UrBusted

The only things these cars have in common is price. That's it.
I'd also like to say to the comment above yours is that my S350 does at minimum 600 miles. Since this car does distances instead of town driving, I easily reach 730 miles on a tank when I'm driving distances of ~10 miles.

WEBSRFR

For you, perhaps. In our case we compared the benefits and drawbacks of each car and decided for our needs we'd be immensely more happier in a Model S After two months with our P85D we absolutely made the right decision. We may not be alone in the path we have chosen.

UrBusted

You may have compared both cars, but thats what they bring to you. Its not exactly comparing those cars. You were probably thinking performance electric sedan vs pure luxury sedan. Not like if you were comparing an E63 S with a RS6, where you would be comparing specs as it is performance estate vs performance estate.

cjf_moraga

You are not alone. I have been pondering whether to post or not as this subject generates such diverse viewpoints, but perhaps my recent decision process might be of interest.

I think there is significant overlap between these vehicles in terms of size, ride, quietness, performance, and price, but less so in terms of passenger amenities and interior appointments. As always, it depends on what is important to ones driving style and needs of course.

Until a few weeks ago I was planning on replacing my 2008 S600 with a MY16 w222 S600 or S63. (there is a separate thread on this subject) I decided to test drive a Tesla P85D out of curiosity and I found it a complete revelation. Actually I was amazed by it! My past 4 cars have all been Mercedes and my inclination has always been towards that magical combination of smooth ride, comfort, straight line acceleration, and interior quietness, that Mercedes has always done so well. That the S-Class traditionally placed an additional emphasis on technology leadership and restrained design has always been very appealing to me. I moved from an E55 to an S600 in 2008 because the sheer torque and smoothness of a V12 S-Class combined with a quality interior was the best I could do in my price range.

The current Tesla Model-S however appears no less than a major technology disruption. There is no way any reciprocating engine can compare to the smoothness, silence, and performance of this car in regular driving conditions. (I have no interest in the track) Obviously range anxiety and other factors are all important considerations, but for my type of driving the Tesla P85D fits very well and I have just acquired one on a short term lease, deferring my replacement w222 S-Class for the present. Based on my test drives and research I want more experience of Battery Electric technology as it is advancing rapidly and see how this all develops. There is that feeling of being on the cutting edge, attributes that often used to be associated with the S-Class.

Another factor was that the mid-life make-over of the S-Class is but a model year or so away, (MY17?) and spending $170K+ right now does not feel well timed. I remain disappointed in Mercedes in not producing a new generation V12 engine for its flagship S-Class and/or Maybach. The existing M275 is a good engine, but it is already getting on for 12 years since the twin-turbo version was introduced and with no indication that anything new is in the works. It will be getting on for 20 years old by the time the W223 comes along. However perhaps Mercedes is being prudent and realizes that for a truly smooth, silent, high torque drive, (non-hybrid) electric drive has to be the ultimate next generation S-Class V12 replacement.

Yes, the Tesla Model-S is not as opulent inside as a W222 S-Class and there are lots of basic details that Tesla has not got around to yet. Driving my new P85D however I am finding I am not worrying about the lack of coat hooks, door pockets, seat massage, bottled scent, or rear passenger seats that I never sit in. Based on various comments in this thread, I was not expecting the level of fit and finish of production models now coming off the line to be as good as it actually is. Everything seems put together solidly, there are no creaks or noises, and my new P85D does not at all feel cheap. Certainly the interior is austere and minimalist.. but then so was the w221 S-Class a very understated interior in its time. Also quite a few components in the Tesla are sourced from Mercedes suppliers including the air-suspension, window controls, steering wheel and switchgear, trunk closer, wipers, and I suspect a few other things as well.

I increasingly sense that the W222 is Mercedes marking time by essentially updating the W221 with a great interior but with minimal focus on the actual driving aspects. Perhaps it is the W223 which is where Mercedes traditional engineering innovation will come back into play.

Chris

PJ550CAB

I drove a P85+ about two years ago, blinding fast, nice quiet ride and handled very well. Backseat is not comfortable, so don't compare it to the S. I drove a '12 S550 and frankly was not as impressed, but it is incredibly comfortable. For me, neither car was suitable, they don't make an electric cabriolet yet with 400+ hp. I use a Honda CRV as my winter beater and airport car. Sorry, I could care less about buying gas.

Mike5215

I drove the new 70D and a P85D this weekend and Tesla has addressed my two big quibbles with the interior. New seats that look less like a design school class project and more like real car seats, and an available center console. The rear seat package also does away with the park bench in favor of two nicely articulated heated seats with a wide center console. That, plus the premium leather interior and the upgraded audio...um, yeah I wouldn't spend a lot of time missing my 221's interior. It's not as cushy but it's close enough, and on par the interiors in our Audis.

