When you click on links to various merchants on this site and make a purchase, this can result in this site earning a commission. Affiliate programs and affiliations include, but are not limited to, the eBay Partner Network.
2015 S550 Palladium/Deep Sea Blue, 2016 Tesla Model S 70D, 2015 Volvo XC70
Originally Posted by Landers
Oh so you have the updated numbers for the S Class? Please post them since the Model S is based on updated numbers.
Here is the CR list of >$70k or so cars, sorted by reliability. In 2 parts because of the length/scrollbar. I was surprised to see the MB S looking so bad...it is down at 16th out of 19 models. Tesla MS ranks at 6th.
2015 S550 Palladium/Deep Sea Blue, 2016 Tesla Model S 70D, 2015 Volvo XC70
Here's CR's ranking of "Owner Satisfaction", which they describe as "Would you buy that car again? Indicates percentage of owners surveyed who would definitely purchase the same vehicle again."
2015 S550 Palladium/Deep Sea Blue, 2016 Tesla Model S 70D, 2015 Volvo XC70
Originally Posted by Landers
That tells me nothing. Doesn't show the years. Doesn;t break it off into diesel vs. AMG. vs standard.
CR: "New Car Prediction... For this rating, we averaged a model's Used Car Verdict for the newest three years, provided the vehicle did not change significantly in that time and hasn't been redesigned for 2017. We have found that several model years' data are a better predictor than the single most recent model year. One or two years' data may be used if the model was redesigned in 2016 or 2015, or if there were insufficient data for more years. We also we include a prediction for a model that has been redesigned or is new, based on reliability history or the manufacturer's track record has been consistently above average."
AFAIK, they only survey US subscribers, so there shouldn't be too many diesel MB S-Classes in the results. Like, zero. AMG sells in few enough numbers that even if they are lumped in, it shouldn't skew the results much, imo.
Not to be crude, but I couldn't care less. I see people walking around with their wives everyday that they would consider satisfied with and I wouldn't be caught in public with them. Not to mention Tesla seems to have the highest bias confirmation (Apple too and I have Apple) of any brand.
Thanks for the explanation regarding diesel and AMG.
The "new" Consumer Reports is very confusing. They had a decent system that everybody understood and so they created new graphics. You have to study it to become familiar with it.
Syswei did post a good explanation of how CR does it. They used to separate cars out more, but quit. For example, the E350 and E550 were considered as two different cars for reliability reporting, but now just E Class.
As for Owner Satisfaction, I totally disregard it even though I do trust the reliability information. It is far too subjective. Tesla S is a great example. Very low reliability ratings over the past few years, but number one in satisfaction? Please note, the reports are based on information supplied by Tesla owners. Poor reliability, but I absolutely love the car anyway?
2015 S550 Palladium/Deep Sea Blue, 2016 Tesla Model S 70D, 2015 Volvo XC70
Originally Posted by El Cid
Very low reliability ratings over the past few years, but number one in satisfaction? Please note, the reports are based on information supplied by Tesla owners. Poor reliability, but I love the car anyway?
I don't find it that weird. A person can like a car and "would buy it again" DESPITE its problems. When I owned the W221 I had more than my share of reliability issues...replacing the transmission once, and the airmatic pump twice...but still liked the car enough that I replaced it with a W222. The Tesla is my wife's but I like it enough that we'd buy it again too, even though it isn't 100% perfect.
I don't find it that weird. A person can like a car and "would buy it again" DESPITE its problems. When I owned the W221 I had more than my share of reliability issues...replacing the transmission once, and the airmatic pump twice...but still liked the car enough that I replaced it with a W222. The Tesla is my wife's but I like it enough that we'd buy it again too, even though it isn't 100% perfect.
One other thing I would say are a) depends on what the reliability issues are and b) a lot of it depends on how fast and if they fix it.
I would say fit and finish are far more important than reliability (other than major transmission, electrical, and motor issues). If my armrest breaks and needs to be replaced but the fit and finish are far superior to a car where the armrest doesn't break, but the fit and finish is cheap then I'll take that. IMO the Tesla has the interior of a $50,000 car. If they had the interior approaching a $100,000 car I would probably consider it.
I have the same Consumer Reports info as I have an online subscription.
I could be wrong but I believe that the reliability numbers for the S Class and the Model S are not exactly apples to apples.
The Model S was rated similarly to the S Class until CR reviewed the Model S recently. Meanwhile they did not do a "new" review for the S Class and used a "PREDICTED RELIABILTY" based on I believe either a '14 or '15 S Class. Since I had a '14 S Class and a '16 S Class I know the reliability has improved from the '14 to the '16.
Like I said, I could be wrong here but I believe if CR looked at both a MY '16 S and a MY '16 Model S, the S Class would move up in their "predicted reliability" category. THE DEVIL IS IN THE DETAILS and the interpretation of the details are critical as well. This does not come across on this forum since it seems like one or two people want to "puff" up the Model S. It would be nice to receive facts without all the emotion!
2015 S550 Palladium/Deep Sea Blue, 2016 Tesla Model S 70D, 2015 Volvo XC70
Originally Posted by MTrauman
The Model S was rated similarly to the S Class until CR reviewed the Model S recently. Meanwhile they did not do a "new" review for the S Class and used a "PREDICTED RELIABILTY" based on I believe either a '14 or '15 S Class. Since I had a '14 S Class and a '16 S Class I know the reliability has improved from the '14 to the '16.
Like I said, I could be wrong here but I believe if CR looked at both a MY '16 S and a MY '16 Model S, the S Class would move up in their "predicted reliability" category. THE DEVIL IS IN THE DETAILS and the interpretation of the details are critical as well. This does not come across on this forum since it seems like one or two people want to "puff" up the Model S. It would be nice to receive facts without all the emotion!
