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2020 S560 Sedan, 2019 SL450, 2019 E450 Luxury Trim Wagon, '24 BMW I7 on order...
[QUOTE=77Tony;7841651]I've always found low mileage cars that are close to the spec I'd like if ordered new. Purchased a (MY2014) 50th Anniversary at a year old...list $143,xxx and purchased for $110,000. Drove it for 1.5 years and sold it for $108,000. Next up was a MY15 991.1 GTS Cab..list $ 144,xxx, and again was approx. 1 year old and snagged it for $ 112,000. Sold it 2 years later for $100k. I feel a big part of the reason these 991.1's held there value so well was that they were the last of the NA cars. IIRC most Carrera's went turbo in 2016 or 2017 and many still wanted that NA exhaust sound. A similar scenario may be happening with the release of the W223. Seems many on this forum including myself aren’t crazy over the next “S” in line. We are really enjoying our recent “S” purchase and plan on being here for awhile. T/QUOTE]
CPO or slightly/gently used cars can certainly be bargains and I would never criticize anyone from going that way. However, there is something to be said for ordering a brand new car and getting it exactly as you requested. I know there is a great cost associated with buying new cars, but I’m willing to pay that price, because I enjoy the experience so much. And, cars are important to me and things that I enjoy, so I want them the way I want them and I’m not willing to compromise. I want the colors I want, the options I want and that’s that. I wear an old Seiko watch, I wear Eddie Bauer clothes and take few lavish vacations.........but I like brand new cars!
I've always found low mileage cars that are close to the spec I'd like if ordered new. Purchased a (MY2014) 50th Anniversary at a year old...list $143,xxx and purchased for $110,000. Drove it for 1.5 years and sold it for $108,000. Next up was a MY15 991.1 GTS Cab..list $ 144,xxx, and again was approx. 1 year old and snagged it for $ 112,000. Sold it 2 years later for $100k. I feel a big part of the reason these 991.1's held there value so well was that they were the last of the NA cars. IIRC most Carrera's went turbo in 2016 or 2017 and many still wanted that NA exhaust sound. A similar scenario may be happening with the release of the W223. Seems many on this forum including myself aren’t crazy over the next “S” in line. We are really enjoying our recent “S” purchase and plan on being here for awhile. T/QUOTE]
CPO or slightly/gently used cars can certainly be bargains and I would never criticize anyone from going that way. However, there is something to be said for ordering a brand new car and getting it exactly as you requested. I know there is a great cost associated with buying new cars, but I’m willing to pay that price, because I enjoy the experience so much. And, cars are important to me and things that I enjoy, so I want them the way I want them and I’m not willing to compromise. I want the colors I want, the options I want and that’s that. I wear an old Seiko watch, I wear Eddie Bauer clothes and take few lavish vacations.........but I like brand new cars!
Hmmmm.........I had you pegged as a Brooks Brothers type of guy
I've always found low mileage cars that are close to the spec I'd like if ordered new. Purchased a (MY2014) 50th Anniversary at a year old...list $143,xxx and purchased for $110,000. Drove it for 1.5 years and sold it for $108,000. Next up was a MY15 991.1 GTS Cab..list $ 144,xxx, and again was approx. 1 year old and snagged it for $ 112,000. Sold it 2 years later for $100k. I feel a big part of the reason these 991.1's held there value so well was that they were the last of the NA cars. IIRC most Carrera's went turbo in 2016 or 2017 and many still wanted that NA exhaust sound. A similar scenario may be happening with the release of the W223. Seems many on this forum including myself aren’t crazy over the next “S” in line. We are really enjoying our recent “S” purchase and plan on being here for awhile. T/QUOTE]
CPO or slightly/gently used cars can certainly be bargains and I would never criticize anyone from going that way. However, there is something to be said for ordering a brand new car and getting it exactly as you requested. I know there is a great cost associated with buying new cars, but I’m willing to pay that price, because I enjoy the experience so much. And, cars are important to me and things that I enjoy, so I want them the way I want them and I’m not willing to compromise. I want the colors I want, the options I want and that’s that. I wear an old Seiko watch, I wear Eddie Bauer clothes and take few lavish vacations.........but I like brand new cars!
