I would like to understand why some HATE the Driver Assist (semi-autonomous) package
04-04-2018, 10:29 PM
#1
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I would like to understand why some HATE the Driver Assist (semi-autonomous) package
In reading the various posts that have to do with the Driver Assistance Package or semi-autonomous driving, I would love to get a better understanding WHY some people hate it. The common response is "I like to drive the car by myself as I have been doing for many years now. I don't need that crap. I don't trust it". I could not disagree more with this type of response. Is it age related (older folks like myself love the semi-autonomous features and young people hate it)? IMO, the semi-autonomous and all the safety features help to prevent accidents or even fatalities. In any case, I would appreciate the responses to this conundrum from all you folks on this forum. This baffles me. The awesome Driver Assistance Package and safety options on the new S Class is the major reason why I decided to sell my 2014 S550 and go for the new and greatly improved S450.
04-05-2018, 12:01 AM
#2
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In reading the various posts that have to do with the Driver Assistance Package or semi-autonomous driving, I would love to get a better understanding WHY some people hate it. The common response is "I like to drive the car by myself as I have been doing for many years now. I don't need that crap. I don't trust it". I could not disagree more with this type of response. Is it age related (older folks like myself love the semi-autonomous features and young people hate it)? IMO, the semi-autonomous and all the safety features help to prevent accidents or even fatalities. In any case, I would appreciate the responses to this conundrum from all you folks on this forum. This baffles me. The awesome Driver Assistance Package and safety options on the new S Class is the major reason why I decided to sell my 2014 S550 and go for the new and greatly improved S450.
What I dislike (2014 W222)
It struggles to keep the car centered, the car will and does wander over the lane or will over compensate from center to left then after driver correction, center to right)
It cannot handle a curve unless it is very slight, many other cars can.
Park assist hits curb often and stops maneuver. The few times I've used it, it let me down some of those times.... Mercedes response ( The curbs in NY are not designed for the system ) Not my response, Mercedes Dealer....
EZ-Pass Toll Booths... Yes you must be in control at all times, but it was a very awakening experience to have the car slow down at the tool booth, then as the gate went up for the car ahead, Distronic+ says, lets go and ignore the toll gate..... Only happen once, close call, but that's how you learn sometimes.....
What I do like is
Active Cruse Control! Cant live without it!! Flawless, Almost...! One exception, it cannot spot stopped traffic way down the road. So, if you are driving on a 3 lane street, not highway or parkway, and enough distance builds up between you and the car way ahead of you, and the car ahead of you stops at the red light, you will REAREND them. If Distronic+ does not see it as a car, it acts like it is driving into a brick wall.... and it will NOT stop in time with emergency braking that it will apply within the last second...
The enhancements to the new 2018 are well worth every penny.... my 2 cents....
Distronic+ in Stop and Go traffic, Tap the stalk and the car resumes where it left off.... Flawless....
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ZWHK (12-05-2018)
04-05-2018, 12:15 AM
#3
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I'm 57. I only use it to impress friends for like 2 minutes. Then I turn it off and will probably NEVER use it. I would never trust it. Maybe you never saw this movie... 
I trust myself a lot more than ... "HAL 9000". I'm not saying that my MB may try to kill me with all it's autonomous driving stuff, but... I personally don't trust it.
http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0062622/
"Faces are the key element of a Kubrick film. Like classic movies, such as M and Touch of Evil, Kubrick focuses on the characters' faces to give the audience a psychological view-point. Even he uses extreme close-ups of HAL's glowing red "eye" to show the coldness and determination of the computerizd villain. I could go on, but in summation Kubrick is at the hieght of his style. 3) HAL 9000 is one of the most villainous characters in film history. I whole-heartedly agree with the late Gene Siskle's opinion of HAL 9000. Most of this film takes place in space. Through the use of silence and the darkness of space itself, a mood of isolation is created. Dave and his crewmen are isolated between earth and jupiter, with nowhere to escape. Combine this mood with the cold, calculated actions of HAL 9000 and you have the most fearful villain imaginable. I still, although having see this film several times, feel my chest tighten in a particular scene. "
I trust myself a lot more than ... "HAL 9000". I'm not saying that my MB may try to kill me with all it's autonomous driving stuff, but... I personally don't trust it.
http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0062622/
"Faces are the key element of a Kubrick film. Like classic movies, such as M and Touch of Evil, Kubrick focuses on the characters' faces to give the audience a psychological view-point. Even he uses extreme close-ups of HAL's glowing red "eye" to show the coldness and determination of the computerizd villain. I could go on, but in summation Kubrick is at the hieght of his style. 3) HAL 9000 is one of the most villainous characters in film history. I whole-heartedly agree with the late Gene Siskle's opinion of HAL 9000. Most of this film takes place in space. Through the use of silence and the darkness of space itself, a mood of isolation is created. Dave and his crewmen are isolated between earth and jupiter, with nowhere to escape. Combine this mood with the cold, calculated actions of HAL 9000 and you have the most fearful villain imaginable. I still, although having see this film several times, feel my chest tighten in a particular scene. "
04-05-2018, 12:34 AM
#4
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I feel that the Driver’s Assistance Package is “THE” very best option any car maker has EVER offered on any car. Pre-Safe and Active Blind Spot Assist should be made mandatory features on every new car sold in America. Distronic Plus is like having another set of eyes watching the road when one might get distracted, with the potential of mitigating a high speed collision, if not completely preventing one. As for the autonomous driving features, they are OK and sometimes helpful, but not nearly being allowed to perform to their capabilities.