As much fun as the P85D was I actually was very happy with the 70D. It had plenty of scoot as far as I was concerned, and a good bit cheaper. Right now my config of choice is a Deep Blue 70D, 21" Wheels (Silver) Pano, Auto Pilot package, Air Suspension, Premium Audio, Premium Interior, Next Gen seats (Tan), Executive Rear Seat Package. The whole thing leases out at 36 months/15k miles a year for what I currently pay on the note for the S Class.

taoh2

I once own 1998 S600, three BMW 750il of 1997, 1998, 2000. all 750il broke down to the point not worth to fix it
currently own 1998 S500, 2007 BMW 750Li
I also leasing now Nissan Leaf, 2014 toyota Rav4 EV(only sold in CA)
the last two are electric car, the leaf is much slower than Rav4 EV
however, as daily commute, both electric beat GAS car hand down
the leaf has only 60 mile range and rav4 100(on standard charge)
the hassle I save to gas station is much bigger than the range anxiety.
even the leaf 0-30 mile faster than my 1998 S600.
fuel cost alone I save over $500 over S-class, not to mention the maintenance for GAS car which will be several thousand more each year. electric car maintenance is $0

yes, the S600 will be quieter on freeway speed thanks for its build including the dual paned window. but at the stop light, electric car is silent

I feel less fatigue for my commute(60 mile a day) when driving electric car. everything is easier on electric car: easy start, stop, silent at low speed, same quietness as S class on freeway.

I agree S-class has all the high-end interior, but to me it is something nice to have only.
the most important is the drive train, which electric car beat GAS hand down.
I always floor my gas padel on my electric car which I seldom in my gas car, why?
because flooring gas car mean you need to go the gas station sooner, more noiser, more trouble..

I only talking my leaf and rav4EV here, I have several friend who own leaf, none of them want to go back to GAS engine, none

I also test drive tesla many time, I am living a few mile away from tesla factory in Fremont, CA. the eariler tesla is noiser, the latest model with stock tire are very quiet.
the P85D is scary fast, to the point I don't want it

I do plan to buy tesla, the auto pilot is killer for me, a game changer. I will wait till the auto-steering roll out before I put my money down

it is not tesla don't know how to design a luxury interior, but they need to cut the weight to make room for battery.

tesla is far better than BMW i3

Mike5215

See? Even Borat prefers the electric. Eees ver nice.

UrBusted

I agree S-class has all the high-end interior, but to me it is something nice to have only.
This is what a lot/most of us buy this car for. I don't have a S550, but I'm from the UK and the S350 has over double the range of both the Tesla and the S550. I'm not going to detour my route when I'm going up and down the country just so I can charge my car. It'll be possible in America due to the immense amount of superchargers but there is less than 10 here in the UK.

Caeruleus11

To answer your question. I have some time in Tesla S cars of various configurations. The car does nothing for me. I found once I got over the massive torque off the line, the car's power becomes quite ordinary at highway speeds and worse than ordinary at higher speeds. I find the exterior styling to be nice but not great. I think the interior space is very good but the materials would be fine for a car costing about ½ the Tesla's price. I think the steering actually is pretty good as are the brakes but the overall handling reminds me of BMWs from the early 2000s. Thats a good thing except for this kind of money it should be more advanced. I absolutely hate the large touch screen. Touch screens are a distraction for a driver- you have to take your eyes off the road to use it. It also ends up littered with finger prints. I also have found the range worry to be a real factor.

With regard to the supercharging stations- they are not everywhere- and waiting more than 8 minutes for a full charge or tank is unacceptable. This will improve over time but for now its not something I would accept.

Regarding electric maintenance- it will never be zero. You still have brakes that will need new pads, as well as other parts that will need replacing/ repair. Of course it does not have the complex internal combustion motor. For some electric makes sense. But I am not one of them. My opinion is the technology is not there yet for me. Maybe some day.

Forgot to mention the seats in the Tesla, even the updated ones, I find uncomfortable.

I think its a huge accomplishment for Tesla and its pretty well done. If this car were going for E class money then I'd be more impressed, but for S class money, I'd rather have the real deal.

