e_dasani

Why is it a cheap business model, when to begin with you sold your 40k Prius for a whopping 100k. They should be able to afford paying even a monthly stipend to its buyers.

Electric car to me is like a cordless lawn mower, out of juice when you need it most, leaves you hungry for gasoline powered power equipment.

WEBSRFR

Oh this is hilarious. Someone is actually extolling the virtues of being sold a car that stays in the past and never gets better. You must love your flip phone!

Tesla's approach is if a new feature can be uploaded to a customer, why not? It costs them nothing and it has something to do with Tesla customer satisfaction being in the high 90-percentile. Unheard of in the automotive industry.

But of course as we are seeing with the new face lifted Model S along with additional enhancements on the horizon there are always compelling reasons for customers to upgrade to a newer model year.

Take a look at the change log below for all the features that were added to Tesla cars with over the air software updates. I can see how this could be a huge issue for someone who might want to live in the past. A car that gets better over time and enhanced with new features is one of those things you have to learn to live with when owning a modern car

https://teslamotorsclub.com/tmc/thre...angelog.10820/

Ah. The lack of market share. You must be talking about how in the same price segment every one of Tesla's competitors lost market share last year in the US. It is now starting to happen in Europe too country by country.

I hope you won't have too much trouble interpreting the chart below. And this is basically a 2012 design Model S competing with only a 1 year old brand new generation of the S Class.



Ah and here comes the anecdotal friend just in time to corroborate some nonsense. Yes, when you have to cool or heat the car it consumes energy but it in no way has ever impended our use of our car. Your friend must not be driving a Tesla because the Model S has a very similar climate control system to what Mercedes has implanted where part of the AC is always on dealing with moisture issues in the cabin.

For your information The Model S is not just the best selling EV in Norway but in some months it is the best selling car Norway. I think the Norwegians know a thing or too about driving in a cold climate.

Oh the Model X has problems too huh? What new car doesn't have any problems and most of the Model X issues have been now addressed and their production rate is around 800 a week. They have a list of about 8,000 people wanting to buy one. If your "friend" doesn't want his Model X, have him sell it. The wait time so long he can likely sell one for more than what he paid for it.

WEBSRFR

Unfortunately there is no cure for ignorance.

xpl0sive

I think the increase in Tesla sales has a lot to do with the $7,500 Federal Tax Credit. People are buying Tesla's just to get this credit. This was also a factor with the Model 3 deposits. People were rushing to get their names on the list as soon as possible, since there's a limited amount of money set aside for the electric vehicle tax credits. Once that money runs out, no more credits.

Bottom line is that people are buying a Model S for $100k, justifying it by the perceived savings on fuel as well as the $7,500 tax credit. These are not people who were already looking at spending $100k+ on an S Class. They were most likely looking at buying a new C or E class and planning on spending $50-75k.

In my opinion, the model S is not taking any S class customers. It's a completely different demographic who is buying a Model S.

Just because the Model S sales may exceed the sales figures of the S Class, does not make it a better vehicle. It's like arguing that an Android is better or worse than an iPhone because they have more or less sales worldwide. It's all about personal preference. Some people like one, others like the other. All about what the customer's priorities are.

PaulE550

Hey WEBSRER,

I've been following this thread for quite a while now and I find it incredibly entertaining. It's a fun read really. Truly amazing that this topic has garnered so many posts over what should have been a fairly short topic, yet it reads almost like an infomercial . Anyway, here's my question:

You've stated you're not an employee of Tesla. Just a really big fan of the Model S. OK, I get you love your car and that's great. Everyone has their own preferences in what they drive, which I think we can or at least should be able to all respect. However, when anyone states their opinion as to why they prefer their S class, for whatever reason, it's treated as if they're either un-enlightened, clueless or whatever. That tends to make me think that while you may not be a Tesla employee, you do have some financial stake in Tesla doing well financially. Either through some investment (direct stock ownership, trader in the stock or its options, work for a hedge fund or brokerage that is a market maker in the stock, etc.). Thus the never-ending hard sell regarding Tesla and the Model S. Is it any of these or something similar?

