S63 AMG Bad A....
05-11-2014, 06:52 PM
#126
MBWorld Fanatic!
I see a lot of Tesla S on the road and parked around town. I always check them out. Love the bodywork. The interior looks a bit cheap, with the big screen sort of just tacked on to the dash. I think Tesla gets a huge free pass because it's a radical car from a new company. If MB put a car out with an interior like that they'd get skewered.
Tesla still has growing pains and tech issues to overcome. Range gets seriously reduced in cold weather, and running the cabin heater compounds the problem. Until recently the onboard range estimator didn't account for grades.
Teslas have "bricked", a condition where the battery gets completely depleted and there's no power available even to run the program that manages the charging process. Owners had left them parked for a few days with a charge on them not realizing the car still draws power The fix is a $40,000 battery replacement that isn't covered by warranty or insurance.
Here's a piece KBB did on the Tesla S. It's a love/hate kind of thing.
Tesla still has growing pains and tech issues to overcome. Range gets seriously reduced in cold weather, and running the cabin heater compounds the problem. Until recently the onboard range estimator didn't account for grades.
Teslas have "bricked", a condition where the battery gets completely depleted and there's no power available even to run the program that manages the charging process. Owners had left them parked for a few days with a charge on them not realizing the car still draws power The fix is a $40,000 battery replacement that isn't covered by warranty or insurance.
Here's a piece KBB did on the Tesla S. It's a love/hate kind of thing.
05-11-2014, 06:52 PM
#127
MBWorld Fanatic!
I don't necessarily think everything else is junk but it is embarrassing that Mercedes has yet to release a premium electric car. An all electric S63 would be astounding. If Tesla can do what the P85 can do with $100K, imagine what Mercedes could do with $150K for an all electric S63. The money and technology is there to build a 350 mile range S63 that can reach 60 in the high 3.x seconds but Mercedes is refusing to build that car. They are refusing to build anything remotely competitive with the Model S.
Mercedes has a long history of experimenting with and adding cutting edge features to the Mercedes S class. If a start up that has never built a car can build the Model S, I fail to see how Mercedes can't devote the resources to build a similar car. It will increasingly cost them customers.
I'm not sure where you get this about EVs not being proven. The Tesla batteries have been around since 2007 for the previous generation Roadster and they are holding up incredibly well. The batteries in the Model S are a generation more advanced and come with an 8 year warranty.
You could have said EVs are not proven 8 years ago but if you go with the market reaction of people buying these cars few people accept this argument -- I certainly don't after doing exhaustive research on the matter.
That holds true for long-term reliability, battery life/replacement/disposal and the supply chain since there aren't exactly a lot of companies out there making EV batteries...
That also goes for the Model S. We'll have to see how gracefully this car ages in design and technology.
That also goes for the Model S. We'll have to see how gracefully this car ages in design and technology.
More people spending close to $100K bought a Model S last year (at 17,650 units) than a Mercedes-Benz S-Class: 13,303, BMW 7 Series: 10,932, Lexus LS: 10,727, Audi A8: 6,300, or a Porsche Panamera: 5,421.This is not bad by a car manufacturer that came out of nowhere and spends nothing on advertizing. The EV market is not a niche market. It's a matter of other car manufacturers living in denial that this is some fad. It is not.
I live in the US and I'm quite comfortable owning a 250 mile range EV as my only car.It could give you 100 mpg and I would still consider it BS because it would likely take 7+ seconds to reach 60 mph and would likely have a pure electric range of probably about 30 miles and even that with extremely poor performance. Who wants to spend this kind of money and end up driving a compromised mess that is neither the best EV nor the best gasoline car because it has to carry around 2 different drivetrains?
Mercedes has had hybrids for a while. Are people buying them en masse? No they are not. Hybrids are a stop gap compromise and I'd rather just pass it along entirely as the technology exists to deliver performance and range that I need for all my driving.
At $150K when Mercedes gets around to building a truly high performance all electric S63, it will be the best car in the world.
05-11-2014, 07:12 PM
#128
MBWorld Fanatic!
Most of what you reported have been related to very early production run vehicles of the Model S and pretty much they have all been addressed.
If not, Tesla would not have set a record last month for the most number of vehicles sold by any car manufacturer in a single month, including Toyota, Ford, and VW. Norwegians would not be buying more Model S vehicles than any other car if it performs so poorly in the winter. In fact based on people who own and drive these vehicles, they are quite happy with them.
If Tesla reliability was what you say it is they would never have received the strong endorsement it received from Consumer Reports.