As I get older, I know that my reflexes are not what they used to be. In addition, with even the least expensive new cars able to perform like legendary sports cars from the 1950’s, many young, inexperienced drivers are driving like idiots on steroids, weaving in and out of traffic at break-neck speeds. Add to this the absolutely idiotic “no fear” mentality of the lane splitting motorcyclists, cell phones, monster pick-ups jacked up to the moon and so many drivers under the influence of pot and who knows what else. All of these dangers and distractions make me value these high tech safety features more and more every day. I will no longer own a car without them.
As I get older, I know that my reflexes are not what they used to be. In addition, with even the least expensive new cars able to perform like legendary sports cars from the 1950’s, many young, inexperienced drivers are driving like idiots on steroids, weaving in and out of traffic at break-neck speeds. Add to this the absolutely idiotic “no fear” mentality of the lane splitting motorcyclists, cell phones, monster pick-ups jacked up to the moon and so many drivers under the influence of pot and who knows what else. All of these dangers and distractions make me value these high tech safety features more and more every day. I will no longer own a car without them.
04-05-2018, 08:36 AM
#5
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With current systems, you are supposed to be paying attention all the time, so you are actually not supposed to trust it. The points I'd make are:
1. If your driving is let's say 99.9999% safe, and Distronic Plus (on an interstate highway) is let's say only 90% safe, then using it while continuing to pay attention would add another "9" to overall safety, putting you at 99.99999%.
2. If you ever get into traffic, it is particularly nice to have.
1. If your driving is let's say 99.9999% safe, and Distronic Plus (on an interstate highway) is let's say only 90% safe, then using it while continuing to pay attention would add another "9" to overall safety, putting you at 99.99999%.
2. If you ever get into traffic, it is particularly nice to have.
04-05-2018, 09:34 AM
#6
Member
With current systems, you are supposed to be paying attention all the time, so you are actually not supposed to trust it. The points I'd make are:
1. If your driving is let's say 99.9999% safe, and Distronic Plus (on an interstate highway) is let's say only 90% safe, then using it while continuing to pay attention would add another "9" to overall safety, putting you at 99.99999%.
2. If you ever get into traffic, it is particularly nice to have.
1. If your driving is let's say 99.9999% safe, and Distronic Plus (on an interstate highway) is let's say only 90% safe, then using it while continuing to pay attention would add another "9" to overall safety, putting you at 99.99999%.
2. If you ever get into traffic, it is particularly nice to have.
We have a very tricky semi-rural intersection we have to go through every day. There are cars coming over a hill and it is hard to get a good view of them due to post boxes, tall weeds, and the occasional sign. On top of that there is another driveway just kitty-corner on the opposite side of the street. Your head is on a swivel and even then we've almost been nailed twice by cross traffic and once when the car across the intersection was pulling out. I was so focussed on the cross traffic that I never saw the car pull out. The vehicle detection systems are one extra layer of defense that I will appreciate, but it literally could be a fatal mistake to trust them alone.
04-05-2018, 12:24 PM
#7
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Thread Starter
With current systems, you are supposed to be paying attention all the time, so you are actually not supposed to trust it. The points I'd make are:
1. If your driving is let's say 99.9999% safe, and Distronic Plus (on an interstate highway) is let's say only 90% safe, then using it while continuing to pay attention would add another "9" to overall safety, putting you at 99.99999%.
2. If you ever get into traffic, it is particularly nice to have.
1. If your driving is let's say 99.9999% safe, and Distronic Plus (on an interstate highway) is let's say only 90% safe, then using it while continuing to pay attention would add another "9" to overall safety, putting you at 99.99999%.
2. If you ever get into traffic, it is particularly nice to have.
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04-05-2018, 12:43 PM
#8
Member
It's the reason I bought my S class! It really helps to know if you take your eyes off the road to check the nav screen the car is no going to drift out of the lane.
04-05-2018, 01:03 PM
#9
Member
A great implementation of the man/machine interface. No wrestling for control of the steering, speed if you want, tailgate no problem, steer into danger, accelerate into others and can be invisible to "uncar" people. MB did not design this for autonomous driving which some expect but more like a gentle assist. In our case I try to take advantage of the features, and the wife drives like she did in the 60's. She does not notice the gadgets/safety/hightech features but I feel they are watching over her (somewhat)
We have to imagine that future autonomous aids will allow you to select a level of assist not just on or off.
