Mike5215

Folks who feel strongly about pollution drive the Prius or the Leaf. The relatively flashy Tesla S is too much money and sends the wrong message. When you drive a Prius or a Leaf you're demonstrating just how much you're willing to sacrifice for your beliefs.

The Tesla is another animal. It's not really about conserving energy. It's about making electricity your b*tch.

WEBSRFR

The sheer power of the Tesla drive-train is impressive and I think that last sentence of yours described the end result very eloquently To put that power in perspective, a Toyota Prius plug-in has a 4.4 kWh battery while the Tesla Model S has a capacity of 85 kWh.

Mercedes does have a high performance all electric EV, the SLS Electric, but even that only has a 60 kWh battery pack and it costs over $500,000!

For the level of power and sophistication of the drive-train I consider a Model S P85 to be a bargain. I found a nice review of the all electric Mercedes AMG, the SLS Electric, and perhaps it is a glimpse of what to come with an eventual all electric high performance S class. It's good to see Mercedes working on high performance all electric drive-trains.

http://www.caranddriver.com/reviews/...t-drive-review

And this is Mercedes' high performance EV technology touring Nürburgring. If they ever put this technology into an E class or S class size vehicle with a a higher-end Mercedes premium interior and the associated luxury accoutrements, it would offer the Model S some compelling competition. Currently the Model S really has no other vehicle that I consider to be a compelling competitor.

When you watch the video, listen to the sound of the Mercedes AMG electric motor spool up as it accelerates. It's very similar to the sound I heard with the P85 I test drove as I accelerated to around 100 from 40. My girlfriend calls it the "spaceship sound" and I love that sound. Also notice how the acceleration of the Mercedes electric AMG is all linear with no transmission to get in its way. This technology is the future of the car as far as I'm concerned.

petrovic

does anyone know if you can get those wheels on a 2008 E63

hyperion667

yes! spaceship sound!
the would seal the deal for me

K-A

Not sure how it measures up between the two, but I'd assume the Tesla being an EV should in the long run produce significantly less "pollution" than the Prius which still runs and charges on gas. I think Hybrid's are the most pointless concept in the long term. Just an interim between the gas age and the EV age. I personally prefer one of the two extremes, Hybrid's are a waste of time and resources (i.e the more we fiddle with Hybrid's, the less R&D innovation we get into EV's which doesn't help speed the process up, into the inevitable).

And I noticed that about her stomach too. Pretty girl, maybe a few too many beers (or a baby on deck?).

Mike5215

Yeah, she has low muscle tone, but I'd still bone her. Heck, give me enough beer and I'd probably take a crack at one of those penguins, too.

WEBSRFR

Hybrids are complete BS. Few people in their right mind paying for a premium luxury car will put up with the compromised mess offered by a hybrid car. Basically you get neither a great gasoline car nor a great electric car. The Mercedes E400 hybrid is apparently the slowest selling car for Mercedes and it is apparently the second worst selling car of any automaker last month! I doubt the upcoming W222 hybrid is going to do any better. The sooner Mercedes stops with the hybrid nonsense and start building premium EV performance cars the less money they will loose building hybrids no one wants to buy.

http://www.benzinsider.com/2014/05/t...mercedes-benz/

K-A

WOW, didn't know it sold that bad! lol.

IMO Mercedes is occasionally very slow to adapt to changing trends in the marketplace, then when they do, the forefronters are usually onto something else while M-B is making up for lost time by diving in head first and over-compensating. Right now we see it with the Hybrids. IMO it's like Mercedes is trying to recapture the glory of the age where the Prius was seen as the "future of transport" back in '08-ish or whatever. Hence them going in so strong with Hybrids still. Of course, they aren't the only ones churning out Hybrids, but especially considering how they invested in Tesla but didn't take the steps to secure their own place in the current small but growing realm of EV's, it seems like a missed opportunity thus far.

Hybrid's will be forgotten in the future. Basically a bridge from gasoline to electric. Not to mention, they aren't fully sustainable, not to mention again, they're even MORE complex than a traditional gas or electric car. Usually, Hybrid's are the heaviest in the model range due to the large battery/electric power train aspects mixed with the engine. It doesn't give you the truest benefits of an EV, which is no engine, no oil, no gas, no transmission, and no complexities that comes with that, etc. Not to mention, Hybrid's aren't all that environmentally great as they have again, an engine AND a large battery, and still contribute pollutant fumes when the engine is engaged.

LovinMercedes

This won't help Tesla. S&P rating goes to junk bond.

http://www.forbes.com/sites/stevesch...able-business/

WEBSRFR

It' not their stock but bonds to build the $5 billion battery plant. Obviously that's a risky proposition and they are betting the whole house that by 2020 they will be building 500,000 cars a year and that's a 10X increase over their current 50,000. Time will tell if this is a naive venture or a brilliant move to take over the EV car industry before anyone else ramps up there.