Agree 100%.
Life is short, way shorter then all of us think or expect it to be.
Experience of ordering and buying a brand new car, exactly the way you want, with no compromise of taking somebody else's choice is very special and satisfying.
There is something very appealing about getting a "virgin" car, made to your wishes, where no one was farting, eating, picking buggers and smearing them under the seat or getting a BJ from a hooker.
There is a reason why a lot of people decide to get a new, lesser car instead of more luxurious, faster and originally much more expensive car for the same money.
Then there is the issue of warranty, service loaners, etc.
2020 S560 Sedan, 2019 SL450, 2019 E450 Luxury Trim Wagon, '24 BMW I7 on order...
[QUOTE=hyperion667;7841801]
Originally Posted by Streamliner
Hmmmm.........I had you pegged as a Brooks Brothers type of guy
Man, this is the COAST of South Orange County. Here, “Black Tie Optional” means that you wear PRESSED shorts with your Tommy Bahama shirt and Top Siders instead of flip flops! Life’s a beach!
I recently took delivery of a new 2019 SL450 that I ordered. It is my 6th new SL. Just before placing the order, I vacillated over a new Carrera S Cabriolet instead, which would have been my 3rd new 911. I loved the color options, the interiors, the availability of a stick shift, the option of carbon ceramic brakes, and the ability to configure the car in so many ways. My Carrera S Cab would have been around $175K and I was unable to find a dealer willing to discount the car more than about 6%, which I thought was just nuts, especially since it would have still been the outgoing 2019. So, at the end of the day, I could not resist the SL with its relatively inexpensive options, superior comfort and the ability to obtain a much bigger discount. Now that I have this amazing new SL, I know I made the right choice for me, as it is SO comfortable, but I must hand it to Porsche: They have managed to keep a more “exclusive” aura about their cars than MB has and in some ways, have made their cars into “fashion accessories” for the rich. They drive nicely, too! The profits in Stuttgart must be out of this world!
That's a nice shot and a good background You must be a designer
LOL You know me how long?
And - from the early days when I couldn't keep myself out of MBWORLD suspension. (hence the new name since i won't apologize to the loser mod who got the mean side of me)
Thanks for the compliment! I love the car! The building behind it is my fathers office building - he and mom had the contractors make it out of blue stucco. (They did not do any drugs beforehand)
Truth that... I actually looked at a 992 C4S as a replacement for my S63. Optioned with all the stuff I wanted it was like $175k
I'll be the first to admit I'm a sucker for options. Usually MSRP + 20% gets me a very nicely equipped car, whether it's a Mercedes or McLaren. Porsche was MSRP + 50% !
Honestly its a total hit job, a lubeless rape.
Most of the options should be standard. I mean really - $110k doesnt have a god damn sunroof? My friends Kia does - and they didn't charge for that.
That’s operating profit per car, compared to about $5,000 for Daimler and BMW. How do they do it?
IMO, I would imagine that it starts at the top, and that Porsche USA has pretty much told their dealers that they don’t want needless discounting and won’t stand for it. Unlike MB, BMW, Audi & others, they don’t want “a Porsche in every garage,” they want to keep the line exclusive and they seem to be doing a good job of it. If I were a car dealer, I would much prefer to sell fewer cars at a higher profit than many more at a tiny profit. Porsche has really hit a sweet spot over the past decade or so. Everyone wants one, they are truly great, very well made vehicles and they are in that price range where they can still be thought of as “obtainable” by many successful folks, unlike brands like Ferrari, Rolls-Royce, etc.
