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Doesn't really matter as long as it GETS changed. Oil interval at 5k mi with standard stuff (EVERYTHING is in the Owner's Manual, btw) and you're gtg.
But it does matter for the cold starts. If you get very cold temperatures, like around “0F” and colder, you really need that “0” as the low viscosity indicator on the oil to be able to start the engine with some lubrication flowing in the tiny oil channels right away. I would not risk that with too thick oil in cold temp.
After oil heats up it is fine no matter what the lower number is, the critical time is right after start.
as I mentioned earlier the temp range (cold or hot) in the merc owners manual is one to one with either 30 or 40 grade - but on the list 30 is the first column...
on later engines here's a load of manufacturers that have moved on for newer vehicles and here it shows its the manu spec that matters not the old rubbish on the front of a bottle
CASTROL EDGE 0W-20 C5
ACEA C5, C6
API SP
ILSAC GF-6
GM dexos1™ Gen 3*
Jaguar Land Rover engine oil specification STJLR.03.5006
This is somewhat anecdotal but I remember back when Ford introduced 5W-20 for their US vehicles. They made the mistake of retroactively applying their new fuel economy oil. What I recall was a bunch of RV guys running the Triton V10 in their Class C and Class A motorhomes and there was a period of significantly increased engine failures. If I recall Ford went back and said "oh yeah maybe not 5W-20 in those. Whoops."
Maybe that is an extreme example but it still applies if you like to exercise your vehicles like I do.
I run 5W-40 in my AMG products because I don't use them in the winter and I want the shear stability of 5W-40 vs 0W-40 (all things equal).
This is somewhat anecdotal but I remember back when Ford introduced 5W-20 for their US vehicles. They made the mistake of retroactively applying their new fuel economy oil. What I recall was a bunch of RV guys running the Triton V10 in their Class C and Class A motorhomes and there was a period of significantly increased engine failures. If I recall Ford went back and said "oh yeah maybe not 5W-20 in those. Whoops."
Maybe that is an extreme example but it still applies if you like to exercise your vehicles like I do.
I run 5W-40 in my AMG products because I don't use them in the winter and I want the shear stability of 5W-40 vs 0W-40 (all things equal).
What Kevm14 said. I run full synthetics 0-40 because this is my daily driver with temperatures occasionally below 0 degF.
I appreciate a debate about deeply detailed and long historical subjects like the evolution of motor oil with somewhat scientific data and real world experience to mix in the soup.
We’re only commuting. There’s trucking, F1, off-road, Top Fuel Drag (not gay)Cars, professional and commercial boating, on and on.
There is butt ton of real world data about oil and the combustion motor.
My good friend in the 90’s argued synthetic oil I ran in my motorcycle was no better protection than the Dino oil he ran in his. The whole synthetic thing was a conspiracy to charge us more money!
I serviced high performance fighter jets in the 1970’s, designed and built in 1950’s. Every gearbox on the jets were filled with “full synthetic “. Military and the Rolling Stones were involved in setting the stage for consumer higher price gouging…
More facts from reputable sources are abundant and support why synthetic is superior to dinosaur oil.
I get a little confused sometimes of correct viscosity vs engine vs operating environment.
Once figured out, I try to buy the best oil and filter in addition to timely oil and filter changes are cheap insurance.
JR
Last edited by johnnyrocket52; Nov 27, 2023 at 01:36 AM.
What Kevm14 said. I run full synthetics 0-40 because this is my daily driver with temperatures occasionally below 0 degF.
I appreciate a debate
My good friend in the 90’s argued synthetic oil I ran in my motorcycle was no better protection than the Dino oil he ran in his. The whole synthetic thing was a conspiracy to charge us more money!
JR
a lot of sense in your post - these bits add more
the difference between manu specs, relate to which and the quantity of what additives its got in there (which is why it matters)
on the old fossil air cooled boxer engine's to 2012 on BMW bikes, they would suggest you don't use synthetic oils until you'd done at least 20k miles or it never really got run in - because synthetic oils were so good it didn't clean up the rough surfaces from nasty machining and rough build
the difference between manu specs, relate to which and the quantity of what additives its got in there (which is why it matters)
on the old fossil air cooled boxer engine's to 2012 on BMW bikes, they would suggest you don't use synthetic oils until you'd done at least 20k miles or it never really got run in - because synthetic oils were so good it didn't clean up the rough surfaces from nasty machining and rough build
Yes. In the big oil debates, there’s a lot money in it, for them , but for me it breaks down to simply two things:
1). Combustion engines can serve up toasty temperatures on a hot day in the desert. Depending which testing and oil types, the internet articles about oil vary for synthetic oil breaking down at 450F to 700F and Dino at 250F to 300F. Winner: synthetic.
