S class not made in Germany?
09-05-2013, 11:49 AM
#51
MBWorld Fanatic!
I'll thrown in some irrelevant commentary.
You know who I think makes "crummy" parts? The Germans!
My W126 had ENDLESS window regulator issues with the rear windows.....and where were those regulators made?! GERMANY!
The fuel float sensor on my W210 failed EIGHT times - again a part made by Bosch in GERMANY!
More recently I had to replace the plastic coverings on my W211 seat rails - apparently the plasticizers had migrated out of it prematurely - replacement parts came, and the little baggy said the part was MADE IN GERMANY!
So based on those three stand alone data points I will make the conclusion that German made products are crap. I hope everyone realizes the folly of jumping to these conclusions even with isolated data points - let alone making sweeping statements and generalizations about parts made in other countries.
I've heard statements that the interior plastics in the W212 are "crap". Do you really think the country of origin is really at fault? Isn't it more reasonable to assume that a company like Daimler AG has interior systems designers and engineers that specify the performance, appearance and other characteristics of such materials? The transition between design and manufacturing isn't a "throw it over the wall" where the designers say "this is what we want - go make it cheaply, we don't care about anything else"
Finally, the phrase "made in" is a bit of a challenge these days. Let's take a steel spring....was the iron mined in Germany? Was it then milled in Germany? Was it forged in Germany? What about the vanadium that goes in to steel? One of the top countries that supplies vanadium is CHINA! *OMG*. Plastics in general is a more poignant example - where do you define the "made in" for that? Where the oil or gas that forms the plastic polymers comes from? Where the oil or gas is polymerized at an industrial facility in to plastic pellets? Where the pellets are molded or extruded in to product?
My opinion is that the "made in" part is getting to be irrelevant. What is MORE important are the engineering and design standards, and whether or not those standards are being UPHELD by the people who manufacture the product.
Remember when all those horrible Chinese car crash tests appeared on youtube? Do you think they would've been any better had the EXACT same car been made in Germany from German steel? Probably not! Because the Chinese engineers specified a particular thickness, grade, strength of steel, and the design and construction of the vehicle. It would make no difference if the parts and sum of those parts were made or assembled in Germany, Mexico, the USA or elsewhere.
You know who I think makes "crummy" parts? The Germans!
My W126 had ENDLESS window regulator issues with the rear windows.....and where were those regulators made?! GERMANY!
The fuel float sensor on my W210 failed EIGHT times - again a part made by Bosch in GERMANY!
More recently I had to replace the plastic coverings on my W211 seat rails - apparently the plasticizers had migrated out of it prematurely - replacement parts came, and the little baggy said the part was MADE IN GERMANY!
So based on those three stand alone data points I will make the conclusion that German made products are crap. I hope everyone realizes the folly of jumping to these conclusions even with isolated data points - let alone making sweeping statements and generalizations about parts made in other countries.
I've heard statements that the interior plastics in the W212 are "crap". Do you really think the country of origin is really at fault? Isn't it more reasonable to assume that a company like Daimler AG has interior systems designers and engineers that specify the performance, appearance and other characteristics of such materials? The transition between design and manufacturing isn't a "throw it over the wall" where the designers say "this is what we want - go make it cheaply, we don't care about anything else"
Finally, the phrase "made in" is a bit of a challenge these days. Let's take a steel spring....was the iron mined in Germany? Was it then milled in Germany? Was it forged in Germany? What about the vanadium that goes in to steel? One of the top countries that supplies vanadium is CHINA! *OMG*. Plastics in general is a more poignant example - where do you define the "made in" for that? Where the oil or gas that forms the plastic polymers comes from? Where the oil or gas is polymerized at an industrial facility in to plastic pellets? Where the pellets are molded or extruded in to product?
My opinion is that the "made in" part is getting to be irrelevant. What is MORE important are the engineering and design standards, and whether or not those standards are being UPHELD by the people who manufacture the product.
Remember when all those horrible Chinese car crash tests appeared on youtube? Do you think they would've been any better had the EXACT same car been made in Germany from German steel? Probably not! Because the Chinese engineers specified a particular thickness, grade, strength of steel, and the design and construction of the vehicle. It would make no difference if the parts and sum of those parts were made or assembled in Germany, Mexico, the USA or elsewhere.
09-05-2013, 02:25 PM
#52
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2013 650i Coupe, 2010 IS250 AWD, 1999 S500
I'll thrown in some irrelevant commentary.
You know who I think makes "crummy" parts? The Germans!
My W126 had ENDLESS window regulator issues with the rear windows.....and where were those regulators made?! GERMANY!
The fuel float sensor on my W210 failed EIGHT times - again a part made by Bosch in GERMANY!
More recently I had to replace the plastic coverings on my W211 seat rails - apparently the plasticizers had migrated out of it prematurely - replacement parts came, and the little baggy said the part was MADE IN GERMANY!
