EPA classifies cars by combining passenger and cargo volume. E is officially midsize and Model S large. "Dimensionally"...I think you mean the 'footprint'... isn't as relevant as you seem to think...because the Model S's EV drivetrain is simply more space efficient.

Oh, and if you're a person who doesn't consider cargo volume, but does consider passenger volume when selecting a car...there's always the optional third row (kid-sized) for the Model S.

 

Excellent article from Consumer Reports. It does show if Musk is successful with the Model 3 sales how the Model S owners will be negatively impacted. Sounds like some Model S owners are already being negatively impacted by the overuse of SuperChargers.

Thanks for drawing the article to our attention as this is the type of info. that is important and may convince one to not buy a Tesla Model S.

 

How do those kids fare in the third row in the event of a rear end collision?

 

I wonder about this as well. If I recall, MB had (maybe still does) rear seats in their E Class wagon for kids.

 

I know I yanked the car seats out of the third row of our Mdx after I read how dangerous that was in a rear end collision




I can use common logic to predict how my kids' legs would do ... But I'll use the Internet

 

When I buy a luxury car I would NEVER consider a third row for kids or cargo space for that matter. For that I have a SUV.

I consider interior space as the place I live in, not the trunk space. This is my personal opinion of course. EPA numbers have no relevance in my purchase decision.

 

Oh, so cargo space DOES matter to you...that's one reason you have an SUV. But not everyone has an SUV, correct? MANY of those people are likely to consider cargo space in their purchase of a SEDAN, no?

 

The Model S has great cargo space, i nice side effect of small electric motors but when I compare cars, normally I will look at exterior dimensions, build-level, pricing, etc.

A Model S 70D nicely compares to an E-Class, and I don't view the E-Class as a luxury car either. These are both premium vehicles.

If cargo space is a determining factor, you can compare a Model S with a GLE coupe, etc.

Pricing of EV's will adjust over time when more competitors will arrive (probably first from China) and when the cost of batteries decline. Batteries alone make up over 20% of the cost of the Model S.

 

For my SUV, yes. For a luxury sedan, no

 

It seems to be impossible for Tesla owners to understand that some on the S-Class forum actually understand the technology, see the benefits of EV, like fast acceleration and still choose the S-Class. It's not a group of old-school dummies that haven't seen the light.

Many for one reason or another some may just not like the Model S for its looks (me), it's lower build-quality or have range anxiety. Some (like me) simply don't think they compare directly. It doesn't make the Model S bad nor does it need any defenders.

 

This sums it up perfectly ... Well said

 

This may sound incredibly simplistic, but the FACT of the matter is that about the only things the Model S and the W222 have in common, is the price and the fact that they both have four wheels. This discussion is ridiculous. The two cars do not compare, period. One is the flagship of a legendary auto maker, with lineage than no other auto maker can match. The other is basically an iPhone on wheels, produced by a Silicon Valley "start up" company. This comparison is like comparing Donald to Barack. One is apologetic, the other says "Kiss My ***!" Sorry, but the two are incomparable.

 

Just a quick FYI. Model S that have the optional third-row child seats also have an added support bar installed to make the space safe. I can assure you that set up has been extensively tested.

 

Good post lola. Agreed ice days are numbered.

 

Not in either of our lifetimes. There is a place for both, but they are different types of vehicles for different purposes for different people. There are also other technolgies coming onboard, so who knows what effect that will have?
Happy Motoring in YOUR choice of vehicle!

 

Just some Context
Hong Kong Vehicle Tax is 115%
A 85D costs around 830K HKD with minimal options (Tax exempt)
a CLS 400 costs 830k HKD with tax included

The family has a Tesla Model S 85 with 21' inch rims. When it came time to sell the 335 we decided between a 640 GC, CLS 400 and a Tesla Model S 85D.

Pro's
- The Torque makes the car feel very fast and the car does not feel like it is a 5000 pound porker
- The low center of gravity makes the car handle very stable
- The exterior design is quite classy (subjective)
- It's Electric, its green (If you live in an area where the electricity is derived from sustainable sources)
- upgraded interfaces (Benz should take note)
- Its deceptively fast and can lead to your license being taken away
- It has Autopilot, for those impress your date moments (If you so desperately need a car to impress a date)
- Rear Seat legroom is very good
- Having the Air Con running even when you are parked (Eat that parking ****)

Con's
- Interior trim quality is terrible.
a) Dash is made of this cheap hollow material that makes sounds over rough terrain
b) The Steering Wheel Buttons are very cheap, if you have ever owned/rented a ford. That is what that feels like.
c) The bowling ball return alley is great for purses but not comfortable for people who drive/drove any conventional vehicle.
d) The gigantic lcd screen is an eyesore after long trips at night.
e) LCD screen occasionally hangs/crashes, usually more when the sun is shining directly onto the dash for a prolonged period of time
f) The NVH on the highway is unacceptable for a car of this price range. My CLS has much better sound isolation on the highway.
g) Our Model S door panel 'leather' is starting to bubble.
h) The base model seats are not comfortable for long trips
i) Forecasted Mileage have never reflected actual mileage

Overall: Tesla Model S is a good car, if you have heavy incentives from your government.
1) If you wanted a performance car (without gov incentive)- Better off with an E63 or RS6.
2) If you want a environmental car - Its better than anything in the market. The i3 has abysmal range. Check where your locality sources their power.
3) If you want a car with internal comfort - Do not look here, its not even close to any german vehicle. Living with one, you can tell there wasn't much thought put into it (Compared to any large size Benz vehicle). For this price you can get an S Class and an S class will blow this car out of the water in internal comfort.
4) If you want to boast to your friend how chic and hip you are then this car will definitely be the perfect accessory for your apple iphone, macbook and iwatch.

