W223 full reveal (Ugly?)
05-17-2020, 09:46 AM
#52
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A 60-degree V6 is inherently balanced. This is the current M276 gasoline engine offered in the SL and other vehicles, although on its way out.
A 90-degree V6 is inherently unbalanced, and requires a balance shaft and potentially other actions such as switchable hydraulic engine mounts. This is the older model M272 which has been phased out.
Agree with Kalotek, some posts will show up on this site in a couple of years saying the W223 is the best vehicle M-B has ever made.
A 90-degree V6 is inherently unbalanced, and requires a balance shaft and potentially other actions such as switchable hydraulic engine mounts. This is the older model M272 which has been phased out.
Agree with Kalotek, some posts will show up on this site in a couple of years saying the W223 is the best vehicle M-B has ever made.
05-17-2020, 12:43 PM
#53
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A 60-degree V6 is inherently balanced. This is the current M276 gasoline engine offered in the SL and other vehicles, although on its way out.
A 90-degree V6 is inherently unbalanced, and requires a balance shaft and potentially other actions such as switchable hydraulic engine mounts. This is the older model M272 which has been phased out.
Agree with Kalotek, some posts will show up on this site in a couple of years saying the W223 is the best vehicle M-B has ever made.
A 90-degree V6 is inherently unbalanced, and requires a balance shaft and potentially other actions such as switchable hydraulic engine mounts. This is the older model M272 which has been phased out.
Agree with Kalotek, some posts will show up on this site in a couple of years saying the W223 is the best vehicle M-B has ever made.
"All V6 engines— regardless of the V-angle between the cylinder banks— are subject to a primary imbalance caused by each bank consisting of an inline-three engine, due to the odd number of cylinders in each bank. Straight-six engines and flat-six engines do not experience this imbalance. To reduce the vibrations caused by this imbalance, some V6 engines use counterweights on the crankshaft and/or a counter-rotating balance shaft."
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/V6_engine
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chassis (05-17-2020)
05-17-2020, 03:14 PM
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While 60 degrees is optimal for a V6, a 60 degree V6 is not inherently balanced
"All V6 engines— regardless of the V-angle between the cylinder banks— are subject to a primary imbalance caused by each bank consisting of an inline-three engine, due to the odd number of cylinders in each bank. Straight-six engines and flat-six engines do not experience this imbalance. To reduce the vibrations caused by this imbalance, some V6 engines use counterweights on the crankshaft and/or a counter-rotating balance shaft."
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/V6_engine
"All V6 engines— regardless of the V-angle between the cylinder banks— are subject to a primary imbalance caused by each bank consisting of an inline-three engine, due to the odd number of cylinders in each bank. Straight-six engines and flat-six engines do not experience this imbalance. To reduce the vibrations caused by this imbalance, some V6 engines use counterweights on the crankshaft and/or a counter-rotating balance shaft."
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/V6_engine
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MBNUT1 (05-17-2020)
05-17-2020, 05:49 PM
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No more MB:(
Originally Posted by steinjr
Wonder if Mercedes involved customer panels and accepts their feedback about new model designs. Not a fan of the S Class.
05-17-2020, 06:07 PM
#58
The trend of downwards tail lights applied to the new s.
The whole line now has it, from cla, god to the s. Ugliest trend since the fish eyed bumpers of the amg models.
The whole line now has it, from cla, god to the s. Ugliest trend since the fish eyed bumpers of the amg models.
05-17-2020, 08:12 PM
#59
Super Member
I also think the S vehicles shouldn't look so much like larger versions of their lesser versions. So many times when driving my S coupe I would see what I thought was another off in the distance only to pull up behind and see is was a c class coupe. Back in the day S's looked like S's and E's (when they came out) looked like E's...
05-17-2020, 09:26 PM
#60
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There are pros and cons. The center of gravity of the engine in an I-6 is pulled forward slightly but the big headache is reaching cylinders 5 and 6 for spark plug replacement, etc as it can be very tight against the firewall. A V6 can be placed a little farther back and still offers more room and access for service. The I-6 is balanced, and a V6 is not. A V8 is also almost perfectly balanced and is my personal choice for any ICE powdered automobile.
