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As I understand it—and please correct me if I am wrong—his was a 7 speed transmission and the tech was working with an updated software that was installed. I do not believe that there is a software update for the 9 speed yet. That said, I will show the pertinent details of that thread to the dealer. Thanks for the suggestion. I STILL want to know why most MB’s shift perfectly and some don’t. If everything is the same, it doesn’t make sense.
Yes he has a 7 speed and you have a 9 speed. In his case the tech (insightfully) fiddled with the adaptations until the transmission performed satisfactorily. IE he did a custom adaptation for that car. The point being made is that the factory adaptability didn't cover the seven speed / 4.7 engine combination variation. Not clear that a custom tune will or won't fix your car's 9 speed / 4.0 engine shifting but it would be worth exploring. I agree that you should stay the course until MB fixes your car. Also would like to hear Wolfman's take on this.
Yes he has a 7 speed and you have a 9 speed. In his case the tech (insightfully) fiddled with the adaptations until the transmission performed satisfactorily. IE he did a custom adaptation for that car. The point being made is that the factory adaptability didn't cover the seven speed / 4.7 engine combination variation. Not clear that a custom tune will or won't fix your car's 9 speed / 4.0 engine shifting but it would be worth exploring. I agree that you should stay the course until MB fixes your car. Also would like to hear Wolfman's take on this.
iIm kinda shocked that Benz just went ahead and replaced the trans when it’s obviously a software adaptation issue. The right tech that knows what he is doing should be able to fix this issue.
Yes he has a 7 speed and you have a 9 speed. In his case the tech (insightfully) fiddled with the adaptations until the transmission performed satisfactorily. IE he did a custom adaptation for that car. The point being made is that the factory adaptability didn't cover the seven speed / 4.7 engine combination variation. Not clear that a custom tune will or won't fix your car's 9 speed / 4.0 engine shifting but it would be worth exploring. I agree that you should stay the course until MB fixes your car. Also would like to hear Wolfman's take on this.
100% description of what actually happened ("the tech (insightfully) fiddled with the adaptations until the transmission performed satisfactorily").
It's only a matter of really finding the right tech working for that dealer who knows how to do all this (my experience changing 3 dealers tell me that not every dealer has a tech who even understands how to perform this).
The thing is that the car is certified with the production adaptation software that the car is shipped with. The mechanic fiddling with it like other custom tunes could potentially violate the EPA certifications which why I suspect they don't sent out fiddle with it instructions. This would most assuredly be the case in the industry that I retired from.
The thing is that the car is certified with the production adaptation software that the car is shipped with. The mechanic fiddling with it like other custom tunes could potentially violate the EPA certifications which why I suspect they don't sent out fiddle with it instructions. This would most assuredly be the case in the industry that I retired from.
This is probably one of the most convincing explanations I ever heard yet. During one of my calls from last year with MB Corporate, they did mention to me that a software is being written (and has been written for 3 years), but a combination of maintaining emissions readings vs smooth operation is causing a delays in official release. I would very will believe that the fix would impact the claimed emissions readings, and for that they chose to continue producing cars with potential rough shifting, instead of risking EPA related readings. Huge disappointment on my end by all those who were involved in the development of transmissions over the past 8-10 years. There are a number of claims on many other car models of similar rough shifting and this is something that MB must have addressed long time ago, yet it is 2021 already and no official actions by MB yet (come on! just hire top notch engineers from BMW or other companies and give it a try!)!
This is probably one of the most convincing explanations I ever heard yet. During one of my calls from last year with MB Corporate, they did mention to me that a software is being written (and has been written for 3 years), but a combination of maintain emissions readings vs smooth operation is causing a delays in official release. I would very will believe that the fix would impact the claimed emissions readings, and for that they chose to continue producing cars with potential rough shifting, instead of risking EPA related readings. Huge disappointment on my end by all those who were involved in the development of transmissions over the past 8-10 years. There are a number of claims on many other car models of similar rough shifting and this is something that MB must have addressed long time ago, yet it is 2021 already and no official actions by MB yet (come on! just hire top notch engineers from BMW or other companies and give it a try!)!
If you think that these transmissions shift rough, then you've likely not driven most Honda models from 1990 until at least 2010....especially the Odyssey and Accord. Our transmissions are buttery smooth compared to those.
2020 S560 Sedan, 2019 SL450, 2019 E450 Luxury Trim Wagon, '24 BMW I7 on order...
Originally Posted by Benzo-matic
If you think that these transmissions shift rough, then you've likely not driven most Honda models from 1990 until at least 2010....especially the Odyssey and Accord. Our transmissions are buttery smooth compared to those.
I don’t wish to compare a $100K++ S Class with a Honda. I wish to compare my rough shifting 2020 S560, with my perfectly smooth shifting 2018 S560. If the 2018 shifted perfectly, why can’t my 2020?