So based on those three stand alone data points I will make the conclusion that German made products are crap. I hope everyone realizes the folly of jumping to these conclusions even with isolated data points - let alone making sweeping statements and generalizations about parts made in other countries.
I've heard statements that the interior plastics in the W212 are "crap". Do you really think the country of origin is really at fault? Isn't it more reasonable to assume that a company like Daimler AG has interior systems designers and engineers that specify the performance, appearance and other characteristics of such materials? The transition between design and manufacturing isn't a "throw it over the wall" where the designers say "this is what we want - go make it cheaply, we don't care about anything else"
Finally, the phrase "made in" is a bit of a challenge these days. Let's take a steel spring....was the iron mined in Germany? Was it then milled in Germany? Was it forged in Germany? What about the vanadium that goes in to steel? One of the top countries that supplies vanadium is CHINA! *OMG*. Plastics in general is a more poignant example - where do you define the "made in" for that? Where the oil or gas that forms the plastic polymers comes from? Where the oil or gas is polymerized at an industrial facility in to plastic pellets? Where the pellets are molded or extruded in to product?
My opinion is that the "made in" part is getting to be irrelevant. What is MORE important are the engineering and design standards, and whether or not those standards are being UPHELD by the people who manufacture the product.
Remember when all those horrible Chinese car crash tests appeared on youtube? Do you think they would've been any better had the EXACT same car been made in Germany from German steel? Probably not! Because the Chinese engineers specified a particular thickness, grade, strength of steel, and the design and construction of the vehicle. It would make no difference if the parts and sum of those parts were made or assembled in Germany, Mexico, the USA or elsewhere.
You know who I think makes "crummy" parts? The Germans!
My W126 had ENDLESS window regulator issues with the rear windows.....and where were those regulators made?! GERMANY!
The fuel float sensor on my W210 failed EIGHT times - again a part made by Bosch in GERMANY!
More recently I had to replace the plastic coverings on my W211 seat rails - apparently the plasticizers had migrated out of it prematurely - replacement parts came, and the little baggy said the part was MADE IN GERMANY!
So based on those three stand alone data points I will make the conclusion that German made products are crap. I hope everyone realizes the folly of jumping to these conclusions even with isolated data points - let alone making sweeping statements and generalizations about parts made in other countries.
I've heard statements that the interior plastics in the W212 are "crap". Do you really think the country of origin is really at fault? Isn't it more reasonable to assume that a company like Daimler AG has interior systems designers and engineers that specify the performance, appearance and other characteristics of such materials? The transition between design and manufacturing isn't a "throw it over the wall" where the designers say "this is what we want - go make it cheaply, we don't care about anything else"
Finally, the phrase "made in" is a bit of a challenge these days. Let's take a steel spring....was the iron mined in Germany? Was it then milled in Germany? Was it forged in Germany? What about the vanadium that goes in to steel? One of the top countries that supplies vanadium is CHINA! *OMG*. Plastics in general is a more poignant example - where do you define the "made in" for that? Where the oil or gas that forms the plastic polymers comes from? Where the oil or gas is polymerized at an industrial facility in to plastic pellets? Where the pellets are molded or extruded in to product?
My opinion is that the "made in" part is getting to be irrelevant. What is MORE important are the engineering and design standards, and whether or not those standards are being UPHELD by the people who manufacture the product.
Remember when all those horrible Chinese car crash tests appeared on youtube? Do you think they would've been any better had the EXACT same car been made in Germany from German steel? Probably not! Because the Chinese engineers specified a particular thickness, grade, strength of steel, and the design and construction of the vehicle. It would make no difference if the parts and sum of those parts were made or assembled in Germany, Mexico, the USA or elsewhere.
I agree.
M
09-05-2013, 02:41 PM
#53
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S, GL, Escalade ESV, my shoes
So in other words you have nothing to back up anything you've stated here about Chinese parts being a problem.
You don't know what the Chinese parts are.
You don't know what the affects are by having Chinese parts.
NONE of what you're talking about has to do with Chinese parts. The engine? Man stop it, you're reaching now. NOTHING to do with Chinese part/content.
What you're talking about is engineering, not sheer parts related things.
M
You don't know what the Chinese parts are.
You don't know what the affects are by having Chinese parts.
NONE of what you're talking about has to do with Chinese parts. The engine? Man stop it, you're reaching now. NOTHING to do with Chinese part/content.
What you're talking about is engineering, not sheer parts related things.
M
Matter of fact, if Mercedes dictate that they would pay at most $10 for certain part, you might end up getting higher quality part from the Chinese vendor than from a Korean or German ones, due to lower labor & manufacturing cost.
Nobody seem to complain about all of the iphone & ipad & galaxy come from China, and all see them as symbol of high quality, yet everyone complain when it come to "part" that come from China.