We have to imagine that future autonomous aids will allow you to select a level of assist not just on or off.
04-06-2018, 12:03 AM
#10
Member
My opinion (and only that): my 2016 was a bit disappointing in that regard. The little steering wheel see,s to me to be grey more than green. Also, I’d like the option to have steering/lance keep assist on all the time versus only with the distronic.
i’m on Vacation renting a low end sienna van -and I think the lane keep assist and steering control are equal or better than my S550,and don’t need cruise control enabled to be always on (over 32 mph). Even this stripped van has radar based cruise control -impressive.
like my car the steering won’t keep the car centered, it’s more like pinball.
i want the ability to “wool gather” but have an extra element of safety.
i’ve read The 2018 S550 is much improved. I truthfully found the driver’s assistance on the 2016 to be disappointing.
i’m on Vacation renting a low end sienna van -and I think the lane keep assist and steering control are equal or better than my S550,and don’t need cruise control enabled to be always on (over 32 mph). Even this stripped van has radar based cruise control -impressive.
like my car the steering won’t keep the car centered, it’s more like pinball.
i want the ability to “wool gather” but have an extra element of safety.
i’ve read The 2018 S550 is much improved. I truthfully found the driver’s assistance on the 2016 to be disappointing.
04-06-2018, 12:21 AM
#11
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These systems are a work in progress and getting better every year.
04-06-2018, 12:49 AM
#12
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2018 S560 and 2019 E450 Wagon.
Does the 2017 S550 have the change lane feature with the directional? I know the 2018 has that as my AMG does. My 2015 of course does not. I'm just wondering how much they improved the Distronic between 2015 and the 2017 models as I'm thinking of trading in my 2015 for a 2017 in a year or so. Cant consider a 2018 as the trunk is too small.
04-06-2018, 01:05 AM
#13
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Does the 2017 S550 have the change lane feature with the directional? I know the 2018 has that as my AMG does. My 2015 of course does not. I'm just wondering how much they improved the Distronic between 2015 and the 2017 models as I'm thinking of trading in my 2015 for a 2017 in a year or so. Cant consider a 2018 as the trunk is too small.
04-06-2018, 01:15 AM
#14
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Would argue one's choice of car and one's driving are two of best IQ tells on planet
One's choice of car and one's ability to drive safely/precisely in real-world (not an artificial track) are phenomenal daily tells on one's IQ/split-second decisionmaking....and ultimately natural selection....
Safety is both active and passive
Active is largely driver-inflicted: contextual awareness, following distances, judging other drivers' likely behaviors in emergent event, one's braking capabilities (tires/brakes vs road/weather conds), etc etc
Passive is largely one's judgment re: structural integrity of car in unavoidable collision (one's choice of car; can't change it in instant of a crash scenario)...head-on, rear-ended (fuel tank as potential bomb), etc etc
Have doubt abt competence of any mfr (incl MB, let alone lesser mfrs) vs many safety systems, incl airbag systems (potential bombs if poorly engineered; think Takata which MB used in many recent MBs incl SLs) and much of software (often written by code monkeys who can't drive themselves)
Systems like anti-lock brakes, stab ctrls, pre-tensing seatbelts, etc etc have advanced considerably over past 5-10yrs but mfrs like MB (let alone lesser mfrs) still have many flaws in basic safety elements like MCT gearbox, dubious roof/glass strength, etc with which mfrs struggle: a disabled car on side of fast, busy fwy is a poss death sentence for any driver forced into that box, as is a rolled-over SUV unable to dynamically solve/avoid an emergent situation vs nearby decelerating cars
IMO, AI is ultimately limited by natural stupidity of code monkeys who tend to be linear, one-dimensional thinkers: most of critical bets in life are qualitative, nonlinear judgments made w/limited data: driving is prob only scenario in most affluent guys' daily lives where split-sec judgments can make vast, irreversible differences in one's health/survival, unlike a PC/phone crashing and just rebooting or a few unhealthy meals....or even a bad/mistaken stock trade w/a large loss that can be earned back on later trades w/smarter bets (if one retains one's health/life unlike a major mistake in driving)
Ask (better yet, observe) what car a code monkey (of any wealth) chooses to drive daily....and, guess, can he safely drive on own if systems don't work?
