Streamliner

As part of the some 59 new and 32 used vehicles I have owned, there are 16 new MB and three used. Over the many years, I have watched the ownership experience become highly diluted. It used to be that driving an MB—most ANY MB—was looked upon as something quite special, but that glow really has faded in recent years. Of course, this is not news, but MB has decided to become a purveyor of vehicles to the masses and the folks who I believe have suffered most with this philosophy, are the owners of the top line MB vehicles, such as the S Class. There used to be a “luxury experience,” which I believe has been lost in the shuffle.

The dealer service departments have become overwhelmed. There are so many models in so many variants, with technology that seems to change so rapidly these days, that it is just about impossible for the SA’s and techs, let alone the Service Manager or Shop Foreman to really learn about these extremely sophisticated vehicles, before the next wave of new models comes along. If the car won’t run or if a wheel falls off, they can fix those problems—usually. But if there is a subtle issue, that they can brush off with calling it “within parameters,” they will jump at the chance to shine the customers on and to move to the next customer, who’s windshield fell out of their CLA.

On a recent test drive with the Shop Foreman from MB of Laguna Niguel—who appeared to be about 12 years old—as I was demonstrating an issue I have been having with my nearly new, 2020 S560, I told him “I usually drive in Curve Mode,” to which he replied “what is Curve Mode?” He proceeded to pull my Owner’s Manual from the glove box to look it up as we drove. It appeared to me that this young man had NEVER even heard of Magic Body Control and the line of BS that came out of his mouth, as he tried to tell me that the system was operating “within parameters,” was just laughable—and I must say a bit infuriating, to someone who has probably spent close to a million dollars at that dealership. Anyway, I decided not to leave my car and allow them to “fool” with it. This is about my third disappointment from the MBLN service department and the straw that broke the camel’s back, as I won’t be returning. After threatening to leave for sometime, they finally really lost a long time customer.

I love my S560 and my SL450 and my E450 Wagon. I will, most likely, continue to drive MB vehicles—if I can’t find something better—but to someone who is sensitive about the way their cars drive, it is getting more and more difficult to put up with the ever decreasing level of service at these overwhelmed dealers. I know it won’t happen, but I still say that MB dealerships should be split: A,B & C Class, along with Sprinter & Metris at Mercedes-Benz dealerships, all E Class and above models at Mercedes-Benz LUXURY dealerships.

superpop

The luxury experience is gone, with so many brands. They are all for the most part trying to appeal to the masses. I am a watch guy and the same thing is happening with horology. Rolex used to have a fun buying experience with a bit of a celebration at the AD when you picked up a new piece. Now, because of the market for Rolex, when you walk into an AD and ask for something they just laugh at you and tell you that unless you are spending 100K a year on watches, you cannot get what you want without a considerable wait period. Everyone has turned into a watch reseller all of a sudden. Very few luxury brands still have this special buying experience.

superswiss

Part of the problem is that most dealerships are no longer privately owned. They get bought up by a handful of large companies such as Sonic and these companies buy a mix of dealerships. As for the foreman not knowing the technologies in your car, that's a result of the rampant incompetence in this country. It's hard to find competent people. I haven't owned as many cars as you, but perhaps I've been luckier with my experience. I've so far found competent dealerships in my area for the brands I've owned. The foreman at my current MB dealership for example drives AMGs, so he was totally on the ball when I demonstrated an issue I had and he even pointed stuff out I hadn't even noticed yet. I must also say I sense some snobbery in your breakup comment. Might I point out that a fully loaded C63S coupe costs more than a base S 450? So just because someone drives an S Class doesn't mean they spent more money than someone with a C Class. Having paid over a $100k cash for my fully loaded '19 C63S coupe, I'd be insulted if somebody who leases a $60k 4-banger E350 gets better treatment just because it's an E Class. BTW, Service A and B cost more on an AMG than they do on a regular Mercedes-Benz, regardless of the class.

Streamliner

My suggestion in splitting dealerships is obviously a very broad and unrefined one, but I think splitting by classes is way better than going by MSRP. If I could make the decisions, I would split AMG off all by itself anyway and sell it under the AMG brand name, with all vehicles being unique AMG models, like the AMG GT. I’d staff it with people who know AMG models inside & out and go head to head with Porsche, Ferrari, etc. The bottom line is that the MB line, especially when you throw AMG, Sprinter and Metris into the mix, is a behemoth, and it needs to be split up. The way MB currently is, is as if many years ago, GM had only GM dealerships and that everyone of them sold Chevrolet, Pontiac, Oldsmobile, Buick, Cadillac, GMC Trucks, etc. The MB line of vehicles has gotten too big for their existing dealerships and it is the customers who are suffering. MB dealerships need to be split up. You heard it here first!