absent

All the cars are garbage, Ferraris are absolutely the best and I hope everyone would mortgage himself to the hilt and buy one.
Of course, I own quite a lot of RACE stock.

sambb

I have learned a lot from this thread - both pro -MB and anti-MB. I am a long standing MB owner - 240D, 300D, 300E, 500SEL, 560 SEC, E430, E350, etc.
I recently was looking at a new S class, hoping to buy this week. But I tried the disctronic and it just doesnt compare to the tesla. Yes, the tesla interior isnt as good as MB. But tesla seems like the future, and MB seems like the past. I am thinking about moving over to tesla. I would certainly sacrifice luxury to do that, but I also gain alot. I wonder why MB doesnt update the older cars with software, etc to be as good as the tesla.

I never thought I would go tesla, now I am torn. Visiting the tesla store is so positive - no sales shenanigans,etc. I dont believe that tesla is perfect, not even close. Plenty of issues. But it seems like they are onto something, and in the 100k USD price range, it seems like MB, 7 series, even bentley seem a little dated. I am not sure what i am going to do.

e_dasani

I just saw the light. Tesla is like a messiah, once you see it, it opens your eyes, if Websfr didn't already say it, I will say it, Tesla's over the air software upgrades are a total savior. Enter the new century of Tesla, you just plug-in your car at night and in morning you have a full charge for days travels spreading the message of Tesla. The sales of Tesla are going north, while competitors are going south. Visiting to a Tesla store opened my eyes. It is all in the message, the message of Tesla, the future of non-combustion engines. I invite everyone, to start creating new profiles, and spread this message of Tesla love, talk about how Tesla saved you, talk about how after owning multiple MB's, you finally became a convert to the true and only message of Tesla - the freedom from combustion engines.

*** This message is paid and bought direct from Tesla. Please forward to next 5 Mercedes owners and help save Tesla.

sambb

I took another look at a friend's tesla. I am thinking more and more that this is the right car for this price range. I didnt know that the safety is one of the best in the business also, he told me about that.

That being said, I would rather be driven in the S class.

Tough tough decision.

e_dasani

I am not sure if everyone heard it so I want to make sure, the message gets heard, please forward this to the next 10 MB owners, please help spread the message or Tesla will be lost for ever. The talking points are: Tesla is the future, it has over the air software upgrades, charging it is a breeze, combustion engines are a past. Also in the message, make sure to compare Tesla with S-class, dont bring the word Nissan Leaf or electric lawn mower, mention how tough tough decision it was, but in end you realized it was the right decision.

Heisenberg

I drove in my friend's brand new S P90D with ludicrous upgrade yesterday. It is just incredibly fast from a dig - supercar acceleration ~ 2.6 sec to 60mph. Accelerating so fast with no engine noise is a bit unsettling. The technology is really impressive - the interface on the 17" touchscreen is really nicely done and I love having google maps with satellite for nav. The autonomous driving worked very well on local roads and freeways. Not much driver interaction seems necessary - except for stopping at red lights and stop signs.

Although the design has not really been updated significantly since its introduction, it is a very nice looking car and getting slightly better with the new nose restyle. The wheels were the upgraded 21" and I thought they were awful, cast alloy rather than forged, with tons of metal so definitely very heavy. The interior, while improved from the last time I looked at Tesla years ago, still is nowhere near as luxurious as an S class or even BMW 5/6 with numerous cheap plastic parts and a poorly thought out 'yacht well' between the driver seats - a huge void where a transmission channel would normally be - that is a complete waste of potential storage space. I saw some Evannex consoles for it on Ebay that should be standard equipment.

Other than that, it is hard to fault the car.

I'm kind of torn between purchasing a S63 Coupe that will depreciate like a bomb particularly with a major refresh (with new CAN bus and tech in the E series) imminent in the next 1-2 years; lease deals from Mercedes on the coupe are unfortunately horrid. An M6 is nowhere near as desireable to me, and also is an end of life platform, but BMW lease deals are very tempting. Tesla leases seem to fall somewhere in between, but with the $7,500 tax credit a model S becomes a pretty desirable option.

sambb

Hesienberg, your thoughts are somewhat similar to mine. The interiors on Tesla are better now, but not at the S class level. Then again, i dont drive long distances and have several cars, so the range to me is less important, and i would do fine in a 70. It is far cheaper than an s class. The 17 inch screen on the interior is not luxury, but it sure is super nice. Some people worry about battery degradation or resale, but since I lease, it is less of an issue.