Living on SF Peninsula I'm well aware of what laughable cars most wealthy code monkeys drive (and their driving behaviors in dense 70+MPH fwy traffic)....and/or what crappy SUVs w/no brakes or chassis w/rollover risk really wealthy code monkeys are driven in, with a low-IQ driver/bodyguard at wheel (they don't hand out those jobs to just anyone)
Would similarly argue 99+% of racecar drivers are prob inept drivers on public roads on any risk-adjusted basis, at any speed: real world (even at legal speeds) has vastly greater uncertainties/catastrophic risks (esp for a rich guy w/a lot more to lose in life) vs typical unsafe/less risk conscious/low IQ drivers on track and/or public rds, at any speed
Full disclosure: like the back-up driver assist systems of latest 65 in emergent event (have never faced such a scenario, so don't know if they really work) but view them as last-line of defense before passive safety: drive myself w/no audio/phone/navig/other distractions in my car: enjoy driving self and music of 65 engine/exhaust/gearbox blips: the poor man's private plane
And part of why I get rid of cars every <2yrs is, systems decay, whether airbag systems or various sensors, making them potentially one's enemy and a tail risk, in tail risk scenarios....and software does improve over time but mfrs don't (for various self-serving reasons) debug these vs already-sold cars, not unlike phones....obviously mfrs gotta force people to get latest/greatest...or just a more debugged mid-cycle version
One's choice of car and one's ability to drive safely/precisely in real-world (not an artificial track) are phenomenal daily tells on one's IQ/split-second decisionmaking....and ultimately natural selection....
Safety is both active and passive
Active is largely driver-inflicted: contextual awareness, following distances, judging other drivers' likely behaviors in emergent event, one's braking capabilities (tires/brakes vs road/weather conds), etc etc
Passive is largely one's judgment re: structural integrity of car in unavoidable collision (one's choice of car; can't change it in instant of a crash scenario)...head-on, rear-ended (fuel tank as potential bomb), etc etc
Have doubt abt competence of any mfr (incl MB, let alone lesser mfrs) vs many safety systems, incl airbag systems (potential bombs if poorly engineered; think Takata which MB used in many recent MBs incl SLs) and much of software (often written by code monkeys who can't drive themselves)
Systems like anti-lock brakes, stab ctrls, pre-tensing seatbelts, etc etc have advanced considerably over past 5-10yrs but mfrs like MB (let alone lesser mfrs) still have many flaws in basic safety elements like MCT gearbox, dubious roof/glass strength, etc with which mfrs struggle: a disabled car on side of fast, busy fwy is a poss death sentence for any driver forced into that box, as is a rolled-over SUV unable to dynamically solve/avoid an emergent situation vs nearby decelerating cars
IMO, AI is ultimately limited by natural stupidity of code monkeys who tend to be linear, one-dimensional thinkers: most of critical bets in life are qualitative, nonlinear judgments made w/limited data: driving is prob only scenario in most affluent guys' daily lives where split-sec judgments can make vast, irreversible differences in one's health/survival, unlike a PC/phone crashing and just rebooting or a few unhealthy meals....or even a bad/mistaken stock trade w/a large loss that can be earned back on later trades w/smarter bets (if one retains one's health/life unlike a major mistake in driving)
Ask (better yet, observe) what car a code monkey (of any wealth) chooses to drive daily....and, guess, can he safely drive on own if systems don't work?
Living on SF Peninsula I'm well aware of what laughable cars most wealthy code monkeys drive (and their driving behaviors in dense 70+MPH fwy traffic)....and/or what crappy SUVs w/no brakes or chassis w/rollover risk really wealthy code monkeys are driven in, with a low-IQ driver/bodyguard at wheel (they don't hand out those jobs to just anyone)
Would similarly argue 99+% of racecar drivers are prob inept drivers on public roads on any risk-adjusted basis, at any speed: real world (even at legal speeds) has vastly greater uncertainties/catastrophic risks (esp for a rich guy w/a lot more to lose in life) vs typical unsafe/less risk conscious/low IQ drivers on track and/or public rds, at any speed
Full disclosure: like the back-up driver assist systems of latest 65 in emergent event (have never faced such a scenario, so don't know if they really work) but view them as last-line of defense before passive safety: drive myself w/no audio/phone/navig/other distractions in my car: enjoy driving self and music of 65 engine/exhaust/gearbox blips: the poor man's private plane
And part of why I get rid of cars every <2yrs is, systems decay, whether airbag systems or various sensors, making them potentially one's enemy and a tail risk, in tail risk scenarios....and software does improve over time but mfrs don't (for various self-serving reasons) debug these vs already-sold cars, not unlike phones....obviously mfrs gotta force people to get latest/greatest...or just a more debugged mid-cycle version
04-06-2018, 07:08 AM
#15
Super Member
The answer to the question is often older people resisting change. I remember when seat belt use became law people complained about them not being safe, same for airbags, same for anti lock brakes. Crap farmers complained about rubber tires on tractors replacing steel wheels even after it became clear that they were better.