And you are right about the Model S interior being simplistic. But you know something, it works and it works better and is more intuitive to use than anything I have used. I bet from navigation to finding music, to other actions, you can do it faster in the Model S interface than via the burried menu interfaces of the Mercedes COMMAND interface.
Mercedes would never have built such an interface because it is so out of the box and some old dude would probably have nixed it. Let's see how car interfaces look in another 10 years and see if find clean functional user interfaces like in the Model S or dozens of buttons slathered everywhere like in other cars
If not, Tesla would not have set a record last month for the most number of vehicles sold by any car manufacturer in a single month, including Toyota, Ford, and VW. Norwegians would not be buying more Model S vehicles than any other car if it performs so poorly in the winter. In fact based on people who own and drive these vehicles, they are quite happy with them.
If Tesla reliability was what you say it is they would never have received the strong endorsement it received from Consumer Reports.
And you are right about the Model S interior being simplistic. But you know something, it works and it works better and is more intuitive to use than anything I have used. I bet from navigation to finding music, to other actions, you can do it faster in the Model S interface than via the burried menu interfaces of the Mercedes COMMAND interface.
Mercedes would never have built such an interface because it is so out of the box and some old dude would probably have nixed it. Let's see how car interfaces look in another 10 years and see if find clean functional user interfaces like in the Model S or dozens of buttons slathered everywhere like in other cars
I see a lot of Tesla S on the road and parked around town. I always check them out. Love the bodywork. The interior looks a bit cheap, with the big screen sort of just tacked on to the dash. I think Tesla gets a huge free pass because it's a radical car from a new company. If MB put a car out with an interior like that they'd get skewered.
Tesla still has growing pains and tech issues to overcome. Range gets seriously reduced in cold weather, and running the cabin heater compounds the problem. Until recently the onboard range estimator didn't account for grades.
Teslas have "bricked", a condition where the battery gets completely depleted and there's no power available even to run the program that manages the charging process. Owners had left them parked for a few days with a charge on them not realizing the car still draws power The fix is a $40,000 battery replacement that isn't covered by warranty or insurance.
Here's a piece KBB did on the Tesla S. It's a love/hate kind of thing.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0OWhAJz90tg
Tesla still has growing pains and tech issues to overcome. Range gets seriously reduced in cold weather, and running the cabin heater compounds the problem. Until recently the onboard range estimator didn't account for grades.
Teslas have "bricked", a condition where the battery gets completely depleted and there's no power available even to run the program that manages the charging process. Owners had left them parked for a few days with a charge on them not realizing the car still draws power The fix is a $40,000 battery replacement that isn't covered by warranty or insurance.
Here's a piece KBB did on the Tesla S. It's a love/hate kind of thing.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0OWhAJz90tg
05-11-2014, 07:53 PM
#129
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A tiny niche market? Like the market for the Mercedes S class? Because that's the market that the Model S is leading at the moment More people spending close to $100K bought a Model S last year (at 17,650 units) than a Mercedes-Benz S-Class: 13,303, BMW 7 Series: 10,932, Lexus LS: 10,727, Audi A8: 6,300, or a Porsche Panamera: 5,421.
This is not bad by a car manufacturer that came out of nowhere and spends nothing on advertizing. The EV market is not a niche market. It's a matter of other car manufacturers living in denial that this is some fad. It is not.
More people spending close to $100K bought a Model S last year (at 17,650 units) than a Mercedes-Benz S-Class: 13,303, BMW 7 Series: 10,932, Lexus LS: 10,727, Audi A8: 6,300, or a Porsche Panamera: 5,421.This is not bad by a car manufacturer that came out of nowhere and spends nothing on advertizing. The EV market is not a niche market. It's a matter of other car manufacturers living in denial that this is some fad. It is not.
Of course EVs are a tiny niche, just like Tesla is a small niche company (they even know that) as is the S-Class. Mercedes sells nearly 1.5 million cars a year, so you do the math.
The S-Class is cutting edge but MB will not experiment on drive trains.
You keep on calling the B-Class a golf cart but don't seem to realize that the A/B-Class platform is the only one that is actually designed to accommodate batteries properly. The S-Class body, as designed, couldn't be used or converted to EV even if they wanted to.
05-11-2014, 08:53 PM
#130
MBWorld Fanatic!
Most of what you reported have been related to very early production run vehicles of the Model S and pretty much they have all been addressed.
If not, Tesla would not have set a record last month for the most number of vehicles sold by any car manufacturer in a single month, including Toyota, Ford, and VW. Norwegians would not be buying more Model S vehicles than any other car if it performs so poorly in the winter. In fact based on people who own and drive these vehicles, they are quite happy with them.