I think the S class is better looking, and is the top ICE car, but the real issue is that the tesla becomes a better car during ownership, and that is attractive to me. I hope MB can up their game with this sort of thing. Competition is good for the market. The new 7 BMW has gone pretty far with tech also. Interesting how tech is changing the game.

WEBSRFR

Finally Mercedes has released an electric car Not sure if it is on par with a Tesla but at least it is a start...

http://jalopnik.com/saturday-night-l...pow-1771490603

WEBSRFR

Glad you enjoyed the P90D test drive Your initial reaction is pretty much how I felt the first time I drove a Tesla. I wasn't ready for all that acceleration without all the huffing and puffing engine and transmission drama.

I completely agree the "yacht floor" concept up front made very little sense when storage space is more useful. The good news is with the recent Model S refresh the yacht floor is no more and the car now comes standard with a very useful center console with storage space as well as docking for a smartphone. This should have been standard from the beginning.

If you want to save extra on your Tesla lease, look into leasing an "inventory" car with a discount applied for miles + months the car has been in use. You can usually shave off about $300 a month from the lease. Also with the recent P90D, you can get better lease deals on inventory P85Ds with Insane Mode, and you still get 0-60 in 3.2s.

There are really no wrong choices in this price segment so buy what you like the best and enjoy it!

drsaab

HI, OP here! how is everyone. Do I get a prize or penalty for the longest thread on MBworld.

Just to update. My car is now 17 mos old now has 48k miles. I spent $900 on my first service. This is when they change the battery coolant and brake fluid as well as visually check everything. I am good for another 50k now. Annual 12k/12 mos service is recommended but not required or necessary.

Car has held up well. Battery was rated 265 miles when new and is 261 now. Should level off at about 255 over the years I predict.

Highest mileage Tesla Model S is at about 175k now and still going strong.

I did have 1 drive-train swap at about 35k due to a faint noise but no performance issues. It is covered for 8 years and unlimited miles. Like anything, the later Vin's have fixes added for issues that were identified.

Autopilot is still amazing every day, and each software update has improved it tremendously since it came out October 14, 2015. That day will be forever in my head in a good way.

If you drive a lot like me, you should get one of these, or upgrade to drive pilot (assuming it does what it says it will do)

It simply is life changing. Massage seats, fancy trim, etc all go out the window when you can sit back and relax and disconnect mostly from the road on your daily commute.

Again, until you experience it, its hard to explain in words, and a test drive is not sufficient because you are on high alert to trust the car, over time, you do trust the car and driving is a bliss. The smooth and silent electric drive-train also are addicting of course.

Full disclosure for the gas lovers, I did have one trip where I chose not to take the Tesla. I went to Toronto in the dead of winter and I rented a 4x4 SUV . Got a Jeep grand Cherokee for like $150 for a week. I could not resist the price, it was a 4x4 and it saved me about 1.5 hrs on a 9 hr drive. This route through PA now has many new superchargers so I would not need to do that again. But these rare situations are manageable in life that way for anyone on the fence who feels they always need a gas car around for long range. So yes for 5 days out of 500 I picked a gas car over the Tesla, and it probably won't happen again in the next 500.


Lets pray the next 50k goes well as I am going out of warranty now. I would never do that in a S class. I might in an E, but never an S. Time will tell.

Enjoy your cars, whatever they may be.

tusabes

So you basically needs a new motor at 35000 miles?

Used high mileage tesla out of the warranty period will be scary . It's easy to resell a 100k mile Benz as they still have another 100k left in them

absent

Tesla has 0.5mln orders for Tesla3 and plans to produce as many cars per year.
That would limit total World production of electric appliances on wheels to that number as it would use the entire World production of Nickel.
Therefore, for you guys who enjoy these cars, I will continue to make ultimate sacrifice and keep buying internal combustion Hi Po cars.
With the limit of production of electric cars, someone has to continue with normal cars.

