UrBusted

I think the p100d would improve top speed, not acceleration from below. Going 0-60 in below 2.6 seconds requires tyres that would wear like crazy.

WEBSRFR

Not quite. The P90D with Ludicrous Mode is already doing the 0-60 run in 2.6s with standard factory tires. The P100D will most likely improve all aspects of performance even further, not that it is even needed at this point.

The numbers only tell part of the story. The torque curve in a Tesla with ludicrous mode is surreal. To 60, it is more potent than what you experience in a Bugatti Veyron, the quintessential supercar.

And Tesla is just getting started.

"The Ludicrous Speed upgrade combined with the “Fast and Furious”-ready Model S P90D makes for some shocking acceleration numbers. With Ludicrous mode engaged and using the new launch control feature, 60 mph in the Tesla comes in a staggeringly quick 2.6 seconds with the driver experiencing a peak of 1.1 g up through 14 mph. Given the Model S P90D hangs with hypercars in acceleration from 0 to 60 mph, the list of cars the P90D beats to 60 mph is a long one, including everything from the vaunted Nissan GT-R to the big, bad Lamborghini Aventador and Bugatti Veyron. Only two cars that we’ve tested can outright beat the P90D to 60 mph: the Porsche 918 Spyder and Ferrari LaFerrari. As for the “other” hybrid hypercar, the McLaren P1, the Tesla ties it in a race to 60 mph."

http://www.motortrend.com/cars/tesla...t-test-review/

JayinToronto

You better hope he's not the guy who designed the first iteration of the Panamera!!!

syswei

I used to think that when it is time for me to replace the W222, it would be with a W223. But now I'm hoping that someone has a suitably luxurious EV ready, when I'm ready. Whether it is MB, Audi, Tesla, or whomever, we'll have to see.

WEBSRFR

Good point. Thankfully he's not

He's the guy who designed the Porsche Mission E interior and it will be interesting to see what he will do with the Tesla interior which I'll be the first to admit needs some work.

http://electrek.co/2016/04/11/tesla-...hes-mission-e/

WEBSRFR

In 2-4 years you will have a nice selection to choose from. Tesla vehicles will become increasingly more luxurious and legacy luxury carmakers will build compelling no compromise EVs that retain their luxury attributes. Audi. Mercedes, Porsche, and BMW are doing their best to build a compelling EV before they lose more market share to Tesla.

As this happens legacy carmakers will increasingly find it harder to sell combustion vehicles. In the premium car segment within the next 3-5 years it will be almost a given that the car is an EV. We are almost at a point where 300-400 mile range and 15 minute charging is possible and with that an EV will work even for people who like to drive hundreds of miles in a day.

What might surprise you is that the market will change significantly in the next 2-5 years in that carmakers you did not even know about will offer very compelling EVs. Already there are 2-5 well funded (greater than hundreds of millions in investments) car companies working in stealth mode building EVs and you will see some of their products soon. This is not even counting the EV that Apple is building with basically an unlimited budget.

We are witnessing the entire auto industry being reinvented with EVs. Exciting times.

fathom6

somebody missed their nightly meds. or as they "lunacy has no bounds"

absent

It is lunacy at it's worst.
California is already struggling with electricity supply, rolling blackouts happened before and are inevitable in the future.
Other states are in no better shape either.
Now imagine adding millions of these electric pod appliances added to the pool of electricity users, replacing current cars.
Rationing electricity and walking instead of driving is coming together with EVs.

Rubberknuckle

How will things change when more homes become energy providers instead of energy consumers by installing solar panels with inverters and batteries like the Tesla Powerwall?
The change is already happening in the Western World, slowly, but it should accelerate. As electrical power becomes more freely available at zero additional cost, the cause of EV becomes more compelling.
I think Mr Musk is in a good place, or at least looking at being in a good place in the next 5 years or so.

WEBSRFR

I expect what I said to happen over the next 3-5 years. You are obviously not aware of the billions being invested in EVs not just by Tesla but by other well funded companies that are being staffed by the finest engineers who used to work for BMW, Mercedes, Audi, and Porsche.

What do you think happened to most of BMW's top EV engineers working on the i-cars? Apparently they were not satisfied with BMW's slow pace that they quit en masse. They are now working for well funded new EV company.

In 5 years some people on this forum might be considering EVs not just from Tesla but companies you currently don't even know exist.

Denying what is happening in the auto industry with a swift move in the premium segment to EVs is less lunacy and more luddism.