Just FYI, whether you fly on Boeing or Airbus, both have lot of part made in China, a lot !!!.
Last edited by zam2000; 09-05-2013 at 02:44 PM.
09-05-2013, 10:31 PM
#55
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2012 C300 Sport 4MATIC (current) 2006 C280 Elegance 4MATIC (sold)
I'll thrown in some irrelevant commentary.
You know who I think makes "crummy" parts? The Germans!
My W126 had ENDLESS window regulator issues with the rear windows.....and where were those regulators made?! GERMANY!
The fuel float sensor on my W210 failed EIGHT times - again a part made by Bosch in GERMANY!
More recently I had to replace the plastic coverings on my W211 seat rails - apparently the plasticizers had migrated out of it prematurely - replacement parts came, and the little baggy said the part was MADE IN GERMANY!
So based on those three stand alone data points I will make the conclusion that German made products are crap. I hope everyone realizes the folly of jumping to these conclusions even with isolated data points - let alone making sweeping statements and generalizations about parts made in other countries.
I've heard statements that the interior plastics in the W212 are "crap". Do you really think the country of origin is really at fault? Isn't it more reasonable to assume that a company like Daimler AG has interior systems designers and engineers that specify the performance, appearance and other characteristics of such materials? The transition between design and manufacturing isn't a "throw it over the wall" where the designers say "this is what we want - go make it cheaply, we don't care about anything else"
Finally, the phrase "made in" is a bit of a challenge these days. Let's take a steel spring....was the iron mined in Germany? Was it then milled in Germany? Was it forged in Germany? What about the vanadium that goes in to steel? One of the top countries that supplies vanadium is CHINA! *OMG*. Plastics in general is a more poignant example - where do you define the "made in" for that? Where the oil or gas that forms the plastic polymers comes from? Where the oil or gas is polymerized at an industrial facility in to plastic pellets? Where the pellets are molded or extruded in to product?
My opinion is that the "made in" part is getting to be irrelevant. What is MORE important are the engineering and design standards, and whether or not those standards are being UPHELD by the people who manufacture the product.
Remember when all those horrible Chinese car crash tests appeared on youtube? Do you think they would've been any better had the EXACT same car been made in Germany from German steel? Probably not! Because the Chinese engineers specified a particular thickness, grade, strength of steel, and the design and construction of the vehicle. It would make no difference if the parts and sum of those parts were made or assembled in Germany, Mexico, the USA or elsewhere.
You know who I think makes "crummy" parts? The Germans!
My W126 had ENDLESS window regulator issues with the rear windows.....and where were those regulators made?! GERMANY!
The fuel float sensor on my W210 failed EIGHT times - again a part made by Bosch in GERMANY!
More recently I had to replace the plastic coverings on my W211 seat rails - apparently the plasticizers had migrated out of it prematurely - replacement parts came, and the little baggy said the part was MADE IN GERMANY!
So based on those three stand alone data points I will make the conclusion that German made products are crap. I hope everyone realizes the folly of jumping to these conclusions even with isolated data points - let alone making sweeping statements and generalizations about parts made in other countries.
I've heard statements that the interior plastics in the W212 are "crap". Do you really think the country of origin is really at fault? Isn't it more reasonable to assume that a company like Daimler AG has interior systems designers and engineers that specify the performance, appearance and other characteristics of such materials? The transition between design and manufacturing isn't a "throw it over the wall" where the designers say "this is what we want - go make it cheaply, we don't care about anything else"
Finally, the phrase "made in" is a bit of a challenge these days. Let's take a steel spring....was the iron mined in Germany? Was it then milled in Germany? Was it forged in Germany? What about the vanadium that goes in to steel? One of the top countries that supplies vanadium is CHINA! *OMG*. Plastics in general is a more poignant example - where do you define the "made in" for that? Where the oil or gas that forms the plastic polymers comes from? Where the oil or gas is polymerized at an industrial facility in to plastic pellets? Where the pellets are molded or extruded in to product?
My opinion is that the "made in" part is getting to be irrelevant. What is MORE important are the engineering and design standards, and whether or not those standards are being UPHELD by the people who manufacture the product.
Remember when all those horrible Chinese car crash tests appeared on youtube? Do you think they would've been any better had the EXACT same car been made in Germany from German steel? Probably not! Because the Chinese engineers specified a particular thickness, grade, strength of steel, and the design and construction of the vehicle. It would make no difference if the parts and sum of those parts were made or assembled in Germany, Mexico, the USA or elsewhere.
09-06-2013, 02:20 AM
#56
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are you still grieving about getting rid of your E, and trying to justify your poor decision making on getting the 5 Series?
We got it, you are now a BMW freak, that's cool. Now go play in your own sand box. Don't try to convert the congregation by starting to dis the MB product, which up to your BMW purchase you were so proud of. Next you buy an Audi, and BMW goes down the drain???