IMO, I would imagine that it starts at the top, and that Porsche USA has pretty much told their dealers that they don’t want needless discounting and won’t stand for it. Unlike MB, BMW, Audi & others, they don’t want “a Porsche in every garage,” they want to keep the line exclusive and they seem to be doing a good job of it. If I were a car dealer, I would much prefer to sell fewer cars at a higher profit than many more at a tiny profit. Porsche has really hit a sweet spot over the past decade or so. Everyone wants one, they are truly great, very well made vehicles and they are in that price range where they can still be thought of as “obtainable” by many successful folks, unlike brands like Ferrari, Rolls-Royce, etc.
Absolutely - though I do think they should give a loyalty discount for repeat buyers/leasers.
I can tell you as a fact that the majority of S Class owners, at least here in the UK, would never look at that as an alternative. Its missing features I had in my 20 year old CL600. I do understand the appeal to some though, its starting to become typical for the people who move out of S Class' and the likes to Lexus' and Hyundais.
The G90 design team needs to be fired. The flagship car should look conservative and stately. I would definitely consider the 2020 G90 had they not tinkered with an exterior design clearly won't age well. People who don't cross-shop the S class with the Genesis care about brand image. The two cars are in the same class, and the G90 is closer to S class than to LS. And priced less than a loaded E class, the value proposition is hard to beat. I don't know what kind of features are missing in the G90 that was present in a 20 year old Mercedes. The G90 is loaded with almost every creature comfort and safety feature a modern luxury car should have. In the US, Genesis sales have been abysmal as 2019 has been a transition year to dedicated Genesis dealerships (no longer selling out of Hyundai) and there are very few contracted dealers that are up and running.
The big downside of the G90 is the suspension quality which will improve over time. The engines are reliable and smooth and the interior is of very high quality (but not quite at S class level). Of course, if you're looking for a 600HP AMG level car, Genesis can't provide what you want.
Porsche has a great business model and has cultivated a loyal following of enthusiasts. A Porsche depreciates much more slowly than BMW or Mercedes. Resale pricing is excellent. It's truly the epitome of a great sports car brand. It would be great if MB can build an AMG car that handles like a 911, but I don't think that will come up any time in the near future. The AMG GT still falls short. Also, it's my impression that the majority of 911's aren't being sold as leases. This is unlike the S class which predominantly goes off the lot as a lease. Thus, 3 to 4 year old used cars have to price themselves in the CPO/used market among the flood of easily available depreciated vehicles.
IMO, I would imagine that it starts at the top, and that Porsche USA has pretty much told their dealers that they don’t want needless discounting and won’t stand for it. Unlike MB, BMW, Audi & others, they don’t want “a Porsche in every garage,” they want to keep the line exclusive and they seem to be doing a good job of it. If I were a car dealer, I would much prefer to sell fewer cars at a higher profit than many more at a tiny profit. Porsche has really hit a sweet spot over the past decade or so. Everyone wants one, they are truly great, very well made vehicles and they are in that price range where they can still be thought of as “obtainable” by many successful folks, unlike brands like Ferrari, Rolls-Royce, etc.
I'd also add that customer service at Porsche is WAY BEYOND what I went through/experienced at MB......again, my cars were used, CPO cars. And the service and BRAND new loaners were second to no one!
IMO, I would imagine that it starts at the top, and that Porsche USA has pretty much told their dealers that they don’t want needless discounting and won’t stand for it. Unlike MB, BMW, Audi & others, they don’t want “a Porsche in every garage,” they want to keep the line exclusive and they seem to be doing a good job of it. If I were a car dealer, I would much prefer to sell fewer cars at a higher profit than many more at a tiny profit. Porsche has really hit a sweet spot over the past decade or so. Everyone wants one, they are truly great, very well made vehicles and they are in that price range where they can still be thought of as “obtainable” by many successful folks, unlike brands like Ferrari, Rolls-Royce, etc.
I used to work at MB dealer, from sales to F&I and finally a GM (late 80s), still know a lot of guys who run their own dealerships by now.
Trust me, they don't make money on new cars they sell (Toyota through MB, Bentley and Rolls), they want to sell as many as they can though, simply to create more customers for their service departments, warranty work, regular maintenance and repairs is where they make income.