Tesla Model S - Winter Driving Redefined - YouTube
If Tesla reliability was what you say it is they would never have received the strong endorsement it received from Consumer Reports.
And you are right about the Model S interior being simplistic. But you know something, it works and it works better and is more intuitive to use than anything I have used. I bet from navigation to finding music, to other actions, you can do it faster in the Model S interface than via the burried menu interfaces of the Mercedes COMMAND interface.
Mercedes would never have built such an interface because it is so out of the box and some old dude would probably have nixed it. Let's see how car interfaces look in another 10 years and see if find clean functional user interfaces like in the Model S or dozens of buttons slathered everywhere like in other cars
If not, Tesla would not have set a record last month for the most number of vehicles sold by any car manufacturer in a single month, including Toyota, Ford, and VW. Norwegians would not be buying more Model S vehicles than any other car if it performs so poorly in the winter. In fact based on people who own and drive these vehicles, they are quite happy with them.
Tesla Model S - Winter Driving Redefined - YouTube
If Tesla reliability was what you say it is they would never have received the strong endorsement it received from Consumer Reports.
And you are right about the Model S interior being simplistic. But you know something, it works and it works better and is more intuitive to use than anything I have used. I bet from navigation to finding music, to other actions, you can do it faster in the Model S interface than via the burried menu interfaces of the Mercedes COMMAND interface.
Mercedes would never have built such an interface because it is so out of the box and some old dude would probably have nixed it. Let's see how car interfaces look in another 10 years and see if find clean functional user interfaces like in the Model S or dozens of buttons slathered everywhere like in other cars
Obviously neither of us knows what Mercedes "would never do", although in terms of developing and integrating new tech the MB is a recognized world leader and the S Class is always their chosen platform.
There's really no practical basis for comparison between the Tesla S and the Mercedes S Class, aside from a quiet ride and a six figure price tag. Would Tesla like to be considered by the same buyers of high end Mercedes, BMW, Porsche and Audi? Of course. Will we see pure electrics from all of those guys eventually? You can bet on it.
I like the Tesla S. If I get the opportunity to test drive one I will. Tesla is probably one or two generations away from a really great car at a reasonable price point. Early adopters are paying a huge premium for novelty. I think the major players are paying attention and five years from now a current Tesla S will seem about as progressive and earth shattering as a Delorean is today.
05-11-2014, 09:15 PM
#131
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Norwegians buy Teslas in large numbers because of the huge taxes they avoid by purchasing an electric car relative to an internal combustion vehicle. Not discounting the excellence of the Tesla, but for near equal money Tesla vs Ford Focus is a no brainer. I'm seriously considering one as a third car, but in rural Oklahoma there's no way to make it my only car.
05-11-2014, 10:50 PM
#133
The EV market is like the hybrid market. Almost everyone who wants to buy a hybrid - wants a Prius. Every other hybrid doesn't sell in good numbers, only the Prius does. Everyone who wants a $100K EV - wants a Tesla. It's like a hot nightclub, other clubs are serving drinks and dancing, but somehow a "Studio 54" emerges and everyone wants to go to it. Tesla is like Studio 54. That's why MB doesn't make a $100K EV, because they know few would buy it.
The best move for the Germans is to put electric assist in every drivetrain. Don't even call it a "hybrid", just make it a standard part of the propulsion system on the car. This is what Porsche is going to do with the 918 technology. The electric part of the drivetrain is just there - you don't have to buy it, its not badged separately, its just there.
The best move for the Germans is to put electric assist in every drivetrain. Don't even call it a "hybrid", just make it a standard part of the propulsion system on the car. This is what Porsche is going to do with the 918 technology. The electric part of the drivetrain is just there - you don't have to buy it, its not badged separately, its just there.
Last edited by nyca; 05-11-2014 at 10:54 PM.
05-11-2014, 10:53 PM
#134
Norwegians buy Teslas in large numbers because of the huge taxes they avoid by purchasing an electric car relative to an internal combustion vehicle. Not discounting the excellence of the Tesla, but for near equal money Tesla vs Ford Focus is a no brainer. I'm seriously considering one as a third car, but in rural Oklahoma there's no way to make it my only car.
05-12-2014, 10:38 AM
#135
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jesus, all that drama for a drive from LA to vegas?
Let me ask this question.
Lets say you got one of these teslas and you run out of juice. So now you're stuck on the side of the road. With an ICE car, you can have someone bring you a few gallons of gas.
Does AAA deliver Kilowatts?
Let me ask this question.
Lets say you got one of these teslas and you run out of juice. So now you're stuck on the side of the road. With an ICE car, you can have someone bring you a few gallons of gas.