Wonder what percentage of chinese parts content is on your phone you use, the things you buy, or the cloth you wear?
09-06-2013, 01:27 PM
#57
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Porsche Macan S SportDesign / Ex M-B's: 11 & 10 & 06 E350's, 02 S500
Mr. Know All (is that what KA stands for?),
are you still grieving about getting rid of your E, and trying to justify your poor decision making on getting the 5 Series?
We got it, you are now a BMW freak, that's cool. Now go play in your own sand box. Don't try to convert the congregation by starting to dis the MB product, which up to your BMW purchase you were so proud of. Next you buy an Audi, and BMW goes down the drain???
Wonder what percentage of chinese parts content is on your phone you use, the things you buy, or the cloth you wear?
are you still grieving about getting rid of your E, and trying to justify your poor decision making on getting the 5 Series?
We got it, you are now a BMW freak, that's cool. Now go play in your own sand box. Don't try to convert the congregation by starting to dis the MB product, which up to your BMW purchase you were so proud of. Next you buy an Audi, and BMW goes down the drain???
Wonder what percentage of chinese parts content is on your phone you use, the things you buy, or the cloth you wear?
And I use a piece of crap Samsung phone so it using Chinese parts isn't a good case to justify a premium priced "German" car using half cheap Chinese parts to make up its totality.
09-06-2013, 01:30 PM
#58
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Porsche Macan S SportDesign / Ex M-B's: 11 & 10 & 06 E350's, 02 S500
I don't mean to turn this into a political discussion, but K-A sounds like one of those American left-wings who once they are comprehensibly owned, they derail the discussion.
Much like Bill Maher, who recently went on to say that the Tea Party only opposes Obama's intervention in Syria, because he's black and yet the same Maher and his left-wing cronies railed against Bush's intervention in Iraq. What a hypocrite.
But, anyway, back to topic, the country where the car is built doesn't really matter as long the build quality is not diminished.
Much like Bill Maher, who recently went on to say that the Tea Party only opposes Obama's intervention in Syria, because he's black and yet the same Maher and his left-wing cronies railed against Bush's intervention in Iraq. What a hypocrite.
But, anyway, back to topic, the country where the car is built doesn't really matter as long the build quality is not diminished.
And yes, you best stay away from political bs.
09-06-2013, 02:50 PM
#59
For example I could say any number of factual statements:
Well material quality has been diminished, and Daimler and Chrysler are no longer together, so do the math.
Well material quality has been diminished, and the time it takes develop and design a car has decreased by 40%, so do the math.
Well material quality has been diminished, and the Democrats made it to the Whitehouse, so do the math.
I hope when things are abstracted out like this, we can see the danger of making sweeping generalizations.
These concepts of observations, facts, variables and causes are basic tenants of modern science education and technique - even at the grade-school level.
09-06-2013, 03:31 PM
#60
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That's all fine but I don't want a car with class leading Chinese materials and that's what the E Class has become.
09-06-2013, 04:54 PM
#61
MBWorld Fanatic!
K-A, I see you are no more popular here than on the E Forum. You have become a troll and a bore.
As far as the parts in a Mercedes, it is irrelevant where they are made but rather the design and specifications. MB applies the same rigid quality control for all parts regardless where they are manufactured.
Like your dumb argument about the "rough" ride of the E. That is by design and not where the suspension was built. Suppliers have no autonomy on specs. Anyone with at least a room temperature IQ knows that.
As usual, you pontificate on things you know nothing about. Go away, you are like three day old fish.
As far as the parts in a Mercedes, it is irrelevant where they are made but rather the design and specifications. MB applies the same rigid quality control for all parts regardless where they are manufactured.
Like your dumb argument about the "rough" ride of the E. That is by design and not where the suspension was built. Suppliers have no autonomy on specs. Anyone with at least a room temperature IQ knows that.
As usual, you pontificate on things you know nothing about. Go away, you are like three day old fish.
Last edited by petee1997; 09-06-2013 at 06:41 PM.
09-06-2013, 06:25 PM
#62
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It's like talking to an older relative who has lost their reasoning/thinking skills, but one that DOES NOT suffer from dementia. Once they have something in their mind they can't accept or understand anything else.
First it was the engine, then the suspension, now it is the interior. Chinese made.
Nevermind we have no proof of this. He says "do the math", but what math is that? Imaginary?
Now I've got to look at a U.S. market E-Class sticker to see what the percentages are.
M
First it was the engine, then the suspension, now it is the interior. Chinese made.
Nevermind we have no proof of this. He says "do the math", but what math is that? Imaginary?
Now I've got to look at a U.S. market E-Class sticker to see what the percentages are.
M
Last edited by Germancar1; 09-06-2013 at 10:13 PM.
