, unless you ID mark and photo every component, these days you get most of a different car or bike back...
my experience is they are all idiots and crooked, unless you ID mark and photo every component, these days you get most of a different car or bike back...
DIY if you want it done correctly / well
I was just looking at my car yesterday, reviewing some work done at the dealer on my passenger door. I found the end cover of the door broken. Scrape marks on the outside, and three of the six clips broken inside. How does this even happen? At the same visit, I had them replace something they broke last time, but claimed they did not. I get it that these are delicate and old cars, but geez.
Across three Mercedes and three years, I have taken a car to the dealer exactly two times. The first was my E55 for a brake fluid flush and sunroof recall. The second was my S550 for tire mounting/balancing. The experience was good but these items are pretty straight forward. I would consider the dealer for things like alignment in the future.
The overall dealership experience is excellent, as I got a loaner for the E55 work. Love the parts dept, also. They know me (lol).
I have struck up a casual relationship with one of the service writers (originally as a source for VMI) and I have been observing how this system works. It seems like the game is the service writers suggest 4 figures worth of work pretty much every single time, and then the customer may either reject some or all of it, and/or the service writer "works with" the customer to provide some kind of a "discount." Obviously the service writers don't touch the cars. The ultimate game is to eventually push the Mercedes owner into a new or newer car. This system works.
I did have a question for a tech when I brought my E55 in for a brake fluid flush. The service writer got the tech and brought him out so I could ask my questions. I thought that was good.
Who profits from the excessive recommended services? Are the service writers just doing right by their employer, or do they keep some small percentage of what they sell? How about parts?
Yeah I never answered the commission question. Or I asked and forgot the answer. It's a big ethical question so I will not speculate.
I can tell you at least from a simple character perspective, the guy I befriended is NOT out to screw people. Of course, if you say "I love you" before you slap someone, does that really make any difference?
I think they have a good amount of work just from the typical A/B service repetition. Of course they like to spot oil leaks and things like that. I will say the previous and original owner of my E63S drove it to 98k and prepaid for all the A/B service. I should add up the costs of that. It is pretty intense. He paid $104k and then well into the 5 figures on regular maintenance. I paid $27,500. He got the experience/enjoyment of owning the car from new but there is no way in hell he got the better end of the deal from a purely monetary standpoint.
Who profits from the excessive recommended services? Are the service writers just doing right by their employer, or do they keep some small percentage of what they sell? How about parts?
everyone other than the owner... the idea is make it too costly to either buy new or maintain the one you have - then they can just focus on running a factory pumping out garbage on a lease deal - where the factory is utilised to just inside its max capacity - then they can build down to the 3 year life cycle and just squash them - that way, no need to make them well, no spares inventory and no techs to train and offend customers
= prints more money. Then there's a more draconian plan for when the planet wears out and you won't need to care about costs or how it happened..... we are on a path with an end you won't like - in between all corps agreed to steal lots of money for the special ones at the top (who aim to be last man standing) - whilst the corps seem to be run by mad men - they aren't, Crooked and Sick - Yes. The real issues is us helping them land the wrong strategy
1) There are no corporations without people to buy the products. It's not like there isn't a choice. No one has to buy a Mercedes. They choose to.
2) You ascribe unreasonable amounts of....malevolence or at least competency. Who says these people have the capacity, time, interest, in co-conspiracies when it would be a lot better to just....make good products that people choose to buy. See item #1.
Bonus item: Yes I know WEF is a thing that has infiltrated corporate boards globally so there's that. Hopefully you don't support their agenda (which is to get rich at everyone else's expense, under the auspices of elitism/we-know-better-than-you.
Hi CQ, I gather you are looking to purchase the Porsche? The threads were tough to follow. Which model you settled on?
Johnny
After driving (or just sitting in) 992, 991.2, 991.1, 997, and 996 variants, I realized that they are all too small for me. That's why I bought the E60 M5 that had lower mileage than any Porsche or BMW that I'd considered up until this point. I'll take the money saved and put it into preventative maintenance. Especially being that all of the gremlins of this car have been identified with relatively inexpensive fixes...plus it looks cool. None of that beaver teeth nonsense. And the Bangle Butt has aged very, very well.
After driving (or just sitting in) 992, 991.2, 991.1, 997, and 996 variants, I realized that they are all too small for me. That's why I bought the E60 M5 that had lower mileage than any Porsche or BMW that I'd considered up until this point. I'll take the money saved and put it into preventative maintenance. Especially being that all of the gremlins of this car have been identified with relatively inexpensive fixes...plus it looks cool. None of that beaver teeth nonsense. And the Bangle Butt has aged very, very well.