UrBusted

I withdraw my comment about the 0.000001% of Tesla fans being the worse by telling me that the Tesla Model S is more comfortable than a fully loaded Rolls Royce Phantom e.t.c. At least the two cars were in "similar" segments of the market. I've had a guy tell me now that the Cadillac CTS V is better than the S Class in every aspect, as is the same in the luxury aspect, and says that the CTS V is slower than the E63 S.
"Actually it does mean its your dads, you have any idea how many people I came across who were "working for NASA, Hollywood stars, billionaires, politicians, CEOs" etc? Youre one of them. I couldve claimed Im a trillionaire scientist whatever from the start, but I didnt.
Of course price is everything, why would anybody spend $100K more unnecessarily? To do the one thing they have no other way of doing, show everybody they have money. Reminds me of the rich russian girl with the crystal covered Mercedes. Inconvenient, useless, but everybody sees she has money. I do have a decent job, but regardless what job I'd have I still wouldnt waste money like some idiot, I actually use my head to determine if something is worth it. Once again youre talking about cars that cost $95K for the base model, which will be around $120K for a few extras. There is no comparison, it would have to cost $75K with all extras for it to win against the CTS V, or the CTS V would have to cost $120K with all extras for the Mercedes to win. You keep mentioning sales but fail to read back the comments where I debunked why sales are what they are. And you can just take a look at China where propaganda didnt really have a foothold."
"Like I said before, your dads cars dont count kid. Also the 350 lacks major performance, I only stressed it like a hundred times that to even come close to a CTS V in performance, luxury, and quality, a Eurobrand needs to cost atleast $150K. Regardless of what link you post, not a single Eurobrand can compete with Cadillac at the moment in terms of performance, reliability, cost, and luxury. The only reliable reviewers ARE US ones, not all, and of course they need to consider the price. If a eurobrand is higher in performance and efficiency than a Cadillac, it will seriously lack in reliability and luxury, if its reliable and luxurious like a Cadillac, it will lack in performance, and there are more variations. Right now, Cadillac is on top, get over it. Status symbol aspect doesnt count."
"Like I said, youre not going to tell anyone that a slight difference in interior costs $100K more lol these cars have strictly one function - show. That is to show everybody that the person who drives it is a rich moron. Nothing more. The cars dont actually have anything that the US brands dont have, theyre just for show. Like wearing a gold covered clothes, not functional but the people who see it will think that youre rich."
"Youre right there is no competition, the Cadillac is the best quality and performance for the buck, while the rest are just status symbols meant to be owned by rich douchebags who found oil under their desert but dont know jack about cars."
Know it's but found this guy a bit funny

Mike5215

All true. I wonder sometimes about the novelty wearing off after a few months of high speed bursts and then you're left with what the car really is and is not, and that's when the money in becomes a factor. In other words, what have I given up versus a conventional car for the same money, and how many of the quibbles I overlooked in the fog of the purchase are now more than quibbles.

It's a little disconcerting to see really nice, low mileage Model S for sale on AutoTrader etc in what seem like high numbers relative to the total number on the road. The Tesla forum guys seem to think these are all happy owners wanting to upgrade to the latest AWD Tesla cars but I don't think that bears scrutiny.

On the other hand, the addition of leasing a Tesla is tempting. I can put up with pretty much anything for three years. And I do believe the guys in the thread who are owners and absolutely feel its the best car they've ever owned.

cjf_moraga

One reason I leased a Tesla P85D (beyond the fact the technology is advancing so quickly) is that there is a "get out with no penalty" provision up to 3-months, which helps get one past the initial novelty phase. Thats time to get a proper rational and unemotional evaluation of the car as being currently produced.

I have to admit that 3-weeks in I am getting quite used to the silence of the P85D and the way it accelerates instantly with not the slightest lag. On the other hand I definitely miss the iPod integration of the S-Class! I suspect it is the smaller things that will become more prominent over time.

Chris

Mike5215

I had a car that I bought almost entirely because of its very short 0-60 and I have to admit that literally every single time I took it out I found at least one chance to drop a gear or two and open the throttle. It never got old.

I'm puzzled re the IPod. Mine synced right up and there was my album art right there on the dash and the big screen. Is there a control issue?

WEBSRFR

Congratulations Mike! The 70D is very new and it is a tremendous value. The pricing for it is extremely reasonable.

I'm not surprised to hear how much you like the Next Gen Tesla seats. They are actually designed by Recaro and generally available in super high end cars like the Mercedes SLS AMG and AMG Black. They are superbly comfortable and really hold you in place for spirited driving

The center console is nice but for whatever reason is only available in black for now.

I am glad Tesla has addressed your interior concerns but wait until after the Model X is released to see what is in store for the Model S interior. A bunch of interior refinements are on the way along with a larger capacity battery.

It was very smart of you to lease the Tesla 70D. In 3 more years you will see a tremendously more refined product from Tesla and IMHO it is already a generation ahead of the S class.

Looks like you have a nicely configured 70D but the one thing I would advice against you choosing are the 21" wheels. Unless you live some place with perfect roads you are going to have issues with those wheels. The are also an expensive $4,500 option and if you damage a wheel they are very pricy. If I were you, I'd pass on the 21" wheels and stay with the regular 19" wheels but the rest of the options you have selected are all worthwhile.

