MBNUT1

A very modern looking car.

syswei

Audi etron sales look pretty soft in the U.S. Range? Price? Styling? Lack of charging infrastructure?

...While the Tesla Model 3 sells in pretty good numbers in the U.S., even compared to mainstream market leaders like Camry and Civic...about half the units of either in Q3...but since the Model 3 is more expensive than either, if we were to measure in dollars rather than units, the gap would be less than 2x.

Wolfman

Audi is not doing themselves any favors in how they sell their cars. I for one would only lease a 1st. gen EV from a manufacturer as the reliability and value dynamics of these cars are completely unknown. And they are making the car incredibly expensive to lease (as most Audis). This would be their opportunity.
Residual is low and MF is high, so a regular eTron below $90k was something like $1400 a month. I can get two high performance Tesla Model 3's for that.

I hope that MB is smarter with the EQC roll-out. Make it attractive and move a lot of metal. But if the car is $25k more than the GLC it's based on and expensive to lease it'll be a dead duck...

absent

I am open to a daily driver EV that would never go on long trips anyway.
Had a Panamera Turbo S (was really surprised by poor quality of some switches and controls in that car, window switch came off when tried to close it and ended in my palm, a cheap plastic thing belonging in a KIA Rio at best) and found myself using electric mode very often so the different characteristics of EV do not bother me.
I am currently doing a turbo upgrade with Renntech in my car so will keep it probably for the next 2 or 3 years.
Then I will replace it possibly with EV, maybe a Taycan or Audi GT or maybe even a Tesla if they come up with something drastically improved comfort, luxury and styling wise.
Also, they would need to improve their performance consistency (like Taycan) so there is no significant drop off in it after driving with a heavy foot.
I'd like to buy a car US made and stop spending money on foreign products for a change.

bkdc

My EV Priorities:
1) Range
2) Interior comfort and luxury (something Tesla doesn't offer).. just ask anyone who has to suffer sitting in the back seat of the Tesla S
3) Upgradeability - Tesla wins here as the software continually gets updated. I want Mercedes to do the same Manufacturers are able to sell new cars to those who want the latest and greatest infotainment and an upgradeable system will likely decrease long term sales.
4) Performance takes a back seat for me, and as we are looking at pretty impressive long term durability for Tesloop's Teslas, you have to wonder whether it isn't better to make the car simpler in order to obtain long term durability. Magic body control is passed over for an adaptive air suspension system. I just want a nice reasonably comfortable and reliable ride with a well insulated silent cabin.

I'm not so worried about a charging network. This will sort itself out but automakers need to collaborate on a standard.
I wish MB would just buy Tesla.

syswei

Tesla is definitely short of the cash it should have to do what it wants to do. A more natural fit than MB would be Toyota as an acquirer, since Toyota seems to be behind MB and others in developing EVs. But for anyone to acquire Tesla, I think Tesla's stock price would probably have to come down quite a bit, first. Which may happen.

syswei

P.S. One thing that I'd kind of like to see is an arrangement between MB and Tesla wherein MB would provide a cash infusion to Tesla, most of which would be allocated to further building out the Supercharger network, and MB EVs would have access to that network.

Utopia Texas

I wonder how the power outages currently in California due to fires is affecting all the EV’s there.

syswei

I would guess not so good for EVs. But ICE cars can be impacted by power outages too, due to the need for electricity for the pumps to work at gas stations.

syswei

Dyson abandons plan to introduce an EV. They had 500 people working on it. But too much competition, it seems.

syswei

Real-world testing of the efficiency of Audi, MB, and Tesla EVs makes Audi look pretty bad. Without towing a trailer, the MB EQC 400 is about 6% less efficient than the Tesla Model X, but the Audi etron is 17% less efficient, measured by watt-hours used per mile. And P.S. this is despite the Tesla being considerably roomier inside.

This is a guess but I would assume that weight (due to not being from-the-ground-up EV-specific platforms) and aero tweaks (like flush door handles on the Tesla) might be contributing to the Germans' results.

syswei

Porsche introduces 4S version of Taycan, starting at $103k.

The 3 announced trims so far are around $2k less than the respective Panamera SWB trims. So we may eventually see a "Taycan 4" starting at about $90k and a "Taycan" starting at about $85k.

syswei

A few tidbits form Porsche

EV Macan appears in 2021, and the ICE version will be discontinued after 2023 or so.

Vice Chairman "Meschke predicts that “30-40%” of Porsches sold will be all-electric in five years’ time."

"Meschke, meanwhile, predicts that Porsche may make the current lithium ion batteries 20-25% more efficient but “the next big step is solidstate” batteries, which for the same output as today’s could be half the weight. However, these are “five to seven years from industrialisation”."

syswei

Pininfarina Battista EV. Sub 2 sec 0-62. Production starts 2020.

Wolfman

Vox, a German TV channel got their hands on a Taycan, drove it from Luxembourg to Germany and drag raced it against a Tesla 100P under more realistic conditions. Not a prepped strip and light rain.

Here is a link for non-Germans
https://jalopnik.com/porsche-taycan-...n-h-1839136144

The original show is a obviously longer...

syswei

I do think the Taycan is superior for many potential buyers, but the Model S will still imo have a reasonable market share, due to price, range, charging infrastructure, Autopilot, and some upgrades due next year. In my family's case, our Model S is unlikely to be replaced by another Tesla.

Wolfman

No doubt. The Model S Performance model is also dramatically cheaper than it used to be. I remember that Ludicrous mode used to be $20k, now a freebee. I looked an old P85 config and its was $30k+ more. A rare scenario in the automotive world to see MSRP drops like this but without an exterior/interior re-design I believe the car will see continued lower sales, no matter the price.

syswei

Tesla Model S Plaid: A three-motor track-ready version of the big Tesla sedan is on its way.

Wolfman

I am fairly certain that the Plaid version of the Model S was nothing more than a roadster mule. Which came in handy when the Taycan came out.

syswei

2022 AMG C63 to reportedly downsize from V8 to 4-cyl hybrid while retaining 503 hp and boosting torque.

syswei

Hmmn, interesting theory. Could be so, I haven't followed things Tesla that closely since I don't think I'll be buying again from them in the next couple years at least, but I would have thought the new Roadster would be even faster.

syswei

...makes me wonder if a V8 PHEV might someday be pushed by AMG to 900 or even 1000 hp, rather than the 800 that is being talked about the for the AMG GT73 PHEV.

syswei

This MB EQC 400 review indicates that the chief EQC engineer put the weight penalty of building off the GLC platform rather than a from-the-ground-up EV platform at 330 pounds. Of course there are interior space downsides as well. Despite being a compromised vehicle, though, it is on my list as a possibility to replace our Tesla.

Utopia Texas

That is a pretty underwhelming review.....

syswei

Yup. EQS should be much better, though, as I think it will be on a from the ground up EV platform.