Does AAA deliver Kilowatts?
05-12-2014, 11:03 AM
#136
MBWorld Fanatic!
jesus, all that drama for a drive from LA to vegas?
Let me ask this question.
Lets say you got one of these teslas and you run out of juice. So now you're stuck on the side of the road. With an ICE car, you can have someone bring you a few gallons of gas.
Does AAA deliver Kilowatts?
Let me ask this question.
Lets say you got one of these teslas and you run out of juice. So now you're stuck on the side of the road. With an ICE car, you can have someone bring you a few gallons of gas.
Does AAA deliver Kilowatts?
I wonder if you carried one of those ultra quiet compact Honda generators in the trunk and a 5 gallon can of gas would it be possible to put enough of a charge on it to get you to a real charging station?
Last edited by Mike5215; 05-12-2014 at 11:05 AM.
05-12-2014, 12:17 PM
#138
MBWorld Fanatic!
They're not luxury cars as much as "thrill" cars. Imagine the sensation of driving to your destination without absolute certainty your battery powered car has enough of a charge to get you there! What was once a boring, routine experience is now a sense-heightening thrill ride.
Now, you start your car and a fuel gauge tells you how much fuel you have on hand. (Yawn) With an electric car, nobody really can tell you how much fuel you have. It's more of a guestimate. And it changes frequently in exciting, unexpected ways!
In the winter, your boring gas powered vehicle draws heat into the cabin as a byproduct of the engine's combustion process. Now imagine a fun winter game where you must decide between maintaining enough of a charge to reach your destination, or heating the cabin, or driving at full highway speed!
None of these things are possible in your "world class luxury car", my friend.
Now, you start your car and a fuel gauge tells you how much fuel you have on hand. (Yawn) With an electric car, nobody really can tell you how much fuel you have. It's more of a guestimate. And it changes frequently in exciting, unexpected ways!
In the winter, your boring gas powered vehicle draws heat into the cabin as a byproduct of the engine's combustion process. Now imagine a fun winter game where you must decide between maintaining enough of a charge to reach your destination, or heating the cabin, or driving at full highway speed!
None of these things are possible in your "world class luxury car", my friend.
05-12-2014, 01:46 PM
#139
MBWorld Fanatic!
Wow, that's some overly dramatic visions you have of Model S drivers dying on the sides of the roads
I don't know what you are talking about as tens and thousands of people are driving Model S vehicles, up and down the coasts as well as across the country without issues. If you run out of power on a gasoline car or an electric car, it is your fault for not planning. But this would need people to accept personal responsibility for their actions and planning accordingly.
But as K-A had mentioned I bet people made the same arguments when the horse and buggy was replaced with the internal combustion engines. I bet people were extorting "what are you going to do with those new contraptions that need gas?" When my horsey, "Mr. Ed," needs food, I just pull over to a grass field and I don;t want to have to dig an oil well...
Maybe you are one of those "luxury car buyers" who drive for 100s of miles without stopping but for most normal people, the 250 mile range offered by a Model S is plenty for all they driving they would do at one time before pulling over for a 30 minute pit stop.
It is great that you like to argue with yourself over things that you made up yourself. There are no issues with heating the car on a colder regions when driving electric cars. Maybe you live someplace colder than in Norway but Norwegian drivers are not having any heating issues.
As you so astutely pointed out, an internal combustion car needs to heat the engine to provide heat whereas an electric car can deliver heat immediately when you enter the cabin because the heater runs right away. I'd be more comfortable in an electric car on a cold winter night than in a gasoline car as there is no engine to heat up before the cabin heats up. In fact with a Tesla you can use the smartphone app to heat the car before you even step inside the car.
All this engine heat you talk about is actually what happens to about 60% of the energy that is consumed by the car. Only about 40% of the energy is actually used for forward momentum.
I'm done with the 100 year old internal combustion engine and I'm glad the next generation of the automobile is being invented. I'd still like to see a high performance long range EV from Mercedes. With Mercedes refinement and luxury combined with linear instant torque to 100 mph with no transmission to get in the way it will be a phenomenal vehicle.
I don't know what you are talking about as tens and thousands of people are driving Model S vehicles, up and down the coasts as well as across the country without issues. If you run out of power on a gasoline car or an electric car, it is your fault for not planning. But this would need people to accept personal responsibility for their actions and planning accordingly.
But as K-A had mentioned I bet people made the same arguments when the horse and buggy was replaced with the internal combustion engines. I bet people were extorting "what are you going to do with those new contraptions that need gas?" When my horsey, "Mr. Ed," needs food, I just pull over to a grass field and I don;t want to have to dig an oil well...