Tesla has pretty much already raised their share of what they need for the project and Panasonic has committed to move forward and they will break the ground in a month to build this new plant. If they succeed, it will be good for the manufacturing industry in the US and we just might all be having more options for what we drive.

Interestingly I read a WSJ article this morning about how some funds are doing exceptionally well investing on select junk bonds.

I guess like in everything else, no risk, no reward.

http://online.wsj.com/articles/new-f...NewsCollection

hyperion667

LovinMercedes

Finally, this thread has turned to something interesting.

johndong888

I finally test drove the tesla a 2 weeks ago. I'm near Philly area and I constantly have to go to Manhattan. The range seems *JUST* enough to handle NY but still scary to the point where I would not want to risk my blood pressure.

The tesla is a great car in itself but it is severely lacking in the luxury department. Aside from that giant nice screen, the seats, the trims, the handles, and definitely the backseats are no where as refined. It definitely did not have as quiet of a cabin as my W221 S550. I do like their childseat option in the rear even though I was really skeptical of it at first.

The steering feel was quite nice however I miss not being able to do any shifting. That might be my deal breaker

nyca

Read/watch some youtube reviews of the Tesla - as you sit there watching your range remaining fall, owners feel compelled to start turning off the air conditioning for example if their remaining range starts getting dicey, especially if they hit traffic. Who needs that stress when they drive, I don't.

K-A

If you have an 80kw model and charge it every night at your house, I find it probably more due to negligence than anything else, if you're on your weekly grind and finding it low on power, when the car gets almost 300 miles to a full charge. Even with 200 a "tank" with using all the accessories generously, I don't see how daily activities would be such a task.

Going to the gas station might be more convenient, but it's far less luxurious of an experience than simply charging your car at home. It's a give and take. Once EV's can be "filled" up much easier and more frequently (and quickly) publicly, there will truly be no comparison when it comes to what delivers a more premium experience and what's more convenient.

steelgrey

Ah...life is good I no longer have to read page after page of K-As bull****. For any of you out there who can't stand our professional forum scribe. Ignoring him is wonderful!!!

Germancar1

Exactly. A half-baked science project for 100K. No thanks. When they truly become as useful as a regular car let me know. The fit and finish of the car is terrible too as is the interior design. Cheap rubbish.

M

K-A

That is some extraordinary hyperbole considering the Model S not only runs circles around every other car in terms of innovation but has broken consumer-sentiment ratings as well as scored higher than any other car in various publications ratings-systems, to name just a couple merits.

Germancar1

Besides the drivetrain, what has it innovated? Consumer sentiment ratings don't mean squat until something is proven in the field. We know people have a warm and fuzzy for the car, means what to me when it runs out of juice in the middle of no where?

M

K-A

Depends on where you want to go? If you park your car in your garage and constantly have it on charge (it'll stop pulling charge on its own so you don't waste money) you never have to stop anywhere. The "running out" argument is more often used as a fear tactic away from EV's than a tangible worry. To some people, the range might not be there quite yet, but to most, it's more than adequate. As Tesla expands its (free) supercharger locations, especially as they get more urbanized, you'll have less cause for concern.

The drivetrain is so beyond innovative, what else does it need? How's the W222 innovative? Perfume dispensers? Changing LED lights, no incandescent bulbs? Automated driving? Tesla is developing the same thing, fyi. The S Class still is using one of the worst trans in the industry. It's using a warmed over W221 chassis which Mercedes didn't even bother changing the dimensions of. Magic Body control we all know is superfluous and a gimmick at this point.

The Model S reimagined the automobile. The driving dynamics are far superior to an S in sportiness measures, it has a 50/50 weight distribution and takes advantage of a low center of gravity. The chassis itself is far more advanced than the W222's.

The design, most out there will agree is more captivating than the W222, IMO the design itself is pretty innovative for an EV as EV's always looked so odd before it.

The Infotainment system, mostly in how it allows the car to get constant updates WITHOUT going to a dealer, with major feature changes is very innovative. Hell, that screen sure is an eyesore, but the way it communicates is innovative.

The dealer system (or lack thereof) is innovative and much needed, the servicing methods (or lack thereof) are innovative.

Use of space also is something its drivetrain allows it to innovate on.

It doesn't match an S Class in fundamental refined aspects when it comes to build, etc, but it's a far more innovative and advanced car for the money. It drives way better if you seek something dynamic (i.e want more than just wafting comfort) and has vastly more curb appeal. I think to most people, that can more than make up for its various shortcomings, especially when you can get it for cheaper than an S.