I don’t wish to compare a $100K++ S Class with a Honda. I wish to compare my rough shifting 2020 S560, with my perfectly smooth shifting 2018 S560. If the 2018 shifted perfectly, why can’t my 2020?
Oh....I definitely understand. What I really miss is the buttery smoothness from the 5 speed in my old S600. I don't think Benz has ever built a more stout and buttery smooth trans than that one. Plus that one could handle up to 1000 lb ft of torque. If they could have just carried over that trans with the extra 2 gears (for fuel efficiency), car driving life would be bliss. I really think anything over 7 gears is complete overkill.
Our 9G-Tronic's have been flawless so I am really puzzled by the behavior and MB's approach to replacement. These transmissions are rather common too so issues would normally be wide-spread among MB owners. Very sorry to hear to say the least.
The first thing I would try is to force a change in shift pattern (for a day or two) just to get a feel if the behavior is hardware or software related . More aggressive acceleration/deceleration, shifting in Sport/Sport Plus, switching to Comfort and do the same. Staying out of Curve mode as that is the cars most relaxed mode. Are the downshifts the same or is there any change.
You would think 9 speeds would be easier to get smooth shifts from than a 5 speed.
Nope....number of gears has nothing to do with the way a transmission shifts. If your car shifts gears hard and it has more gears, it's only going to annoy the person more who is sensitive to it.
stream 'ol boy - wtf? we got our 560s delivered at about the same time together last autumn - and i recall how chuffed you were to get it!! so sorry to read of your trans woes; that ain't right, mate. as you say - how can mine be silky smooth and yours is a train-wreck? esp. with our delivery dates being so similar. so odd. let's compare build dates; i'll take a look next time i'm in the garage.
2020 S560 Sedan, 2019 SL450, 2019 E450 Luxury Trim Wagon, '24 BMW I7 on order...
Originally Posted by S_W222
@Streamliner any updates ? How is it going? Hope everything is resolved now!
No, not resolved. MBUSA has offered to “buy back” my car. However, if that took place now, I would be without a daily driver, since MB is unable to provide me with a replacement W222 or W223. I have placed an order for a 2022 S580 and am waiting to hear from MBUSA as to how I should proceed.
I took my S550e into the shop finally yesterday, the service writer said he never heard of anything with these transmissions. I was thinking maybe this will go away, I tried pushing the car super hard for a few drives hoping the car will think that I want to drive it like a sports car, but just when I hadn't had this happen I was getting off the freeway and again though someone had rear-ended me! I was a little confused when the writer who is a good guy told me "never heard of any issues with these". I told him there is a lot on-line with this and he wasn't too interested in that story.
This reminds me of the early days of the Infiniti Q45 which had poorly designed timing chain guides that were made of plastic. My dad owned a 91' and I told his friend who owned an Infiniti dealership to replace them when he was still under extended warranty. He told me this was a wives tale, the car made it to 90k and dad sold it to a friend. 3 days later the time chain exploded and my dad being a good guy gave him his money back and junked the car.
Sooooo, got the car back from the dealer today, of course they were not able to reproduce. They reset everything to make me happy but I finally cornered the service writer and he actually lurked on the web and saw that I wasn't smoking crack...then he spoke to the tech and the tech totally knows about the tranny problems. the tech told him my car is one of the best S class he's driven in a while and some 2018-20 he's driven had that same "I just got rear-ended" effect. i agreed with the service writer that this is documented with MB and that I still have 2 more years on my warranty.
2020 S560 Sedan, 2019 SL450, 2019 E450 Luxury Trim Wagon, '24 BMW I7 on order...
I thought that I would update this thread, since I’m the one who started it. My car still has a rough 3-2 downshift and MBUSA has offered to buy the car back. I have a 2022 S580 on order, but with a few reports of rough shifting transmissions in 2021 S580’s, it would appear that the boys across the pond have still not exorcised the gremlins that plague some of their transmissions. With the rough shifting aside, I love my 2020 S560. I ordered the car, just the way I wanted it, with most options and being one of the last W222’s produced, I got a sensational deal on the car. So, at least for the time being, I’m going to keep it. There is really nothing out there that I want instead and I’d probably have to pay a big premium just to make the switch, which I refuse to do. When the 2022 arrives, probably around December, we shall see what happens. Maybe I’ll go for it, but probably not, especially if there is no great deal to be had.
My goodness how many of these horror stories have to occur before MB gets it together when it comes to gearboxes.