I am just as guilty as anyone. I resisted having a smartphone for a number of years till I finally got one. Now I realize how much it does for me saving time and such. Once again it is people resisting change but if there is one thing for certain change is ALWAYS going to happen and the older people that are most guilty of resisting change will be replaced by younger people,
I am just as guilty as anyone. I resisted having a smartphone for a number of years till I finally got one. Now I realize how much it does for me saving time and such. Once again it is people resisting change but if there is one thing for certain change is ALWAYS going to happen and the older people that are most guilty of resisting change will be replaced by younger people,
04-06-2018, 11:40 AM
#16
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Thread Starter
The answer to the question is often older people resisting change. I remember when seat belt use became law people complained about them not being safe, same for airbags, same for anti lock brakes. Crap farmers complained about rubber tires on tractors replacing steel wheels even after it became clear that they were better.
I am just as guilty as anyone. I resisted having a smartphone for a number of years till I finally got one. Now I realize how much it does for me saving time and such. Once again it is people resisting change but if there is one thing for certain change is ALWAYS going to happen and the older people that are most guilty of resisting change will be replaced by younger people,
I am just as guilty as anyone. I resisted having a smartphone for a number of years till I finally got one. Now I realize how much it does for me saving time and such. Once again it is people resisting change but if there is one thing for certain change is ALWAYS going to happen and the older people that are most guilty of resisting change will be replaced by younger people,
04-06-2018, 11:49 AM
#17
Member
I guess I must be the exception to the rule. I'm old and I love change, especially when it comes to technology. Just to give you an example, I own the iPhone X, the new HomePod, Apple TV with 4K, Apple Watch Series 3 with data, MacBook Pro. I'm behind on the iPad since I still have the iPod Air 2. I no longer use the iPad much. Yes, I love Apple products, but I also love high tech features on cars (especially the S Class). The more safety and semi autonomous features, the better.
i’d love To have a waiting autopilot for me - whether I glance away to change a radio station or want to show off. I THINK the Tesla has the best in this regard, bearing in mind it has killed folks. Help, yes please. Fully autonomous? Not yet.
again, I heard the 2018 is much improved. I ‘d like to see the features work without need for distronic to be on as well.
i’d also Love if smart enough to keep centered in lane, yet avoid potholes or tree limbs if safe.
algorithm would need to factor in if safe ever to cross lane or double yellow line. Not sure if regulations would allow.
tech vs. legal regulations.
when i considered a Tesla I was going to skip full autonomous, as I felt the regulations would take longer than a 3 year lease. That, and range anxiety.
04-07-2018, 07:24 AM
#18
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I am 32 years old and I love the drivers assistance package in my 2018 s. I love to drive but especially on highway trips it is way more relaxing having the car do some of the driving. Did a 9 hour ride a few weeks ago and wasn’t tired when we got there, that’s never happened for me before. Not having to focus the whole time was great.
04-07-2018, 08:13 AM
#19
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Thread Starter
I am 32 years old and I love the drivers assistance package in my 2018 s. I love to drive but especially on highway trips it is way more relaxing having the car do some of the driving. Did a 9 hour ride a few weeks ago and wasn’t tired when we got there, that’s never happened for me before. Not having to focus the whole time was great.
04-07-2018, 09:00 AM
#20
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Such systems must work %100 reliable under any conditions just like ABS ,ESP ,ETC ,DCC or whatsoever .Because just a misreading could cause a crash or rear ending which is untoward .My car has PDC (Park Distance Control ) and it's twice it's hit the plastic pipes during back up maneuver and when I leave the car to park itself it does nothing but slam on the brakes when backing up because it looks like it does detect the objects too late and applies panic braking .In this case it still needs improvement
04-07-2018, 03:31 PM
#21
MBWorld Fanatic!
Because it makes adding a laser jammer that much more difficult. (I'm not joking).
04-07-2018, 04:25 PM
#22
MBWorld Fanatic!
Thread Starter
Would argue one's choice of car and one's driving are two of best IQ tells on planet
One's choice of car and one's ability to drive safely/precisely in real-world (not an artificial track) are phenomenal daily tells on one's IQ/split-second decisionmaking....and ultimately natural selection....
Safety is both active and passive
Active is largely driver-inflicted: contextual awareness, following distances, judging other drivers' likely behaviors in emergent event, one's braking capabilities (tires/brakes vs road/weather conds), etc etc
Passive is largely one's judgment re: structural integrity of car in unavoidable collision (one's choice of car; can't change it in instant of a crash scenario)...head-on, rear-ended (fuel tank as potential bomb), etc etc
Have doubt abt competence of any mfr (incl MB, let alone lesser mfrs) vs many safety systems, incl airbag systems (potential bombs if poorly engineered; think Takata which MB used in many recent MBs incl SLs) and much of software (often written by code monkeys who can't drive themselves)
Systems like anti-lock brakes, stab ctrls, pre-tensing seatbelts, etc etc have advanced considerably over past 5-10yrs but mfrs like MB (let alone lesser mfrs) still have many flaws in basic safety elements like MCT gearbox, dubious roof/glass strength, etc with which mfrs struggle: a disabled car on side of fast, busy fwy is a poss death sentence for any driver forced into that box, as is a rolled-over SUV unable to dynamically solve/avoid an emergent situation vs nearby decelerating cars
IMO, AI is ultimately limited by natural stupidity of code monkeys who tend to be linear, one-dimensional thinkers: most of critical bets in life are qualitative, nonlinear judgments made w/limited data: driving is prob only scenario in most affluent guys' daily lives where split-sec judgments can make vast, irreversible differences in one's health/survival, unlike a PC/phone crashing and just rebooting or a few unhealthy meals....or even a bad/mistaken stock trade w/a large loss that can be earned back on later trades w/smarter bets (if one retains one's health/life unlike a major mistake in driving)
Ask (better yet, observe) what car a code monkey (of any wealth) chooses to drive daily....and, guess, can he safely drive on own if systems don't work?