Maybe you are one of those "luxury car buyers" who drive for 100s of miles without stopping but for most normal people, the 250 mile range offered by a Model S is plenty for all they driving they would do at one time before pulling over for a 30 minute pit stop.
It is great that you like to argue with yourself over things that you made up yourself. There are no issues with heating the car on a colder regions when driving electric cars. Maybe you live someplace colder than in Norway but Norwegian drivers are not having any heating issues.
As you so astutely pointed out, an internal combustion car needs to heat the engine to provide heat whereas an electric car can deliver heat immediately when you enter the cabin because the heater runs right away. I'd be more comfortable in an electric car on a cold winter night than in a gasoline car as there is no engine to heat up before the cabin heats up. In fact with a Tesla you can use the smartphone app to heat the car before you even step inside the car.
All this engine heat you talk about is actually what happens to about 60% of the energy that is consumed by the car. Only about 40% of the energy is actually used for forward momentum.
I'm done with the 100 year old internal combustion engine and I'm glad the next generation of the automobile is being invented. I'd still like to see a high performance long range EV from Mercedes. With Mercedes refinement and luxury combined with linear instant torque to 100 mph with no transmission to get in the way it will be a phenomenal vehicle.
They're not luxury cars as much as "thrill" cars. Imagine the sensation of driving to your destination without absolute certainty your battery powered car has enough of a charge to get you there! What was once a boring, routine experience is now a sense-heightening thrill ride.
Now, you start your car and a fuel gauge tells you how much fuel you have on hand. (Yawn) With an electric car, nobody really can tell you how much fuel you have. It's more of a guestimate. And it changes frequently in exciting, unexpected ways!
In the winter, your boring gas powered vehicle draws heat into the cabin as a byproduct of the engine's combustion process. Now imagine a fun winter game where you must decide between maintaining enough of a charge to reach your destination, or heating the cabin, or driving at full highway speed!
None of these things are possible in your "world class luxury car", my friend.
Now, you start your car and a fuel gauge tells you how much fuel you have on hand. (Yawn) With an electric car, nobody really can tell you how much fuel you have. It's more of a guestimate. And it changes frequently in exciting, unexpected ways!
In the winter, your boring gas powered vehicle draws heat into the cabin as a byproduct of the engine's combustion process. Now imagine a fun winter game where you must decide between maintaining enough of a charge to reach your destination, or heating the cabin, or driving at full highway speed!
None of these things are possible in your "world class luxury car", my friend.
Last edited by WEBSRFR; 05-12-2014 at 01:55 PM.
05-12-2014, 02:03 PM
#140
MBWorld Fanatic!
There are provisions being made by AAA in the future to provide charging for EVs. They already offer this in some areas. Some people are acting like overnight we will go from gasoline to electric powered cars but this will happen in incremental steps. We are further along this process than some might think.
An EV might not be the right car for everyone but it meets the requirements of the majority of American drivers today and the situation will only get better.
Knock on wood, I have never run out of gas in my life but if I do, it will be my fault for not planning accordingly. If that happens in a Tesla, I will call Tesla for roadside assistance and I will be on my way. In which case, hopefully next time I will not be a moron to run out of power when already there are over 17,000 places to charge an EV across the US.
05-12-2014, 02:18 PM
#141
MBWorld Fanatic!
The EV market is like the hybrid market. Almost everyone who wants to buy a hybrid - wants a Prius. Every other hybrid doesn't sell in good numbers, only the Prius does. Everyone who wants a $100K EV - wants a Tesla. It's like a hot nightclub, other clubs are serving drinks and dancing, but somehow a "Studio 54" emerges and everyone wants to go to it. Tesla is like Studio 54. That's why MB doesn't make a $100K EV, because they know few would buy it.
The best move for the Germans is to put electric assist in every drivetrain. Don't even call it a "hybrid", just make it a standard part of the propulsion system on the car. This is what Porsche is going to do with the 918 technology. The electric part of the drivetrain is just there - you don't have to buy it, its not badged separately, its just there.
The market is not buying the hybrid nonsense. Look how poorly Mercedes has sold their hybrid models. The time a hybrid made sense has long elapsed.
05-12-2014, 02:42 PM
#142
MBWorld Fanatic!
Wow, that's some overly dramatic visions you have of Model S drivers dying on the sides of the roads
I don't know what you are talking about as tens and thousands of people are driving Model S vehicles, up and down the coasts as well as across the country without issues. If you run out of power on a gasoline car or an electric car, it is your fault for not planning. But this would need people to accept personal responsibility for their actions and planning accordingly.