SW20S

Ive been happy with my limited experience with my Mercedes dealer, but what you described is what I experienced with Lexus from 1998 to 2020, the Lexus experience of 2020 is almost nothing like the experience of 1998. The shop foreman not knowing what MBC or Curve mode is, thats just unacceptable. How can he be the shop FOREMAN?!?

Really what you have to do is just try a bunch of dealers until you find one and a service consultant that is acceptable. My neighbor has driven Mercedes for years and she told me to ask for a specific advisor and a specific tech and tell them she sent me, and that seemed to help.

Wolfman

While I agree with Streamliners assessment of a drop is quality in service (and sales) which has accelerated, especially during COVID I don't see the model lineup to be the issue. I understand people love to berate MB for having the lowly A-Class in the lineup, that is what Mercedes is and has been for many decades; offering anything from entry level (remember the 190's) to luxury. In Europe, the luxury models make up a tiny fraction of sales and A, C, E Class models and their SUV siblings GLA, GLB, GLC, GLE are the bread and butter of the company.

The biggest issue for me is incompetence, lack of knowledge and not giving a damn. Maybe this is accelerated by faster model refreshes and pace of technology or maybe it has become socially acceptable to not strive for top performance.

I do like a separation of AMG as there are unique aspects to the brand but the reality is that its just too expensive to do this anyplace but the largest markets...

Streamliner

Well, I’ve always thought that if I stayed loyal to a dealer, that they would be there for me when I needed them. It had worked well, for many years. I had the same SA every visit, I made appointments with him, it all worked. But about two years ago, I noticed that it just seemed to be changing and I was being told “no,” way more than “yes.” When I found that MB was no longer going to import the Luxury version of the E450 Wagon, I quickly snapped up a perfect, used one I found at a BMW dealer. When I took it to MBLN for a warranty issue, they treated me like I had brought the car in with a rabid dog growling in the back seat.

Talking about Lexus, I had eight, new, top line LS sedans between 1993 and 2011. When I saw them going to their idiotic “spindle grille,” I moved to MB for my daily driver and have not looked back. The dealer service experience at Lexus Westminster was “THE” best I have ever seen. Head and shoulders over any MB dealer I have been to. But, the powers that be at Lexus lost their minds, IMO, with their truly hideous designs. The LS no longer rides the way they used to, no more V8, I don’t like them anymore and I used to absolutely LOVE them. I tell folks that I didn’t leave Lexus, Lexus left me.

SW20S

I've always been the same way. Did your dealer change management and all? Sometimes you just have to move on. What I did one time when I switched Lexus dealers is I called the GM and told him what a longtime customer I was and how I felt about what had been changing at my old dealer and how I wanted to build a relationship with them and a SA and if he could set me up with their best one, and he did and that was a great relationship for a long time. Might be worth a shot for you to do that with a new MB dealer.

I also did find that my dealer notes on my file that I have an S Class, and when handing me over to the guy who does the loaners they mentioned "he has an S Class", so I dunno if they have some different way of handling S Class customers or not.

For Lexus, the spindle grille doesnt bother me as much as the cars being tighter and firmer riding, losing the V8, losing all the higher end cars all the development seems to be low end FWD derived cars etc. Supposedly they did soften up the 2021 refresh LS500, but that doesnt help the tight interior or lack of a V8. I feel the same way that Lexus left me.

Streamliner

Here in the greater LaLa Land of Southern California, I’m sure the problems, as I see them, are more pronounced than in smaller markets. But just think of a relatively modern MB dealer that was one of the higher volume dealers, doing a bustling service business. Then, without really expanding their service facilities, bring in all the latest classes, not to mention the onslaught of SUV’s in all classes and the exploding AMG line. Getting a bit crowded in the service paddock, right? NOW, bring in these WHALE size Sprinters and their crummy, little sibling Metris’ into the service lines and perhaps you can visualize what I am talking about. It’s a frigging ZOO! Perhaps in markets like the one I am in, splitting the dealerships might work.

My other choice is Fletcher Jones. The service manager has boasted on how much they pay their techs to attract and retain only the best, with the most experience. However, if MBLN is a ZOO, FJMC is frigging DISNEYLAND! But, they really are my last hope, so I will give them a try.

Streamliner

Well, you and I will have to agree to disagree on this.

SW20S

I think it totally depends on the model. That RX is hideous, but the refresh RX is better looking, and I actually like the looks of the LS500.

as.thompson

Streamliner, When I have had the rare occasional issue with one of my cars, I have always had good results by raising my concern with the Service Manager and/or the General Manager. I guess that you tried that with them and they were non-responsive to your concerns?

Streamliner

Yes, I have. I’ve contacted Pat Boltar, the long time GM, but he was non responsive to my last two attempts to contact him. The SM, who again, appears to be rather new on the job, was the one who pretty much told me to pound salt on my 2019 E450 Wagon issue. I guess they have just come to the conclusion that I’m an old guy, who doesn’t have that many new car purchases ahead of him, so why bother? It really is disheartening. Oh well.