Living on SF Peninsula I'm well aware of what laughable cars most wealthy code monkeys drive (and their driving behaviors in dense 70+MPH fwy traffic)....and/or what crappy SUVs w/no brakes or chassis w/rollover risk really wealthy code monkeys are driven in, with a low-IQ driver/bodyguard at wheel (they don't hand out those jobs to just anyone)
Would similarly argue 99+% of racecar drivers are prob inept drivers on public roads on any risk-adjusted basis, at any speed: real world (even at legal speeds) has vastly greater uncertainties/catastrophic risks (esp for a rich guy w/a lot more to lose in life) vs typical unsafe/less risk conscious/low IQ drivers on track and/or public rds, at any speed
Full disclosure: like the back-up driver assist systems of latest 65 in emergent event (have never faced such a scenario, so don't know if they really work) but view them as last-line of defense before passive safety: drive myself w/no audio/phone/navig/other distractions in my car: enjoy driving self and music of 65 engine/exhaust/gearbox blips: the poor man's private plane
And part of why I get rid of cars every <2yrs is, systems decay, whether airbag systems or various sensors, making them potentially one's enemy and a tail risk, in tail risk scenarios....and software does improve over time but mfrs don't (for various self-serving reasons) debug these vs already-sold cars, not unlike phones....obviously mfrs gotta force people to get latest/greatest...or just a more debugged mid-cycle version
One's choice of car and one's ability to drive safely/precisely in real-world (not an artificial track) are phenomenal daily tells on one's IQ/split-second decisionmaking....and ultimately natural selection....
Safety is both active and passive
Active is largely driver-inflicted: contextual awareness, following distances, judging other drivers' likely behaviors in emergent event, one's braking capabilities (tires/brakes vs road/weather conds), etc etc
Passive is largely one's judgment re: structural integrity of car in unavoidable collision (one's choice of car; can't change it in instant of a crash scenario)...head-on, rear-ended (fuel tank as potential bomb), etc etc
Have doubt abt competence of any mfr (incl MB, let alone lesser mfrs) vs many safety systems, incl airbag systems (potential bombs if poorly engineered; think Takata which MB used in many recent MBs incl SLs) and much of software (often written by code monkeys who can't drive themselves)
Systems like anti-lock brakes, stab ctrls, pre-tensing seatbelts, etc etc have advanced considerably over past 5-10yrs but mfrs like MB (let alone lesser mfrs) still have many flaws in basic safety elements like MCT gearbox, dubious roof/glass strength, etc with which mfrs struggle: a disabled car on side of fast, busy fwy is a poss death sentence for any driver forced into that box, as is a rolled-over SUV unable to dynamically solve/avoid an emergent situation vs nearby decelerating cars
IMO, AI is ultimately limited by natural stupidity of code monkeys who tend to be linear, one-dimensional thinkers: most of critical bets in life are qualitative, nonlinear judgments made w/limited data: driving is prob only scenario in most affluent guys' daily lives where split-sec judgments can make vast, irreversible differences in one's health/survival, unlike a PC/phone crashing and just rebooting or a few unhealthy meals....or even a bad/mistaken stock trade w/a large loss that can be earned back on later trades w/smarter bets (if one retains one's health/life unlike a major mistake in driving)
Ask (better yet, observe) what car a code monkey (of any wealth) chooses to drive daily....and, guess, can he safely drive on own if systems don't work?