One thing is for sure though. Once you've gotten used to your Model S, you'll likely never want to go back to a vibrating, noise making, gear shifting, non linear accelerating after a brief lag gasoline car

Hopefully by the time your 3 year lease is up, Mercedes would have finally delivered an all electric sedan that competes with the Model S, unless of course they want to keep loosing more market share to Tesla.

WEBSRFR

I'm glad you are enjoying your P85D and its silent acceleration It's still a bit scary how if I feel like it I can leave just about anyone in the dust as if it was nothing. I'm sure by now you've received the software update that made your "Insane Mode" even more insane

As I just mentioned to Mike, good calling leasing your P85D as in 3 years they will likely have a much better Model S available. The one thing I wish was better is the range. I get around 250 miles of range but I'd love if it was more like 400 miles and I think in 3 years we'll get that when the Gigafactory goes online with improved battery chemistry.

I am surprised you are having an issue with iPod integration. Honestly for the Model S you don't need an iPod for essentially the same functionality as iPod integration. Just copy your music to a USB drive, plus in the USB drive to the car and that's about it. You will then be able to access your music with the car's UI without actually needing an iPod.

Wolfman

I like your informative posts but feel it unnecessary that you try to insult MB owners with your comments.
This isn't old school versus new school here. Many simply disagree that the Tesla is a better car (including myself). It's a great different option. Perhaps in 3 years its ready enough to get one. Hopefully with a new body & interior

Landers

Not to mention it seems more and more each day new threads popping up over on their boards regarding issues, issues, issues. Some big, some small.

emilner

Ok. I'm truly looking forward to getting a model S when it comes on par. I really like the concept. But enough BS. Please explain where my W222 has a noisy, vibrating, non linear, annoying shifting car. The rest sounds cool but your ridiculous over statements cheapen the conversation. Every person who has been a passenger in my car keeps iterating how unbelivably quite and smooth the car is. Like it's not even running.

WEBSRFR

Point taken I do have to say though the w222, as refined as it is, does not deliver the instant no lag punch I've now gotten used to. You could still end up not being "in gear" when you need maximum acceleration. Having said that what I said applies more to other gasoline cars as the w222 is the epitome of ICE technology and likely the best gasoline powered car available to buy.

So no disrespect intended and I apologize if I came across that way.

WEBSRFR

I agree. I may have gone a bit overboard and I'll try to avoid that in the future. I'm just enamored by the Tesla driving experience that I forget what a wonderful car the w222 is. I certainly didn't mean to insult Mercedes owners --- I'm still one with two Mercedes vehicles in our household!

So while I apologize if I came across as being disrespectful I will say though that after another 3 years if Mercedes does not have an EV (not some BS plugin hybrid) to compete with an even better Model S, they deserve to loose the additional market share they will loose. I like both Tesla and Mercedes and wish sooner rather than later they compete in the premium EV car arena as right now Tesla has the market to themselves.

UrBusted

I don't mind if there's no EV Mercedes in 3 years, as the good interior is the reason a lot of us buy it. It's the reason they are the best chauffeur cars around places like London. If Tesla try to make a car with a similar interior, the car would go past S63 range, and reach S65 when I've ticked all the boxes. Both of these cars are bought for different reasons and most of the S Class owners that wanted a Tesla have already got one. Tesla is aimed at a different audience compared to the S Class. Its performance/electric vs luxury.

Landers

https://www.yahoo.com/autos/s/consum...150000907.html

WEBSRFR

Yup. They've been having issues with the retractable door handles. These are their second generation door handles so it seems they need further engineering but sometimes in cars things break but if you read the Consumer Reports article Tesla sent someone over next day to fix the door handles on the spot. It's not a special service they offer to Consumer Reports. They do that for all their customers. For minor issues they send "service rangers" to your house to fix minor issues immediately.

Since you brought up the matter of Consumer Reports reliability reports, did you see the latest ranking of 2014 vehicle reliability? Mercedes dropped 11 spots to rank #24 in reliability.

https://www.yahoo.com/autos/s/consum...164529371.html

Hopefully both Tesla and Mercedes with get their reliability numbers up. As much as I like Tesla (and Mercedes too, really!!), I wouldn't consider owning either of those two brands out of warranty

WEBSRFR

I doubt all Mercedes owners who may consider a Tesla have already bought one. Not even close. Already a few forum members have chimed in that they decided to get a Model S after test driving one. Some might have leases that they are tied to. Unlike a traditional car that improves every 3-6 years the Model S is being enhanced almost on a weekly basis with major improvements announced about every 6 months.

A Model S available 3 years from now would be substantially more refined and better than what is available today. They'll certainly make the interior more luxurious and offer greater range and honestly these are the only two issues I have with our Model S.

We can agree to disagree on the two vehicles being offered to two different audiences. I'd still opt for an S class if I'm going to be chauffeured in it but not if I'm on the driver' seat