WEBSRFR

The actual repairs to the electric motors have been very minor. In the interest of getting customers back on the road right away Tesla has been just replacing the motor. Even this occurrence rate is coming way down as they gain more experience in the manufacture of robust automatic electric motors. Their goal is to build an electric motor that will last a million miles:

http://www.businessinsider.com/elon-...orever-2015-11

Another benefit of an EV is that the entire motor can be replaced in a couple of hours and it is vastly more streamlined and efficient than the complicated mess of a combustion engine with a mechanical gear box, emission control system and all the other relics of engineering that are part of the whole contraption.

Try looking up prices for a used Model S. The values are holding at around the same rate or better than a used Mercedes S Class.

WEBSRFR

What a bunch of nonsense. The world running out of the production of nickel capacity? How do you think they make 18/10 and 18/0 Stainless Steel? Nickel is so common that they use it for cutlery. Oh and also the production of actual nickels

http://www.foodservicewarehouse.com/...teel-flatware/

And what is this nonsense about Hi Po combustion cars? Do you mean as in bloated hippos because you surely can't be alluding to actual performance.

A Tesla P90D can obliterate Mercedes' AMG lineup in day-to-day driving.

I have a lesser P85D and if I am at a red light and there is any Mercedes on the lane next to me, it is irrelevant which model it is as I can make it look really small in my review mirror, if I wanted to.

Unless you go with an exotic, no production combustion car can come close to the performance of a Model S as no combustion car can deliver 100% torque at 0 RPM.

xpl0sive

1. nickels are 75% copper and 25% nickel. STEEL Nickel Act is coming into effect in 2016 or 2017, and nickles will not have anymore nickel or copper in them.
2. no such thing as 100% torque at 0 rpm

WEBSRFR

Still spewing the nonsense that we are limited in nickel supply for electric cars? The reason they are discontinuing the use of nickels to make nickels (currency) is to save cost. Nickel is so widely available that 2/3 of the nickel supply is used to make stainless steel. As demand for Nickel goes up, so will mining and production. As long as there is nickel available to make stainless steel, there will be nickel available for building batteries.




https://www.lme.com/metals/non-ferro...d-consumption/

As for Tesla cars delivering maximum torque at 0 RPM, I guess you learned something today: http://cleantechnica.com/2013/09/16/...electric-cars/

absent

I apologize, should have said Lithium not Nickel.
Regardless, production of Teslas and similar creates the worse environmental impact then I.C. cars.
As far as performance, most AMGs, M5 or Audi,RS7 will lose to your Tesla up to maybe 50 or 60 mph only to blow your doors at anything more then that (Chicago Tollways average 75-85mph, including semis).
Although, make sure you race one of these cars from a stop light , no more then a few hundred feet and most of all, with a fully, 100% charged battery, since only then you have the acceleration in low 3s 0-60. On your way home after work, with your battery depleted, I would advise you to refrain from "racing" any performance cars as you would be embarrassed very quick.

http://www.fool.com/investing/genera...or-proble.aspx

Landers

Willing to take this bet? I guarantee you are not. I have an S550. If so let me know as I'm willing to wager whatever amount you want.

Race will be from Dallas to San Antonio, TX.

I guarantee I will be waiting at the finish line for you.

mleskovar

You can even beat the OP 0 - 60, 1/4 mile, and top speed. Look at the stats. There are many cars that do better than the his base Tesla. "Ludicrous" speed would be hard to beat through the traps though. A Z06 will beat a P85 in the 1/4 and costs $50K less. But then you'd have to trailer the Tesla to the strip because after a few runs you wouldn't have enough power to drive it back home

UrBusted

I know of at least 10 Mercedes' which would obliterate your P85D at any red light, of course tuned. Most E63S/CLS63S with tune/downpipes should be able to beat your P85D after 30mph. I know for a fact that there's a Mercedes, whose owners about on these forums, who would probably humiliate the P85D from the start, of course tuned. Of course you're going to say warranty e.t.c but for some people that doesn't matter. Then you'd probably say it matters to you e.t.c. They are still a Mercedes and you still can't make them seem small in your "review mirror" in a race.