Living on SF Peninsula I'm well aware of what laughable cars most wealthy code monkeys drive (and their driving behaviors in dense 70+MPH fwy traffic)....and/or what crappy SUVs w/no brakes or chassis w/rollover risk really wealthy code monkeys are driven in, with a low-IQ driver/bodyguard at wheel (they don't hand out those jobs to just anyone)
Would similarly argue 99+% of racecar drivers are prob inept drivers on public roads on any risk-adjusted basis, at any speed: real world (even at legal speeds) has vastly greater uncertainties/catastrophic risks (esp for a rich guy w/a lot more to lose in life) vs typical unsafe/less risk conscious/low IQ drivers on track and/or public rds, at any speed
Full disclosure: like the back-up driver assist systems of latest 65 in emergent event (have never faced such a scenario, so don't know if they really work) but view them as last-line of defense before passive safety: drive myself w/no audio/phone/navig/other distractions in my car: enjoy driving self and music of 65 engine/exhaust/gearbox blips: the poor man's private plane
And part of why I get rid of cars every <2yrs is, systems decay, whether airbag systems or various sensors, making them potentially one's enemy and a tail risk, in tail risk scenarios....and software does improve over time but mfrs don't (for various self-serving reasons) debug these vs already-sold cars, not unlike phones....obviously mfrs gotta force people to get latest/greatest...or just a more debugged mid-cycle version
04-08-2018, 01:29 PM
#23
Super Moderator
Join Date: May 2002
Location: Land of 10,000 lakes
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AMG GTC Roadster, E63s Ed.1, M8 Comp. Coupe
Would argue one's choice of car and one's driving are two of best IQ tells on planet
One's choice of car and one's ability to drive safely/precisely in real-world (not an artificial track) are phenomenal daily tells on one's IQ/split-second decisionmaking....and ultimately natural selection....
Safety is both active and passive
Active is largely driver-inflicted: contextual awareness, following distances, judging other drivers' likely behaviors in emergent event, one's braking capabilities (tires/brakes vs road/weather conds), etc etc
Passive is largely one's judgment re: structural integrity of car in unavoidable collision (one's choice of car; can't change it in instant of a crash scenario)...head-on, rear-ended (fuel tank as potential bomb), etc etc
Have doubt abt competence of any mfr (incl MB, let alone lesser mfrs) vs many safety systems, incl airbag systems (potential bombs if poorly engineered; think Takata which MB used in many recent MBs incl SLs) and much of software (often written by code monkeys who can't drive themselves)
Systems like anti-lock brakes, stab ctrls, pre-tensing seatbelts, etc etc have advanced considerably over past 5-10yrs but mfrs like MB (let alone lesser mfrs) still have many flaws in basic safety elements like MCT gearbox, dubious roof/glass strength, etc with which mfrs struggle: a disabled car on side of fast, busy fwy is a poss death sentence for any driver forced into that box, as is a rolled-over SUV unable to dynamically solve/avoid an emergent situation vs nearby decelerating cars
IMO, AI is ultimately limited by natural stupidity of code monkeys who tend to be linear, one-dimensional thinkers: most of critical bets in life are qualitative, nonlinear judgments made w/limited data: driving is prob only scenario in most affluent guys' daily lives where split-sec judgments can make vast, irreversible differences in one's health/survival, unlike a PC/phone crashing and just rebooting or a few unhealthy meals....or even a bad/mistaken stock trade w/a large loss that can be earned back on later trades w/smarter bets (if one retains one's health/life unlike a major mistake in driving)
Ask (better yet, observe) what car a code monkey (of any wealth) chooses to drive daily....and, guess, can he safely drive on own if systems don't work?
Living on SF Peninsula I'm well aware of what laughable cars most wealthy code monkeys drive (and their driving behaviors in dense 70+MPH fwy traffic)....and/or what crappy SUVs w/no brakes or chassis w/rollover risk really wealthy code monkeys are driven in, with a low-IQ driver/bodyguard at wheel (they don't hand out those jobs to just anyone)
Would similarly argue 99+% of racecar drivers are prob inept drivers on public roads on any risk-adjusted basis, at any speed: real world (even at legal speeds) has vastly greater uncertainties/catastrophic risks (esp for a rich guy w/a lot more to lose in life) vs typical unsafe/less risk conscious/low IQ drivers on track and/or public rds, at any speed
Full disclosure: like the back-up driver assist systems of latest 65 in emergent event (have never faced such a scenario, so don't know if they really work) but view them as last-line of defense before passive safety: drive myself w/no audio/phone/navig/other distractions in my car: enjoy driving self and music of 65 engine/exhaust/gearbox blips: the poor man's private plane
And part of why I get rid of cars every <2yrs is, systems decay, whether airbag systems or various sensors, making them potentially one's enemy and a tail risk, in tail risk scenarios....and software does improve over time but mfrs don't (for various self-serving reasons) debug these vs already-sold cars, not unlike phones....obviously mfrs gotta force people to get latest/greatest...or just a more debugged mid-cycle version
One's choice of car and one's ability to drive safely/precisely in real-world (not an artificial track) are phenomenal daily tells on one's IQ/split-second decisionmaking....and ultimately natural selection....