2). The modern day evolution of the additives separates the men from the boys. Synthetic additives have evolved and Dino oil got left behind with the lawn mowers, sort of (great additives but core Dino oil breaks down much before synthetic). Winner: Full Synthetic European and North American Car Formulas. Hometown boy chooses Mobile-1.
Articles speak to when Dino oil makes sense, Botus breaking in an engine when synthetic is too slick to break in or someone saving money to purchase more beer. Just have to change Dino oil more often, conversely, less beer.
My good friend highlighted the fact back the 60s his Dad changed his Dino oil and filter every other month before it turned dark. When they rebuilt the motor, the insides looked brand new. That there proves Dino oil works good just good as synthetic, and it’s one third the price! Must have only drove it to Church on Sunday.
Now that I reflect back, it’s starting to look like that test was rigged!
In a nutshell, if it meets or exceeds MB 229.5
l push the I believe button, and use it!
JR
Last edited by johnnyrocket52; Nov 29, 2023 at 06:45 PM.
1) lots of progress on material used to make an engine and even more on machining - these days laser sensors check the size live as its being made and clever CNC machines adjust tooling or better still swap tooling to a new one on the fly to compensate
2) cyl head, manifold design, emission control and fuel used is so far forwards its hard to comprehend - its all means the engine operates very differently and burn far closer tot he right stuff the right way. Black engine oil is the debris from wear, cold start contamination, but its mostly combustion gases going past the piston rings.
lots to choose... only one will be the best of mobil one products out there
This product is recommended for use in applications requiring:
APICF
VW503 01
This product meets or exceeds the requirements of:
AAE (STO 003)Group B7
APISJ
APISL
APISM
APISN
APISN PLUS
APISP
ACEA A3/B3
ACEA A3/B4
Ford WSS-M2C937-A
Fiat 9.55535-M2
-
Properties and Specifications
Grade
SAE 0W-40
Flash Point, Cleveland Open Cup, °C, ASTM D92
230
Kinematic Viscosity @ 40 C, mm2/s, ASTM D445
78,3
Kinematic Viscosity @ 100 C, mm2/s, ASTM D445
13,8
Density @ 15.6 C, g/ml, ASTM D4052
0,841
Viscosity Index, ASTM D2270
182
Pour Point, °C, ASTM D97
-42
THE GREEN ONE SAYS • Mobil 1 ESP X3 0W-40 can only be used in the vehicles for which it is approved. It is not backward compatible with vehicle engines requiring an A40, C30 or C20 . ***
*** Always consult the owner's manual of the vehicle for the manufacturer's recommended viscosity grade and specifications
the morons then don't tell you what A40 is (although a Porsche spec is A40)
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James Black - Exxon's science advisor in 1978 There is a "window of five to ten years before the need for hard decisions regarding changes in energy strategy might become critical."
so when your grandchildren are dying in a couple of years... your can be content that
But it does matter for the cold starts. If you get very cold temperatures, like around “0F” and colder, you really need that “0” as the low viscosity indicator on the oil to be able to start the engine with some lubrication flowing in the tiny oil channels right away. I would not risk that with too thick oil in cold temp.
After oil heats up it is fine no matter what the lower number is, the critical time is right after start.
I once looked up the cold pour points for Mobil 1 and they were identical for 0W, 5W, and 10W
These are full synthetics which are basically unphased by ambient temperature. The top number is more relevant to engine design (internal clearances) than it is to ambient temperature. The 0W-16 Toyota currently specifes isn't appropriate for your Mercedes that specifies 5W-40, but both are fine at all temperatures in their proper applications.
If you must know, the 229.5 approval oil made by Mobil and packaged with Mercedes labeling available from dealers is 5W-40
People get all macho about oils for diesels, but 229.51 and 229.52 are not anything better than 229.5 and the 30 spec of those isn't what Mercedes specifies for M273 engine in your S550. 229.51 and 229.52 DO NOT meet specification 229.5. You do not require oil with ash removed to protect your diesel particulate filter ... since you don't have one.
BTW, if you want Mobil 1, Mercedes 229.5 MUST be printed on the bottle.
I once looked up the cold pour points for Mobil 1 and they were identical for 0W, 5W, and 10W
These are full synthetics which are basically unphased by ambient temperature. The top number is more relevant to engine design (internal clearances) than it is to ambient temperature. The 0W-16 Toyota currently specifes isn't appropriate for your Mercedes that specifies 5W-40, but both are fine at all temperatures in their proper applications.