. V8 baby.
05-17-2020, 09:54 PM
#61
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The next example was with our 2017 Audi Q7's 3.0, it was also butter smooth with a supercharged V6, and the new 3.0 turbo 2020 we ordered which is a partial hybrid setup, was displaying a rough idle as were all those we tried. I have no idea what the exact cause was/is, but I'd bet it's the new engine's semi-hybrid setup. Again, if one didn't own the previous version they most likely would not notice unless they were the discerning type.
So with all that said, I'd bet the I6 is supersmooth on its own as they inherently are, but the added hybrid components may be causing the lack of refinement (for lack of a better word) you have experienced. It's truly as shame for MB to finally move back to I6's, and other components diminish the utter smoothness they display.
So with all that said, I'd bet the I6 is supersmooth on its own as they inherently are, but the added hybrid components may be causing the lack of refinement (for lack of a better word) you have experienced. It's truly as shame for MB to finally move back to I6's, and other components diminish the utter smoothness they display.
So root cause? No idea, but this is not something reported by any other Audi post I have ever read on the EA839 engine.
That said, the I6 on MB is inherently the smoothest of all, of course, because it's an inline engine.
05-17-2020, 10:49 PM
#63
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Was your Q7 (2020) using the EA839 engine? It's probably one of the smoothest V6s that Audi has ever made. The partial hybrid setup has nothing to do with it as it's a P0 MHEV with a BSG linked via a belt to the ICE which is used to energy recovery when decel or accelerating within a certain band by providing up to 60nm of torque for up to 5 seconds. The mild hybrid components in no way affect the idling behaviour so I find that very strange.
So root cause? No idea, but this is not something reported by any other Audi post I have ever read on the EA839 engine.
That said, the I6 on MB is inherently the smoothest of all, of course, because it's an inline engine.
So root cause? No idea, but this is not something reported by any other Audi post I have ever read on the EA839 engine.
That said, the I6 on MB is inherently the smoothest of all, of course, because it's an inline engine.
Last edited by RJC; 05-17-2020 at 11:17 PM.
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superangrypenguin (05-18-2020)
05-17-2020, 10:55 PM
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I hope it looks better in the flesh but I'm afraid still more of an overgrown E. In addition, that new wiz bang electro dash etc in one version or another will make its way into the lesser models soon enough. Bean counter nirvana.
05-17-2020, 11:03 PM
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18 MB S63, 2022 911 Turbo S, 23 BMW M5C
Super glad I got the 10 year, 100,000 extended warranty on my 2018. It looks like I'll be keeping it till it gets totaled or I die. I'm never selling it now if this is what's next. I assure you, no one looked at our 2018-2020 cars who had an earlier car and said "WTF, it's so weirdly designed and ugly". With the W223, well, hopefully it won't really look like that in person. It just couldn't! I looked at all the Audis and BMW's before buying my S63 and in my minds eye, they didn't even remotely compare in terms of overall look and feel and I really studied the A8, S8 and BMW Alpina B7 & 760Li for many months before pulling the trigger on the MB.
05-17-2020, 11:20 PM
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Super glad I got the 10 year, 100,000 extended warranty on my 2018. It looks like I'll be keeping it till it gets totaled or I die. I'm never selling it now if this is what's next. I assure you, no one looked at our 2018-2020 cars who had an earlier car and said "WTF, it's so weirdly designed and ugly". With the W223, well, hopefully it won't really look like that in person. It just couldn't! I looked at all the Audis and BMW's before buying my S63 and in my minds eye, they didn't even remotely compare in terms of overall look and feel and I really studied the A8, S8 and BMW Alpina B7 & 760Li for many months before pulling the trigger on the MB.