On a positive note and just for fun, here’s a photo of Mighty Mouse. It was a beautiful, sunny day here today, without a cloud in the sky. With a temp of 69 degrees, I took MM out for a spin. There are many positive aspects to these cars as well.



l

superswiss

You are taking the words out of my mouth. I've long criticized Daimlers decision to rope AMG under Mercedes-Benz as a sub brand. Same for Maybach. AMG is dying a slow death IMO, because they get roped in with Daimler as a whole when it comes to emissions due to the overall volume of cars Daimler sells and it's ruining their cars. I mean the next C63 is gonna be a 4-cylinder hybrid! Lower volume brands have less restrictive emissions rules they have to adhere, that's why Ferrari for example can still make V12 cars. Now they do seem to be thinking about restructering. Daimler is actually no longer. They split of their truck business and Daimler is being renamed to Mercedes-Benz, so Mercedes-Benz is now the overall brand instead of the passenger car brand it was before. I reallly wish they would take it further and split off AMG and Maybach as well.

Streamliner

AND, put the S Class and SL models under the Maybach umbrella as well. That would be SENSATIONAL!

I like the Maybach idea, I just don’t want an extended length sedan. If I could get a regular, USA length W223, but with the ability for a reasonable amount of customization, ala Bentley—but better—along with a true luxurious dealer and servicing experience, SIGN ME UP!

E55Greasemonkey

What if I told you the E-class is nothing more than a stretched wheelbase c-class with big fenders and a different interior? Otherwise, you are spot on about the Mercedes brand no longer being exclusive along with the dealership experience sinking to the lowest common denominator. Also keep in mind, the old techs are leaving the dealership en masse, and being replaced by UTI (Universal technical Institute) "trainees" who have the privilege of a $40k loan to pay back and little skill. They are "millennials" and grew up with touch screens. They never took things apart or fixed them with their hands or minds, and it shows in the dealership's service center. Mercedes doesn't care about the technicians any more than most dealerships do, either. The industry is stuck with an obsolete "flat rate" pay plan amongst other things that just don't work anymore on today's modern vehicles, which are basically cell phones with wheels.

superswiss

Or at least create some kind of a brand center in select dealerships. I just remembered that for AMG, they have the so-called AMG Performance Centers. These are dealerships that have an entire area dedicated to AMG and have brand specialist on site that know far more than their regular staff. These are far and few in between. There's only one here in NorCal. I ended up ordering my car from another dealership that doesn't have an AMG Performance Center, but they are the highest selling dealership in the area, so they have more pull with corporate. This doesn't necessarily extend to the service department, but I have to say that I get treated very well whenever I pull up. Everybody ogles over my car, including other customers dropping of theirs. It has quite a presence with the aero package. The service manager came out and personally assured me that they will take good care of my car and to contact him directly if there are ever any concerns. That's with my first car I ever bought from them. My SA also goes above and beyond and apologizes every time about the fact that they don't have AMG loaners and I end up having to drive a ****ty SUV usually.

superangrypenguin

I've noticed this as well. RR and Bentley are the 'real' luxury brands. Mercedes/Audi/BMW are no longer them.

MTrauman

See attached for what it is worth on Daimler's refocusing plan.

Streamliner

So many vehicles today are a stretched this or that. I’ve owned many high line cars over my years and I must say that whatever MB stretched, squeezed, massaged or stroked, to build the W213 E450 Wagons, they performed MAGIC! My 2019 with Air Body Control, Acoustic Comfort and Designo interior, is one of the best driving, most comfortable, most enjoyable vehicles I have ever driven. Of course, since it was such a magnificent vehicle, MBUSA decided to no longer import them. In their brilliance, they have decided that we mere peons in the US should only be able to get their ridiculous and ugly All Terrain Wagon. Figures.

DaveW68

You guys are funny with your idea that MB should split up their models into different dealerships. That isn't ever going to happen as it wouldn't be financially feasible for them or any car maker to do such a thing. Cars are going the way of the dodo bird as everything has been going toward high profit trucks and SUV's. Be happy that you are still able to purchase a high end luxury "car" as they likely aren't going to be around for too many more years. I mean, Ford, the first mainstream car maker in the world, now only builds ONE car for the US consumer market....the Mustang. Everything else is now trucks and SUV's. GM and Chrysler/Dodge seems to be right on their coattails.

I used to have a fantastic experience with the several Lexus' I owned over the years. But I did see that experience diminish into the mid 2000's and I finally gave up on them. My experience with Benz has been nearly as good as what I had with Lexus when they were really good. My SA has been with Benz for over 30 years and is always quick to answer any questions and take good care of me. I'm sure it's hit or miss depend on the dealership and SA you work with because of the human and cost element of each dealer.