09-06-2013, 06:40 PM
#63
I know I would have an issue if a bottle of Maker's Mark Bourbon suddenly said "Distilled and Aged in New York City" - because Maker's Mark doesn't come from a big city in the northeast - it comes from a small town in Kentucky which has that allure of timelessness, and tradition deep in the American backbone.
"Quality; you know what it is yet you don't know what it is but that's self -contradictory. That some things are better than others, that is, they have more quality, but when you try to say what that quality is, apart from the things that have it, it all goes poof. There's nothing to talk about. But if you cannot say what Quality is, then how do you know what it is? How do you know that it even exists? If no one knows what it is …but what else are grades based on? Why else would people pay fortunes for some things and throw others in the trash pile? Obviously some things are better than others then what's the betterness? So round and round you go, spinning mental wheels and nowhere finding any place to get traction . What is Quality? What is it?"
Zen and the Art of Motorcycle Maintenance; Robert M. Pirsig
09-06-2013, 07:37 PM
#64
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And that's perfectly acceptable - if psychologically you find the idea of Chinese parts in a car that has historically German origins repulsive, then that's fine. There are choices.
I know I would have an issue if a bottle of Maker's Mark Bourbon suddenly said "Distilled and Aged in New York City" - because Maker's Mark doesn't come from a big city in the northeast - it comes from a small town in Kentucky which has that allure of timelessness, and tradition deep in the American backbone.
"Quality; you know what it is yet you don't know what it is but that's self -contradictory. That some things are better than others, that is, they have more quality, but when you try to say what that quality is, apart from the things that have it, it all goes poof. There's nothing to talk about. But if you cannot say what Quality is, then how do you know what it is? How do you know that it even exists? If no one knows what it is …but what else are grades based on? Why else would people pay fortunes for some things and throw others in the trash pile? Obviously some things are better than others then what's the betterness? So round and round you go, spinning mental wheels and nowhere finding any place to get traction . What is Quality? What is it?"
Zen and the Art of Motorcycle Maintenance; Robert M. Pirsig
I know I would have an issue if a bottle of Maker's Mark Bourbon suddenly said "Distilled and Aged in New York City" - because Maker's Mark doesn't come from a big city in the northeast - it comes from a small town in Kentucky which has that allure of timelessness, and tradition deep in the American backbone.
"Quality; you know what it is yet you don't know what it is but that's self -contradictory. That some things are better than others, that is, they have more quality, but when you try to say what that quality is, apart from the things that have it, it all goes poof. There's nothing to talk about. But if you cannot say what Quality is, then how do you know what it is? How do you know that it even exists? If no one knows what it is …but what else are grades based on? Why else would people pay fortunes for some things and throw others in the trash pile? Obviously some things are better than others then what's the betterness? So round and round you go, spinning mental wheels and nowhere finding any place to get traction . What is Quality? What is it?"
Zen and the Art of Motorcycle Maintenance; Robert M. Pirsig
09-06-2013, 10:34 PM
#65
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K-A, I see you are no more popular here than on the E Forum. You have become a troll and a bore.
As far as the parts in a Mercedes, it is irrelevant where they are made but rather the design and specifications. MB applies the same rigid quality control for all parts regardless where they are manufactured.
Like your dumb argument about the "rough" ride of the E. That is by design and not where the suspension was built. Suppliers have no autonomy on specs. Anyone with at least a room temperature IQ knows that.
As usual, you pontificate on things you know nothing about. Go away, you are like three day old fish.
As far as the parts in a Mercedes, it is irrelevant where they are made but rather the design and specifications. MB applies the same rigid quality control for all parts regardless where they are manufactured.
Like your dumb argument about the "rough" ride of the E. That is by design and not where the suspension was built. Suppliers have no autonomy on specs. Anyone with at least a room temperature IQ knows that.
As usual, you pontificate on things you know nothing about. Go away, you are like three day old fish.
Spine rattling over rough roads and floaty as an old Caddy through turns.... Where do I sign up?
Apl: I very well get that and fully understand it might be more psychology based, but I simply wouldn't buy an MB with almost half Chinese parts and 25% less German parts than its closest competitor. Especially when I feel like it's at least 25% less quality of a car.
09-07-2013, 10:57 AM
#66
MBWorld Fanatic!
And yet you follow me all over the car-net with nothing to fend my arguments, instead resorting to the losing "argument" of personal ad hominem tirades. And oh yeah, sure, if the crap ride in the E Class is by design then MB is designing crap. No other way around it.
Spine rattling over rough roads and floaty as an old Caddy through turns.... Where do I sign up?
Apl: I very well get that and fully understand it might be more psychology based, but I simply wouldn't buy an MB with almost half Chinese parts and 25% less German parts than its closest competitor. Especially when I feel like it's at least 25% less quality of a car.
Spine rattling over rough roads and floaty as an old Caddy through turns.... Where do I sign up?