But as K-A had mentioned I bet people made the same arguments when the horse and buggy was replaced with the internal combustion engines. I bet people were extorting "what are you going to do with those new contraptions that need gas?" When my horsey, "Mr. Ed," needs food, I just pull over to a grass field and I don;t want to have to dig an oil well...
Maybe you are one of those "luxury car buyers" who drive for 100s of miles without stopping but for most normal people, the 250 mile range offered by a Model S is plenty for all they driving they would do at one time before pulling over for a 30 minute pit stop.
It is great that you like to argue with yourself over things that you made up yourself. There are no issues with heating the car on a colder regions when driving electric cars. Maybe you live someplace colder than in Norway but Norwegian drivers are not having any heating issues.
As you so astutely pointed out, an internal combustion car needs to heat the engine to provide heat whereas an electric car can deliver heat immediately when you enter the cabin because the heater runs right away. I'd be more comfortable in an electric car on a cold winter night than in a gasoline car as there is no engine to heat up before the cabin heats up. In fact with a Tesla you can use the smartphone app to heat the car before you even step inside the car.
All this engine heat you talk about is actually what happens to about 60% of the energy that is consumed by the car. Only about 40% of the energy is actually used for forward momentum.
I'm done with the 100 year old internal combustion engine and I'm glad the next generation of the automobile is being invented. I'd still like to see a high performance long range EV from Mercedes. With Mercedes refinement and luxury combined with linear instant torque to 100 mph with no transmission to get in the way it will be a phenomenal vehicle.
I don't know what you are talking about as tens and thousands of people are driving Model S vehicles, up and down the coasts as well as across the country without issues. If you run out of power on a gasoline car or an electric car, it is your fault for not planning. But this would need people to accept personal responsibility for their actions and planning accordingly.
But as K-A had mentioned I bet people made the same arguments when the horse and buggy was replaced with the internal combustion engines. I bet people were extorting "what are you going to do with those new contraptions that need gas?" When my horsey, "Mr. Ed," needs food, I just pull over to a grass field and I don;t want to have to dig an oil well...
Maybe you are one of those "luxury car buyers" who drive for 100s of miles without stopping but for most normal people, the 250 mile range offered by a Model S is plenty for all they driving they would do at one time before pulling over for a 30 minute pit stop.
It is great that you like to argue with yourself over things that you made up yourself. There are no issues with heating the car on a colder regions when driving electric cars. Maybe you live someplace colder than in Norway but Norwegian drivers are not having any heating issues.
As you so astutely pointed out, an internal combustion car needs to heat the engine to provide heat whereas an electric car can deliver heat immediately when you enter the cabin because the heater runs right away. I'd be more comfortable in an electric car on a cold winter night than in a gasoline car as there is no engine to heat up before the cabin heats up. In fact with a Tesla you can use the smartphone app to heat the car before you even step inside the car.
All this engine heat you talk about is actually what happens to about 60% of the energy that is consumed by the car. Only about 40% of the energy is actually used for forward momentum.
I'm done with the 100 year old internal combustion engine and I'm glad the next generation of the automobile is being invented. I'd still like to see a high performance long range EV from Mercedes. With Mercedes refinement and luxury combined with linear instant torque to 100 mph with no transmission to get in the way it will be a phenomenal vehicle.
If the Tesla S performance EV is as good as you feel it is, why would it be necessary for Mercedes to build you one? Why not just buy a Tesla and be done with it? What do you feel it is that makes the Tesla S so inadequate in its current form?
05-12-2014, 03:21 PM
#143
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Actually, yes.
There are provisions being made by AAA in the future to provide charging for EVs. They already offer this in some areas. Some people are acting like overnight we will go from gasoline to electric powered cars but this will happen in incremental steps. We are further along this process than some might think.
.
There are provisions being made by AAA in the future to provide charging for EVs. They already offer this in some areas. Some people are acting like overnight we will go from gasoline to electric powered cars but this will happen in incremental steps. We are further along this process than some might think.
.
Its gotten **** on for the past 100 years or so by ICE cars.
Tesla is making beta models right now. In 2 generations, when the infrastructure is in place, and I don't have to sacrifice practicality to own one of these things, perhaps I'll consider it.
05-12-2014, 03:51 PM
#144
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05-12-2014, 03:58 PM
#145
MBWorld Fanatic!