I finally read the posts. Normally aspirated V-10, low miles, simpler than forced fed V-12. Enjoy the new German machine.
the complexity of the v10 vs the simplicity of a v8 with 2 fans is not going to make things easier.... the oil feed to the cams is the first bit that needs sorting - the external oil feed pipes have let lots of people down....
not sure but worth checking - do the con rods have a service life ?
The low miles are probably an insurance policy but isn't that S85 and SMG known to be one of the most costly to maintain drivetrains in the German performance car world? I guess this comment loses some value since the stuff we are comparing to aren't exactly Toyotas but still...
the complexity of the v10 vs the simplicity of a v8 with 2 fans is not going to make things easier.... the oil feed to the cams is the first bit that needs sorting - the external oil feed pipes have let lots of people down....
not sure but worth checking - do the con rods have a service life ?
oh - almost right - big end bearing replacement is a service thing on the v10 $2k
The factory has stated (on multiple occasions due to multiple warranty claims) that bearing replacement is a preventive measure that must be taken on the S85 V10 engine.
Bearings, just like oil, must be replaced at pre-determined mileage or time intervals. BMW S 85 bearings must be replaced after approx. 50,000 miles. Even if you do replace them compulsively, there is a trick few know and even more ignore: the big secret to saving these engines is warm-up: these engines were based on the P80/1 engines. They were warmed up before each race by circulating hot coolant and oil through the engine prior to starting. Very few of us sit on our cars, start the engines, and patiently wait for the engine to warm up before driving away. Specially on cold weather. I also use high zinc content 10W60 oil, changing to 5W50 during winter months. Taken care of, these babies will satisfy your right foot every time.
oh - almost right - big end bearing replacement is a service thing on the v10 $2k
The factory has stated (on multiple occasions due to multiple warranty claims) that bearing replacement is a preventive measure that must be taken on the S85 V10 engine.
Bearings, just like oil, must be replaced at pre-determined mileage or time intervals. BMW S 85 bearings must be replaced after approx. 50,000 miles. Even if you do replace them compulsively, there is a trick few know and even more ignore: the big secret to saving these engines is warm-up: these engines were based on the P80/1 engines. They were warmed up before each race by circulating hot coolant and oil through the engine prior to starting. Very few of us sit on our cars, start the engines, and patiently wait for the engine to warm up before driving away. Specially on cold weather. I also use high zinc content 10W60 oil, changing to 5W50 during winter months. Taken care of, these babies will satisfy your right foot every time.
I agree with the warmup of these fire breathing machines. We have been brainwashed by the OBD2 and catalytic converter designers; (playing in my head is a sexy woman’s voice): upon starting the vehicle, immediately drive the vehicle, do not warm up, for fast Catalytic converter light off, enabling almost immediate compliance with Federal mandated minimum pollution emissions.
Prior to fuel injection and computers we had carburetors with funky mechanical automatic chokes for cold starts. It was part of the cold start ritual to get the car to warm up close to operating temp so you could tap the accelerator and get the choke to disengage, going out of high idle, engine throttle response behaving healthy, and finally you may drive down the road without the motor stalling.
Today with computers, fuel injection, the cold start of the motor is very well executed, and most folks observe it runs like a beast with a cold engine due to the wonder of the computer.
With all my cars, out of habit (thanks Dad), if I’m not running late, I have warmed each one of them up very close to operating temp. Start driving moderately a few miles down to the freeway. By that time everything is at proper operating temperature in the motor (automatic transmissions can take up to 10 miles to get to temp), all fluid viscosity is optimum, fluid seals have thermally expanded and are sealed up as designed, all systems are green, go. Storing it in the garage helps quick warmup for winter. Having it outside in Phoenix in the summer, it’s always at operating temp!
It’s kind to the motor and tranny when everything is at operating temperature just prior to near full throttle up merging onto the freeway or blasting by a slow driver putting on clown makeup in the rear view mirror in the fast lane.
Johnny
Last edited by johnnyrocket52; 07-08-2023 at 11:29 PM.
not entirely accurate - the reason taxi drivers manage 500k miles all day long is because the number of cold starts (the main reason engine's wear) is much lower on a taxi, than on most of our cars....
06-23-2023, 04:28 AM