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declo2000 (05-19-2020)
05-18-2020, 07:51 AM
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'22 Alpina B7,'21 G63 Renntech obviously (wife), Wrangler(kids)
Super glad I got the 10 year, 100,000 extended warranty on my 2018. It looks like I'll be keeping it till it gets totaled or I die. I'm never selling it now if this is what's next. I assure you, no one looked at our 2018-2020 cars who had an earlier car and said "WTF, it's so weirdly designed and ugly". With the W223, well, hopefully it won't really look like that in person. It just couldn't! I looked at all the Audis and BMW's before buying my S63 and in my minds eye, they didn't even remotely compare in terms of overall look and feel and I really studied the A8, S8 and BMW Alpina B7 & 760Li for many months before pulling the trigger on the MB.
Not every past generation gained love with time (as some predict with the 2021), W220 never achieved as much desirability as the 221 or 222.
I had 2004 S600 and felt like MB let me down with the quality, when 2007 W221 was introduced it was a sigh of relief.
This new one, will split the camp, some will like it (new tech geeks), traditionalists will hate it.
I'm sure it will drive nicely but with so many plastic screens on the dash it will never feel like a high quality product.
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superangrypenguin (05-18-2020)
05-18-2020, 09:22 AM
#69
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This.
Not every past generation gained love with time (as some predict with the 2021), W220 never achieved as much desirability as the 221 or 222.
I had 2004 S600 and felt like MB let me down with the quality, when 2007 W221 was introduced it was a sigh of relief.
This new one, will split the camp, some will like it (new tech geeks), traditionalists will hate it.
I'm sure it will drive nicely but with so many plastic screens on the dash it will never feel like a high quality product.
Not every past generation gained love with time (as some predict with the 2021), W220 never achieved as much desirability as the 221 or 222.
I had 2004 S600 and felt like MB let me down with the quality, when 2007 W221 was introduced it was a sigh of relief.
This new one, will split the camp, some will like it (new tech geeks), traditionalists will hate it.
I'm sure it will drive nicely but with so many plastic screens on the dash it will never feel like a high quality product.
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mickhoog (05-21-2020)
05-18-2020, 10:04 PM
#73
Junior Member
I'm sure the tech on the W223 will be awesome, but I am thankful I was able to get my 2020 S560 while I was still able. There is no way you can look at the W223 (at least the way depicted in these photos) as "beautiful". As opposed to the W222, which in my view is one of the most "perfect" sedan designs I have ever seen. Love at first sight.
It's also distressing that MB has chosen to go with the "giant slab of flat surface areas" that Audi went to with its current generation A8. I'm not referring to the center console touch screen, but rather what sits in front of the passenger.
On the plus side, I can only imagine what kind of wizardry that apparently huge head-up display is going to perform.
It's also distressing that MB has chosen to go with the "giant slab of flat surface areas" that Audi went to with its current generation A8. I'm not referring to the center console touch screen, but rather what sits in front of the passenger.
On the plus side, I can only imagine what kind of wizardry that apparently huge head-up display is going to perform.
Last edited by Speednet; 05-18-2020 at 10:04 PM. Reason: fixed spacing
05-19-2020, 03:45 AM
#75
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The 7 series LCI looks pretty damn good. Not sure what you are talking about. It's head and shoulders above the pre-LCI. That grille is still smaller than the S-Class one.
The spy pics look like trash. Seriously. I know sometimes spy pics or renderings make it hard to really see what the car will be like in person.....but I can't see the spy pics turning into anything desirable. The last 2 generations have been great cars (and I'm a BMW guy). The current generation does still look new. That being said, the downside of this is it's hard to keep living up to expectations when you have been producing a great S class for 14 years, etc.
All of Mercedes' models are kind of meh now the last few years.....they have dumbed down a lot of models and they all look really basic with the exception of the S class and AMG GT sedan (and even the lower-end variants of the AMG GT look basic).
The spy pics look like trash. Seriously. I know sometimes spy pics or renderings make it hard to really see what the car will be like in person.....but I can't see the spy pics turning into anything desirable. The last 2 generations have been great cars (and I'm a BMW guy). The current generation does still look new. That being said, the downside of this is it's hard to keep living up to expectations when you have been producing a great S class for 14 years, etc.
All of Mercedes' models are kind of meh now the last few years.....they have dumbed down a lot of models and they all look really basic with the exception of the S class and AMG GT sedan (and even the lower-end variants of the AMG GT look basic).