I personally chose a CLS 400, it won't have the straight-line performance of the tesla but it easily bests it in anything other than that. i don't agree with all the points by websrfr but the updates are definitely something that the germans should embrace, the updated interface earlier in the year definitely helps freshen the car up.

 

Wow took me two nights to read all this. I actually learned a lot!

 

OT, a drag race 2017 Bentley Bentayga vs. 2016 Tesla Model X


yes, i know there's a difference in msrp and luxury, but I thought it interesting

 

One of the Tesla forums has a google spreadsheet where members can report the cars that they are selling/trading when they buy a Model S. It is absolutely all over the place...Prius, Smart forTwo, Civic, Altima, Corvette, SL550, 7-series, S-Class, A8, Panamera, Suburban, GL-Class, and everything in between.

Evidently, the Model S is a substitute for SOME people for S/7/A8.

And SOME will find value in its cargo capacity.

 

The Model S is a substitute for some people for the S/7/A8 but so is the Rolls Royce Ghost, Mercedes E63, the AMG GT and some people even go from the S Class to an Audi A4. This doesn't mean that any of these cars are in the same category. There are many reasons for switching, such as financial, change in needs e.t.c but to be honest the S Class doesn't have a direct competitor. The 7 and the A8 are direct competitors as they are sport car orientated luxury vehicles, so right now the closest cars to the S Class are the Jaguar XJ, Audi A8 and the BMW 7 Series.

 

Where people come from really doesn't mean anything in terms of which cars are comparable.

Or maybe we should compare a Civic and Prius to the S-Class was well?

 

People are funny creatures. The human mind is prone to bias and will invent just about any justification for one's beliefs. Once an opinion is formed, confirmation bias kicks in and facts become dismissible if they don't fit our theory. Fanboy-ism is a mental illness invented to write off anyone who is loyal to the competition. On both sides of a brand war. As if fanboys randomly became fans despite the lack of any merit. Have you ever used this logic? 1) I'm smart; 2) they disagree with me; 3) therefore they must be DUMB. I love gas engines, Tesla owners love something eco-friendly, therefore they're "bleeding heart liberals." Can you see a flaw in that logic when two highly intelligent people disagree on something? Sadly, those exhibiting the Dunning-Kruger effect are oblivious to their own ignorance.

Examples of bias at work:
• Most Tesla owners minimize the interior fit and finish issue (I don't LOVE the fit and finish, but there are much more important things than luxury)
• Tesla owners minimize the 270 mile range as being a non-issue 99% of the time (I do wish it had 50% more range and supercharged twice as fast, but I got chided on the Tesla forums for not being loyal enough!)
• Most S-class owners will never even go the full range of 512 mile range (w/ 10% reserve fuel, MUCH less at 80 MPH) but insist this is SUPER important... you know... just in case... (this is important the 1-2 times in the car's lifetime you do road trips)
• Everyone knows the S-class is the better car, right? But wait... Tesla has a 98% customer satisfaction score, and the S-class has 81%, so... clearly FANBOYS. They're clearly not as smart as S-class owners, right? Except most Tesla owners used to be S-class owners, 7-series owners, Porsche owners... (I also have a 2014 Mercedes GL 350 BlueTEC which I only use for hauling our Airstream or large items)
• Noise = soul, silence = no soul? Recall noise is an unfortunate byproduct of the internal combustion process, and that M-B works VERY HARD to eliminate noise. Yet when the competition is quieter, it's BAD.
• I love instant torque, unless the other guy has a lot more... then torque is no big deal, top speed is the thing.
• The Tesla is an unnecessarily bloated 4800 lbs... oh wait, the Model S is 4819 lbs... so never mind, that doesn't matter either.

Can we all just agree that human beings are ridiculous? All of us?

 

Agreed and the Tesla Model S doesn't have a direct competitor either. How many other cars have its slate of advantages, outside of the Tesla Model X? And how many other cars in its price range have these awful hard plastic front seatbacks?

The point I was trying to make isn't that the S-Class and Model S are direct competitors. It was that the Model S shouldn't be compared solely to the E/5-series/A6. That putting the Model S and S-Class in the same sentence is not ridiculous.

People will cross shop all kinds of things. Before we ordered a Model S, the final 2 contenders were the Model S and the Q7. BTW if Audi USA hadn't castrated its auto-braking features for the US market, my choice would have been the Q7, whereas my wife I think would still have wanted the Tesla.

 

Most here can afford either car easily, it is ONLY a matter of personal preference, what works for some, does not for others.I appreciate the benefits of Tesla (saying bye bye to gas stations in particular) but in the end decided it just wasn't for me.
I drive 2-4 times/week about 35 miles on an open highway with no cops or traffic (4 AM) to my warehouse, tried Tesla over long weekend (P90D) and compared to my then E63S, that car was just dead at speeds over 100mph.
Academic issue for most, disqualification for me, I also happen to like to have a very nice, driver oriented and luxurious interior and lack of it make me lose interest in such car immediately (regardless of "superior" acceleration on 300ft "race track" between Red lights)

 

No quarrel with that. Tesla has some strengths and some weaknesses, and will appeal or not depending on a buyer's priorities. My solution is to own both a luxury MB and a Tesla, so can enjoy the virtues of each.