Here is my un-emotional analysis:
If you read the quote from CR a few posts ago, it is pretty clear that CR uses the most recent 3 model years in measuring reliability, unless there has been a redesign. I suggest that any move in the reliability ratings of these 2 models is due to the turn of the calendar. So in the current survey, both cars would have been based on MY 14-15-16. In the previous survey, the S-Class was based on MY 14-15, and the Model S on MY 13-14-15. Adding 16, and in the Model S's case dropping 13, can lead to movement in this metric...I don't think a car being "reviewed" by CR leads in itself to a potential change in the reliability rating.
If you read the quote from CR a few posts ago, it is pretty clear that CR uses the most recent 3 model years in measuring reliability, unless there has been a redesign. I suggest that any move in the reliability ratings of these 2 models is due to the turn of the calendar. So in the current survey, both cars would have been based on MY 14-15-16. In the previous survey, the S-Class was based on MY 14-15, and the Model S on MY 13-14-15. Adding 16, and in the Model S's case dropping 13, can lead to movement in this metric...I don't think a car being "reviewed" by CR leads in itself to a potential change in the reliability rating.
I disagree.
See attached.
Current survey for S Class is based on MY 14-15 (same as prior survey) and the Model S is reviewed every year. Not an apples to apples comparison. Please see attached from the current survey.
2015 S550 Palladium/Deep Sea Blue, 2016 Tesla Model S 70D, 2015 Volvo XC70
Originally Posted by MTrauman
I disagree.
See attached.
Current survey for S Class is based on MY 14-15 (same as prior survey) and the Model S is reviewed every year. Not an apples to apples comparison. Please see attached from the current survey.
IMO what you are showing suggests to me that CR didn't have enough survey responses for MY 14 and 16 to be statistically significant for THOSE INDIVIDUAL YEARS. That does not mean that MY 14 and 16 survey responses aren't included in the 'predicted reliability' rating, which is normally based on MY 14-15-16.
Hypothetically...totally inventing some numbers...suppose CR wanted 400 responses in order to show its colored circles of an individual MY...maybe the S-Class had 350 responses for 14, 450 for 15, 350 for 16...the reliability rating could still incorporate the 1150 responses across 3 MYs.
Current survey for S Class is based on MY 14-15 (same as prior survey) and the Model S is reviewed every year. Not an apples to apples comparison. Please see attached from the current survey.
If I am reading this correctly, the S-Class while being rated excellent on most or very good on all important aspects of the car is rated poor overall due to audio system issues?
I wonder how they weigh each section. So it seems that CR is exactly what I think they are for cars. Completely useless...
That said, I am not even aware of audio issues or that there is a major systemic issue with audio?
The system is the best of any MB as far as I am concerned.
If I am reading this correctly, the S-Class while being rated excellent on most or very good on all important aspects of the car is rated poor overall due to audio system issues?
I wonder how they weigh each section. So it seems that CR is exactly what I think they are for cars. Completely useless...
That said, I am not even aware of audio issues or that there is a major systemic issue with audio?
The system is the best of any MB as far as I am concerned.
I agree on the Audio System! It is among the best if not the best in the auto industry. This is why I commented above stating the rating was thrown off by the audio system.
In fact and in my opinion the audio system in the std format (not the 3d format--although this is awesome as well) is so good that when I ordered my '16 S550 4matic, I ordered everything I could except the 3d stereo and the refrigerator. My MSRP was $137k. AND I love the audio system.
I wonder how they weigh each section. So it seems that CR is exactly what I think they are for cars. Completely useless...
Oh I just love it how in the previous page a big deal was attempted to be made about Tesla's Consumer Report scores and now that it has been pointed out with exhaustive data that Mercedes, and the S Class specifically, ranks way below the Model S both in terms of reliability as well as customer satisfaction now the Consumer Reports data is "completely useless."
Granted none of these studies are perfect but I have to say I give more weight to a Consumer Reports study than any other study because they are truly independent and unlike automotive media outlets they do not accept advertising from those who they review.
Consumer Reports clearly saw the reliability issues with the initial Model S vehicles and went as far as to not recommend the Model S for a while. This latest study shows how well Tesla has addressed the reliability concerns with the earlier Model S vehicles as the Model S is back on the list of recommended vehicles.
The S Class having ranked 16th out of 19th it appears Mercedes has some work to do...
Not to be crude, but I couldn't care less. I see people walking around with their wives everyday that they would consider satisfied with and I wouldn't be caught in public with them.
I would probably seriously consider P100D if that car looked more upscale and visibly upgraded over the models 60/75/90 and the interior would at least match the Audi S8/MB S-Class/BMW 7 Series.
As of now, just to have a short lived acceleration is not enough.
Got it. You see an ugly woman and think it and you have class, but I have none because I say the exact same thing you are thinking. Makes sense. What are you 4? Or no you probably think everything is rainbows and unicorns and everyone is pretty.
I simply speak my mind and don't hide how I feel. THe point is I don't care what 1000 people's satisfaction rating is for anything. I simply have my own criteria and something either meets the expectations or it doesn't.
Oh I just love it how in the previous page a big deal was attempted to be made about Tesla's Consumer Report scores and now that it has been pointed out with exhaustive data that Mercedes, and the S Class specifically, ranks way below the Model S both in terms of reliability as well as customer satisfaction now the Consumer Reports data is "completely useless."
Since I have not referred to that, please pick somebody else's post to reply to...
Must have been WEBSRFR while he and his fellow Tesla employees were testing some of the new AUTOPILOT features that were designed to destroy any MB auto even close to the Tesla
10-27-2016, 09:39 AM