I had major rough shifting in my new at the time 16 S550 coupe and they took the megatonic apart, replaced parts, did the manual adaptation etc etc and when I drove it home it felt like the driveline seized it shifted so harshly. I bought a new 2017 S550 coupe with the 9G which shifted flawlessly but when they redesigned the awd for the 9G application (new transfer case etc) it causes a vibration in the steering wheel and seat at idle when stoped in gear, which completely ruined the experience, as my 16 with the rough shifting 7G was dead smooth at idle and you couldn’t even tell the engine was running. Sold the 2017 S and bought a new at the time 19 BMW M850XI coupe which is a joy to drive and rides like a dream as I got the track package which comes with non-run flat Michelin pilots. The engine in the M850’s are also monsters with a significantly underrated 523hp (they have been dynoed 100% bone stock at ~600hp) which also runs like a Swiss timepiece it’s so smooth.
MB needs to stop building their own gearboxes and use ZF as they are simply superb; problem solved.
I bet all of these shifting issues can be pinpointed to the torque converter, and are not likely transmission related. TC's of old just functioned on trans fluid pressure to control stall speeds & lockup points and usually produced very fluid shifts. But now with strict EPA guidelines, they've made that stuff electrical and the shifting is not as smooth as it used to be.
My goodness how many of these horror stories have to occur before MB gets it together when it comes to gearboxes.
I had major rough shifting in my new at the time 16 S550 coupe and they took the megatonic apart, replaced parts, did the manual adaptation etc etc and when I drove it home it felt like the driveline seized it shifted so harshly. I bought a new 2017 S550 coupe with the 9G which shifted flawlessly but when they redesigned the awd for the 9G application (new transfer case etc) it causes a vibration in the steering wheel and seat at idle when stoped in gear, which completely ruined the experience, as my 16 with the rough shifting 7G was dead smooth at idle and you couldn’t even tell the engine was running. Sold the 2017 S and bought a new at the time 19 BMW M850XI coupe which is a joy to drive and rides like a dream as I got the track package which comes with non-run flat Michelin pilots. The engine in the M850’s are also monsters with a significantly underrated 523hp (they have been dynoed 100% bone stock at ~600hp) which also runs like a Swiss timepiece it’s so smooth.
MB needs to stop building their own gearboxes and use ZF as they are simply superb; problem solved.
Agree. MB has no idea what they are doing in transmissions, in comparison to today’s state of the art. MB should sell their transmission operations as they have sold other pieces of their components businesses.
Aisin and ZF should be the only two transmission suppliers in the world in my view. All others pale in comparison to them as it relates to shift quality and reliability.
Maybe throw Jatco into the ring as a stool pigeon to keep ZF and Aisin honest in the bidding process for new business.
Agree. MB has no idea what they are doing in transmissions, in comparison to today’s state of the art. MB should sell their transmission operations as they have sold other pieces of their components businesses.
Aisin and ZF should be the only two transmission suppliers in the world in my view. All others pale in comparison to them as it relates to shift quality and reliability.
Maybe throw Jatco into the ring as a stool pigeon to keep ZF and Aisin honest in the bidding process for new business.
Jatco to keep them honest... My god if Streamliner drove a Nissan with that Jatco he'd be singing the praises of the 9g rough downshift and all.
Originally Posted by chassis
Agree. MB has no idea what they are doing in transmissions, in comparison to today’s state of the art. MB should sell their transmission operations as they have sold other pieces of their components businesses.
Aisin and ZF should be the only two transmission suppliers in the world in my view. All others pale in comparison to them as it relates to shift quality and reliability.
Maybe throw Jatco into the ring as a stool pigeon to keep ZF and Aisin honest in the bidding process for new business.
My 2014 GL 350 BLUETEC also had a rough downshift into second gear and my 2020 S560 4MATIC does the same thing.
I have notified the dealer and they tried a "software update" but of course it didn't work.
All of our BMW vehicles (cars, SUVs) have superior transmissions compared to our Mecedes vehicles, smooth shifting and just non problematic.
It kind of astounds me that Mercedes engineering is so inferior in this aspect but the rest of the car is so satisfactory (almost perfect) that I have just accepted it.
I hate taking my car for service as it is always disappointing, something always gets screwed up, so I am not inclined to pursue a fix for the rough 3-2 downshift.
YMMV
Last edited by Todd in PA; 09-18-2021 at 04:37 PM.
2020 S560 Sedan, 2019 SL450, 2019 E450 Luxury Trim Wagon, '24 BMW I7 on order...
If they spent more time perfecting their transmissions and less time trying to get yet another class of an SUV “coupe” to market, or to market yet another shade of some Magno gray color, or how to find even more room for touchscreens, they might get somewhere. It’s a matter of priorities and fixing their crummy transmissions doesn’t seem to be very high on their “to do” list.
Driveline components. In the early-2000s during the Schrempp-Zetsche days. MTU/EQT/Tognum/Rotorion, fairly complex with multiple business entities transacted.
05-21-2021, 12:37 PM
? How is it going? Hope everything is resolved now!