If you must know, the 229.5 approval oil made by Mobil and packaged with Mercedes labeling available from dealers is 5W-40
People get all macho about oils for diesels, but 229.51 and 229.52 are not anything better than 229.5 and the 30 spec of those isn't what Mercedes specifies for M273 engine in your S550. 229.51 and 229.52 DO NOT meet specification 229.5. You do not require oil with ash removed to protect your diesel particulate filter ... since you don't have one.
BTW, if you want Mobil 1, Mercedes 229.5 MUST be printed on the bottle.
thought it of interest.... Zinc is helpful for reducing cam wear, but it messes up CATs so they have been removing it over the years - and some find a rebuilt engine fails - this gives a great insight in to the timeline and the SAE specs related to its removal
All modern motor oils contain some level of ZDDP (Zinc additive), but not enough to protect an older engine, especially during break-in. Most modern motor oils have a maximum of 800 ppm (parts per million) of ZDDP. However, the recommended bare minimum for flat-tappet cam engines and fresh-built engines of all types is 1,000, but most experts agree that 1,200 ppm of ZDDP in your oil is preferred. You must strike a balance on the ZDDP content in your oil if your vehicle has a catalytic converter; this is where the 1,000 ppm level is sufficient. All motor oils have a rating, commonly SH, SJ, and SL. The SH rating was introduced in 1992, and this oil is no longer available and had 1,200 ppm of zinc phosphorous. In 1996, the SJ rating was introduced, and the ppm levels came down to 1,000. The real problems with premature engine wear in older engines and freshly-built flat-tappet engines began in earnest around 2004 when the SM rating was brought out, which further reduced the ZDDP levels to a maximum of 800. You can see the oil rating in the API “donut” graphic, which is required to be on the label. The current API rating is SN, rated for vehicles made after 2010. ZDDP additives are sometimes formulated for both conventional and synthetic oils, you do need to verify that product you choose is ZDDP additive for synthetic oil or for conventional oil to match your preferred type of engine oil. Technically speaking, Zinc oil additives for synthetic is actually ZDTP, Zinc dialkyldithiophosphate, whereas conventional oil Zinc is ZDDP, Zinc Dialkylphophate.
For break-in, you want to see a ZDDP level of 1,400-1,500 ppm for at least the first 500 miles. After that, you can reduce the ZDDP level to 1,000-1,200. This is not a situation of a little is good; more is better. It is imperative that you follow the directions on the ZDDP additive. What you absolutely don’t want to do is to add too much ZDDP. Once you get about 1,500 ppm, ZDDP starts having the opposite effect inside the engine and gets corrosive, which can clog up the oil passages and cause premature wear inside the engine.
its a bit odd I get a follower type noise on my 273 - when running recco MB 229.51, but a 50 50 mix of 229.51 and 229.52 the noise vanishes and has stayed gone thousands of miles later....
got a response on the 222 thread I'd found using search, before I got back to this one... seems they too know about fun with Knock !
Originally Posted by Baltistyle
Agree with most here BUT the newest rating is SP… I think the Takeaway would be that if you are buying an SP spec oil to deal with LSPI, you are not going to want to add another zinc additive on top, especially if there is no tune, and there are cats.
Originally Posted by Senecat
top end rattle when running recco MB 229.51, but a 50 50 mix of 229.51 and 229.52 the noise vanishes and has stayed gone thousands of miles later....
So that specific/precise of a formula was the difference between a tap and silence?
not scientific - it just happens somehow 229.52 helps - both oils were Castrol 5W30 grade - 10W40 did nothing at all to help... in fact that's what it was running when I noticed the top end cam rattle 5 years back
and might as well go here too.... MB 229.71 helps with LSPI
Thanks for sharing that. I will reference this thread and dive deeper once I get the chain tensioners replaced and check valves installed. My timing chains are slapping around something fierce on startup and idle, even at only 52k mi. Can't even hear the turbos spin up on start it's so loud
Thanks for sharing that. I will reference this thread and dive deeper once I get the chain tensioners replaced and check valves installed. My timing chains are slapping around something fierce on startup and idle, even at only 52k mi. Can't even hear the turbos spin up on start it's so loud
Yep mine as well at 67K. Mercedes should have covered those no matter what. It is a design flaw that was addressed in the later models. Not looking forward to doing the job
Yep mine as well at 67K. Mercedes should have covered those no matter what. It is a design flaw that was addressed in the later models. Not looking forward to doing the job
it was built perfectly to specification - the fault lies in your paradigm - the simplest way to correct is to re read you statement with corrected terminology
It is a design FEATURE that was addressed with an even WEAKER simplex chain on later models.
Mercedes SLR McLaren 722 S Is Extremely Rare Example Modified by McLaren
Slideshow: A one-of-one U.S.-spec Mercedes-Benz SLR McLaren Roadster became even rarer after a factory-backed transformation at McLaren's headquarters.