Which car "deserves" its price tag more will literally come down to direct preference. S guys will find the Tesla's shortcomings rendering it out-classed, while Tesla drivers often will perceive the S to be a dinosaur.

LovinMercedes

So, I suppose you did your own survey to substantiate this fact as you present it.

If you could state your opinions as just that and not as fact, more people might find you less offensive.

This goes for just about every one of your posts.

RobbieRob

That S63 is still bada** and this is the best comment of the entire 12 pages...Thanks for the laugh.

Germancar1

So in other words beyond the drive system, NOTHING. Just like I thought.

Nothing but a bunch of hype over a car that doesn't do much beyond the initial go-ga phase of owning it.

You can't answer the question so you then ask how is the S-Class innovative, which wasn't the issue. The S-Class has innovated the things that ALL cars use now. More than Telsa will ever do.

Secondly for you to say that the S-Class uses a warmed over W221 chassis means what to you? Are you an engineer? Do you know this for a fact or what the shortcomings of this is? No you don't. Worst transmission in the industry? PURE BS. Really because it doesn't shift sport like a BMW's 8-speed ZF? Ask yourself a common sense question, do you really think Mercedes couldn't duplicate that type of shift pattern or are they not trying to? Think for a second. They've had years to copy it if that was where they wanted to go with it. The way my transmission in my 650i shifts doesn't exactly go with the character of a S550 IMO.

That warmed over W221 to W222 is still the best car in the segment. Period.

I'll pass on a science project that isn't worthy of decent travel outside of the predetermined route. You can wait on it, I won't.

What part of the S-Class not trying to be a sports sedan don't you get? You and others keep talking about how dynamic the Model S is vs the S-Class yet you're ignoring the fact that S550 is not trying to be a sports sedan. I haven't seen the Model S compared to a S63 AMG yet. The two cars are set up for different purposes and if you can't grasp this I'm sorry, but comparing the two is just plain silly. They aren't playing the same game.

Just like the S isn't as sporty, the Tesla is pretty much the cheapest 100K car on the road with a ill fitting interior with cheap plastics and ****e design outside of the wow screen which fools the dumb-rich into thinking that they've got something "innovative". Bravo for sticking an ipad like device in the interior.

Outside of the drivetrain you haven't given anything else where the Tesla is innovative. Period. Any vehicle that has be driven carefully on a predetermined route is a joke for my 100K. Combine that with build quality that says 40K and you have a non starter for sure. You can't say what most people like or think, those aren't facts only your opinion.


M

AppleFan1

It seems to me that Germancar1 makes a very logical rebuttal.

WEBSRFR

That's like saying apart from replacing the horse with an internal combustion engine the interior of a horse drawn carriage is so much more comfy and spacious than a car when modern cars were first invented and that the drivetrain adds nothing else It's a very narrow interpretation that tosses out what to many is the soul of a car.

As far as I'm concerned the drive system is what makes the car. The drivetrain of the Tesla is what delivers the zero vibration, no noise, maximum torque from 0-100 mph, and I consider them all to be essential luxury car attributes. I find the interior reminiscent of the minimalistic modern luxury look, feel, and functionality you'd get with custom design modern architecture.

I think you are readdressing a topic that Mike very eloquently explained a few posts back. It seems you didn't quite get what he was trying to explain...



And by the way I also feel the 17" display is more functional and easier to use than any other car interface I have used in the past. For example pretty soon you'd be able to see speed light cameras on the navigation map and get warnings when you approach them because the whole navigation system is based on Google Maps that update over the air and is integrated with the Waze speed camera database. This kind of integration is possible because of the way the car interface is built and as someone in software development I appreciate the thought of a car interface that is just as advanced as everything else I use.

The people I know who own one would beg to disagree with you. But you can keep thinking what you think. The bottom line is many who could afford an S class and are looking to pay around $100K for a 4 door sedan are opting for a Model S based on the sales figures.

For me their drivetrain innovation is not good enough. I used to think exactly what you said above but I no longer look to the S class to see what the future of the car looks like because I don't think the future of the car involves an engine detonating gasoline and route that energy through a transmission to attain forward momentum.

Actually the Tesla at $100,000 is a bargain. The closest drivetrain to that you can get from Mercedes is the SLS Electric and that costs about $500K and it still has a lower capacity battery pack and not nearly as versatile.

What the S class is trying to be or not is irrelevant when they both compete for the same customers.

Wow you have quite a bit of hatred bottled up in there about the glass interface of the Model S. Get used to it because it is the future and after trying it, I can't imagine going back. Look at the control surfaces of the Dragon 2 spacecraft just unveiled. It uses a similar interface and if it is good enough to launch astronauts to the space station and back it is good enough for a car