Maybe the auto industry does not want to build a EV with fewer things to go wrong and fix as that would put the stealership service departments out of business. Imagine if the dealer could no longer make money fixing all the internal combustion engine, transmission, emission control system components that fail along with all the required service. With an EV you change the brake and battery coolant fluid every 2 years, rotate the tires, and replace tires/wipers as needed and that's it. No wonder they are dragging their feet building an EV
It will slash dealership profit margins when it comes to service when people only bring their cars in for minor service every 2 years.Like I said, the current EVs are not for everyone. They meet the needs of likely 95% of the population, myself included. I agree with you on how they will get better. They will come out with the Model X next year and that will be a generation more advanced than the Model S, and after their mas market car in 2 years, they will likely redesign the Model S and it will be an even more phenomenal car.
Hopefully by then Mercedes will build a proper no compromise EV and I'd love to see what their AMG line can do with electric propulsion and about a 125-150 kWh battery pack that can deliver about 400-450 miles of range.
I hope the W223 platform takes EV technology seriously.
Last edited by WEBSRFR; 05-12-2014 at 04:16 PM.
05-12-2014, 03:58 PM
#146
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Join Date: May 2002
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AMG GTC Roadster, E63s Ed.1, M8 Comp. Coupe
you realize how long the electric vehicle concept has been around right?
Its gotten **** on for the past 100 years or so by ICE cars.
Tesla is making beta models right now. In 2 generations, when the infrastructure is in place, and I don't have to sacrifice practicality to own one of these things, perhaps I'll consider it.
Its gotten **** on for the past 100 years or so by ICE cars.
Tesla is making beta models right now. In 2 generations, when the infrastructure is in place, and I don't have to sacrifice practicality to own one of these things, perhaps I'll consider it.
05-12-2014, 04:05 PM
#147
MBWorld Fanatic!
The current EV technology finally has reached a point where we will see the same year-over-year development and advances we saw with ICE technology during the last 100 years. Battery capacities, maximum speed, endurance, time to charge will all improve. Already it is at a point where I'd pick a P85 over a S550. About 250 miles of range and 0-60 about 4.2 seconds is all I need -- and I just want them to add AWD to that mix
Last edited by WEBSRFR; 05-12-2014 at 04:10 PM.
05-12-2014, 04:16 PM
#148
MBWorld Fanatic!
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: Germantown, MD/Rehoboth Beach, DE
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2024 GLS450
I'll just leave this here:
http://money.cnn.com/2014/05/06/news...s/tesla-sales/
You cant really look at initial numbers of a hyped up car and determine its level of success in the marketplace. There is going to be an initial spike.
I ordered my smart September 2, 2007 and received it August 28, 2008. They could not build them fast enough for the world and production was maxed. Fast forward a couple of years, and they were struggling to sell 600 a month across the US.
Despite your feelings on the smart (it is a polarizing vehicle for a lot of people) - it is a niche vehicle like the Tesla - albeit one that I will argue is vastly superior from a practicality standpoint since it is ICE. I'm going to expect to see a similar trend with Tesla, perhaps aggravated though - since we're talking about a 6 figure car versus the lowest cost car you can get in the US...
I'd run like hell from TSLA - at some point the bottom will fall out, and I am not a risky investor.
http://money.cnn.com/2014/05/06/news...s/tesla-sales/
You cant really look at initial numbers of a hyped up car and determine its level of success in the marketplace. There is going to be an initial spike.
I ordered my smart September 2, 2007 and received it August 28, 2008. They could not build them fast enough for the world and production was maxed. Fast forward a couple of years, and they were struggling to sell 600 a month across the US.
Despite your feelings on the smart (it is a polarizing vehicle for a lot of people) - it is a niche vehicle like the Tesla - albeit one that I will argue is vastly superior from a practicality standpoint since it is ICE. I'm going to expect to see a similar trend with Tesla, perhaps aggravated though - since we're talking about a 6 figure car versus the lowest cost car you can get in the US...
I'd run like hell from TSLA - at some point the bottom will fall out, and I am not a risky investor.
05-12-2014, 04:31 PM
#149
MBWorld Fanatic!
You have a legitimate point there. With the deposits Tesla started taking a year or two before the release of the Model S, there was an initial spike in orders for the first year because it accounted for that year's sales + the deposits they had taken on past years.
I understand the point you are making but it makes sense only if Tesla has a problem selling vehicles or their production (determined by sales) is falling or even leveling off and that is not the case. The wait time to get a Model S in the US remains 2-3 months (~1 month for P85) and they are expanding into China where people are literally suing Tesla to deliver the vehicles faster. Basically they can't make enough cars to meet worldwide demand. Each quarter, their sales are going up and so is their production.
We are now at about 700 cars a week and that number is slated to go up to about 1000 cars a week by the end of the year and unlike traditional car companies, Tesla already has an order, a deposit, and a buyer for each car that rolls out of their assembly line. They spend zero on advertizing and they have barely scratched the surface of the US car market with a larger market in China that was just opened up.