MBS63AMG

These problems you mention, Streamliner, are really going to prop up the concept of leasing these cars instead of outright buying them because the risk of not having real mechanics with real world experience to work on them. Our medical field may suffer the same fate. Independent MB-certified shops have a big vacuum to fill and this could turn into a big money maker if the independent shops could pick up where the dealerships fail. I have an independent shop that does far better work on my Benzes than the dealerships and they charge less! They aren't overwhelmed, they don't have waterfall decor in the waiting room, they don't serve Edgar bakery foods in the waiting area, but they deliver predictable and conscious service that I can rely on.

superswiss

It's not as impossible. Fiat spun off Ferrari again to give it more freedom for what they can build and Fiat also buys credits from Tesla to offset their ICE fleet. That's actually how Tesla even makes a profit. They still lose tons of money on every car they sell, but they make about $3 billion in profit from selling these credits to companies like Fiat. Yes, the SUV/Truck trend is another story and absolutely head scratching, but apparently the masses think a jacked up minivan/wagon with an idiotic high center of gravity is a good thing. Most of them never take it anywhere where that high center of gravity would be an advantage. The whole landscape is politized and I think there will be a reckoning at one point with the policies that are being put in place. I think the environmental can is just being pushed down the road and the current problems are being converted to new problems, but none of us has much control over it individually.

Barry Jones

Here in the UK, it isn't much better... I have owned a few S Class sedans up to now, including a short wheelbased W220, a long wheelbase W220, a 2006 W221, a 2010 W221 and my current 2016 W222...

Yes, the dealerships have become more under pressure with all the variants, however, my local dealerships, although part of large national chains, have always been good.

What I have noticed are the little touches that were once standard, are now either a cost option or not available at all. on the 2006 W221, for example, I had little hooks in the trunk for holding shopping bags. by 2010, it was down to only one, and now, none at all. No umbrella holder in the boot, no carpetting on the underside of the parcel shelf in the trunk. Keyless entry and keyless go has been standard across most S Class models here in the UK for a long while, until the W222... mine now has keyless start, but not keyless entry, the first S Class I have ever owned where I had to point a key at it and press a button to get it to open! and the trunk closure button is now an option, whereas every other car it was standard.

My 2016 is far from a basic model, it has comfort massage seats front and rear, trailer hitch, refrigerator, digital TV....etc

MB just seem to have lost their ability to put the finishing touches to their top of the range cars, the owners of which, wouldn't mind paying a few extra pounds for these things, especially when the cars start at £60-70,000

DaveW68

You're talking about mergers and acquisitions here. That kind of stuff has happened a lot over the last 20 years. Heck, even MB got themselves roped into one for a while with Chrysler of all companies. I seem to remember that it worked out OK for Chrysler as some of their products improved quite a bit (think E-class based LX series 300's, Chargers, Magnums, & Challengers and the SLK based Crossfire) while MB really got nothing out of the deal except a much lighter bank account. And now Chrysler is owned by Fiat as they can't seem to stand on their own financially and still build some pretty crappy cars and small SUV's while Fiat does the same. And then you had Ford taking a big ownership stake in Volvo, Aston Martin, and Jaguar arguably greatly improving the quality and reliability of those makes before they needed to be bailed out by the American taxpayers along with Chrysler and GM who also had ownership in European makes like the now defunct Saab. But one thing that hasn't happened in the last 20 years is any of the companies splitting their line of cars between high and low-end models except for maybe Scion, which didn't last. If anything, some have killed off marques like GM did with Oldsmobile, Pontiac, & Saturn, Ford with Mercury, Chrysler with Plymouth, and Toyota with Scion. Hyundai now has their Genesis line of highline cars, but even they won't put together a separate dealership network for those cars.

So yes, it's pretty much impossible in this era where auto makers are trying to maximize profits, not lose money by opening stores with separate sub-brands and highline cars.


Not really head-scratching. SUV's have been a very hot trend again since gas prices got more reasonable. The public is under the impression that they are safer choices than cars and give a more commanding view of the road while offering better traction in inclement weather. I think the Millennial generation has been driving this trend as they think they make good family cars. And now with smaller and more efficient turbo-charged engines being the norm, they are being future proofed against a future rise in gas prices. Auto makers absolutely will push this as far and long as they can as they are highly profitable. I'm certainly no fan of this green push to get rid of the internal combustion engine and going all electric. The whole thing is insane and stupid and the reason why Tesla is the only company that can seem to sell any of them. GM wants to have 30 electric vehicles on the market by 2025 and be 100% electric by 2035. My guess is that if they keep pursuing this ridiculous plan, they will be coming to Congress again looking for another bailout as most people won't want them.