The only dealer I know who sells a few cars but always at list is a Ferrari dealer.
He still makes more from service then the sales.
"CPO or slightly/gently used cars can certainly be bargains and I would never criticize anyone from going that way. However, there is something to be said for ordering a brand new car and getting it exactly as you requested. I know there is a great cost associated with buying new cars, but I’m willing to pay that price, because I enjoy the experience so much. And, cars are important to me and things that I enjoy, so I want them the way I want them and I’m not willing to compromise. I want the colors I want, the options I want and that’s that. I wear an old Seiko watch, I wear Eddie Bauer clothes and take few lavish vacations.........but I like brand new cars! "
Agree^^...ordering a new car spec'd to your liking is very rewarding and have only done this once. Occasionally think (Ok dream!) of ordering a new Porsche GT3 Touring (w/euro delivery) but thats not going to happen now that I'm in "thin the herd" mode....but...a long term 928 rest-mod project I've designed and have many hours into help building is happening. It's in N. Fl now having an Infinity Box wiring system installed, (wiring is a mystery to me) then it's onto to KY for new "paint. Just finished building a display garage where the 928 will reside hopefully by years end. The MY15 S550 just purchased does click all of the boxes though (Ok..it's missing HUD that someone pointed out !) and very happy with our first "S" Class. T
I used to work at MB dealer, from sales to F&I and finally a GM (late 80s), still know a lot of guys who run their own dealerships by now.
Trust me, they don't make money on new cars they sell (Toyota through MB, Bentley and Rolls), they want to sell as many as they can though, simply to create more customers for their service departments, warranty work, regular maintenance and repairs is where they make income.
The only dealer I know who sells a few cars but always at list is a Ferrari dealer.
He still makes more from service then the sales.
Ferrari has the highest profit margin of any car manufacturer. They make an average of $80k per car. Bentley on the other hand looses over $20k per car.
Ferrari has the highest profit margin of any car manufacturer. They make an average of $80k per car. Bentley on the other hand looses over $20k per car.
Not sure how the math extends to the dealer...
My response was to Streamliner regarding dealers selling more cars at small profit vs few at higher profit.
nothing at all about manufacturer profit or lack of it
Porsche Taycan, Range Rover AB, Range Rover SVR, S Class, Mclaren 570s, Urus Hybrid (soon), M3, RS6
Originally Posted by bkdc
The G90 design team needs to be fired. The flagship car should look conservative and stately. I would definitely consider the 2020 G90 had they not tinkered with an exterior design clearly won't age well. People who don't cross-shop the S class with the Genesis care about brand image. The two cars are in the same class, and the G90 is closer to S class than to LS. And priced less than a loaded E class, the value proposition is hard to beat. I don't know what kind of features are missing in the G90 that was present in a 20 year old Mercedes. The G90 is loaded with almost every creature comfort and safety feature a modern luxury car should have. In the US, Genesis sales have been abysmal as 2019 has been a transition year to dedicated Genesis dealerships (no longer selling out of Hyundai) and there are very few contracted dealers that are up and running.
The big downside of the G90 is the suspension quality which will improve over time. The engines are reliable and smooth and the interior is of very high quality (but not quite at S class level). Of course, if you're looking for a 600HP AMG level car, Genesis can't provide what you want.
.
Sorry, was and am being quite pompous. I was speaking about massaging seats and sunroof, two options which I've had on every car for years, but probably don't mean as much to others. Typically, it is about brand image and I don't understand whats wrong with that as a reason seeing how its part of the experience, but this car specifically doesn't appeal to me inside or out. I hate the design, interior and exterior, it is good value for what it is but I would rather have an E220/50. Bit off topic but I LOVE the LS front, the rest of the car isn't the best but the hotels in Dubai use them and S Class' and they're nice.
08-30-2019, 12:21 AM
The profits in Stuttgart must be out of this world!
!) and very happy with our first "S" Class. T