Apl: I very well get that and fully understand it might be more psychology based, but I simply wouldn't buy an MB with almost half Chinese parts and 25% less German parts than its closest competitor. Especially when I feel like it's at least 25% less quality of a car.
I really like the line from "Joyride" ...K-A = Know it All. How fitting!
Last edited by petee1997; 09-07-2013 at 11:02 AM.
09-08-2013, 12:42 AM
#67
And yet you follow me all over the car-net with nothing to fend my arguments, instead resorting to the losing "argument" of personal ad hominem tirades. And oh yeah, sure, if the crap ride in the E Class is by design then MB is designing crap. No other way around it.
Spine rattling over rough roads and floaty as an old Caddy through turns.... Where do I sign up?
Apl: I very well get that and fully understand it might be more psychology based, but I simply wouldn't buy an MB with almost half Chinese parts and 25% less German parts than its closest competitor. Especially when I feel like it's at least 25% less quality of a car.
Spine rattling over rough roads and floaty as an old Caddy through turns.... Where do I sign up?
Apl: I very well get that and fully understand it might be more psychology based, but I simply wouldn't buy an MB with almost half Chinese parts and 25% less German parts than its closest competitor. Especially when I feel like it's at least 25% less quality of a car.
10-14-2013, 04:05 AM
#68
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You give me a choice of German or Chinese parts and I'll choose German every time, I'll pay more for it too (isn't that the entire point of an imported prestigious brand?). Sourced from China and made in Mexico? Uhh, yeah you better discount the price of the car then, even if it was conceived in a German building.
HAHAHA funniest thing about this is BMW makes their car frames in CHINA! The most important part of the car. The chinese even use the same frames for their own branded cars (i swear it, look it up) i forget the brands but they look alot like BMW's
http://en.brilliance-auto.com/chanpi...status=1&mid=3
5 Series anyone?
http://www.thetruthaboutcars.com/201...hina-5-series/
LOL. Mercedes would NEVER do this.
Guess when you have a car that is 95% plastic inside 
, guess a 5 year old chinese kid is a better financial choice. forget the made in china frame, just make the whole thing there right?
10-14-2013, 04:33 AM
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Porsche Macan S SportDesign / Ex M-B's: 11 & 10 & 06 E350's, 02 S500
Chinese manufacturers rip off everyone, BMW doesn't "share" their frames with outsiders much if at all. Mercedes actually shares their frames with far more manufacturers across the board, many of their previous model "frames" (chassis) running around on other manufacturers cars.
The frames of BMW's are stronger than M-B frames, factually/statistically speaking anyway, and BMW actually manufacturing Chinese models in China is like M-B/BMW making American intended cars in America. If M-B isn't already ramping up on Chinese production for China based cars, then they will when they actually start getting competitive in market share in China.
The frames of BMW's are stronger than M-B frames, factually/statistically speaking anyway, and BMW actually manufacturing Chinese models in China is like M-B/BMW making American intended cars in America. If M-B isn't already ramping up on Chinese production for China based cars, then they will when they actually start getting competitive in market share in China.
Last edited by K-A; 10-14-2013 at 04:38 AM.
10-14-2013, 10:18 AM
#70
MBWorld Fanatic!
How do you explain why BMW did not make the list of the seven safest cars? MB had two.
Again more useless noise coming from Mr. Know it All i.e. KA
Again more useless noise coming from Mr. Know it All i.e. KA
10-14-2013, 02:00 PM
#71
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Porsche Macan S SportDesign / Ex M-B's: 11 & 10 & 06 E350's, 02 S500
My 5 Series is rated as safer than my old E Classes via various testers so that's what matters to me.
10-14-2013, 09:11 PM
#72
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C55 / S550 / Lexus IS300 (sold) / C63 (Sold) / SL500 (Sold) / Lambo Gallardo (RIP)
Chinese manufacturers rip off everyone, BMW doesn't "share" their frames with outsiders much if at all. Mercedes actually shares their frames with far more manufacturers across the board, many of their previous model "frames" (chassis) running around on other manufacturers cars.
The frames of BMW's are stronger than M-B frames, factually/statistically speaking anyway, and BMW actually manufacturing Chinese models in China is like M-B/BMW making American intended cars in America. If M-B isn't already ramping up on Chinese production for China based cars, then they will when they actually start getting competitive in market share in China.
The frames of BMW's are stronger than M-B frames, factually/statistically speaking anyway, and BMW actually manufacturing Chinese models in China is like M-B/BMW making American intended cars in America. If M-B isn't already ramping up on Chinese production for China based cars, then they will when they actually start getting competitive in market share in China.