Safety is both active and passive
Active is largely driver-inflicted: contextual awareness, following distances, judging other drivers' likely behaviors in emergent event, one's braking capabilities (tires/brakes vs road/weather conds), etc etc
Passive is largely one's judgment re: structural integrity of car in unavoidable collision (one's choice of car; can't change it in instant of a crash scenario)...head-on, rear-ended (fuel tank as potential bomb), etc etc
Have doubt abt competence of any mfr (incl MB, let alone lesser mfrs) vs many safety systems, incl airbag systems (potential bombs if poorly engineered; think Takata which MB used in many recent MBs incl SLs) and much of software (often written by code monkeys who can't drive themselves)
Systems like anti-lock brakes, stab ctrls, pre-tensing seatbelts, etc etc have advanced considerably over past 5-10yrs but mfrs like MB (let alone lesser mfrs) still have many flaws in basic safety elements like MCT gearbox, dubious roof/glass strength, etc with which mfrs struggle: a disabled car on side of fast, busy fwy is a poss death sentence for any driver forced into that box, as is a rolled-over SUV unable to dynamically solve/avoid an emergent situation vs nearby decelerating cars
IMO, AI is ultimately limited by natural stupidity of code monkeys who tend to be linear, one-dimensional thinkers: most of critical bets in life are qualitative, nonlinear judgments made w/limited data: driving is prob only scenario in most affluent guys' daily lives where split-sec judgments can make vast, irreversible differences in one's health/survival, unlike a PC/phone crashing and just rebooting or a few unhealthy meals....or even a bad/mistaken stock trade w/a large loss that can be earned back on later trades w/smarter bets (if one retains one's health/life unlike a major mistake in driving)
Ask (better yet, observe) what car a code monkey (of any wealth) chooses to drive daily....and, guess, can he safely drive on own if systems don't work?
Living on SF Peninsula I'm well aware of what laughable cars most wealthy code monkeys drive (and their driving behaviors in dense 70+MPH fwy traffic)....and/or what crappy SUVs w/no brakes or chassis w/rollover risk really wealthy code monkeys are driven in, with a low-IQ driver/bodyguard at wheel (they don't hand out those jobs to just anyone)
Would similarly argue 99+% of racecar drivers are prob inept drivers on public roads on any risk-adjusted basis, at any speed: real world (even at legal speeds) has vastly greater uncertainties/catastrophic risks (esp for a rich guy w/a lot more to lose in life) vs typical unsafe/less risk conscious/low IQ drivers on track and/or public rds, at any speed
Full disclosure: like the back-up driver assist systems of latest 65 in emergent event (have never faced such a scenario, so don't know if they really work) but view them as last-line of defense before passive safety: drive myself w/no audio/phone/navig/other distractions in my car: enjoy driving self and music of 65 engine/exhaust/gearbox blips: the poor man's private plane
And part of why I get rid of cars every <2yrs is, systems decay, whether airbag systems or various sensors, making them potentially one's enemy and a tail risk, in tail risk scenarios....and software does improve over time but mfrs don't (for various self-serving reasons) debug these vs already-sold cars, not unlike phones....obviously mfrs gotta force people to get latest/greatest...or just a more debugged mid-cycle version
04-08-2018, 08:28 PM
#24
MBWorld Fanatic!
One other item not to do with Distronic+.... Activated D+ in slow moving traffic. car in front decided to move into the right lane, my car wanted to follow, I corrected the steering to stay in lane, and the car took off to the set speed of 20MPH, but yet again the car 3 lengths in front of me was stopped..... It would have been a REC... You MUST at all times be aware of how the system will function in different scenarios. Hopefully I can save someone from the heart attack by posting....
12-05-2018, 04:36 PM
#25
I like the semi-autonomous package and understand it is not perfect but here is one reason to distrust the system:
We own a 2018 E300 and are enjoying the new semi-autonomous features. Unfortunately, we recently had an experience that could have had serious consequences: We were driving around the neighborhood at 30 mph - not on cruise control - when the car abruptly beeped, braked, and tightened both the driver’s and the passenger’s seat belts in what can only be described as panic mode. There was no traffic on the street, no pedestrians in sight and nothing that could have indicated an imminent collision of any kind. Had this happened when driving on a highway, at higher speed and heavy traffic, we would have been rear-ended with possible serious consequences. Our Mercedes Benz Service office didn’t have any explanation for this occurrence and indicated that Mercedes Benz doesn’t monitor the performance of these cars, so they have no way to know what happened and no way to fix it. Have you or anyone else have or heard of such malfunction of the MB semi-autonomous system?
We own a 2018 E300 and are enjoying the new semi-autonomous features. Unfortunately, we recently had an experience that could have had serious consequences: We were driving around the neighborhood at 30 mph - not on cruise control - when the car abruptly beeped, braked, and tightened both the driver’s and the passenger’s seat belts in what can only be described as panic mode. There was no traffic on the street, no pedestrians in sight and nothing that could have indicated an imminent collision of any kind. Had this happened when driving on a highway, at higher speed and heavy traffic, we would have been rear-ended with possible serious consequences. Our Mercedes Benz Service office didn’t have any explanation for this occurrence and indicated that Mercedes Benz doesn’t monitor the performance of these cars, so they have no way to know what happened and no way to fix it. Have you or anyone else have or heard of such malfunction of the MB semi-autonomous system?