As for TSLA, I never bought shares in the company but I hope some people follow your advice as I can they buy a bunch of shares at a better price that I will then hold on for the long term. There is too much volatility with Tesla at the moment because the selective bits of data people focus on. Their technology and game-plan is solid for long term growth as far as I'm concerned and they have a product and technology that will change what makes a car "bad a..."
As for the Smart v/ Tesla comparison, let's agree to disagree on which vehicle is a niche vehicle. I guess we'll find the answer to that in a few years... I'll just say that I would never have purchased a Smart car even as a 3rd or 4th car but I am perfectly conformable and in fact look forward to replacing my E550 with a P85 as my only car and daily driver over a S550.
I understand the point you are making but it makes sense only if Tesla has a problem selling vehicles or their production (determined by sales) is falling or even leveling off and that is not the case. The wait time to get a Model S in the US remains 2-3 months (~1 month for P85) and they are expanding into China where people are literally suing Tesla to deliver the vehicles faster. Basically they can't make enough cars to meet worldwide demand. Each quarter, their sales are going up and so is their production.
We are now at about 700 cars a week and that number is slated to go up to about 1000 cars a week by the end of the year and unlike traditional car companies, Tesla already has an order, a deposit, and a buyer for each car that rolls out of their assembly line. They spend zero on advertizing and they have barely scratched the surface of the US car market with a larger market in China that was just opened up.
As for TSLA, I never bought shares in the company but I hope some people follow your advice as I can they buy a bunch of shares at a better price that I will then hold on for the long term. There is too much volatility with Tesla at the moment because the selective bits of data people focus on. Their technology and game-plan is solid for long term growth as far as I'm concerned and they have a product and technology that will change what makes a car "bad a..."
As for the Smart v/ Tesla comparison, let's agree to disagree on which vehicle is a niche vehicle. I guess we'll find the answer to that in a few years... I'll just say that I would never have purchased a Smart car even as a 3rd or 4th car but I am perfectly conformable and in fact look forward to replacing my E550 with a P85 as my only car and daily driver over a S550.
I'll just leave this here:
http://money.cnn.com/2014/05/06/news...s/tesla-sales/
You cant really look at initial numbers of a hyped up car and determine its level of success in the marketplace. There is going to be an initial spike.
I ordered my smart September 2, 2007 and received it August 28, 2008. They could not build them fast enough for the world and production was maxed. Fast forward a couple of years, and they were struggling to sell 600 a month across the US.
Despite your feelings on the smart (it is a polarizing vehicle for a lot of people) - it is a niche vehicle like the Tesla - albeit one that I will argue is vastly superior from a practicality standpoint since it is ICE. I'm going to expect to see a similar trend with Tesla, perhaps aggravated though - since we're talking about a 6 figure car versus the lowest cost car you can get in the US...
I'd run like hell from TSLA.
http://money.cnn.com/2014/05/06/news...s/tesla-sales/
You cant really look at initial numbers of a hyped up car and determine its level of success in the marketplace. There is going to be an initial spike.
I ordered my smart September 2, 2007 and received it August 28, 2008. They could not build them fast enough for the world and production was maxed. Fast forward a couple of years, and they were struggling to sell 600 a month across the US.
Despite your feelings on the smart (it is a polarizing vehicle for a lot of people) - it is a niche vehicle like the Tesla - albeit one that I will argue is vastly superior from a practicality standpoint since it is ICE. I'm going to expect to see a similar trend with Tesla, perhaps aggravated though - since we're talking about a 6 figure car versus the lowest cost car you can get in the US...
I'd run like hell from TSLA.
Last edited by WEBSRFR; 05-12-2014 at 04:37 PM.
05-12-2014, 08:45 PM
#150
MBWorld Fanatic!
Here's the process I've gone through with the Tesla S.
Step 1: Damn that thing looks good on the road.
Step 2: I'm convinced I can use the Tesla for 99% of my DD needs.
Step 3: I go to the website and configure a car. It's $103,000 not including the cost of adding a new electrical sub panel in the garage because I installed a 240v hot tub last year and used up my last two open slots on the main panel.
Step 4: I buy another S Class.
Step 1: Damn that thing looks good on the road.
Step 2: I'm convinced I can use the Tesla for 99% of my DD needs.
Step 3: I go to the website and configure a car. It's $103,000 not including the cost of adding a new electrical sub panel in the garage because I installed a 240v hot tub last year and used up my last two open slots on the main panel.
Step 4: I buy another S Class.