10-14-2013, 09:52 PM
#73
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Porsche Macan S SportDesign / Ex M-B's: 11 & 10 & 06 E350's, 02 S500
Like I said, if M-B can attain enough growth/volume in China they will probably do the same (if they aren't already). BMW AG for better or worser are leading the auto industry in business practice, while M-B lag far behind with a trailing stock, diminishing market value compared to their peers (recent analysis valued it at half of what BMW is worth, which shows a catastrophic dent to what was once the most valuable Luxury automotive brand) and lots of investor scrutiny due to following their competitors' leads instead of leading them, not to mention vastly trailing profitability/margins.
The F10 frame is 30% stiffer than the stiffest M-B frame before the W222 came out (which in itself is barely stiffer than the F10 frame), so who cares where it's made (Germany, btw). The links you provided don't say anything more than BMW supplying LONG-WHEELBASE (only a China model right now) Chinese based 5 Series to possibly surrounding areas, as it's effective considering their booming business out there (no different than M-B supplying American made M-B's to America, let's not forget rumors about Mexican M-B production listed in this very thread). And don't discount Chinese assembly, it's far more efficient than U.S assembly, which frankly doesn't have the greatest track record. There's no proof that BMW makes the 5 Series "frame" from China because that proof doesn't exist, as it's false.
M-B have their chassis' riding under various Dodge/Chrysler cars and the ML chassis basis is under the current Jeep GC. They are either currently or in the future sharing platforms/drivetrains with Nissan-Renault-Infiniti, not to mention drive trains. There are more cars you'll see M-B components in or under which are escaping me at the moment (Tesla being another, as Daimler has a vested interest).
....Oh, and of course Mercedes' components being under various manufacturers cars isn't enough, they actually HAVE got the wheels in motion for sharing platforms with their Chinese partner (Daimler has more "share" partnerships across the automotive board than about anybody, btw) BAIC:
Mercedes considering sharing platforms with China partner
Read more at http://www.leftlanenews.com/mercedes...w7tRqrrDVyK.99
Oh, then there's this, confirming what I already told you:
Capacity Expansion
"Daimler will also increase its production capacity of Mercedes cars in China. It currently imports nearly half of its cars, and therefore ends up paying a hefty 25% excise duty. By expanding its Chinese capacity, Mercedes will reduce the number of imported cars to nearly one-third of its total sales, cutting costs and helping Daimler compete more effectively with its rivals in terms of price."
From this article:
Mercedes Emulates Audi in China's Booming Luxury Cars Market
http://www.fool.com/investing/genera...luxury-ca.aspx
Class dismissed.
The F10 frame is 30% stiffer than the stiffest M-B frame before the W222 came out (which in itself is barely stiffer than the F10 frame), so who cares where it's made (Germany, btw). The links you provided don't say anything more than BMW supplying LONG-WHEELBASE (only a China model right now) Chinese based 5 Series to possibly surrounding areas, as it's effective considering their booming business out there (no different than M-B supplying American made M-B's to America, let's not forget rumors about Mexican M-B production listed in this very thread). And don't discount Chinese assembly, it's far more efficient than U.S assembly, which frankly doesn't have the greatest track record. There's no proof that BMW makes the 5 Series "frame" from China because that proof doesn't exist, as it's false.
M-B have their chassis' riding under various Dodge/Chrysler cars and the ML chassis basis is under the current Jeep GC. They are either currently or in the future sharing platforms/drivetrains with Nissan-Renault-Infiniti, not to mention drive trains. There are more cars you'll see M-B components in or under which are escaping me at the moment (Tesla being another, as Daimler has a vested interest).
....Oh, and of course Mercedes' components being under various manufacturers cars isn't enough, they actually HAVE got the wheels in motion for sharing platforms with their Chinese partner (Daimler has more "share" partnerships across the automotive board than about anybody, btw) BAIC:
Mercedes considering sharing platforms with China partner
Read more at http://www.leftlanenews.com/mercedes...w7tRqrrDVyK.99
Oh, then there's this, confirming what I already told you:
Capacity Expansion
"Daimler will also increase its production capacity of Mercedes cars in China. It currently imports nearly half of its cars, and therefore ends up paying a hefty 25% excise duty. By expanding its Chinese capacity, Mercedes will reduce the number of imported cars to nearly one-third of its total sales, cutting costs and helping Daimler compete more effectively with its rivals in terms of price."
From this article:
Mercedes Emulates Audi in China's Booming Luxury Cars Market
http://www.fool.com/investing/genera...luxury-ca.aspx
Class dismissed.
Last edited by K-A; 10-14-2013 at 10:06 PM.
10-14-2013, 10:11 PM
#74
Senior Member
I'd just like to add that despite the F10's so called higher % of Made in Germany parts look at all these issues the F10 is plagued with:
1. Consolidated list of F10 Problems.
2. Run Flat Tire Failures.
3. Navigation issues.
My 2013 E350BT with it's alleged 40% Made In China parts have been flawless after almost 20,000 miles.