WEBSRFR

What utter BS. I guess your FUD hysteria about electricity is absent of the key fact that due to higher efficiency electricity usage in the US has been going down while production has been going up, partly due to the installation of solar panels and other renewables.

http://aceee.org/blog/2014/02/us-ele...ining-and-ener

Since we installed a solar system on our roof we are now a net generator of electricity and once the system is paid for in several years the energy to not just power our house but our car will essentially be free courtesy of the giant nuclear fission reactor up in the sky called the sun.

Your FUD lacks so much logic that you fail to realize we will run out of oil literally billions of years before we run out of solar energy from the sun but I understand how a false narrative of facts works better for your hysteria.

MTrauman

WEBSRFR is apparently off his meds again.


I think I better let him talk to people I know with PHDs in the energy field since I know a number of these folks since Westinghouse Electric is in my "backyard". They would be able to enlighten him abit but it would be a waste of time.


Clearly WEBSRFR is not an authority on electricity since he cannot even put together essential facts to support his position. He just knows how to spout off on "his way of life" which clearly involves Tesla cars and Solar Panels.


Get a Clue!

absent

No, he is not on meds, he is a Tesla Jihadist......

El Cid

Factually, within the lifetimes of anyone posting on this forum: the combustion automobile will be the dominant form of transportation.
Solar panels on homes and comercial buildings will generate less than 1% of the electricity required, if that. Furthermore, the energy industry is fighting the regulations requiring them to purchase electricity from "homeowners" solar panels. I would place my money on the energy companies.
Bottom line is that both EV's and solar panels for buildings are a niche and will be for our futures.
Look at all the major things predicted about transportation in the 1940's and 50's and see that almost none of it has occured. GPS, bluetooth, etc. are not major.
Of course there are those that sill see themselves as George Jetson.

WEBSRFR

Perhaps if you consider all parts of the developing world but in the United States and other developed countries the combustion engine will begin precipitous drop starting in the premium car segment and quickly work its way down as soon as the Tesla Model 3 ships.

Of course even if only EVs are sold it will take 20 years for combustion cars to leave roads but the key is what percentage of vehicles sold each year will be EVs and this number will start seeing an exponential increase within the next 5-7 years. When the % of EVs sold goes over 50% combustion vehicles will be done and it will be a race to the bottom where only the least premium cars will still be shipped with combustion engines.

Already some countries in Europe are mulling mandating emission free cars as early as 2025. Norway might be the first and already about 25% of vehicles sold in Norway are zero emission.

The Tesla Model 3 has yet to ship but already with the ~ 400,000 orders just about every model it competes with is registering sales declines. The final nail in the combustion coffin will be when it becomes cheaper to build a 250 mile range EV than a combustion contraption of many moving parts and this will come to fruition when the Tesla Gigafactory becomes fully operational.

fathom6

source: evObsession.com

El Cid

[QUOTE=WEBSRFR;6863951]the combustion engine will begin precipitous drop starting in the premium car segment and quickly work its way down as soon as the Tesla Model 3 ships.
[U]NEVER GOING TO HAPPEN. Absolutely no evidence of this occurring[/U].

what percentage of vehicles sold each year will be EVs and this number will start seeing an exponential increase within the next 5-7 years. When the % of EVs sold goes over 50% combustion vehicles will be done and it will be a race to the bottom where only the least premium cars will still be shipped with combustion engines.
An "exponential increase" of 1-2% is still almost neglible in the overall number of vehicles manufactured.

Already some countries in Europe are mulling mandating emission free cars as early as 2025.
This has already proven to be false. "Mulling" ain't doing.

The Tesla Model 3 has yet to ship but already with the ~ 400,000 orders just about every model it competes with is registering sales declines. Sales declines are not due at all to the Model 3, Model S or any other Tesla vehicle; there are multitude of other factors involved. Auto sales, especially mid-priced and premium are very cyclical. For past few years, sales have been booming and now the normal cycle is that they will drop.
As has been said many, many, many times before and you cannot grasp, orders aren't sales.

If there was even a remote possibility of your premises, why on earth would 99% of the automotive manufacturers be investing billions upon billions of dollars/Euros/yen/whatever in R&D, plant construction, equipment purchases, etc. for combustion engine cars??????

El Cid

Tesla stock dropped another 3.4% after Elon Musk gave a presentation on the future of Tesla Motors.

syswei

Electric-only BMW 3-series rumored to be on the way...article

WEBSRFR

And your point is?

One of the longest threads on the Tesla Motors forum is titled "What caused TSLA stock to go up/down today" and it originates from 2012 and has hundreds of posts. Tesla stock goes up and down all the time but overall it has done remarkably well.