It's NAV screen may be smaller than the F10 but it's performance has been faultless.
My 2010 BMW 335D on the other hand with it's higher % of Made In Germany parts started giving me problems after 65,000 miles with Injector failure (Bosh Made), ECU (DDE) had to be replaced, Intake Manifold had to be replaced and cylinder head had to be cleaned off carbon build-up with a total costs of over $13,000.00!
After that I quickly traded it in for the E350BT!
So Mr K-A is welcomed to keep his F10 + all it's issues while I won't go near another BMW (Bring More Worries) and am happy with my M-B.
At least with M-B each model is distinct in design unlike BMW where the F10 looks like a bloated F30 and a smaller 7 Series.
1. Consolidated list of F10 Problems.
2. Run Flat Tire Failures.
3. Navigation issues.
My 2013 E350BT with it's alleged 40% Made In China parts have been flawless after almost 20,000 miles.
It's NAV screen may be smaller than the F10 but it's performance has been faultless.
My 2010 BMW 335D on the other hand with it's higher % of Made In Germany parts started giving me problems after 65,000 miles with Injector failure (Bosh Made), ECU (DDE) had to be replaced, Intake Manifold had to be replaced and cylinder head had to be cleaned off carbon build-up with a total costs of over $13,000.00!
After that I quickly traded it in for the E350BT!
So Mr K-A is welcomed to keep his F10 + all it's issues while I won't go near another BMW (Bring More Worries) and am happy with my M-B.
At least with M-B each model is distinct in design unlike BMW where the F10 looks like a bloated F30 and a smaller 7 Series.
10-14-2013, 10:20 PM
#75
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Porsche Macan S SportDesign / Ex M-B's: 11 & 10 & 06 E350's, 02 S500
I'd just like to add that despite the F10's so called higher % of Made in Germany parts look at all these issues the F10 is plagued with:
1. Consolidated list of F10 Problems.
2. Run Flat Tire Failures.
3. Navigation issues.
My 2013 E350BT with it's alleged 40% Made In China parts have been flawless after almost 20,000 miles.
It's NAV screen may be smaller than the F10 but it's performance has been faultless.
My 2010 BMW 335D on the other hand with it's higher % of Made In Germany parts started giving me problems after 65,000 miles with Injector failure (Bosh Made), ECU (DDE) had to be replaced, Intake Manifold had to be replaced and cylinder head had to be cleaned off carbon build-up with a total costs of over $13,000.00!
After that I quickly traded it in for the E350BT!
So Mr K-A is welcomed to keep his F10 + all it's issues while I won't go near another BMW (Bring More Worries) and am happy with my M-B.
At least with M-B each model is distinct in design unlike BMW where the F10 looks like a bloated F30 and a smaller 7 Series.
1. Consolidated list of F10 Problems.
2. Run Flat Tire Failures.
3. Navigation issues.
My 2013 E350BT with it's alleged 40% Made In China parts have been flawless after almost 20,000 miles.
It's NAV screen may be smaller than the F10 but it's performance has been faultless.
My 2010 BMW 335D on the other hand with it's higher % of Made In Germany parts started giving me problems after 65,000 miles with Injector failure (Bosh Made), ECU (DDE) had to be replaced, Intake Manifold had to be replaced and cylinder head had to be cleaned off carbon build-up with a total costs of over $13,000.00!
After that I quickly traded it in for the E350BT!
So Mr K-A is welcomed to keep his F10 + all it's issues while I won't go near another BMW (Bring More Worries) and am happy with my M-B.
At least with M-B each model is distinct in design unlike BMW where the F10 looks like a bloated F30 and a smaller 7 Series.
All of my M-B's had enough finish or mechanical issues to get me into M-B loaners very early on in my experiences with them. My F10 has actually been my most reliable/quality new car to date, so far.
The 2013 iDrive Navigation is VASTLY superior to my 2011 E's navigation. '13 BMW's got a much enhanced iDrive which works superbly and in my opinion truly makes COMAND look and feel Atari-grade ancient. The 2014 5 Series LCI (facelift) models also get a once-again improved Nav and interface with a touchpad which is apparently even more excellent.
The E Class Chinese part content was refuted in another thread and I may have been off base on that. 2010/2011 E Classes had a separate sticker stating only 50-55% German content and most of the rest Chinese, while when M-B moved to the new MSRP window stickers in 2012 all of a sudden it showed 73% German content on the window sticker itself, comparable with the 5 Series.
Maybe there's some funny business going on there, maybe not, maybe I'm remembering it wrong (99% sure I'm not as it was an issue to me when I was seeing that separate 50-55% sticker on both of my 2010/2011 E350's when acquiring, then going next door to BMW and seeing 75% on the 535i) but I digress for the sake of the forum and assume the E and 5 have basically the same German part content.
Last edited by K-A; 10-14-2013 at 10:24 PM.