The fact that Tesla stock went up or down 3% in a day is news to children who don't understand how a company such as Tesla operates to disrupt an industry by relentlessly innovating and investing in growth.

https://forums.tesla.com/forum/forum...o-updown-today

So if you think Tesla is not a good stock. Don't buy shares. Leave that to long term investors who are in it for the long haul. If Jeff Bezos was concerned about short term stock movements and worked to appease little children who invest in stock to get rich in a quarter or two Amazon would likely be 5% of the size it is today.

When Tesla ramps up their Gigafactory they will produce more batteries than the entire world supply. The opening for the Gigafactory is this Friday and it wasn't created to appease children playing with stocks.

WEBSRFR

It is a good question to ask Kodak and film camera manufacturers at the advent of digital cameras and it is a good question to ask Nokia and traditional phone makers at the advent of smartphones. They all underestimated the scope and magnitude of an industry disruption and paid the price.

With the Model S Tesla has shown that they can compete with the S Class, the finest that Mercedes has to offer in the same price segment, and yet outsell the S Class in the US and Western Europe. A fact some in this forum proclaimed would never happen and I am sure some are still in denial.

When the Model S driving experience becomes available at a much lower cost with the Model 3, premium carmakers will have a very hard time selling their combustion contraptions that will seem to be increasingly antiquated in technology and driving refinement.

I stand by my predictions. Cars will go electric and this will happen a lot sooner than people realize. Norway is about to mandate only EVs be sold by 2025 and already about 20-25% of the vehicles they sell are EVs. Other European countries will not be that far behind.

The sales chart I posted of what is happening already to cars the Model 3 competes with is quite telling on what will happen to the industry of combustion cars.

El Cid

Webbie: According to Forbes your "mandates for 2025 and 2030 electric vehicles only" have been proven false. The source apparently misinterpreted information coming from some politicians in those countries. No such laws have been passed. Not to mention that in Germany, it would virtually destroy the largest industry and biggest export industry it has.
Do you have a source, other than the electric car industry or one of the "green" sites?
Incidentally, Kodak, the film industry, film camera industry and phone industries are still producing phones. They were not totally eliminated.
As for the stock loss, I do that to counter your rose colored glasses about Tesla and Musk being perfect.

El Cid

You are still misinterpreting the data. It shows that car sales are going down, but not the reasons. There is zero proof or indication even that the decline in some (not all) premium car sales is due to competition from Tesla, much less from the maybe here someday Model 3.
Furthermore there is zero correlation between Tesla, Model S, Model 3 or Models XYZ and the elimination of combustion cars.
Electric cars will increase as a part of the automobile segment, but combustion cars will still be the dominant form after you pass on - perhaps to be buried in your Model 3.

edwardscpa

I've driven an S class for over a decade, and I'm planning to replace it with another S class shortly... probably an S65 at that. That said, I drove a P85DL last week and immediately concluded that whatever ICE car I buy right now, it will inevitably be my last. The benefits of EV are immediate and obvious.

- EV cars in general can be made to be light years ahead of ICE in terms of power and handling... it's not even a fair comparison. The next major leap in cars will be when tires and motors are gone in favor of gravity/mag drives or something, because EV can already lay down more power than 4 tires can handle up to speeds that will get your car impounded, and the center of gravity is as low as can be.
- Most of the maintenance and wear items on an ICE car don't exist on an EV, so again, not even close.
- In home battery backups will displace those awful nat gas generators and power conditioners as well (not to mention APC units throughout the house). Solar panels will become pervasive as soon as someone figures out how to produce panels that aren't fugly. Excess solar power will get stored in the batteries, and that will be used to charge your car at night.

All that said, the batteries cost way too much ($45K, but I hear they are working on that), the range is too limited, the charging infrastructure and speed isn't there yet, and the Tesla finishes are not nearly as nice as the price. Tesla owners like to brag that their cars are so mechanically simple that there's just nothing to break on them, and they are right; for that same reason, however, they should be relatively cheap to build and buy, because the sum of the parts above and beyond the cost of the batteries does not nearly support the $140K price...the delta alone would pay cash for a new S Class. Instead, folks are doing funny math WRT fuel and maintenance savings and tax credits to justify it. That's fine for early adopters, but expect EV prices to plummet over the next decade.

Give me a P200DL with an S Class body on top for $120K and it's over.

syswei

"Audi aims to have three electric models by 2020 and for electric vehicles to account for 25 to 30 percent of its sales by 2025, CEO Rupert Stadler told a German newspaper." Automotive News article